I hunted an area back-to-back years, during essentially the same time period. The first year, the elk were very vocal and would readily respond to calls and we even called in a number of bulls. Fast forward to the next year, it's hot and dry and the elk aren't talking. We'd cover ground and throw out a locate bugle every so often (nothing excessive and never more than 2 bugles over the course of a couple minutes before moving on) and would occasionally get a far off, weak response. Most times it was hard to pin point with only one bugle and after moving in on what we thought would be close, we'd try one more call and never get a response.
The first year we would get in as close as we could to a bugling bull and start bugling at him, then start raking, picking up the intensity and start cutting him off with screams. We had good success with this and killed two bulls. The next year was nothing like the year prior, never seems to work that way! But nothing worked, nothing.
In a place where there is expansive timber with water high and low, feed everywhere and unlimited potential bedding areas... What the hell do you do? The elk were there, but how do you find them if they aren't talking? Or do you? Glassing isn't really an option and the elk rarely seem to come into the openings during day light hours anyway, from what I've seen.
This year I drew my Wyoming tag again and heading back solo for hopefully 12 days. But while I've hunted the first half of September, I'm going the second half with hopes of cooler, wetter weather and more vocal elk.
So thoughts on hunting elk that are silent in heavily timbered country?
Fortunately, I've bowhunted my area since 1985. Even when they're silent, I know where they're most likely to be. I'll concentrate my efforts close to wallows that are being used, as well as slowly sneaking through areas where I find fresh sign. Even though they aren't talking, I'll still occasionally mew. I'll also wait in ambush in small saddles I know they like. In that case, I don't make a sound.
My ace in the hole is my treestand. It's in an awesome place. I know if I'm patient enough and sit it every evening, eventually elk will come through. When in my stand, I'll throw out a small series of cow/calf mews every few minutes.
This is what's worked for me when the elk are silent, and unfortunately, since I hunt a heavily hunted general area, silent elk are more the rule rather than the exception.
You might also try approaching the area differently. I was in a heavily hunted area a couple years ago and found some fresh sign on a ridge but the elk seemed to be dead quiet. On the other side of the ridge was a frequently used ATV trail. I was surprised to find such good sign about 200 yards from the ATVs. I used the ATV trail to initially access the area (on foot) for scouting but I didn't like the wind direction. For my hunt I took a totally different and much more difficult route to approach the area. It was an evening hunt and the previously quiet woods were surprisingly filled with elk mews and a few bugles too.
Then just after sunset I heard a hunter bugle from the ATV trail and everything went quiet. He was a pretty good caller but the location gave it away to me. The hunter bugled as he went along the trail and the response was silence. Once he was gone I let out a little mew and the elk started talking again. My take on that was that even though the caller was pretty decent, the elk had figured out that calls from that direction were people. To that hunter, the elk were quiet and not responding; for me it was the opposite. And we were on the same ridge, at the same time on the same day. And it sure wasn't because I was a better caller. He just came in from a direction that said I'm people and I came in from a direction that said I'm elk.
Another option is to get out there at night to locate them. They seem to be most talkative in the dark so if they just refuse to talk during the day that may be your best opportunity to hear them.
Most of the time, when there's hunting pressure, you are lucky to hear one or two bugles just at dawn in those areas. And those elk are already moving up into the dark timber. It's a real challenge to be in a position to intercept them, before the wind gets unpredictable.
If you're after them for a number of days, chances are you'll catch them in a little bugling frenzy at some point. That's when it gets easier.
Sometimes, the only thing I can do, is hunt more, and sleep less.
Best of Luck, Jeff
Generally, I look for fresh sign concentration. Currently used elk trails. Rutting areas. Then I look for natural funnels. Saddles. Small creek drainages. Wallows. Then I look for feed and shelter and start figuring out the wind and likely approach routes and set up ambush sites.
I have had alot of luck finding elk and having chances (not so much luck executing on the chances) using these tactics. Rarely do I not find and encounter elk using these methods.
Of course, the best laid plans........more times than I can count the elk have come from downwind or some totally unexpected direction which leads to my hesitation and lack of execution.
LOL
I have also had luck calling in elk but more often it is the above that leads to success more than calling.
Where I hunt now it's dense timber with pocket meadows that aren't glassable. The elk density is low and the bull-cow ratio is high. Bulls often rarely bugle in daylight, and where I get answers to locator bugles at night may be a long way from where they are at daylight.
The upside is that the age-class of bulls is higher than any units outside the " big five" high point units, so there are big public land bulls. As the biologist told me (he also bowhunts this area), "Even the little bulls are big". In my third season of connecting the dots I'm now finally getting a handle on how to consistently hunt them in several different drainages instead of just plunging into the woods and burning shoe leather.
We love running & gunning elk but in the first 7-10 days of Sept there are better methods to consider in many instances when there's little to no bugling action going on!
The Breeding Sequence is unique! As the rut nears, (pre-rut) bulls in a given area are getting amped up, they will travel the same trails cow groups are traveling scent checking them for cows coming into estrus, this is done through cows dripping or urinating on these trails, water holes, bedding areas, etc. These trails & destination spots in themselves can be great spots for a treestand or ambush as these non herd bulls can seek out these cow groups in search of hot cows on a daily basis.For me elk trails on benches on semi steep terrain are the best spots because the wind is more predictable!
The Breeding Sequence is a method every hunter should know & when to use it! We have called in countless elk with this method, most are bulls! That's the cool thing with this sequence it has a much higher ratio of drawing bulls in over cows & spikes! If you prefer cows & spikes use a cold calling setup while rustling brush & ground cover with cow chatter being the dominant sounds used. This sequence can be deadly on both Quiet elk or Bugling elk. You need to tailor it to the days hunt & the mood of the elk. We're not World Champion elk callers & you don't need to be either but the sounds suggested are right on par with elk that are some what lethargic during pre-rut or when no cows are in estrus. These sounds flat attract elk!
However, the Breeding Sequence is not just a couple bugles tossed out here & there as a Cold Calling Sequence, it's not running & gunning, it's high energy calling & setups from one spot, the elk come to you. Bulls will bugle for various reasons, this sequence raises curiosity in other elk to come check out a breeding situation because of the high energy bull sounds. It's also one of my favorite ways to draw in semi quiet to quiet bulls! One or two bugles by the real bull & you close the distance to 150 yards to 300 yards or so & setup to start this sequence!
When a cow shows signs of coming into estrus the herd bull can become very vocal, at this time of courtship a bull tries to keep his hot cow close by whether in transition to bedding & feeding or in the feeding & bedding areas themselves, he does this through specific bugling such as lip bawls, glunking, pants & chuckling, this is another way the satellites in the area are alerted to these herds with hot cows. The cow/calves in a group can chatter it up as well so injecting a variety of cow sounds at varying volumes can add realism. They listen for this sound sequence in addition to checking trails for that testosterone driving smell. This bugling can be heard at long distances & it draws satellites their way. -- This sequence is a Satellite killer! Nothing wrong with a satellite bull on OTC DIY elk hunts!
From our experience with this method bulls show first over cow groups, bulls can come storming in or as quiet as a church mouse so keep your ears honed & your head on a very slow moving swivel as you patiently scan the area for sounds such as a stick breaking or unusual rustling of debris or any visual movement as these other elk show to this uninvited party.
Nice thing about this method is we the caller can adjust our volume & intensity of the calling to fit our needs for the day & those more heavily hunted areas!
ElkNut1
Another night, I got into a spot where a bunch of elk came into the creek bottom where there was some sage, grass and willows. It was very open with the exception of the low willows. There were 5 bulls that were 5 pt or better with some small raghorns and a bunch of cows. Basically a bunch of small groups that all came together. There was some bugling but nothing serious and the elk didn't seem to care at all that the other bulls were around. One bull tore up a willow bush at one point. I dropped into the creek and pushed up through the water as that was my only way to get low enough for cover. Just couldn't get close enough as they moved out of range just ahead of me. Didn't even attempt to call. Seemed strange though that these elk were so tolerant of eachother in September?
Aspen Ghost... Those are some good thoughts. Sometimes we always look for the easiest way to get into a spot and in the end, that's the most likely of places for a person to call from. So that's good advice!
The hunting pressure hasn't been too bad, in places. Everything is up from the road and sometimes, it's a long climb. It takes work to get back into most areas and in some cases the elk have been awesome, vocally. Had some great setups and call-ins. It's just this last year that threw me for a loop, we couldn't do anything right.
Jaquomo... I spend an enormous time looking at my topos and google earth. Looking for ways into areas, looking for likely areas the elk may bed. It seems overwhelming a lot of times as there's so much country and so many possibilities for those things. Now that I'm thinking about it maybe I need to focus in on just a few spots vs 7-10? This is how I've been hunting the area...
I'll road camp and hunt in different directions from there. Some of my spots will be as far as 15 miles away driving. I'll head into a spot in the morning and hunt and depending what I find, I may spend all day there or bail and hit another area. The next day I'll plan based on what I found the day prior. If nothing then I'll head somewhere I had success finding elk before or try maybe a new spot. So as the days go by I'm constantly hitting new spots, covering ground. If it's been a good spot in the past, I may head back and check it out again a few days later.
Maybe I need to pick fewer areas and spend more time there and become more intimate with them and how the elk use the area?
Third season (last year) I narrowed it down to four primary spots and learned as much as possible about what the elk do there.
Each of the spots is many miles from the other so its a commitment to move camp, but it also "rests" the others. In each of them I was hunting an exceptional herd bull for CO public land. I wrecked one when I did an early am locator bugle and he came to me silently before shooting light. I wrecked another when I was trying to figure out a travel route in midday and my wind inadvertently swirled around the mountain and blew through the bedding area I didn't know was there.
I never heard any of these four big bulls bugle during daylight. Wasted many days trying to hunt where I was hearing bugles at night and finding lots of night sign, I now know. By daylight they were silent and way up the ridges. Now I believe I have a really good handle on how and when they are where they are. They cover lots of ground during normal daily travels but they follow certain contours and terrain features by habit.
This summer I'm going to "live" in a couple of these spots for a couple days and become an elk, based on what I've plotted on topo and GPS, and what I've learned. If I knew last year what I know now about the micro-habitats and what the elk do in each one, pretty sure I'd have killed one of those great bulls. So close.....
Elk pretty much hang in the same area's year after year during the rut timeframe. I go to my 4-5 fav spots from over the years experience/knowledge obtained and most always get into elk, non vocal or some years vocal.
Have fun on your Wyo elk hunt!
Good luck, Robb
Go have fun
BUGLELK's Link
I think you'll be in for a good elk season this year. The dates during the 2nd half of September line up with the moon and the Fall Equinox about as well as any elk season I can remember. I would absolutely not miss being in the elk woods from the 15th - 23rd this fall. If you aren't finding vocal elk during this time, I would definitely look at relocating... :-)
For me, the thrill of elk hunting comes from the calling interaction. My philosophy has always been to find a vocal elk. Even in the worst seasons and the toughest conditions, I feel there is a vocal elk somewhere in the unit. So, my job simply becomes finding him. And that means a lot of miles on the boots. I know for a fact that I walk by a lot of elk every day...but if they aren't bugling, I keep walking. I'm looking for a bull that is fired up and responsive, or at the very least, a bull that will talk so I can get him fired up and responsive.
I have spotted and stalked elk and I've hunted them over water, but not very often. Usually, the thought that there is a bull bugling somewhere keeps me moving and fuels my adult-onset ADHD, and I'm hiking to see what's over the next ridge... :-)
As others have mentioned, there are very effective methods for hunting elk when they aren't vocal. And there are many days - like in New Mexico last fall with Randy Newberg - where the elk just won't cooperate with calling. I prefer the excitement and challenge of calling elk - probably to a fault - so I usually opt to just keep grinding and find the one bull that is vocal...just over that next ridge... :-) That makes it very frustrating when they don't cooperate, but incredibly rewarding when they do...
Many thanks, Corey Jacobsen Elk101.com
cnelk... when you're targeting these pockets, are you still hunting, stand hunting, sitting well used trails/wallows?
Jaquomo... thanks again for the thoughts, definitely some things I need to think about. I need to think more like an elk maybe.
Elkman... I got a good chuckle out of that one, thank you!
ElkNut1
Glassing evenings can be extremely effective for locating elk herds or single bulls. Elk can be located 1/2 mile away or miles away from various vantage lookout type points, look for openings/pockets in the trees or sagebrush hillsides, these are generally feeding areas. They are easily found once in your area by driving around to locate these glassing points! Once elk are spotted you can now plan a hunt for the morning, those elk will be in the same vicinity!
If not successful glassing elk in the evenings then consider a Plan B for early mornings! Consider calling to locate bulls! When calling a Location Bugle is one of the best sounds you can use, this can be done by driving roads an hour & a half or so before daylight until just after daylight, stop every mile or so even though dark & Bugle 1- 3 times 45 seconds apart or until you receive a response. If no answer then move on & repeat until you do get a bull to respond back, eventually you will locate them!
This can also apply to walking Trails that are not heavily used! Don't bugle too close to other camps! -- Have your pack ready to shoulder in your rig so you can now pull off road & go after the elk you just found. Elk can call back a 100 yards from a road or a mile away, you never know where they may be found so don't limit your mileage in distance, keep going until you find them. Most bulls located this way are 5 & 6 point bulls. You will find elk! These two methods can help you to have purpose & an enjoyable elk hunt.
Here's a couple of photos we will look for to call into. Another photo of an evening glassing area. Notice the two red dots, I spotted elk in both of them. The furthest red dot to the top right is aprox 2 miles out.
ElkNut1
David, for us during those quiet times it's good to get creative to spark some interest at times. Quiet times mean no hot cows! Rattling horns or raking along with bull mews could certainly create curiosity to nearby elk, heck you never know. I suspect your mews/cow calls would sound more like a cow present during your raking or rattling to other elk, that's a good thing, this could excite nearby bulls that a cow is near & in or near estrus.
On occasion when I do get near elk I know are in their bedding or feeding area & they are fairly quiet (no hot cows) I like spicing things up along your line of thought if it's not possible to ninja in for a shot. Best time is first thing in the morning while still in feeding/watering area or just as they get to bedding area but still on their feet. (not in transition) Something that has worked well for us is to get within 150 yards of the elk with good setup/cover & favorable wind from where we feel the elk should approach from. I start with 2 soft mews, wait 5 seconds & give one mid volume excited whine. I wait 30 seconds & repeat. I now wait aprox 2 minutes & just give one excited pitchy whine. As I give these calls I rustle brush, shuffle my boots on the ground or apply any natural elk type movement. After about a minute or so I will now add raking a tree/brush or whatever is available as if a bull has showed & is displaying for this cow, this shows excitement. I will rake for 15 seconds or so & add a couple bull pants & a voice groan or two. There are many times a bull will respond to this sequence & other times not. No matter if one does or not it simulates a possible cow coming into estrus & this is why the bull is displaying/showing off to her. The elk that hear this do not recognize this cow or bull, these are unfamiliar elk. This can create curiosity & excitement to any bull within earshot & promote an appearance. They can come in very silent or offer a couple bugles or chuckles. If I get a bull to respond to me while doing this I quickly bugle a warning for him to stay back. This can really cement the idea in his head I have a cow in or nearing estrus.
Generally when a bull has a hot cow he's defensive towards other bulls. He doesn't want to share. If no hot cow in the group he's not nearly as defensive, this is what can sell it!
ElkNut1
I generally use cow sounds along with a bugle tone when I get close to a herd where there's a hot cow in the group. Without a hot cow in there my sounds wouldn't make much sense to the group so timing is important here for me. I will use 2-3 mews/whines & without hesitation go right into my bugle, this shows it is coming from a bull! I know when I use this that the herd bull or satellites around have no idea who I am, that's my ace in the hole. When a bull uses this sequence he is attempting to call the hot cow his way. He's not interested in just any cow but the one ready to be bred! This is why & when you will see real bulls using such a sequence. Outside of a cow in estrus elk can be fairly quiet & not nearly as aggressive. Right time, right sounds!
Here's a short audio clip on the Sounds By The Elk CD where several bulls are using cow mews & go right into their bugle, this is what I use when near a rutting group of elk if I can not silently slip in for a shot, this can draw a bull over your way if you can get inside their comfort zone. (inside 80 yards) My son & I have put a few bulls down with this method. We stay pretty close together with this method, aprox 25 yards apart. We hunt a lot of dark timber!
Hope this link works? (grin) I guess it didn't? Do you have the Sounds By The Elk CD? If so, it's sound # 14 -- Great sounds of bulls making this sound sequence.
ElkNut1