Contributors to this thread:
Im headed on a high country elk hunt in central Idaho fro the last 12 days of september. Just got a Sawtooth and haven't used it yet. We will be hunting off our backs and weight is an issue. We have the 18'' cylinder stove and a liner. My question for guys who have used these teepees, is the liner a must in this type of situation. If not, it would be nice bit of weight to avoid carrying.
No the liner is not needed. Never used a liner and I've used kifaru shelters for years
I have never used a liner in my Sawtooth.
Thanks, thats what I was hoping to hear.
I've never used a liner, and would not pack one in. Especially if I'm packing in a stove. It will burn off condensation and when it does build up again, sawtooth is roomy enough to keep me from touching side walls.
I'm the other crowd. I have never been able to regulate the air and stop condensation. Without a liner it will rain on you/gear for half the day. Firing up the stove will help burn it off. I would never consider not having a liner.
If you leave the very top of the zippers open, you minimize the condensation. If it's raining out, and you are not running the stove, you will on occasion get a sprinkle inside. It's never bothered me, even when I elk hunted in 3 straight days of rain. Others buy the liner.
Listening to Snyder and Avery talk about Northern Idaho on the podcasts, I'd take it. Give Kifaru a call and ask Aron about it.
a related question...when burning a stove while sleeping, are you guys worried about rolling over and brushing your bag up against the hot stove? is there anything out there to prevent that (small packable barrier, etc.)? just curious, as my daughter got a Seek Cimmaron with a stove Thx
I agree with Preston. Bring the liner. It may not be cold enough for the stove. The stoves can run you out of the tipi if not too cold. I did not see this personally but had one poster say he saw one in the Routt N.F. that looked like a rainforest inside because of the condensation. As you describe your hunt, I personally would bring the liner and not the stove but that is just my personal opinion. I hope y'all have a great hunt!
The stove is on legs. I've never rolled into it, but did bump it the hot part when awake once. Melted part of a bag quickly, but a little duct tape and it's still functioning fine.
Here's a novel idea. Unzip the door if condensation gets to be a problem. I know that's next level thinking but, it works in every tent ever made. Single or double layer.
A stove will dry one out quite a bit It will dry clothes. It will soothe tired bones and muscles. It's dry hear. Not wet heat. If you cook on a backpacking stove in a tipi, you are begging for condensation. Especially if there is moisture in the air.
I'm awaiting my tipi. I have stayed in others. I have stayed in all kinds of environments in all kinds of tents. Don't let floorless bother you. If it's that wet, a floored tent is going to leak soon enough through the floor. So, you are back into condesation but, worse because once a tent floor gets wet, it's impossible to dry out unless you hang it up. So, If I had my choice, I'm picking the stove combo over the liner. That's just me. God Bless
I have a liner for my Golite SL5, and I very rarely use it. The only time I do is when we're camping in the summer and the mosquitoes are bad. It stays home completely when I go elk hunting.
I used my tipi in Montana one fall when I fully expected to see an ark it rained so hard. The ground was pretty wet too when I set it up. I had some issues with condensation on that trip, but I also did not yet have a stock jack in the tent. A stove would have completely mitigated any condensation issues.
Thanks for the input. Im definitely not leaving the stove behind, kinda of the reason we went for the sawtooth in the first place. Bought the liner mainly for Alaska trips after reading Kevin Dill story of his caribou hunt.
808bowhunter trust me on the liner. I've used my Kifaru on many occasions from the rocky mountains and several trips to Alaska. Condensation is a big issue in these coated nylon single wall tents. I've tried everything with venting to no avail. But with a liner, its no sweat ,problem solved. Having said that, they are awesome for backcountry living. Kevin Dill can provide some valuable input also. He's spent many nights tucked into a Kifaru
Depends on the area. Some are high desert.... some are rain forest. Alot of ID, CO, etc. are high arid/desert areas and a liner likely not a game breaker. Even if there is "some" condensation it's not a game breaker...... with a stove, shouldn't be an issue, but if it's that wet your main concern will be dry sticks for the stove (and it is sticks you will burn in that stove).
If it were me I'm leave the liner at base camp. Deal with it if it comes up.
All depends upon how crucial that pound is. With out the liner you will get some condensation and your bag may get a touch damp but you won't die. It does suck in the middle of the night if it is raining outside and you are getting misted on in the tent. But again you aren't going to die. I didn't have a liner my last trip but can assure you if horses are packing my stuff in I will have it. If I have to carry it.....probably not anywhere in CO MT UT and southern ID. Just got to be smart on where you set it up and it will help keep condensation at bay.
Just one guy's thoughts and experiences:
I just don't obsess enough about the weight of a liner to make it a concern. It's simply not heavy enough to bother me. Now, if I was headed into a rather dry climate on a deep backpack hunt then maybe I'd leave it out. Maybe....maybe not.
I had the great good luck to get drilled by a 5-day storm in Alaska's Fortymile region in 2015. I was camped at sheep altitude and the storm was simply terrible. 5 days of high winds, severe rainfall, obscuring clouds, fog and dripping wetness. To top it off, it all ended with a snowstorm. I was in a Sawtooth and had no stove due to an absence of fuel...treeline far below and no brush where I was hunting. The condensation in my Sawtooth was beyond anything imaginable. The inside walls were totally coated with condensation droplets running in constant rivulets down the sides. Every gust of wind brought RAIN...not mist...on everything in the tent. My gear was rapidly getting saturated from condensation spray. I was forced to put in the liners (they come in 2 half-liners) to control spray. It worked. In that case I didn't look at the wetness as an inconvenient hassle. I saw it as a definite threat to wellbeing. I was 90 miles into the mountains and alone. Nobody could have gotten to me under that weather. Without the liners all my gear would have gotten totally wet within 24 hours leaving me to tough it through another 4 days plus the snowstorm. I try not to be melodramatic but there's no doubt the liners saved me from going into all-out survival mode.
I'll add this: In that situation a stove wouldn't have been a huge help....even with fuel around. The winds topped 60 mph and anyone who's used a little titanium woodstove knows how hard the wind will buffet a pipe and suck air through the stove. Burning it would have been a real hazard. The lack of fuel answered it for me anyway. My situation was undoubtedly unusual, but that just proves what can happen when crazy weather strikes and you're a long way from anywhere.
Incidentally, a guy can decide to use one (half) liner on the side used for sleeping and save some weight. Not my plan, but doable. If I'm taking the Sawtooth on an important hunt I can give you 95% assurance the liners will be along.
Good points Kevin. I've never been 90 miles out. My worst case scenario is packing stuff up and I can hike out to the truck in a few hours tops.
Goes to show how important it is to consider how and where the usage will occur.
I absolutely agree JLS. Not every man and every hunt is the same. Best to understand the situation and go from there. When a guy can walk out or otherwise deal easily with things (like typical condensation) a liner could well be omitted. I recall thinking many times how thankful I was to have the liners with me.
That is a good Point Kevin.
I'm always glad to have my liner in my 8 man in Alaska. The first time I used it I did not have a liner. It was the end of September years ago in Utah and I had no issues but did buy a liner as I knew it would be key for AK. When I go back to Utah, the liner I bought will still be in it; there is no downside IMO as a horse will be carrying it. Last August I got dropped off up high on Kodiak. I had half the liner in my Sawtooth as an experiment. It worked out great; the side I slept on under the liner was always completely dry. The other side had condensation. It would have been irritating to me sleeping and living on that side but not life threatening.
I'm pretty fond of the liner.
Pay attention to KD's post.
I use a seek outside redcliffe with full liner/zipper, and stove, combined weight 8lbs (sleeps 4 comfy, 6 tight). Not super light, but if weather is nice a bivy bag or poncho hooch (or tarp of some nature) is all you need. The reason for tent and stove is if/when heavy snow/rain/winds comes in unexpectedly. This scenario CAN KILL YOU!!. If this happens a stove and Liner will allow you to keep dry and comfortable until you can get out/weather breaks. That rascal is much more air tight than the old lined canvas tent with liner, so if you need to stay in zipped tight you will be glad you brought the extra LB or 2.
