Carbon Express Arrows
Mechs better recovery rate than fixed
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
zionwapitiwhacker 13-May-17
elk yinzer 13-May-17
zionwapitiwhacker 13-May-17
MarkU 13-May-17
lamb 13-May-17
Woods Walker 13-May-17
tradmt 13-May-17
Brotsky 13-May-17
Woods Walker 13-May-17
IdyllwildArcher 13-May-17
Woods Walker 13-May-17
ohiohunter 14-May-17
Scoot 14-May-17
Burly 14-May-17
tradmt 14-May-17
EF Hutton 14-May-17
JTV 14-May-17
EF Hutton 14-May-17
Teeton 14-May-17
JimG 14-May-17
tradmt 14-May-17
JTV 14-May-17
bb 14-May-17
ohiohunter 14-May-17
drycreek 14-May-17
Scooby-doo 14-May-17
DConcrete 14-May-17
JTV 14-May-17
Beendare 14-May-17
PECO 14-May-17
Glunt@work 14-May-17
HDE 14-May-17
tradmt 14-May-17
Backpack Hunter 14-May-17
Thornton 14-May-17
Bowdog 14-May-17
Bowdog 14-May-17
Bowdog 14-May-17
Teeton 14-May-17
Too Many Bows Bob 14-May-17
EF Hutton 14-May-17
Bou'bound 14-May-17
JTV 14-May-17
JTV 14-May-17
ohiohunter 14-May-17
loopmtz 14-May-17
Tracker 14-May-17
zionwapitiwhacker 14-May-17
Bowfreak 14-May-17
ohiohunter 14-May-17
Teeton 14-May-17
GF 14-May-17
JTV 14-May-17
JTV 14-May-17
JTV 14-May-17
Matt 14-May-17
EF Hutton 14-May-17
EF Hutton 15-May-17
SteveB 15-May-17
APauls 15-May-17
Will 15-May-17
Brotsky 15-May-17
TD 15-May-17
Teeton 15-May-17
Brotsky 15-May-17
Will tell 15-May-17
Will 15-May-17
Scoot 16-May-17
TD 16-May-17
lamb 17-May-17
DConcrete 17-May-17
Matt 18-May-17
tradmt 18-May-17
PAbowhunter1064 18-May-17
HDE 18-May-17
ohiohunter 18-May-17
ELKMAN 18-May-17
PAbowhunter1064 18-May-17
PECO 18-May-17
ohiohunter 18-May-17
tradmt 18-May-17
DConcrete 18-May-17
stealthycat 18-May-17
ohiohunter 18-May-17
ELKMAN 18-May-17
ohiohunter 18-May-17
stealthycat 18-May-17
ELKMAN 18-May-17
ohiohunter 18-May-17
WapitiBob 18-May-17
HDE 18-May-17
ohiohunter 18-May-17
JTV 18-May-17
WapitiBob 18-May-17
Will 18-May-17
jfish 18-May-17
HDE 18-May-17
JTV 18-May-17
Beendare 19-May-17
PECO 19-May-17
wyobullshooter 19-May-17
zionwapitiwhacker 19-May-17
JTV 19-May-17
ELKMAN 19-May-17
PECO 19-May-17
ohiohunter 19-May-17
ELKMAN 19-May-17
RogBow 19-May-17
PECO 19-May-17
Matt 19-May-17
ELKMAN 20-May-17
tradmt 20-May-17
PECO 20-May-17
tradmt 20-May-17
PECO 21-May-17
kentuckbowhnter 21-May-17
Matt 22-May-17
ohiohunter 22-May-17
Scrappy 22-May-17
Scrappy 22-May-17
Will 22-May-17
13-May-17
Here is some solid proof: https://www.qdma.com/high-deer-recovery-rates-fixed-blade-mechanical-broadheads/ Discuss.....

From: elk yinzer
13-May-17
Screw your melodramatic clickbait thread title. Small sample size and bias at play in that "study". Just read the next to last paragraph, it says everything you need to know about this worn out "debate".

13-May-17
Did I trigger somebody? Catch you at that time of the month?

From: MarkU
13-May-17
Utard alert

From: lamb
13-May-17
go to africa for cape buffalo with your mech head. they'll put you back on the plane

From: Woods Walker
13-May-17
Even if your data is accurate, a mechanical head STILL has a 100% greater chance of not opening or other failure of a moving part than a fixed blade head has.

From: tradmt
13-May-17
I might run out of popcorn.

From: Brotsky
13-May-17
Didn't we just do this for 500+ posts?

From: Woods Walker
13-May-17
Clickbait.........

13-May-17
Does BH choice even matter on deer-sized animals?

From: Woods Walker
13-May-17
As long as it's razor sharp and goes through them, probably not.

From: ohiohunter
14-May-17
Deer sized game is less critical but still stand chance of failure. Decent arrow weight should be considered.

This guy just nailed tbm status for annoyance.

From: Scoot
14-May-17
Zion your idea of "solid proof" is really different than mine. This is much more a case of beating a dead horse. This tired old argument has gotten too boring to bother responding to further...

From: Burly
14-May-17
Did Dan Perez write this study.

From: tradmt
14-May-17
"Does BH choice even matter on deer-sized animals?"

Only in hindsight.

From: EF Hutton
14-May-17
History of the Mechanical Broadhead

Back in the 1986 era into the early 1990’s, summertime 3d shooting was very popular. Many people had overdraws and short arrows in an effort to flatten trajectory and lessen the need to be able to judge yardage. However, the bows were grossly out of tune with those rigs. What happened was, in October these folks wanted to go hunting. They screwed in one of the popular heads of that era, such as the Thunderhead, and they suddenly discovered that they had severe flight problems. It was already almost October and they needed a quik fix. Rather than take the overdraw off and throw it in the garbage can, and the short arrows, they went to a band aid approach, and screwed in a mech head. That was the era where the popular phrase “ Fly like a field point “ was born. And it stuck around. However, the bows were still grossly out of tune, and were noisy and destroying themselves. The energy had no where to go. It usually is absorbed by the proper arrow, but these short , too lite arrows would not absorb it, so everything rattled. THIS is where the Sims Vibration rubber got popular. Another Band Aid. See, it never ends. Had these individuals gotton rid of the overdraw, the out of tune short arrows, and used proper spine arrows with steerable fletching, such as 4 inch or 5 inch, one of the great fixed heads would have flown correctly and the bow would be quiet & in tune. It is not too much different today. I think the need to belong peer pressure plays a big part. A lot of people want to use what the group is using, even though it may be against tune physics.” Become individualistic. Use good solid equipment. I would use a good fixed cut on contact head, and keep it very sharp. Make sure you have correct arrows, I would stay in the 7’s or into the 8’s as far as arrow weight grains per pound of draw weight. I would use at least a 3 inch or preferably a 4 inch vane or feather to steer. I would offset vanes or spiral feathers. . Don’t worry about losing FPS. Today's bow technology gives you plenty speed & quietness to do this.

In the deep south, chickory mixed in coffee is still popular and consumed by many. It tastes horrible. BUT, it became a tradition . Chickory was put into coffee to make it go further during the hard times and depression. But it stuck around and became a tradition, much like the 80's era of mech heads.

Not picking on the young gens, because today they teach us 50's hunters a lot of the new technology, and I am glad for that info. However, we have been around the block for a long time, and we saw stuff that would help wean them off the mech head and the peer pressure to use it.

From: JTV
14-May-17
The Mech. heads of today are no where close to the flimsy crap of the '80's like that Puckett POS .. ... I will put my Steelheads thru a 55 gallon drum no problem...that being said, I do use both for deer (Fixed and Mech's).... And with dozens killed with the Steelhead series, and most of those pass thrus or two holes, I'll continue to use 'em...but I will also continue to use the Slicks and kill critters with those also. Depending on my mood of that day, I'll decide which to use......why? ...because I friggin' can .....match the head to the game your after, and dont worry about the nay saying asshat mech. haters on here .....

From: EF Hutton
14-May-17
See that attitude answer. You won't get an answer like that from the more experienced folks. They try to help and are respectful. That excells in all of life, ceo's, managers, business owners , etc

From: Teeton
14-May-17
Lol! As I read this thread as soon as I saw familiar names. I already knew pretty much how their posts were going to be written...

From: JimG
14-May-17
Any honest mechanical bh shooter will tell you their broadheads failed to open at some time in their use. Broadhead placement on the animal is what it's all about in the first place. I know it's wasted words but if you rely on your "cut a hole the size of an axe" type of logic to make up for accuracy then you as an ethical hunter have missed the boat.

From: tradmt
14-May-17
Asshat, that's funny!

I think there is about 5 people tops that post here that are real 'haters', most just feel mechanicals allow for greater chance of failure and are a solution to a non existent problem.

From: JTV
14-May-17
some here are on that lofty perch waaay up there with their holier than thou attitudes aint that right Hutton (sounds like a damn commercial with that name)... then there are those who understand that using the right head for the animal will also equate into quick kills and recoveries.... "any honest mech. user will say they failed to open " ? ... Those Steelheads never fail to open, and I'm honest ...lol...

From: bb
14-May-17
"proper spine arrows with steerable fletching, such as 4 inch or 5 inch,"

Always got a kick out of the "Steerable fletching" concept.

From: ohiohunter
14-May-17
IMO the primary purpose of a mbh is to be able shoot a large cutting bh and be devoid of huge blades which effect flight. Now based on that why in the hell would anyone shoot a steel head under normal circumstances? Steel heads have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

From: drycreek
14-May-17
I wish somebody had told that last turkey I shot.......

From: Scooby-doo
14-May-17
I shot mechanicals a couple times in the 90's never liked them. I had both good and bad results. Some never opened, some saved me a few times when I hit too far back and basically the deer gutted themselves as they ran off. My belief is many just do not know how to tune a bow well enough and shoot them as they do fly better with a bow not tuned perfectly. I killed close to 50 or so deer with Steelforce 4 blade heads then the company switched hands and they became garbage. I would not even bother shooting a mech. now a days. Too many good fixed heads out there. I know this gets old but I do have to laugh at the folks who get all pissie about it. Shoot what ya want, you have to live with the consequences anyway, no one else! Scooby

From: DConcrete
14-May-17
I love how a lot of the older guys feel like their opinion is the only one that holds any water. They feel like they're not being condescending when they express their opinions but anyone else who expresses their opinion is being condescending.

Innovation is a good thing and I'd have to say that mechanicals have proven their worth. I use slick tricks. Why? Because I've had great luck with them.

A lot of you close minded folks make me chuckle, just like when I think what the first chain saw salesman had to encountered with yesteryears lumber jacks.

Just like construction guys whose dads used a rock to pound nails. "My dad used a rock, so I'm gonna use a rock"

And then somebody showed you how to use it with a handle on it, nope!! "Dad used a rock without a handle, I'm gonna use a rock without a handle".

Some of you older guys need to get over yourselves too.

Mechanicals work. Plain and simple. They work. Everyone here loves vpa heads. I personally do not. I like a 4 blade head. Just my experiences. Just my opinion. Doesn't make anyone else lazy or stupid because they want to use something else.

And to paint all mechanicals with the same brush is just as ignorant to paint all fixed heads with the same brush.

From: JTV
14-May-17
The Steelhead series is an excellent head to use in many situations, one being the wind blown western plains for Mule deer and Antelope when a fixed head may drift due to the surface area of the exposed blades, the Steelhead XL's are even better yet with their wider 1.5" cut ... plus, they have pin point accuracy ... just as my FP's ;0) .... like I said, for deer use Both the Steelhead series and Slicks, why, because I can and they work ...

From: Beendare
14-May-17
Makes sense to me that mech heads would be better for the avg bowhunter.

The avg bowhunter doesn't BH tune. So a BH that doesn't steer is going to be better in their untuned bow.

So this study speaks to the avg bowhunter equipment setup....and not a comparison of BH effectiveness as some say it portrays.

From: PECO
14-May-17
Let's get 500 more out of this one!

From: Glunt@work
14-May-17
There are many parts of bowhunting that are full of big unknowns and challenges that are usually avoidable with enough research and preparation. Other parts will always be a mystery (thats a good thing) and effort and/or luck are how they are usually overcame. Broadheads aren't in either category.

Reliable, great performing & affordable options have been around for a long time. That doesn't mean there aren't newer options and future options that accomplish the task, but if making a list of gear to be concerned about, broadheads are one of the easiest to check off. There are so many great options available. Aside from metallurgy specifics or a hidden flaw, common sense and a trip to the range are all thats needed to have a solid idea of how a broadhead design will perform in regards to flight, strength and penetration.

Arrows fly through the air and look sort of like a rocket, but it isn't rocket science.

From: HDE
14-May-17
^^^ now that's a funny post. (Edit, a few posts above)

There are some extremely effective and well above avg bowhunters out there that use mechanicals...

From: tradmt
14-May-17
I have to LOL at the wind drift stuff. How many remember shooting 2315/2317 and 125 Thunderheads and Muzzys at 210 fps out to 40 or 50 yards? Amazing we ever killed anything with arrows so fat and slow and if the wind was that bad we hunted in for closer shots. Quite a concept.

14-May-17
^^^and those guys (myself included) passed up shots because the equipment wasn't up to the task. Now that the equipment is capable you increase your chances of an "ethical" kill. Quite a concept.

From: Thornton
14-May-17
I would have to agree with the thread statement but will add that they also have a much higher fail rate than fixed. Missed a very nice buck on my farm in December last year due to a Rage that opened in flight.

From: Bowdog
14-May-17

From: Bowdog
14-May-17

From: Bowdog
14-May-17
I don't respond on here at all but I can't help my self to this one I had 3 expandable broadheads not open in one year I never have to sit about that with fixblades I killed all 3 deer but only because of good shots

From: Teeton
14-May-17
Thornton, how do you know that the head opened in flight ? Also if it did and went off course, I would think that a fix head would of went off course too. Ed

14-May-17
Lamb,

I would not take a .270 Winchester after a Cape Buffalo, but I've killed a lot of deer with one. Trying to compare what would kill a Cape with what is perfectly adequate for taking a deer is the same kind of comparison.

TMBB

From: EF Hutton
14-May-17
If i had my own hunting plantation, 2 of my rules for invites would be :

1) no mech heads

2) no internal combustion engine atv

From: Bou'bound
14-May-17
How come so many people claim these work so well. What is their motivation to mislead us

From: JTV
14-May-17

From: JTV
14-May-17
certain ones do, certain ones dont.... I use the one that does

From: ohiohunter
14-May-17
Tradmt: "most just feel mechanicals allow for greater chance of failure and are a solution to a non existent problem."

100% on point with this statement. I'll second, what is to be gained by shoving mechs down people's throats? Rage already does this on every show and magazine.

From: loopmtz
14-May-17
Rage rules!

From: Tracker
14-May-17
The reason a lot of us still use Steelheads is because the work. I have killed dozens of whitetails, a few bears, a couple caribou and a few elk with them along with a nice Aoudad last year.

14-May-17
I hear great things about steelheads all the time. However, I have heard that since Trophy Ridge took over production of them that quality took a nose dive, and they come with really dull blades. Can anyone weigh in on this?

From: Bowfreak
14-May-17
Personally I think the same people that have numerous mechanical failures are probably the same people who never are at fault when they miss a deer. What are they supposed to do when every deer jumps the string?

From: ohiohunter
14-May-17
I don't have to argue a fbh "working" bc the only time they fail is when I fail. No questions no excuses. I assure you every animal you shot with your steelhead would have been harvested just the same, possibly with more penetration, had they been shot with a fbh.

From: Teeton
14-May-17
Zionwapitwhacker, I'm a long time steelhead user. I don't find them shaving sharp... But still find them sharper than many other heads. I've shot many of animals with them and get great penetration. The best was on a 180 lbs bear. I hit it right in front of the left hind leg and it came out in front of the right front leg. On every animal I shoot I always do an autopsy and get good results..

As for quality, I still have a bunch of the old steelheads and the new ones and can't find any difference in quality. The biggest animal I've ever killed with them I guess was about 600/650 lbs. Some believe that the vents on blades,, as the head is going through an animal may have flesh go into the vent and cause drag. Steelheads have no vent in the blade's to cause this. Ed

From: GF
14-May-17
All that "study" really shows is that poor recovery rates are generally indicative of poor judgement.

More to the point for me: Elk are deer, but deer ain't Elk.

"what is to be gained by shoving mechs down people's throats? "

Silly rabbit!!

What's mostly green and white and has pictures of dead presidents on it?

If you know how to sharpen a blade, you can still buy a great, completely reliable broadhead for $5 each. Anybody says it's necessary to spend more than that is trying to sell you something.

From: JTV
14-May-17
I'll even argue with the right arrow/set up, the Steelheads can, will and has killed any animal in North America a FB head has and can... Yes, they are sharp, and easy to touch up with a Tru Angle hone, just as any FB can be

From: JTV
14-May-17

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo
The Steelheads also have placed in either first place or near the top in many BH tests, even when put up against some of the Top FB heads...outdoor life did one years back, Scoutlook did one last season ....

From: JTV
14-May-17

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo
A 3 pack for $20 is hard to beat ... I'll kill deer again with 'em this season .... BTW, just for those that use 'em, I use the same steel washer on 'em that I do on my Slicks...

From: Matt
14-May-17
"Any honest mechanical bh shooter will tell you their broadheads failed to open at some time in their use."

That sounds more like something dishonest fixed broadheads shooters will tell you. Out of 70-75 animals I have shot with MBH's, I;ve never had actuation issues. In fact, I've tried to find a reliable method to keep the blades of MBH's from actuating in practice with poor success and gave up.

" Broadhead placement on the animal is what it's all about in the first place. I know it's wasted words but if you rely on your "cut a hole the size of an axe" type of logic to make up for accuracy then you as an ethical hunter have missed the boat. "

Wasted words indeed - given the article indicates the data reflects MBH's are both more accurate and result in higher recovery rates than fixed blade BH's (it's a good article, you should read it). This is a case where we can have our cake (accuracy) and eat it too (lethality).

"All that "study" really shows is that poor recovery rates are generally indicative of poor judgement."

Are you saying folks who chose fixed blade BH's generally demonstrate poor judgement?

From: EF Hutton
14-May-17
No matter which head you use, you should be skilled with sharpening it's blades.

In & out of the quiver, brushing against leaves, humidity, all dull that keen edge. I use diamond stones and water. Touch them up about every other night at camp .

From: EF Hutton
15-May-17
This October I will be shooting NAP Hellrazor 125 on my 2 wheel bows.

Still will be shooting Thunder Valley Snuffers 150g on the recurve and x ......

From: SteveB
15-May-17
Wow, we really have to do this AGAIN??

From: APauls
15-May-17
ziowapititwhacker, I have had no issue with recent Steelheads.

That is all

From: Will
15-May-17
500, 500, 500, 500 :)

There are a ton of awesome fixed and mech heads out there today. I've been fortunate to have success with both, and over my decades of hunting, I've messed up with both (which stunk). I really dont get the 100% more chance of failing argument. Well, I get it, but it does not jive for me. A replaceable blade head has a 100% greater chance of losing a blade compared to a single blade head. A compound has 100% greater chance of having the string jump a wheel/cam on the shot than a recurve. A release has 100% greater chance of being lost on the way to the stand than your fingers... It's just one of those "logical" debate points that feels like it attempts to keep everyone at the top of Dunning and Kruger's curve, well, the first peak of the curve.

Ill get flamed for that thought. Oh well. Ill also keep happily going hunting with 3 mech's and a single slick trick for days I sit in a blind with shoot through mesh. (I tune, and the result is that they all fly very well giving me indistinguishable groups), and Ill enjoy lots of pass through shots and confidence in my set up.

That all said, there is no good way to describe Pucketts Blood Trailers... Woof! Then again, those darn early 80's or even mid 80's Satellite fixed blades with the paper thin blades were no rock star's either :)

Good to see progress, in both fixed and mech heads. Gives us all something to debate when it's not deer/elk/moose/buffalo etc season...

From: Brotsky
15-May-17
Let's get right to the meat of this matter shall we? If you guys were to be sexually assaulted by a sasquatch, would you bet your virginity on a mech or fixed head for protection?

From: TD
15-May-17
I've never had any issues with actuation....... but is there anything that helps with premature actuation????

(never been much good at baseball either.....)

From: Teeton
15-May-17
Brotsky,, that was you that the sasquatch (aka Lou) got?

Remember you opened the door to my post.. :)

From: Brotsky
15-May-17
Ed, all I'm going to say is make damn sure you look both ways before you open your packet of beef jerky.

From: Will tell
15-May-17
You fellas have a choice, try shooting a self bow with a mech head. I don't think so. Matter of fact I don't know anyone who shoots recurves or longbows who shoot mech heads.

From: Will
15-May-17
Brotsky and TD - you guys are frigging awesome. That was hysterical! ha ha ha! I've never had premature actuation when confronted by a sasquatch... Just wanted to clarify. ;) (one needs to be cautious with coma's when writing a sentence like that, eh?)

(500, 500, 500, 500 :))

From: Scoot
16-May-17
"If you guys were to be sexually assaulted by a sasquatch, would you bet your virginity on a mech or fixed head for protection?"

Brotsky- you talkin' 'bout a cute sasquatch?

From: TD
16-May-17
I'm curious as to what he meant by "protection"....... heheheheheh.....

From: lamb
17-May-17
hi too many bows so a fixed blade is good for buff but not for deer? i live in the sacramento mnts in southern new mexico 1 mile from my taxidermist friend. the bowhunters that stop in and the elk not recovered by these guys is a sin. mechs. fail you know it and i know it. they also shoot like "field points" so everybody thinks they can shoot long at game = lost game.

From: DConcrete
17-May-17
What? ^^

From: Matt
18-May-17
A sledge hammer is good for concrete but not for driving finish nails - different tools for different jobs. It is surprising folks can't take simple concepts they apply to their day to day lives to bowhunting.

From: tradmt
18-May-17
It is if you're trying to kill finishing nails. Just sayin

18-May-17
"...the elk not recovered by these guys is a sin. mechs. fail you know it and i know it." - lamb

Great, now there is an 11th Commandment! Thou shall not Rage, Schwack, or Steelhead!

From: HDE
18-May-17
What about elk not recovered by fixed COC? Just askin...

From: ohiohunter
18-May-17
All in favor of the 11th...... I

Most probably are clueless about where lamb lives, which relative to NM is elk central. This one unit issues around 2000 tags not including LO tags and is one of the highest demand units which also brings out all "kinds", and texans. I've heard a story from local about a texan who shot an elk and b/c it wasn't DRT he (thought) didn't kill it, zero inclination to track. Lambs message is quite clear, not sure what Dintheconcrete is questioning.

From: ELKMAN
18-May-17
All I know is they work for me.

18-May-17
Shame on you, ELKMAN! You blasphemer! Sinner, sinner, elk steak dinner! :-D

From: PECO
18-May-17
I don't know which is more bogus, mechanicals or "studies" that favor their performance over fixed blade.

From: ohiohunter
18-May-17
So what you're really saying is when you're on their payroll it doesn't matter if they work.

From: tradmt
18-May-17
Hunters of unrecovered game have no idea WTF happened other than maybe a clear shot placement error and/or severe lack of penetration which could have been caused by any number of things but the one thing for sure is a fixed coc head didn't fail to expose sharp edges. Ever, and a lack of moving parts makes them inherently less prone to operational failure.

Of course not all heads are created equal and some are way better than others in both the fixed and mechanical, and while lots of people have great success with mechanicals, including me, they can fail to open.

I think if you personally have had a higher loss rate with fixed heads, it wasn't the fault of the head. There, that should give this thread a boost! :)

From: DConcrete
18-May-17
Dintheconcrete huh?

I was questioning what he was saying because I couldn't decipher the paragraph.

A man as smart as you should've been able to figure out what I was saying.

From: stealthycat
18-May-17
sure

From: ohiohunter
18-May-17
The less you leave open to interpretation the less likely you will be misinterpreted. Besides I love sticking myDintheConcrete... cools you off on hot summer days.

From: ELKMAN
18-May-17
For all who are on this thread or are going to be I have a simple question to pose: What is the larger factor in quickly killing and recovering big game animals with bow and arrow? A.-Where you hit the animal? i.e. Shot placement. Or B.- What you hit them with? In other words would you rather have a perfectly placed arrow with a mech? Or mediocre placement with a conventional? Just curious about the intelligence running through these threads. I'm sure you will all have plenty to say and expand upon, but if you would please answer the actual question first so I don't have to try absorb the rest of your undoubtedly "brilliant" analysis... ;-)

From: ohiohunter
18-May-17
Princess, I mean your highness, being as your intelligence is far too vast for us simpletons to conceptualize your lopsided scenario... why would a mbh impact an animal with CONSIDERABLY more accuracy than a fbh?

From: stealthycat
18-May-17
Elkman not that simple - you forgot to add C. do you want a braodhead that won't break and D. do you want pass through and of course E do you want your broadhead to open

From: ELKMAN
18-May-17
That's about what I figured. Why answer a simple question if the answer doesn't support your argument. Let me guess... You vote democrat??? I'm more interested in "getting it right" than "being right".

From: ohiohunter
18-May-17
elkman, why do you mostly only weigh in on the bh topic? Other than that I rarely see you offer anything of sustenance. With all of "YOUR" success why are you mostly opinionated about bh? Does your contract require you to post X amount of rage garble?

BTW your question purposes one of the most asinine scenarios. Would you rather shoot an animal in the hoof w/ a fixed bh or in the heart with a mechanical? WTF kind of podunk sister loving bullsh*t question is that?

From: WapitiBob
18-May-17
That's not what he asked.

From: HDE
18-May-17
All well placed shots will kill. All misplaced shots won't necessarily.

Saw a deer die one time with a well placed shot to the heart from a judo point, details are irrelevant.

From: ohiohunter
18-May-17
"That's not what he asked."

Then you answer the irrelevant question.

From: JTV
18-May-17
I cant believe the hate some have on here against mechs... there good and bad BH's in both categories of Mech's and Fixed .... both have their attributes, that why I use both... I went to mechs, a 1.5" cut at the time when I was doing urban hunts next to houses, I wanted a larger cut to do more damage on a misplaced shot as well as a perfect shot. I used the 1.5" Sidewinders at that time and they worked perfectly and were flawless....if there is an errant shot, esp. back in the liver, gut area I do believe a wider cut will do more damage and a higher chance of recovery is possible due to that wider cut...

then you have those who no matter what, can NOT tune a fixed head worth a crap, not every one is an expert like all of us on here (much sarcasm intended for those in Rio Linda)... this can be due to many reason, one of which is just being lazy, to poor of form, or not having the mechanics/tools to do so... they will never achieve the same POI of FP and Fixed, so for total accuracy sake, maybe a Mech. is a better choice with that wider cut, they are gonna hunt anyways, so why not get the most damage done as possible.....so, as the haters will continue to hate, I'm just gonna continue to kill with my Steelheads and my Slicks, Why, because I CAN !! ....

From: WapitiBob
18-May-17
" What is the larger factor in quickly killing and recovering big game animals with bow and arrow? A.-Where you hit the animal? i.e. Shot placement. Or B.- What you hit them with?"

The answer is obvious to me, but based on some of these threads, there seems to be some differing opinions.

From: Will
18-May-17
Good Questions ElkMan: What is the larger factor in quickly killing and recovering big game animals with bow and arrow? A.-Where you hit the animal? i.e. Shot placement. Or B.- What you hit them with? In other words would you rather have a perfectly placed arrow with a mech? Or mediocre placement with a conventional?

Where I hit is the most important thing - by far. Perfect shot with a mech, sure, sounds good to me. Mediocre placement with a FB... No thank you. But that would go for either head type.

But, if I screw up, or my arrow is deflected (still my screw up), and I hit the abdomen of a deer, but I'm shooting a 1.5-2.5" cut head with my 90#KE, I am confident my mediocre to very bad placement of the arrow has greater odds of my finding that deer in short order, compared to shooting a 1-1.25" FB.

If I hit a bone... I'm not convinced many heads are going through the origin of the humerus where it connects to the scapula. I'm not convinced many are making it through the spinous process which runs along the scap either. Get the flat plate of the scap... sure, but if that's biasing my thinking, I may screw up and hit a 2-5" square area which a FB MAY get through easier than a mech...Maybe. Even if I give the knuckle, upper humerus, or spinous process of the scap, we are talking a small area of the deer - very small compared to the area below the spine, behind the shoulder, above the sternum and back to the hips basically. No way would I want to hit anything but lungs/heart. But it does happen, and at least on deer size game, experience and what I see with others, suggests that mechs can workout awesome. (that's not me saying I or others I know constantly make bad shots. Most are good... But on the bad ones, I know of more that hit the soft areas compared to the hard ones - which makes sense given it's much more area of the animals body)

That said, everyone I know who shoots mechs, 1.) uses a lot of energy, often overkill for the game they are hunting; 2.) tunes their bow really well and 3.) practices a lot.

There certainly are "hunters" who buy some heads the day before the season, and think: "fly like my field tips" so they screw em on and go hunt - that's not likely ending well. Then again, that "hunter", his/her target is not likely getting a responsible shot regardless of what they screwed onto the end of their arrow.

As for elk, moose etc. No idea. But I'm not going to say they cant work on deerish sized game, consistently, based on what I've seen. Just comes down to responsibly implementing the gear you choose - regardless of being FB or Mech.

(Hope that doesn't come off annoyingly. Not trying to... just hard to get intent across via the internet. So, to be clear - just good coffee talk, not trying to be a jerk here!)

From: jfish
18-May-17
T

From: HDE
18-May-17
Anybody ever run a rest to find out how much energy is used to deploy blades held in place by the same kind of rubber bands used for braces...?

From: JTV
18-May-17
waaay back when I sold Rocket BH's, I contacted them and asked how much energy they used to open, I was told the Steelhead uses 2-3 lbs of KE to pop open....thats nuthin' ...this was when Chris Rager owned them, the original owner .... as for my self, Ive always been around the 80lb ke range/ , so penetration has never been a problem, and this is also shooting arrows in the 375-400 gr range, but I also was shooting 280 fps -over 300 fps....

From: Beendare
19-May-17
One of my buddies that was shooting the ASA at the time shot a Huge buck at 25 yds from a treestand that we never found. He was sick about it- the buck was a TOAD. He said the arrow was corkscrewing, hit the buck with poor penetration.

We checked and taking arrows out of his quiver resulted in blades prematurely deploying.

I know what his answer would be to elkmans question...as there isn't a guarantee your mech tipped arrow will fly perfectly.

Do they make a Mech head with a guarantee the blades won't prematurely deploy?

From: PECO
19-May-17
woot woot 100

19-May-17
630 posts between the two Mech vs Fixed Blade threads. Anyone from either side of the "debate" change your mind? Didn't think so. lol!

19-May-17
The day I lose an animal to a mech, and it can 100% be blamed on the mech and not operator error, I will change my mind. Until then, I won't hate on them just because a bunch of know-it-all blow hards on the internet don't like them.

From: JTV
19-May-17
out of over 80+ deer killed with archery gear, going back to my first time bowhunting back in the late 80's to today, I would have to say, out of all deer lost, and it aint many BTW, I was using fixed heads. However, I dont blame them, most was due to a lousy shot selection and rushing the shot... Ive since learned, and would rather pass on a deer, even if it is a big 'un, rather than risk a shot and lose it....bad shots do happen, there is no doubt due to various factors, but I can honestly say, its never been the BH's fault that I can tell....but, a larger cut diameter and the inherit accuracy of mech's may limit those losses on a hit that is iffy, as long as the bow is tuned as it should be ...

From: ELKMAN
19-May-17
Bruce: The new Rage shock collars will not prematurely deploy.

From: PECO
19-May-17
Does that then increase their potential of not deploying?

From: ohiohunter
19-May-17
Zion, I don't recall anyone asking you to hate anything.

From: ELKMAN
19-May-17
Peco: I must say I don't like the collars as much as the O rings. But with some special care/ tuning/tweaking they function perfectly.

From: RogBow
19-May-17
Come at me bro, ttt

From: PECO
19-May-17
"But with some special care/ tuning/tweaking they function perfectly." So a mechanical broad head is like a carburetor and a fixed blade like fuel injection, it is all making sense now.

From: Matt
19-May-17
It is funny how many guys get hung up on the "actuate versus doesn't actuate" and completely ignore the statistics contained in the study which suggest it doesn't matter and are unwilling to question their (often baseless) assumptions.

Don't ever change guys.

From: ELKMAN
20-May-17
Let's face it: Your not pushing a Rage through ANY animal hide and having it "not actuate". That would defy the laws of physics. I haven't used many other mechs. so I cant speak on them with the same certainty, but the whole "my broadhead didn't open" argument is an absolute load of bull $h!t. (And at least 99.9% of the time an unprovable, and or unsubstantiated)

From: tradmt
20-May-17
I had a Spitfire leave two blades closed. It happened, and you're right, I thought wow, what a bunch of bullshit! The good thing was that I recovered the animal and with all the other critters I killed with them I never had another failure. I would say they are pretty good heads but there is one thing for certain, I will never have a fixed blade not display it's cutting edge.

After years of using Spitfires with great success I learned a few things.....I learned that mechanicals didn't give me any advantages, I didn't see better blood trails, I still had lots of blood when I hit the good stuff at the right angle just like a fixed and I still had little blood if I didn't or if I didn't have an exit. So, I went back to fixed because heads without moving parts are less prone to failure.

I think one of the biggest draw backs to most of these mechanicals is the blade angle and trying to keep the weight down while trying to maximize cutting diameter.

From: PECO
20-May-17
Wait, you continued to use them for many more animals after the failure? Why?

From: tradmt
20-May-17
No, the failure was close to the last time if not the last, been quite a few years ago now.

From: PECO
21-May-17
Got it.

21-May-17
"Any honest mechanical bh shooter will tell you their broadheads failed to open at some time in their use." baloney. been using rockets since they came out, never a failure and they kill the hell out of elk.

From: Matt
22-May-17
"baloney. been using rockets since they came out, never a failure and they kill the hell out of elk."

Ditto with lots of species with Vortex - never a failure to deploy over 7-80 animals. Hopefully these perspectives help folks understand who is being dishonest in this discussion.

From: ohiohunter
22-May-17
Failure to open, no, failure to adequately penetrate, yes. Sadly enough it was on deer. One was close enough that I heard the blades open and got crap for penetration. I've heard of someone here on the forum have steelhead failures. However I haven't heard of any fbh failures that weren't direct results of human error.

From: Scrappy
22-May-17
So bowsite is turning into archerytalk with all these stupid threads.

I didn't read any of the comments, just going off of the thread title.

Don't feed the trolls.

From: Scrappy
22-May-17
Oops wait I just fed the trolls didn't I.

From: Will
22-May-17
Scrappy its fun though ;) It does always make me giggle a little when people say: they open to easy... then they fail to open. sigh.

I'm usually not so sarcastic and annoying on here... Must be the knowledge that I have to wait like 5 months for deer season now that turkey is done...

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