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Hunting and Federal Land transfer
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
WapitiBob 20-May-17
WapitiBob 20-May-17
Gerald Martin 21-May-17
WV Mountaineer 21-May-17
WapitiBob 21-May-17
WV Mountaineer 21-May-17
HDE 21-May-17
WapitiBob 21-May-17
kentuckbowhnter 21-May-17
Treeline 21-May-17
Aspen Ghost 22-May-17
NoWiser 22-May-17
willliamtell 22-May-17
WapitiBob 22-May-17
From: WapitiBob
20-May-17

WapitiBob's Link
What would it cost if all BLM and Forest Service became State Land.....

From the SL Tribune:

A long-standing agreement that has assured hunter access to Utah trust lands could be unraveling as state officials squabble behind closed doors over how much this access should cost taxpayers.

For the past two decades, hunters and anglers paid fees attached to their permits — now totaling $800,000 a year — for access to select lands owned by all Utahns, but managed for the benefit of schools. But now the Utah School and Institutional Trust Lands Administration (SITLA) board wants to more than double that rent, upping it by $1 to $3 million per year. The agency argues it could make that kind of money by leasing its holdings that harbor big game herds — revered hunting grounds such as the Book Cliffs and Tabby Mountain — to private outfitters.

With the Division of Wildlife Resources strongly pushing back, tensions have escalated recently as a 10-year memorandum of understanding between the agencies approaches expiration. Earlier this month, the SITLA board directed its staff to pursue more lucrative options for state lands used by hunters and to investigate forming what are called cooperative wildlife management units, which could lead to more exclusive land access in apparent violation of SITLA's agreement with the state.

A SITLA spokesman said the move was simply a contingency in case negotiations with Gov. Gary Herbert's office fail.

SITLA has every hope of renewing its access pact with the state, SITLA deputy director Kim Christy said. But, he said, "if an agreement is not reached, SITLA is obligated to explore options to secure fair market value."

"We are not trying to be combative, bullying or anything of that nature," Christy said. "We are trying to create a win-win outcome for both sportsmen and the education community."

While payments for hunting access go into an endowment supporting the state's public schools, many sports enthusiasts feel SITLA's threats to restrict that access defy decades of tradition and commercialize wildlife, which should be managed for all, not just those with the fattest wallets.

Some hunting groups liken SITLA's demand to extortion and they aren't the only ones upset with the state agency, which is tasked with managing 3.4 million acres for the benefit of Utah schools.

Sen. Jim Dabakis, D-Salt Lake City, said SITLA's stance shows the agency is "myopic and has no soul," and has lost sight of the public interest in pursuit of cash.

"I am tired of all this blackmail," Dabakis said. "To try to extort millions from the sports public or sell it off to private interest is outrageous."

The lawmaker said he intends to draft legislation to rein in some of SITLA's powers.

"They are making bad deals for the school children of Utah," Dabakis said. "The governor needs to take control because they are out of control." Trust lands, which the federal government ceded to Utah at statehood to be administered "in trust" for schools, might be publicly owned, but they are not managed for multiple use and public access as federal lands are.

Instead, the "quasi-governmental" SITLA is tasked to "optimize" revenue off these 3.4 million acres. And over the past decade, the agency has seen huge success generating wealth, doubling the school endowment to $2.2 billion and pushing its annual payments to schools above $50 million, covering slightly more than 1 percent of Utah's education budget.

== note:

A 1971 statute that guarantees hunter access to all state-owned land does not apply to trust lands because they are to be managed for the "exclusive benefit" of schools, according to a 2012 opinion by then-Attorney General Mark Shurtleff.

"SITLA has the option of prohibiting hunting, fishing, and trapping on trust lands altogether if it determines that such a decision is in the best interests of the trust," Shurtleff wrote.

The state of Utah, through SITLA, is charged with ensuring the trust gets maximum value for use of its lands for hunting, trapping and fishing, the opinion said. Failure to do so, Shurtleff wrote, could be viewed as a breach of SITLA's fiduciary duty.

The state Board of Education intends to hold SITLA to this obligation to receive full value in exchange for public hunting access ­— or to privatize access and get that value on the open market, according to Tim Donaldson, the board's school children's trust director.

"The U.S. Supreme Court has clearly said repeatedly that the state must get the full benefits of the trust lands ... to help fund schools, and may not divert those assets or benefits elsewhere without full fair compensation," wrote Donaldson in an e-mail.

From: WapitiBob
20-May-17
page 2:

Under the 10-year agreement set to expire Aug. 31, the state pays SITLA a sum that increases by 5 percent a year to secure its lands for fishing, hunting, trapping and wildlife viewing. But SITLA says the $800,000 payment due next year is not nearly enough, citing a recent appraisal that pegs the worth of that access at between $1.8 million and $3.9 million annually. That sum comes from SITLA-hired outside consultant Ken Clegg, an expert in managing private lands for wildlife. Clegg is the past president of the Utah Cooperative Wildlife Management Unit Association and is now the principal of the Springville-based firm Private Lands Consulting.

SITLA used his appraisal to win a $1 million appropriation from the Legislature last session, a funding request Gov. Gary Herbert refused to endorse. Utah Department of Natural Resources Director Mike Styler said Clegg's appraisal leans on faulty assumptions that inflate the value of hunting access.

"We thought it was accurate if this was private ground. The premise is flawed because it's not private ground, it's owned by the state of Utah," Styler said.

As such, he said, the land is not eligible for inclusion in cooperative wildlife management units, arrangements that allow private landowners to sell permits to hunt on their land for as much $15,000.

But according to Christy, the soon-to-expire agreement is now the only obstacle keeping large blocks of trust lands from being eligible for the cooperative wildlife management program.

Meanwhile, SITLA's counterparts in other Western states earn far less than what the Utah agency is demanding for hunter access. Colorado is at the high end at $1.3 million, while Idaho, Wyoming and Arizona charge nothing, according to Utah Division of Wildlife Resources Director Greg Sheehan.

Yet state wildlife officials offered SITLA $2 million a year in 1996, the year Utah overhauled its trust lands administration after a century of mismanagement that depleted its holdings and generated next to nothing for Utah schools.

But Don Peay, a wildlife policy power broker who was then a SITLA board member, negotiated that sum downward to $200,000, a payment described as a "necessary evil" by sports advocates.

"They latched onto us because there is an easy mechanism to raise money," said Bill Christensen, Utah-based regional director of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. "It's extortion because they tell us, 'Pay us or else.' ... I'm afraid the SITLA board is getting greedy."

On Thurday, SITLA sought to hammer out a deal with Herbert's staffers, who insist the state payment should be capped at $1 million. "We are hopeful by end of August we can have this buttoned down," Christy said. The governor's office declined to comment, except to say it was working closely with SITLA staff.

Brian Maffly covers public lands for The Salt Lake Tribune. Maffly can be reached at [email protected] or 801-257-8713.

21-May-17
Remind me again why any hunters are in favor of incorporating Utah's wildlife management and land use policies to other states in the west....

Thanks for the link WapitiBob

21-May-17
I'l start by saying that we all can agree that government spending practices are the problem affecting public owned and, public accessed federal land in this country. Non debatable. What I'm having a hard time understanding is people keep trying to paint this ugly picture about states stealing what is truly our public lands. State trust lands are not public lands. I realize that people who share your opinion tend to lump all lands into the "our public land" arena. Which, in turn makes it easy for you to point this out like the state is doing the pubic an injustice by charging them to use state trust land. What's even more outrages is that you now are using an example of the state taking measures to not have to sell state trust land, as an injustice. What would it take to make you happy concerning these trust lands. If these lands do not generate ample school funding by use practices, they will generate the revenue through selling it.

You have groups so politically bent that resource development on public lands is fought hand and tooth. With no thought of conservation minded practices being 'worth the risk". It's taboo in majority of their membership, regardless of what their mission statement says. These same groups then pull a 24/7 around the clock political campaign on every internet hunting forum to get you to believe that only one party is after the land. These same groups complain and, use examples of states selling school trust land in the past to say that is what is going to happen to all "public land" if they get it. Now, a supporter of one of these groups says that a state charging ample funds for use of their trust lands, to keep from having to sell it, is a bad thing? State and federal budgets need funding. How in the world then do you propose funding since you have been against every example of either entity trying to do so?

To be clear, I am not for selling public land. I'm not for giving it to the states. I'm for figuring this out so this won't be an issue. I'd seriously like to hear what you or anyone else in your corner proposes. I don't want to argue. I want to know how you justify these stances. I promise if you give a serious answer, I'll listen quietly. But, right now this looks like the same old crap from a party pusher. No offense meant.

From: WapitiBob
21-May-17
You can't get out of your truck to take a leak on NM State land without a permit. No camping at all. No hunting unless the Game dept buys an easement, which for the current inventory is 1 million a year. Add all the NM BLM and National Forest to that State Land inventory and you won't be camping in the Gila, Lincoln, etc. nor will you be hunting there without a gigantic increase in tag fees. That is, if the Land Commissioner allows it. He could trade what is now the Lincoln NF for some office buildings.

21-May-17
EF, we do to. 85% of our county property taxes goes to the school board. Our school levee equals 11 million dollars a year. Currently, there are no fees to use state WMA's or state forests. They have began to charge for camping at one NF campground. That's fine as it hired a guy to police the thing. It was getting trashy and rowdy with so many people coming to camp creating and leaving their mess. Money well spent.

From: HDE
21-May-17
I wouldn't use NM to compare anything to. We are so backwards and always at least 25 years behind everyone else...

From: WapitiBob
21-May-17
Colorado: State trust lands are not open to public use except when leased to a specific party (private or public). Any interested party may apply for a recreation lease on state trust land. Common uses include hunting, fishing, hiking and horseback riding. "Because state trust land is held in trust and leased to generate revenue, it is not open for general public use." The only hunting on State Land in CO is land the CPW paid for. "Public access for wildlife-related recreation on 500,000 acres of State Trust Land (STL) is made possible through the Public Access Program, a lease agreement between the State Land Board and Colorado Parks & Wildlife. Signs at individual properties describe allowed uses, rules and time frames for public use."

Wyoming: "... Second, off-road vehicle use, overnight camping, and open fires are prohibited on these state lands."

21-May-17
if the states get it we wont be able to hunt it anymore, period.

From: Treeline
21-May-17
WapitiBob beat me to it. Colorado is one of the few western states that do not allow access for hunting. Most currently do. Would really like to change that system!

From: Aspen Ghost
22-May-17
School lands are school lands. They were established to generate income to run public schools. They weren't established for public recreation. The management of school lands is entirely different than the management of other state owned lands.

From: NoWiser
22-May-17
Aspen, you mean other state lands like Wildlife Management Areas in New Mexico (the Sargents for example) where nonresidents are not allowed to hunt?

Any way you slice it the transfer of federal lands would be the biggest kick to the nuts this government has delivered to it's citizens in generations.

From: willliamtell
22-May-17
I get that State Public Trust Lands are supposed to financially benefit state schools. Take the debacle unfolding in Elliot over in Oregon and you have the precedents for a true tragedy - loss of public (last time I checked, "state" was still public) land. There would seem to be at least two solutions that wouldn't gut public access to these lands: 1) charge a state lands fee and attach it to every hunting license sold. In this increasingly commodified world, most hunters get that they have to pay to play on this piece of land. With that should come broad access to these lands (currently not always the case). 2) Change the State legislation to get rid of the "highest and best" (or similar) language in State lands charters that goes hand in hand with private sale (a la Oregon) or private lease (potentially in Utah) of these lands. There appear to be some private industry folks on this website who don't mind if this land ends up private. I'd guess that aside from those one or two, the overwhelming majority of hunters strongly oppose privatization of public land - PERIOD. While we're at it, these lands need to be properly managed. I can't count how many overgrazed pieces of public land, state or whatever, I have hunted on. Instead of maximizing animal units and trashing the resource, they should be evaluating range trend and condition and managing both so they are improving and or good to excellent. It isn't rocket science.

From: WapitiBob
22-May-17
"The management of school lands is entirely different than the management of other state owned lands. "

Not in the West. All our State Lands were created to generate income for schools.

State Trust lands are not "pubic lands" in the western states.

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