Sleeping Bag-Talk me out of Impulse buy
Elk
Big Agnes has some bags on sale this weekend. I am too old to suffer and I am looking at an extra warm, lightweight bag. Their Crosho bag is a -20F bag, although it does not have the pad sleeve. I can pick it up for less than $500. Carry weight is 3 lbs. 850 Water repellent down.
Prior to this offer, I had been looking at Western Mountaineering. But I was ready to pull the trigger (And cry as I look at my wallet)
I have a Lost Ranger bag, but sometimes I get cold. Crappy nights eat on me over the long haul. I would rather have a bag too warm and vent as necessary vs freezing my @ss off.
Thoughts?
If your backpacking let this go. Better lighter versions for just a little more. Feathered friends etc
Agreed. Much better options out there. Especially the waterproof down idea. Paying more for negligible performance increase.
Hi; I have never hunted elk where there were not a few pine trees around! No need for a pad just snuggle up to a pine tree the needles on the ground are better tan any pad you might carry, just a thought to save you some weight
What bag are you using now? I did a lot of research on it and his year the top value warm bag is the REI magma 10. It was on their anniversary for 25% off for a total of about $260 and weighs less than2lbs!
Ole Coyote- My back kills me. I have a 2.5" BA pad after several of POS thin pads. But when available, I do lay down a bed of pine boughs before I stake tent as it helps with cold and lumpy ground.
ww-I current have BA Lost Ranger 15. When it reaches 15F, I am cold. I can handle low 20's in that bag and that is with a fleece bag liner. If I drop dough on a new bag, I want to go several temps ratings lower for extra comfort margin.
Wiggys if you want to stay warm.
I just purchased a Big Ag 15 degree bag, with water prepel down, and a great insul neck gater and hood and lots of foot rooms for less than 200$. If colder I put it inside a bivy sack and if I need to be warmer, I wear wool longs and top and always a knit hat. A insulated ground pad but outside of the bag. This bag has the down on top and bottom.
I agree, $500 is a lot of money to spend on a bag.
Surf- Wiggy's are warm, but they are definitely not a backpack bag. That is a base camp bag when you want your buddys to fire up the stove while you roll over and go back to sleep!
Keep saving for the WM and make sure you have a legit pad like the NeoAir XTherm.
I have a Big Agnes Bag, forget which one, and I like it, but I wouldn't spend $500 on any bag. I think if you look around you can find a really good bag for less. Good luck.
Big Agnes bags are known not to reach their temp ratings. I've never had a Western Mountaineering bag that didn't reach its temp rating.
^^ Yep, I've had a couple buddies dump their BA bags. If thats all you can afford- Ok then....but from buddies commentary that -20 bags true rating is probably +20
And don't get me started on the Cabelas XPG's which are in the same category....my buddy Tims XPG 650 fill lofts up to a whopping 1 1/2" after a couple years...froze his azz off last year.
When the temps get down to the "ratings" you'll wish Big Aggie herself was in that bag wid ya......
What Backpack Hunter and Beendare said. BA are "survivable" ratings, not comfort ratings. IMO there are 20 degrees difference (being kind) in similarly rated BA and WM bags. My experience has been WM bags "comfort" ratings are normally right in there or better. And I have some thin blood for sure..... Money? When it's 2am and your teeth are chattering you'd reach into that wallet and pull out whatever it took to be warm, comfortable, and go back to sleep like the big baby ya are.... =D
Buy a light weight quilt like a Kifaru Woobie to cover up your existing bag at night, lot less hit on your wallet and gives you more versatility and something to wrap up in around camp or glassing etc
Z stop running so much and put some insulation on your bones and you will stay warmer!
Be hydrated, don't drink to much before bed, no alcohol, eat snickers bar or cliff bar type snack 30 minutes prior to bed, wear a skull cap, and no clothes on in bag sans some ski vies regardless of who tells you otherwise. Nine years in army in Alaska, NWTC trained, and tested sleeping bags at cold region test center fort Greeley, AK
Z Barebow, I have the Big Agnes "Pomer Hoit UL 0" which is a zero-degree rated bag with 850 DownTek insulation. It weighs 2.5 lbs, and has the half-sleeve bottom for their air core pad. I bought it for colder weather hunts. Comparing it to my Western Mountaineering "Ultralite" series bag, which has a 20 degree rating and weighs 1.75 lbs, the Big Agnes is WAY warmer, as I guess it should be. The WM bag packs much smaller than the BA bag of course. I'm perfectly happy with the BA bag for cold hunts, but will use the WM when temps are milder, and when pack weight and space are more critical.
I have two WM bags and they are amazing. A guy over on Rockslide is selling a WM Apache for 400 obo. I have the apache and I use it for winter camping her in Ontario with no problems.
Be hydrated, don't drink to much before bed, no alcohol, eat snickers bar or cliff bar type snack 30 minutes prior to bed, wear a skull cap, and no clothes on in bag sans some ski vies regardless of who tells you otherwise. Nine years in army in Alaska, NWTC trained, and tested sleeping bags at cold region test center fort Greeley, AK
I'm with Old Goat, a woobie would fix your problem for a lot less coin.
I like the Woobie just as much as the next guy, but you guys are advocating 4lbs 14oz for a sleeping bag and blanket that will get you to about 15 degrees or so......seems a bit heavy, and not very space efficient for a 15 degree temp rating.
Pigsticker so what bag would recommend?? So your also saying where the bear minimum in your sleeping ?? Thanks for a reply.
Has anyone tried the Kuiu bags? Are the ratings accurate?
Ratings are not often honest. He's cold....so apparently a 15 degree bag does not work for him. Sure, he can spend $600 for a new bag, which may or may not work for him right now. Or he could carry another pound or two. Not everyone has an unlimited budget for hunting gear, or is single, so that nobody else has a vote in how he spends his money.
Lucky Leo, I use a marmot helium and consider it a three season bag. There are better out there and there are worse but everyone is different when it comes to cold. If I were advising someone who is self identified cold natured for back packing the WM and Feathered Friends would be my recommendation. How much is a good night sleep worth$$$$
I had a BA down bag with the pad sleeve on the bottom. It was rated to -20. Bought it for a sheep hunt in the Chugach. It probably never got below +10 and I froze my butt off. I would not recommend this type of bag. I returned mine to REI as soon as I arrived back in Dallas.
You guys talked me off the ledge. When I buy a different bag, it will be the one I want and not the one that happens to be on sale.
Great discussion guys! Keep it going. For those who have never done backpack hunts, here is my 2 sense. It is pretty easy to talk theory behind a PC. It is MUCH different when you are solo & deep in the backcountry and mother nature is making you her "bitch"!
"Has anyone tried the Kuiu bags? Are the ratings accurate?"
Very little experience with a KUIU bag (15degr), but in the little time I used it, it seemed to meet its temp rating. Personally, for the price you can get a proven bag for the same price or a bit less expensive.
Z-Bow, I am sure many of these guys have spent their fair share of cold nights on the mountain. As for me much of my backpacking was done in Alaska. A good bag, sleeping pad, and preparation before bed and you should sleep well. In cold weather ideally you never want to get out of your bag at night so that you do not have to reheat the bag. Remember the bag is just insulation that keeps your body heat inside the bag.
PigSticker- Funny, I pee more at night at home than I do in the mtns. Maybe it is the sodium laden MH meals that have me retaining water. If the urge strikes, an old Gatorade bottle beats crawling out in the cold.
No one likes Marmot? I love my Marmot Helium bag. You can add alot of warmth by stuffing it in a lightweight Bivy Sack for not much $$ and weight.
Oldgoat, pigsticker, and bad karma got it. A Woobie will fix your problem for a lot less than a $600 sleeping bag. And it serves as multiple purpose gear for hunting times too. God Bless
Z- "PigSticker- Funny, I pee more at night at home than I do in the mtns. Maybe it is the sodium laden MH meals that have me retaining water. If the urge strikes, an old Gatorade bottle beats crawling out in the cold"
Had some guys I was camping by and hanging out with turn me onto the Gatorade bottle trick, they forgot to mention not to spill it on the sleeping bag though! Had to make an unexpected trip to town and the laundromat!
Some of you guys kill me. How in the world do you chase elk all over the dang mountain for a month, yet can't find the energy to get out of your sleeping quarters to take a leak? It really drives home not to buy used gear. I hear so many of the same guys complain about synthetics stinking after a couple days in them and I'm starting to get an idea of why its worse for some than others.
WV Mountaineers, it is not about being to lazy. It about hunting all and being exhausted in max temps for your bag and not having to get out and then reheat the bag.
No. It's about being. lazy. We aren't talking about Alaska in winter for a good percentage of these guys. We are talking about September nights in the lower 48 elk hunting. That ain't life and death. That's a decision. It's their stuff. Do as they want. But, it can't be blamed on something it isn't. God Bless men
Maybe i'm a cheater but if you put a couple of those pocket warmers inside your sleeping bag, by your feet helps the most, really makes a difference. makes a 40 degree bag 20 degree real quick.
WV Mountaineer a little judgemental don't ya think.
I just throw some more wood in the stove then get out of my bag to pee, haven't tried it yet, but since I have a flooorless I could dig a little pit in the right spot and hang it out the side of the bag!
I don't look at the stated temp ratings as much as the grade of down and the overall weight of the fill, as a better way to compare apples-to-apples. Also one big difference with the sleeved BA bags is they put all the fill on top, none in the bottom. So with that design you need a real good pad to prevent heat loss below.
Why spend the big bucks on a sleeping bag when you can get several for free? Go to a Forest Service fire camp that has been around a few days, and check through their garbage. They will have a bunch of slightly used bags you can surely just haul off. Tell them you want them for bedding critters. They will think you mean on the farm. Now the best part is yet to come. You can leave those paper bags in the forest when you are finished. The squirrels will find a good use of them making their nests. Now you are bedding critters just like you said, and since it is paper you are not littering.
Scoot, if it makes you feel better, you can rest assured that we won't stay in the same tent if we ever hunt together. FWIW, I didn't imply you were a lazy person altogether. I said you chose to do what you do versus get up and, out in the cold to do it. I also said before and, you chose to over look; it's your stuff. Do as you wish. I know why it's being done.
Pigsticker, I'm not being judgmental either. The day I subside to the urge to piss out of my bag in a bottle, in my tent, based on a "want" versus a necessity, is the day I'll personally say I WAS too lazy to get up and pee. I really don't see where anyone could say otherwise.
"I know why it's being done."
Perfect, thank you. Sounds like you are a whole lot smarter than me.
LOL!
Pretty sure Z doesn't give a rip about how anybody takes a whiz in or out of their bag/tent.... personally I'm not packin' in a gatoraide bottle for, well, anything really...... YMMV.... heheheh... I've slept in bags that it did you good to get out of them and move around some to warm up....
One caveat. My mountain hunting is pretty much done at the end of September. Can't imagine any other reason to be out there after that..... a few MT and ID hunts that were still in the low teens..... single digits a few times. I plan on not being there for 0....
WM bags are kick azz bags, I have yet to hear one complaint from anyone about them other than their wallet whining. Certainly none when it's cold and dark. There are a few that compare. But a few. FF and some others, mostly niche gear. On a bit more budget Marmot makes some real good bags (have some friends with Pinnacles and Helium, good bags if you're OK with full mummy) and their comfort numbers are a little more in line with real comfort IMO and not somebody with maple sap for blood.
This gear IMO is all backpack gear and/or flying with camp. Not just your stuff and relying on an outfitter for camp.... just you and ALL your camp. If you're driving with base camp or with horses..... you're gear isn't limited like that, it opens up lots of other options. WRT camping gear.... ultra light, top performance, bombproof, packs small..... normally oz/lb are bought at a price. Otherwise 5 or 6 army surplus wool blankets wrapped in an oil tarp would likely do the job pretty well.
How expensive? That's up to the buyer..... Me? Personally? I see it as an investment because I'm not going to use it just once. Much of this if taken care of will last me my lifetime. Ya can't take it wid ya.... and those you leave it to won't spend it like you'd want anyway =D.... I'd rather be old and broke smiling back at some incredible memories than sitting there old and fat with a wallet to match and wishing I had the spirit for adventures I'd wish I'd done......
Buy a quilt. Won't ever go back to a sleeping bag. Lighter, warmer, easier to turn over in ...
I don't understand the degree ratings on most bags...I always wonder are they comfort ratings or barely keep you alive ratings?
Since we have went down the rabbit hole. Here is why I am ok with peeing in a bottle vs getting out of my tent at o dark thirty. This pic is from a Sept hunt (MT 2103). I would bury my water bottles in my pack (Overnight) so they wouldn't freeze solid. (I was already wearing most of my clothes so I couldn't use them!) It took almost an hour of wearing my frozen boots before I could cinch them up. This was ~ day 3 of horsecrap weather and the coldest morning. My guess is upper teens. Rolling out of your bag, slipping on boots/clothes just to pee (again) is less than fun. Welcome to an aging prostate!
TD captures it. When I look at gear, it is for multi-night backcountry hunts where the only person I can depend on is ME. (And my gear choices) I will put choices to the test in Wyoming this fall. (Including my pee bottle! LOL!) I have included a link to a Gritty Bowmen podcast. If you don't want to listen to full podcast, fast forward to 31:00. Bowsiters aren't they only ones to leap into the rabbit hole!
Boots are frozen solid from days of being soaked.
Boots are frozen solid from days of being soaked.
For some reason, the pic didn't attach.
Jason/Scott- You guys know me so well. I am a waste of space cream puff. In fact, I think I just pulled a muscle as I got out of my bean bag chair to recharge my laptop.
Z, get the helz out that bag you lazy arse.
Al joking aside WV Mountaineer, the said he gets cold and that crappy nights eat into his nights. He wanted sleeping bag info and I wanted to make sure that he was doing the right thing to maximize Whatever bag that he was using because the previous recommendations were along the bags that I would have recommended. What you failed to aknoowledge was that the man said he was getting cold. More people die from exposure in moderate temps than zero so let's say dude was cold all day, killed and elk or to the long way back to camp in the dark and divides to crash with limited nutrition and is borderline dehydrated and his bag is less than adequate it could make for a long cold night at best. I am not saying that he would die but it would be the first person found in their sleeping bag. I think we as hunters do some pretty dangerous stuff and much of that is solo in the mountains so we plan and conduct research to mitigate the risk as much as possible.
I think it's safe to say this thread was spurred by a lot defensive talk and misunderstandings.
I didn't miss anyone's point. I didn't fail to acknowledge anyone's opinion. I stated how I felt and, it went from there. Have a guy not wanting to get out of your tent at 3am, when it's zero with a 25 mph wind, spill a bottle of piss all over the place, and you'll start to see my lack of understanding on this matter. And, that did happen. In MY tent. An hour after I got my lazy butt up, put on my boots and walked out in the mess to pee. So, I'll never understand it in any situation that isn't life threatening.
Z, look into a doobie if the woobie leaves you hesitant. 3.6 ounces of apex versus 2.5. I'm not sure if Kifaru even makes them anymore. Even if they did, I'd look into buying the materials and having a local shop just sew a woobie with no head home or, a heavier woobie with no head hole. Much cheaper anyways. Also, a finished quilt with 3.6 Apex, 94 inches long by 58-59 inches wide, is going to come in at roughly 12-14 ounces in a stuff sack. Good, lightweight, heat booster that will serve multiple jobs on your back pack hunts. And, it'll beat a silk bag liner to death in added heat.
Good luck and God Bless
