How to stiffen my Arrow
Equipment
I have an Mathews Switchback. I am shooting it comfortably with the limbs maxed out at approx 70#s. My arrows are Carbon Express Mayhems 350's cut at 30 inches spine rated at 337. When shooting 100 grain points the arrows are doing great and holding tight groups at 40+ yds. My current total arrow weight 436 gr with a 10% FOC. I will be Elk hunting this year so I was experimenting with beefing up my arrow (esp the % FOC). I went to a 200 gr point but now the arrow spline seems to be too weak and I am hitting left. (I shoot left-handed) Note: I have about 1.5 inch of excess arrow I could trim which would make my arrows 28.5 inches and I still would be able to shoot my broadheads and/or I could slightly reduce my draw poundage. So, My question to the experts is: Will cutting 1.5 inches off of my arrow, stiffen the arrow enough to carry a 200 grain point weight? And is poundage reduction a good option?
I'm no expert on arrows or really anything for that matter :) but I dare say I really don't think you need to change your setup to blow through elk. Sounds like your total arrow setup is going to be north of 400gr with the 100gr tip, and if you're anywhere even close to 450 shooting 70lbs you've got all you need. I think you're just creating headache for yourself, as well as creating more arrows that are different than your standard deer arrow. Which starts getting annoying when you run low on one and not the other etc.
To answer your question: cut your arrow down, add a 50 gr brass insert, and shoot the same broadhead. Use this for both deer and elk.
That will give you everything you're looking for.
+1 HDE, that should do it.
Get some baby oil and apply generously... slowly...... ummm cough cough... your arrow.
I agree w/ apauls, but if you have an itch that must be scratched. I wouldn't be hell bent on the 200gr bh. I'd try out some 125's (far more common in a pinch vs 200gr) and if it seems a little underspined lop off 1". I'm not a big fan of cutting hunting arrows on the money so to speak, but sounds like you have plenty of excess. If your spine holds up, in theory, you should see tighter down range groups w/ the increase FOC.
There are so many factors that determine whether your arrow will be stiff enought I doubt you'll know for sure unless you cut down one arrow and try it. Personally I don't think losing 1.5" is going to make much difference in stiffness, but I suppose it all depends how close to the limit of spine you happen to be right now.
I also agree that you could stick with the 100 grain head for elk; however, certainly don't fault you for desiring to increase the BH weight and my preference is not a 100 grain head.
Have you tried paper tuning with a 200 grain head? Maybe there is some fine tuning that is needed?
Carl
Without checking a chart I would say he is at the least on the borderline w/ a .340 spined arrow tipped w/ 200gr at 30" pushed w/ 70lbs.
RL I shoot the same bow with the same specs and when I switched to a 125 grain head I couldn't tune my .340's. You can do some of the things mentioned or buy some new 250 or 200 spine arrows. I'm getting good results out of 200 spine gold tip kinetics. You can leave your arrows long enough that they are out past your riser and you can shoot your heavy heads.
I would first try a 150 or 125 grain broadhead before I started cutting arrows.
Your current set up is plenty for elk, with a good solid broad head. Have killed a pile of elk with 425 gr. arrows off a 60# longbow so you already have way more than that off your compound!
My heavy setups are up to 300 gr. points on stiff arrows that tip the scales at over 700 grains total arrow weight. Those are for really big critters like bison or buffalo. Way over kill for deer or elk, though.
It is definitely not a bad thing to up your FOC and overall arrow weight for bigger critters. I would definitely look at 125 and 150 gr points rather than trying to go all the way up to a 200 gr point weight, though. You will have a significantly better choice of broad heads in the 125 to 150 gr. weight range vs. 200's.
Since you said "spline" it does appear you need help!
What is your draw length? With that set up a .300 spine would be easy. Otherwise cut your arrows as short as possible and add just enough weight up front to keep it in tune. Poundage reduction is not a bad thing either. Accuracy is most important.
Your original set up is all you will need to hunt Elk, that is as long as your not shooting a 2" cut Rage or similar broadhead.
Just cut them to 28.5 and shoot the 200 grains up front. You will be fine. I do agree though your old set up would be fine too. I shoot a 28" .400 spine out of a 67# Mathews and I draw 27.5"s and I shoot 175 grain head plus the insert weighs 12 grains. Scooby
Thanks guys I want and need your info and advice so keep it coming, Thanks for the grammer check wildwilderness, I have not bow hunted in over 30 yrs. Back then I was shooting a Bear Polar LTD (instinct shooting no sights). Now I am having a blast learning and catching up on the new technology and terminology.
I will probably will stay with my current setup and try to tune up to the 125gr-ers . But, I got the bug to try other setups. If my budget allows I may try to pick up some heaver spined arrows. Then, my next 2 part question is: How easy or hard is it to get your arrow too stiff with my kind of setup? and Is an over spined arrow fixed or tuned by basically adding weight to the front-end via inserts and point weight?
DL 28 inches, oad drop rest, just bought 125 gr G5 broadheads but have not opened them yet.
I'd shoot some 125gr fps before I tore open a new pack of 125gr bh's. I hope they are strikers or montec CS tho.
I'd say it will take some effort to be overspined if you continue to use 30" arrows at 70#. Even if you do find yourself in a situation where on paper you are over spined, you may never know it. Plenty of people shoot over spined without issue. So to be blunt, better to be over spines than under, relatively speaking. And yes, you weaken your spine with tip weight.
I shot the same bow as you.. 29 draw@70 Arrow was 410gr with the 100 gr head and I killed elk and bear with it. If your shooting well now and are comfortable, your setup well be fine. The last 2 elk I killed was with a little faster bow than the switchback, but with a 400gr arrow and the same head I was using with my Switchback. Last elk I killed with the switchback was 54 yds broadside. Arrow hit right behind the right shoulder and stopped after it hit the far side humerus,, shattering it. Ed
I can't believe no one has advised you take a Viagra. I hear it works wonders.
Sorry I couldn't resist. God Bless
WV mountaineer beat me to it!
Lesson learned: A stiff arrow is better than a weak one !! Thanks to all who replied.
Maybe one of those blue pills glued into your nock?
Weight at the back of the arrow will stiffen the spine so you could go up in point weight. Not sure what one of those pills weighs but it would definitely stiffen your arrow...
As a few others have said, you could drop your draw weight using those same arrows and go up in point weight. 70 # is way more than you need. Modern compounds are extremely efficient and fast - amazing, really.
A lower draw weight will really help to get the bow drawn when you are blowing your lungs out after running uphill for a mile or so at 11,000' to try and cut them off. Will probably improve your shooting accuracy as well.
A 50# compound is more than adequate for any critter in NA with a well tuned arrow and solid, sharp broad head.
For comparison - I shot a buffalo with a 57# longbow at about 25 yards and the arrow blew completely through and stuck in the ground over 20 yards on the other side. Broke a rib going in and another one going out. My arrow was set up at 650 grains with a 250 grain, 2-blade broad head up front tuned to that bow. Guarantee that about any 50# compound will generate more speed with the same weight arrow as that longbow! Have shot quite a few elk with 425 grain arrows off 55-60# longbows using big 3-blade Snuffers and have had a number of complete pass-throughs.
Good luck!
Lots of good advise here. One thing to keep in mind is by adding say a 100 grain brass insert or plug glued in directly behind your insert you will add spine to your arrow shaft and with the 100 grain Broadhead achieve the FOC/added weight your looking for. The 100gn brass inserts for FMJ's are 2 inches long, then add the hit insert and its now 3 inches deep so your spine will stiffen like you had cut the arrow off 3 inches. Now if you can take an inch off the arrow itself you made it even stiffer.
weight on the back of your arrow will also increase spine; i.e. lighted nocks. However it will also decrease your FOC, which you lack with 100s.
IF your dead set on shooting the same arrow i would try to cut one off and test it, but you would still possibly be under spined.
i would much rather be on the stiff side, i believe its very hard to shoot to stiff of a shaft, and i believe a stiffer shaft is better for hunting - takes impact, and transfers energy better - just my opinion.
If i were you i would go to a .300 spine.
i shoot a 28" draw, 70#. i shoot 506 grain arrow, (actual weight) 175 grain broad head with a 20 grain footer over the tip of the shaft. flies like a dart. Gold tip expedition hunter .300 spine. 28.5" inches i believe.
How does weight on the back of your arrow stiffen spine?
Interesting bullbuster mentioned lighted nocks. I have some that weigh 20 gr and they lengthen the arrow by 3/4 of an inch. (Nock Out brand I got them as a clearance item at Wall-Mart so I am skeptical about them) The only way I see to use them is to cut 3/4 inch off the arrow. . Any pros or cons about cutting the rear of the arrow off and/or shooting with the longer lighted nocks?
Just go back to the 100gr. head and you'll be fine. My last 6 bulls have been at 70# with CX Mayhem Hunter 350's and a 100gr. VPA. Blew right through several of them and broken a couple of shoulders along the way. YOUR 1st SET UP WAS FINE! Go with what was working! Here is a photo of almost your same 1st set-up blowing right through both front shoulder blades of a bull. Down and dead in less than 30 yds. 1/4 to me shot, punched front of facing shoulder and out the back of the opposite shoulder. (NOTE: I wasn't aiming for this spot, but clipped a small limb and it worked. :-/ )
"Maybe one of those blue pills glued into your nock? Weight at the back of the arrow will stiffen the spine so you could go up in point weight. Not sure what one of those pills weighs but it would definitely stiffen your arrow..."
That may work, however. If the arrow spine is stiffened for more than 4 hours he is advised to see a pro shop.
Yeah, I think I saw a commercial last night that would help this....??? They did mention the 4 hour warning, too. May limit your , ahhh, shooting time, unfortunately.
Seems to certainly validate the "can't be too stiff'" theory.
Shoot your deer set up and spend the time you WASTE trying to shoot a heavier arrow to getting into better shape....
You can figure shaft length out yourself with the free 5 day trail of shaft selector. http://www.pinwheelsoftware.com/
Just plug in your bow, arrow specs etc. Remember to turn on the correct filters (hunting etc). The play with shaft length and tip weight. I like to be a little stiff but in the green. Has work good for me for 5-6 bows/arrows.
HDE has you on the right track. Might try GT 7597. They ate a bit stiffer. Good luck
with a center shot compound there is no such thing as to stiff a spine if tuned correctly.
