We face a major concern??
Equipment
Damage to equipment while traveling is absurd. What can we do to prevent it?? Is it happening at TSA checks, baggage handling? IDK. What can we do to prevent it? IDK. My thought is to have the hunter present upon TSA inspection and not have it behind closed doors. The hunter watches the inspection and then the equipment is locked back up for the duration of the trip? IDK. How can we make this happen? IDK. We are so susceptible to sabotage the way it is now, it appears. To spend thousands of dollars, plan for years, train, practice, and have it all spoiled do to an "anti-hunter" is a crippling thing to have happen. Could Trump Jr. help? lol Arriving at your destination with fingers crossed is no way to travel for the trip of a life time. What are your opinions as to what can be done to prevent this vandalism?
Ship your gear before your trip.
Drive. Ship gear. Be inconspicuous. Ditch the bloodlusty hunting stickers and camo. Go incognito, no one bothers golfers and guitarists. Try to avoid flying through the coastal liberal cesspools. Have a contingency plan, better yet, two. Say a prayer.
Use a hard case with NON-TSA locks. if they want to inspect you unlock it for them then lock it up yourself. Do it all the time with firearms while flying.
Good questions loesshillsarcher. Last year I flew from NC to UT and had equipment stolen from my checked baggage.
I was smart enough to bring my binos, spotting scope, and other valuables in my carry on but was dumb enough to leave my hunting license in my checked baggage.
The thief took two knives, one great little tactical flashlight, survival items like water purifier, firestarters, and even a spare bowstring. All totaled up it cost me $200 or so plus the major hassle of buying it all again in a hurry. The thief left me with what appeared to be a prescription energy bar. This leads me to believe that a TSA person took my stuff (possibly by accident) because someone else's energy bar was left in my baggage.
It appeared to me that the person simply took small, lightweight, valuable items because they could and not because they were anti-hunters. Nothing on my bow (takedown recurve) was messed with at all. There was no reason to believe that it was motivated by hate but rather just greed.
I've been told that the easiest way to prevent this is to declare and fly with a handgun in checked baggage. Seriously, everybody seems to be scared of a handgun so they are WAY less likely to mess with baggage containing a handgun. Just like what wildwilderness said above.
I disagree with the incognito point. I'm a hunter, I'm proud of it, and if that makes someone angry enough to vandalize, I'll address that.
I just read BIgPizzaMan's thread and thought what I would do if that had happened to me. I think I would sue the airline for not only the cost of the bow, but would sue for the cost of the entire trip! Chances are if I was in his shoes, the trip would have been ruined. I'm a lefty with a long draw length, so the chances of the outfitter having a bow to fit me I'm thinking would be slim to none. And even if by chance he had a bow I could use, it would not be MINE and would rob me of the pleasure of killing an animal with MY bow! So in essence, the trip would have been ruined in my eyes. I could not tell you how PO'd I would be if this happened to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(
I fly with a black SKB double bow case. I wrote on it with a bright yellow marker "Golf Clubs". I tend to not wear camo when I fly so I don't get "labeled" a hunter and my bags targeted. Goodluck, Mike
My buddy takes a hard golf bag case on his rifle hunts. He can fit a rifle and most of his clothes in it. Couple of "Ping" or "Nike" stickers don't hurt.
I like shipping when it works. You get confirmation your stuff arrived before you leave so you have some time to make arrangements if something is lost and if you have a buddy or the outfitter on the other end, they can open it up and look for damage.
I lost all my gear and clothes on a airline change in Alberta. Wasn't the airline's fault. A guy had bought a brand new Cabelas duffle just like I did and he grabbed mine off the luggage claim and took off for a week of fishing and camping. Luckily he stopped to grab something out of his bag, realized what happened and made it back to the airport just in time to trade me.
I have no dog in this fight cause I dont have any plans on flying. But I do have a question that will sound dumb to most. What in the he!! does IDK mean?
I don't know. What does it mean? /:^)
In the hungry years you used to stand there while they opened and went thru your bags. Ridiculously slow so they did away with it. It will never come back. You may not like my solution but I'm with Florida Mike. When I travel nobody can determine what my bag contains. It's an SKB case which holds my bow and hunting clothes.
I would rather practice with my archery gear right up to the day I leave so shipping it before kinda blows. I have shipped prior before however, on a polar bear hunt. I also using a SKB bow case. Is that what you use Charlie? If so, how can nobody determine what your bag contains? I don't follow that. I feel like we are all vulnerable to entry of our bags somewhere along the travel process no matter what locks we are using. But I agree that if you have your own locks then maybe you can be involved more so with the inspection. And possibly get a name of the person inspecting it if you cannot watch directly? This is a serious concern in my mind. So please do not make snide remarks in response to the topic.
I can't drive and shipping gear is not an option for DIY hunts. I have to fly with my gear, always have, and never had any lost bags or vandalized. Only held up for ransom charged by the airline for oversize ON MY RETURN TRIP. I can avoid specific (American Airlines) carriers in the future.
But this recent trend of outright vandalism is disturbing. IMO it is behavior across the board that is being justified by much of the left (antis are always liberal leftists) for political reasons..... Resist movements, etc. The left having lost what they thought was their solely bestowed right of power resort to such tactics and rationalize uncivil even criminal behavior as being "just" or for their "cause". Whatever.
WRT being there when they go through your checked bags..... they only do that if you are checking in a firearm, I don't think it's an option otherwise. Then it is orange tagged, locked (I believe on inspected firearms cases you can lock them back up with non-TSA locks?) and at least theoretically not to be opened again by anyone, TSA, airlines etc. If you aren't gun hunting it's a real big hassle to have to drag along a gun.
Putting in a handgun is not an option for most any International hunt I believe, Africa, Canada, etc. Flying with a firearm you have to declare it and they like to see firearms in an "approved" case. Other than hiding your bow in a rolling duffel or golf club case I don't know what to make of it.
Again, up this point I've had no issues with my big ol Kalispel aluminum bow case. It looks more rifle case than bow..... I even have a big bright "Professional Bowhunter" sticker on it. Maybe so far just lucky.... IDK..... The recent incidents seem to have happened on International flights? Maybe that in itself is an/the issue. I've had my issues with airports in Canada before. Pretty rude once they see you don't speak French.....or maybe just being American. Throw in being a hunter? Extra rude when they don't explain why....
There are few areas in most airports that are not under surveillance. If they wanted to catch a vandal/thief they have the means to do so if they wanted to make the effort to make things right. Easy to track where and when a bag came through and go over the video to see what exactly happened. Again, if they wanted to.
Unless the airlines themselves crack down on it..... I'm not sure what hunters can do to change things or reassure it won't be tolerated by employees or staff. Humans being humans there will always be something or someone rather, that will be an issue. But this has a different feel to it and seems to be building, not coming under control.
I think individually airlines are not going to listen..... hopefully if we can contact hunting orgs and they in turn start officially bringing this up the airlines, or a least certain airlines, they will see a market worth catering to? Or at least worth working with.
Good points and right along with my thinking TD.
I missed the Big pizzaman thread. Which one is it?
Its essential to have a good packing system. I wonder if some problems are caused by not doing this. Hypothetical; say you have a loose arrow or BH in there and the guy is sifting through your gear, he is going to be ticked off if he is cut....vs having BH's in a tupperware container marked "Sharp"
Otherwise if they are going to rip you off...not much you can do.
Stekewood, Outback Excitement!
I watched a prick slam my gun and everyone elses at the airport up in Minneapolis last year on my way to Canada. He was outside loading the plane and I couldn't yell at him. I was very surprised to find my Nikon scope still had its zero when I arrived. It was good enough to shoot my buck at 507 yds
My SKB bag is just another green canvas bag that looks like any other hikers, camper, mountain climbers, marathon runner or outdoor vacationers travel bag. Nobody knows what's in my bag except if TSA wants to open it. I use TSA approved locks and haven't had any trouble. Sorry if you view my method of damage control as a snide remark. That was not my intention.
See Thorntons post above. The majority of peoples troubles come from baggage handlers not TSA persons looking for dangerous cargo. That is why I camouflage my bow and hunting gear by getting a travel bag that blends in with regular folks.
Black terra glide solves all problems
If I can't drive there, I don't hunt it. Yeah, there are lots of places I'll never go. But I probably wasn't gonna go there anyway.
It is just a part of the world we live in today. As I stated in another thread, I now fly with a black SKB case with music related decals on it hoping to disguise myself or divert attention from self and my belongings. When flying, I wear golf logo attire.
My vehicle has no identifiable hunting decals or tags on it.
I am a proud hunter, but I try my best to travel under the enemy's radar screen.
"I ain't looking for trouble and I ain't trying to make trouble." I'm just trying to avoid trouble.
The world has changed from what it used to be. We can adapt and still enjoy our sport.
I make it really simple.....if I can't drive myself there I don't go. End of problem.
No I didn't take your remark as that Charlie. I use a SKB bow case and thought you were talking about that case. I was asking for serious responses as I think this could become a major problem for travelers. Travelers are at the TSA and handlers mercy. Ugh Tim's experience is scary to me.
I am proud to be a hunter......but no so proud that I am going to jeopardize my hunts to make a point.
Whenever I fly, I take a William Joseph roller duffel (basically a non-camo terraglide) and an SKB bow case. 1 bow and a dozen arrows in each. I carry the necessities in my carry-on (optics, license/tags, releases, boots, rain gear).
I do likewise Matt. But after all of these stories I feel vulnerable. Have to arrive at the destination with crossed fingers and hope for the best. Prevention is paramount. I have been contemplating wrapping the bow in that packing saran wrap type stuff prior to putting in case or luggage. I wonder if inspectors would remove that upon inspection. I guess a knife would go thru that easily if sabotagers wanted to cut strings.
This is definitely a problem. I fly with an SKB double bow case. It has a label that reads "Not a Firearm". I think that I am going to change it to "FIELD ARCHERY GEAR". I have generally not had any problems except for TSA rooting through my carefully packed case and then just jamming the lid back shut. On one hunt, I opened the case upon arrival only to find that the rest on my primary bow was bent beyond repair. Fortunately, my back up bow was OK. I would appreciate it if we could be present when they performed the inspection and then was able to repack/rearrange the gear before the case was shut and locked.
On your bowcase write
Fragile telescope enclosed
Why can't you ship gear on a DIY, TD? You can ship to a Post Office with your name on it to pick up there.
good question
IDK the answer
lay low and don't come off as a hunter. you'll be happier more often on the other end.
you win nothing by looking like camo joe or your gear screaming I kill stuff. you stand to lose a lot though,
Wildwilderness: Just so you know, the airline has and uses the right to search any part of any piece of your baggage at any time while it is in their control. And if you do not use TSA approved locks they can, will, and have broken the locks/latches in order to inspect. Then if your lucky they might half a$$ scotch tape your bow/gun case closed for the rest of its trip to Africa. (good luck with that outcome) I always use a rectangular inconspicuous SKB hard double completely plastered with Golf logos, and haven't worn camo in public in over a decade. Haven't had any issues...
I have a question. Why would anyone wear camo clothes when traveling? For that matter, why wear them anywhere but in the woods? Maybe that is why mine last so long, My camo only gets worm when hunting. I don't even wear it scouting.
Agreed that we can all do things to look inconspicuous. It may help. Where we are helpless is when it comes to handling and inspection. There needs to be control in those areas. How to control it is the question. It will likely never be controllable. ugh.
After reading this thread I'm gonna get some golf stickers and plaster them on my black SKB. The baggage monkeys have done some damage to it over the years but it has protected the contents. Mike
Ned if you want to be inconspicuous, you might want to avoid wearing those bras... at least those pink ones. Just saying....
"Go incognito, no one bothers golfers and guitarists"
bother no - but a friend has several thousands of dollars guitar's damaged on airlines
Don't even think of going to mexico. They steal everything. Golf clubs, cameras, clothes, and even my fabulous jewelry.
I think there will always be the careless stupid human factor..... I don't think that will ever totally go away. Guarding against that is more along the lines of using the best case/bag you can and packing it well.
The malicious vandalism angle is scary though. That can and should be on the shoulders of the airline officers, managers and staff. That is almost a political/internal issue, the people have to be caught and charged with crimes. Without airline cooperation.... tough.
WRT shipping ahead of time..... maybe "can't" was a poor choice of words. To set the whole post office thing up..... in a city you've never been to..... schedule your flights only during days the PO is open and the hours they are open..... boxing up your bow so it doesn't get damaged.... it's not worth the hassle, my chances are better flying with them IMO.
Plus.... it's not like the USPS never loses (or damages) anything either. We use it shipping a great deal and while normally reliable they are certainly not infallible. While I do use them a great deal more, they've lost far more boxes of mine than the airlines have.
WRT lost luggage, you do up your odds of getting your bags by getting to the airport a couple hours early, trying to stay with the same carrier all the way through, if there are layovers schedule plenty of time between flights (a common mistake is trying to cut time by shortening layovers) know the airport abbreviations of your destinations and check the baggage tickets when you check in, I've had them mislabeled before and caught it just in time. Many times they will screw up and tag them to go to the first leg and not the destination.
And IMO.... prayer can't hurt......
I just ordered 4 golf decals for my SKB. I just wanna hunt, no drama. Mike
bowriter, some people only buy camo clothes and only shop at cabellas/bass pro for their clothing. There's a lot of cheep cotton camo clothes that I doubt many people would actually wear hunting. But it likewise boggles my mind when I see people wearing real hunting gear out and about. I guess if I had endless amounts of money, yeah, it's comfortable, I'd probably wear my expensive hunting clothes and replace them frequently - otherwise, they're for hunting only for me.
Do you guys really think baggage handlers care about a bowhunting sticker or even take the time to look at it? I think they are equal opportunity destroyers......
So....looks like a golf club hard case with a Hillary sticker has the best chance ....check.
I use a metal case that's not made anymore called a Kalispell Case. It's exactly like the ones sold by Cabelas. It's been in the belly of a couple hundred planes (at least) and it's contents have never been damaged at all.
I use a non-TSA approved simple key lock. Maybe it is TSA approved? There is NEVER an inspection form in my rifle case. They do not open it after the initial inspection.
Matthew...Firearms are handled completely different than archery equipment. Technically speaking, a firearm should NEVER have a TSA lock on it. Archery Equipment should ONLY have a TSA lock on it. TSA rules say that YOU are the only one that can access a firearm once it is inspected. Archery Equipment can get inspected at every stop, like any other piece of luggage. If you put a non tsa padlock on archery equipment, you run the risk of the lock being cut/broken for inspection. IMO, there is much less chance of vandalism with firearms vs. archery equipment because firearms aren't inspected after checking in. Also, as stated above...you want a bag to make it to it's destination? Put a hand gun in it. I GUARANTEE it will get there. When I travel, I'm never worried my firearm will be messed with. When I travel with my bow, I hold my breath.
I posted my about my Air Canada fiasco last week. FYI, the damaged items were in a plain black case with only a small logo of Far North Archery. I have no idea if the damage was intentional or not, but I definitely wasn't dressed like a hunter. Hindsight is 20/20, but looking back on it, I would have rather driven the 23 hours vs incurring the $1000 loss that the airline inflicted...
Kota-man: Is there any reason why we couldn't put a handgun in with our bow? It seems like we could pack all of our most important equipment (bow, arrows, broadheads, knives, license, etc) in a big case with a non-TSA lock and a handgun in it. This would be for domestic travel.
I flew to Alaska spring of 2016. Had a SKB bow case with personal locks. They inspected my case without my knowledge after cutting the locks off. Left one of there notes in the case saying how they are helping everyone be safe on there flight. Nothing was damaged and everything was in the case. But they destroyed my locks. I would have been happy to unlock it for them.
Elkstabber...I can't say for sure if a hand gun packed in a bow case poses any problems or not, but don't see why you couldn't as long as you declare the hand gun.
Everyone should learn from arrowflingers experience and what I said above. If you don't declare/check a firearm, the case has to have TSA locks, or you risk destruction of your locks. If your case isn't inspected when you check in, it is not always possible for you to be present when your case needs to be inspected. Again, follow this simple rule: Firearms=no TSA locks. Everything else (including archery equipment) must have TSA locks.
Simple solution: Put a pistol in your bow case and then you have to have locks that they cant open and no one will be in your bag after you check it in at the airline.
When I travelled from the UK to South Africa some years ago, there were some valuable threads over on the Africa forum about how not to have your bowhunting gear turned over; basically, the indig. baggage handlers are more likely to try and open anything which looks like a rifle case...ergo, even if you are flying with 'field archery equipment' [which is what I explained to the check-in staff at London Heathrow], my bow case was inside a Cabela's v. large duffel bag, so it travelled as 'fragile' and I collected it from the over-size luggage collection point. No problems.
Two guys I met on the way back from Jo'burg one year relayed a horror story of how baggage handlers had removed two rifles from a case after inspection in Jo'burg before they went on a connecting flight up to Botswana for a very high-end big five hunt; when the owner opened his case, he found metal bars, replicating the weight of his missing rifles. Trust No-one. Suspect Everyone.
I'm planning an elk hunt at some point in the not too distant future, please God, and I plan to run the same drill with my archery gear when travelling to the US.
As to the whole 'don't look like a hunter' issue, this makes sense but also boils my p**s; hunting with Hounds has had to endure direct and often violent enemy action since the early 60s in this country, and we've grown up with the 'keep your head down' mantra, as if the enemy are going to leave us alone.
So if someone doesnt like the fact that I hunt [whatever the means of take], they can Suck It The F*** Up, in a polite mannerly kinda way [SITFU...my favourite acronym at present].
Safe travels to one and all, good luck and good hunting!!!
PS Do golfers have to disguise their club bags as bowcases? ;-)
Hard to stop a thief, especially a determined thief.
Common sense regarding shipment is best but with Air Lines Carriers it seem's to be more problematic. Lost luggage, luggage sent to wrong destination and theft.
Not sure if there is a safe solution.
One tip to consider, put a bow sling/cover like the Primos or Kuiu version over your string/cables/cam when putting it in the bow case to protect it during travel. It could be the difference between shifting gear damaging your equipment or a nefarious but lazy TSA employee making the effort to screw with your gear.
Good tip Matt. I do that every time. So far no probs.
I travel with my bow and clothes in a single SKB golf case. My last three tree flights were without issue. I got snagged by a HAG in Phoenix on my way from Phoenix to JFK on my way to South Africa. She said cause I had archery gear in the golf case there was a $200.00 oversize fee. AMERICAN AIRLINES put it to me with no lube. South Africa Airlines had no problem with the golf case and no extra charge. On the way home I was not charged extra for the case and contents. The moral of the story is that AMERICAN DISNEY LAND AIRLINES SUCKS. I have asked for a refund for the extra charges but they are giving me the total run around. At this point I will cancel my frequent flyer membership and credit card with that group of A$$ Holes. The same size SKB case flies with no extra fees but if there is archery gear involved then there is a $200.00 oversize fee. TOTAL DISCRIMINATION ON THERE PART !! If there is a class action suit, count me in. Almost all of the airlines are anti hunting and almost all of the airlines SUCK BIG TIME....IMO.
Some airports allow the option of standing with TSA when they inspect your gear, some don't. Also if you don't have TSA locks and you don't have the option of being there for inspection, they will break the locks and tie wrap your bow case closed afterwards. Not good. Last few times I used a hard bottom duffle and left the bow case home. Worked out better, no problems.
I fly with a handgun in my checked and TSA always asks me to open the case for them. Was asked by on agent to open ratchet straps on someone else's golf case. City boy had no idea how to operate them. Double SKB case never even got opened on the trip to RSA. Had TSA locks on it. Guess I'm lucky that I've had no issues.
My friend flew home after a successful elk hunt. When he got home his range finder was missing. He swore that the Nasty attitude TSA lady forgot to put it back in his carry on. Not happy. Next year we up hunting the same area and was explaining exactly where he was when he shot the bull. He said I was right next to this tree when I shot he moved to the spot and there was his rangefinder.
bowbender..... American hosed me with oversize charges as well. They got me on the return trip as going over archery gear was exempted. They apparently changed policy while on my hunt, because I had checked before booking and even had a printed copy of it with me. They printed out a new page with the new policy. I was livid. I've been given the run around as well, usually by someone who speaks little to no english...... or pretty much been told to shove off......
I did some research shortly after and at the time.... to the best of my recollection..... unAmerican still has exceptions for golf clubs. BUT state right in their online page that anything BUT golf clubs in a club case will be subject to oversize. When I got hit it was $150, now they have bumped that to $200.
United still exempts archery gear as well as golf clubs. AND even specifically state on their page much to my amusement, if you put archery gear in a golf club case..... THEY DON'T CARE. It's still exempt. Almost a direct jab at unAmerican. Pretty cool.
I forget, there were a couple others that didn't exempt archery gear and would charge oversize and was kinda surprised one of them was AK Air. But their oversize fees weren't a great deal over the regular luggage fee, like $50 or something if I remember. I've talked to several folks that tell me they really don't enforce the rule..... but the regulation is there nonetheless.
My next trip i'll go through all the regs again..... and hope they don't change them mid-trip like the last time. But it will be a cold day in hell before i ever have anything to do with unAmerican airlines again.
I simply take my case to the oversized baggage counter locked. I give them the keys to open it and watch them inspect everything.
I then thank them and ask them to lock it back up which they do and I have never had a problem.
Same here as expeditiontraders, I open the case, watch inspection and then lock it. i have never had a problem on dozens of trips in US. I guess overseas is a different ballgame.
Could someone please link the SKB cases that are referenced? Thanks
If TSA goes through your bag behind closed doors they are required to leave a slip saying they did and who did it. So anything that is ripped off from bags is most like the baggage handlers who have been stealing stuff ever since luggage was loaded on a plane.
The best way to prevent someone from going through your bags is to try and keep your connecting flights with as short a layover as you can. 3 hour layovers give the baggage handlers plenty of time to eyeball bags they might want to pick through. A 1 hour layovers, not so much.
