Illinois Crossbow Legislation
Whitetail Deer
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocTypeID=HB&DocNum=2893&GAID=14&SessionID=91&LegID=104353
Crossbows for everyone in Illinois full archery season from now on. Just what we need. More pressure on a depleted and exploited wildlife resource. This opens the door for gun hunters to expand their season and get in on the whitetail prime rut days. No doubt this will also result in more nonresidents joining in, and of course Illinois legislature further expanding the nonresident fake quota another thousand or two, because they set it at however many apply. Bad enough they raised it from 6,000 to 12,000 to 24,000 or whatever. Leaving Iowa's 2,100 in the dust!
This is something both residents and nonresident bowhunters alike should be pissed at. If you want to give the bill sponsors an earful, their emails are in the link. Illinois has not passed one piece of legislation that has benefited deer management in the last 25 years. They all ran the state into junk bond credit status. Today they are voting to increase the state income tax to 5%, ~$1,200/household added to already the highest cumulative taxes in the nation. $10,000/year property taxes in my area for a 3BR/2BA starter. All while bloating up the highest state employee salaries & pensions. I give up on the state budget, and will from now on concentrate on ripping legislators a new one when it comes to mismanagement of the deer herd.
Sitting on the gov's desk and I don't think he's going to sign anything until a budget is passed.you knew this was coming, amazing how crossbow manufactures can donate a few bucks and get this through.
The end is near. The new generation are looking for instant gratification. Who has the time to do the hard work? Who wants to sweat? Phewww.
I Heard similar fears when Vermont allowed hunters to take doe deer in bow season. I expect that there will be an upsurge in license sales then a decline in following years.
The same talk was going on 40 years ago when compound bows were created. It was the end of the bowhunting world as we knew it.
It hasn't hurt any other states where they are allowed and there has been no huge surge in hunter numbers or deer declining because of crossbow useage.
YEAH! Just like compounds!
To those who claim this has happened before without consequence, I will point out that Illinois is a totally different situation. Gun hunters have a LOT more to gain here by picking up a crossbow. Reason being we have so few firearm days compared to other states. Only 7 slug gun days, and 3 muzzleloader. And all are POST RUT. A guy on AT tried to compare Pennsylvania to Illinois, and you just can't do it. PA has DOUBLE the firearm days (rifle!), and SIX times the muzzleloader days. Plus an 8 day October muzzleloader season. FAR, FAR less incentive for a gun hunter to pick up a crossbow. So in fact this is uncharted waters. To claim otherwise is pure speculation.
There's one thing I can 100% guarantee. This legislation will in no way, shape, or form IMPROVE deer quality in Illinois. Since rarely if ever do any rule changes have zero affect, that pretty much just leaves one way to go. Illinois fake deer management.
Indiana is five years removed from full crossbow inclusion. To date, it is obvious the crossbow has put more gun hunters in the woods during archery season. The crossbow industry touts these people as "new hunters", but they were already hunters. Basically a group of hunters that wanted to participate during archery season, but had no interest in bowhunting.
What we don't know yet is how much the crossbow has damaged archery recruitment? I don't know anyone personally that stopped using a bow in favor of a crossbow, but it is likely we have lost potential bowhunters from that same group on the front end of the equation.
Ken, I get what you are saying about firearm opportunity being relative to crossbow impact. If you want to see a more apples to apples comparison between Illinois and another state with a history of full crossbow inclusion, look at the stats from Ohio. That state has much more comparable firearm opportunity.
Zim, I believe you are 100% dead on. It seems to me, there is only one way to balance the scales. You and all your like-minded, hunting friends are just going to have to quit hunting. Sell your bows, take up professional hand-wringing and wailing and watch as IL goes the way of every other state that has approved crossbows during archery season. And believe me, it will go that way. Bowhunting will be absolutely ruined. The deer herd will be all but a thing of the past. Murders in Chicago will increase, (maybe that isn't all bad as long as they are confined to gangs and other hi-tech shooters.), and without a doubt a compound, formerly thought to be the ruination of bowhunting will become a relic. I mean heck, just look at how that has happened in every other state. I hate crossbows. Unfortunately, I have been forced to use one for almost 10-years if I wished to continue to hunt during archery season. They have been legal here for many years. Recently it became clear to me, crossbows are not the threat at all. The threat here is the Wildlife Commission. Maybe we better do away with all wildlife and spend our time building and selling fidget spinners so our kids can grow up healthy. (IN case some missed it, this is sarcasm. I hate I need to point that out.) All across this country, state after state has opened crossbow hunting. As far back as anyone can remember, WY has always had it. The ruination of bowhunting, is now, as it has always been, still on the horizon. So fellow bowhunters, come to TN. We have about a million deer, less than 125,000 bowhunters and plenty of opportunities for somewhat smaller-antlered bucks. If you are a meat hunter, the limit on does is just over 333-per year. Crossbows have just flat ruined our hunting. I hate to think what will happen when Crab Orchard is crammed with 250,000 city slickers from Halstead Street. I think I'll see about re-opening my guiding business in Pearl. Maybe the old jail is for sale again.
In Ohio, between 60 & 70% of the deer killed in "archery" season are killed with crossbows.
TMBB
God how we hate change. Compound bows, mechanical broadheads and now crossbows will cause the extinction of deer in North America.
I have hunted IL for over forty years. Have seen the herd go from "minimal" deer to the "good old days" in the mid 90's to early 2000's. I hunt in one of the top counties in the state.
What is really damaging the herd is the late winter antlerless season held in many counties. In some counties, this is also now a CWD season in counties where a minimum of ONE deer has tested positive for CWD. What that means is this: you can use any unfilled tag of any sort as long as it is weapon appropriate, and you can kill more than the State allowed limit of two antlered deer if you have either sex tags. Oh, BTW, you can purchase AS MANY antlerless tags for $5.50 over the counter as you want. Once they start these liberal seasons in a county, they are there to stay.
The Late Winter season is a split 7 days, the CWD season is the last 3 days of these 7 days (mid January). It is a slaughter in the county I hunt in. LOTS of deer drives, and lots of wounded deer left in the field (not anecdotal, but from experience of mine and several other hunters). A very high percentage of the does in mid January have viable fetuses as well, and most bucks have shed antlers (so they are running around as antlerless deer). Deer numbers have really dropped, and the number and quality of bucks have tanked.
The crossbow will only exacerbate the decline of the quality of the herd. If you think differently, you're kidding yourself. Easy, Easier, Easiest. Where does it stop? A person can hide behind every crossbow excuse, but at some point the hunting community should be ashamed of itself for everything that we've done to minimize the time and dedication that used to be required to hunt big game.
If you keep bag limits the same it cannot hurt hunting. In fact it may help it. Less wounded deer lost to the ineffective (not all) crossbow user. It's like hunting with a bird dog. One would automatically assume it leads to more killing of game but it only raises the recovery rate of game that may otherwise not been recovered.
Ohhh good lord according to Zim1 the sky is falling again. Damn man move if you don't honestly like it here.
These both warrant repeating until all bowhunters get the valid points.
"Indiana is five years removed from full crossbow inclusion. To date, it is obvious the crossbow has put more gun hunters in the woods during archery season. The crossbow industry touts these people as "new hunters", but they were already hunters. Basically a group of hunters that wanted to participate during archery season, but had no interest in bowhunting."
"In Ohio, between 60 & 70% of the deer killed in "archery" season are killed with crossbows. "
Well duh???
No they aren't compounds, no they don't rely upon any skill to use at long ranges and yes repeat crossbows are in the mfg. engineering depts. ready for release.
They have nosed their way into many an "archery season" they didn't help create and it distinctly reduces the fraternal spirit of bows- the hand held, hand drawn with YOUR own strength and skill experience. NO doubt the increase in harvests with crossbows will ultimately affect archery lisc. overall.
Well, first of all I find it funny that the high tech compound guys are bitching about high tech crossbows. The same argument of getting more people in the woods because it's easier to shoot a crossbow vs a high tech compound is a joke. I went with a friend to bass pro to buy a bow, his fist ever. Never shot a bow in his life and after the tech set up evrything for him we went upto the range. Now, when I started shooting my longbows and recurves I started shooting at 5/10 yards. He starts out at 30 yards and starts putting bulls up right out of the box. I have shot compounds and they are bulky, cumbersome and certainly more difficult to shoot than a bow a friend of mine hunts with a xbow and he doesn't shoot deer like most think, he takes one maybe two a year and he is a good Hunter, and as he says it's more difficult to get on a deer in close quarters Tham his regular bow. Just to make my main point clear here, no that is the joke of compound shooters complaining about xbows, it is ironic.
Secondly, as previously mentioned, the late CWD season does more harm to the herd than X bows will ever do, all the does taken with fetuses certainly will hurt the herds future growth.
Oops, I have shot xbows and they are bulky etc...
Anybody making comments with regard to Xbow effectiveness is completely off track. The negative aspect of this legislation has nothing to do with range or accuracy. It has everything to do with putting more hunters in the woods at peak rut. More pressure on the already tapped out resource. This is especially the case on our public lands where there is no quota on bowhunters at 98% of the properties. The reason archery seasons are so much longer than gun is obvious. It's a bigger challenge with lower success rates. That is how it should be.
I see a lot of folks here who claim there will be no negative impact, that defend their opinion using totally inapplicable comparisons. Such as by using places like Tennessee and Mississippi, which have no quality deer management at all, and are white voids on the Pope & Young stat map. Get real. So far it seems the Ohio comparison is the only valid one, and that one does not paint a pretty picture.
"I can tell you it sure helped out a lot of archery shops, and that is a good plus....... "
Razor, crossbow hunters actually hurt archery shops in the long run. Most bow hunters like to tinker with their set ups and are always in the shop buying different gear. Many true archers even like to buy a new bow every other year if not every year. Not so much with crossbow hunters. They are more like rifle hunters. Sight it in and put it away until you need it. I got this straight from 3 different shop owners here in WI. Wi had the perfect law for this. It should have been kept for the elderly and disabled.
Zim1, yes we do have 12 days of firearms season here in Pennsylvania but the 8 days of October muzzleloader you refer to is doe only so bucks aren't getting killed prerut and the 6 weeks of late season muzzleloader is flintlock only. Not many guys are out slaughtering the steeds with smokepoles. Most guys (me included) are way better off using a compound than trying to kill a buck with a flintlock. Crossbows aren't the boogeyman.
I'm not sure about that percentage but assuming it is correct, that would be because 60-70 percent of the hunters are shooting crossbows. What is your point? Does that prevent you from using whatever you wish?
Razorhead X10. That is it dead on. Ten-years ago, I wrote an magazine article, titled, "The Sky Didn't Fall". It was about the demise of bowhunting due to the crossbow---which did not happen. Guess what? It won magazine article of the year. I have adopted this mantra.
Want to shoot a crossbow? Shoot one. Don't want to shoot a crossbow? Don't shoot one. Want to bitch about crossbows? Get your facts straight or shut up.
We have nothing to fear but fear itself! Throw your crystal ball away as it is likely broken anyways and get out and hunt, live one day at a time and live life to the fullest! These are cadillac problems! Be grateful to have your health and be able to hunt!
Zim, all do respect but your upset because your chance of scoring a pope and young deer will be harder? Deer hunting should be about the food it puts in your freezer first and then trophies second. More pressure on public lands just makes the deer smarter which will increase the size of bucks, and only the hunters who hunt harder and smarter will benefit. Also being a public land Hunter myself once the cold weather hits most of the hunters hit the couch. There are plenty of deer and if this xbow bill is to get more money into the state then the state should stop culling. Every year they have their shooters out killing deer instead of opening up areas for hunters. I spoke with a biologist last year and said that the orders came down to reduce the herd by 14% and so the culling began.
But really why even have an "archery" season anymore? It's much too difficult for some. Why not make it easier and make it ANY weapon per tag. Rocket launchers, land mines, remote fired rifles, armed drones. Why discriminate against those?
I am not a fan of any special weapon seasons. That is a very unpopular position to take on BS, no doubt. I will say this about crossbows. When they came to KS I thought they would not be popular. It is amazing. I seldom see anything else now. Not a single NR has come with a compound in my area that I have seen. Guys who did not even hunt anymore now do with a crossbow. It will ruin what is left of the KS deer herd. Not that much is left. The answer is to control permit numbersl. Not going to happen.
I did not read all the post but I would like to add that though the X bow is cumbersome, it is apparently not a deterrent to use by the Kansas resident and NR bait sitters. Anyone with an IQ of 6, a pile of corn and a x bow is a deer killer. I never would have believed the popularity of them. But, I never thought folks would buy water in little plastic bottles either. I'm not much good at predicting the conduct of others.
Razorhead, you need to come down to Ft. McCoy and the W.Central Forrest Zone to see the actual difference from what it was and what it is now and you will come away talking to yourself, two different worlds.
There is 1 and only 1 reason that a hunter uses a compound bow in stead of a recurve/longbow. Reason is they want/need an easier way to be a bow hunter. And that is 100% fine - until they want their easy to be the bar for all. I hunt 90% recurve - 10% compound and support full inclusion everywhere. Only way I would be against crossbow would be to support their use ALONG WITH COMPOUNDS in the gun seasons only. Not going to happen so I welcome all bowhunters to the bowseason.
All i will say is go back a few years in a lot of states game laws. Look at the definition of archery equipment or tackle as some called it. Included in the definition was hand drawn and held in place with the fingers or a release aide, oh and also held vertical. No mention of cocked held in place with a mechanism that is a trigger. Argue all you want, they are not as bow, actually have a lot more in common with a gun then any bow, compound or traditional tackle. Call a spade a spade and don't try and make it something it is not. Scooby
It will sell more archery permits. More permit sales equals more regenue generated from outdoor funding and shuffled to other state agencys. Sportsmen and women probably won't even see the results of extra permits sold. Just another mismanaged department in our great state ILLINOID.
Last year I was faced with more surgeries so I could draw my bow. I've had way to many and after getting a staph infection and almost dying I've chose not to have shoulder surgery. I grudgingly bout a crossbow to use. For those that have never used one let me tell you this. There's nothing fun about shooting or hunting with one. I absolutely hate using it. Shooting a bow is fun you knock an arrow draw and release. A crossbow you either hand crank to cock or attach a draw cord that doesn't always stay on where it's supposed to and pull until its cocked. They are supposed to be super accurate. I was more accurate with my bow. Then to unload it you have to have a heavy solid Fiberglas bolt to shoot into the ground. I forgot the noise factor too.
Scoob: A release aid IS a trigger! A crossbow has zero 100% let off. Your compound has 80% let off. A stickbow has ZERO % let off. Your compound is WAAAY closer to a crossbow than it is to a stickbow. Many compound shooters today don't even know how to HOLD a bowstring with their fingers!
But ultimately ALL of them shoot a pointy stick launched via energy stored in drawn limbs and the arrow kills via shock through blood loss cause by a razor sharp tip. At no time in the process are there any explosions to be heard. No supersonic arrows that can blow through shoulders like they're not there and then kill by hydroscopic shock. They're ALL bows. They might not be a bow that you like, but that doesn't change reality.
I honestly do not understand the crossbowphobia that seems to be common in the archery world. From a 100% traditional archer who has never used or shot a compound bow I can understand it (I'm a stickbow shooter myself). I don't agree with it but I can understand it because many of them don't think compounds should be used in archery season! But a compound shooter? Unbelievable!!!
and just a few short years ago the head of Illinois bowhunters was so proud that they kept crossbows out of bow season until after the second gun season. I don't think it will add many hunters but I do believe a bunch of compounders will pick one up. you have no right to bitch about any rule the state has for public ground. buy your own and set your own rules.
The reason archery seasons are so much longer than gun is obvious. It's a bigger challenge with lower success rates. That is how it should be.
Yup
DL& Woods Walker-pretty much nailed it. When I hear all the P&M about crossbows, I know it is coming from someone who never tried to hunt with one. But I will say this. The myths I heard 15-20 years ago have been tempered some. I haven't heard about 400" elk being killed at 120-yards with one. At least, not lately.
Kills me those of sparkly populated states or provinces claim don't worry, they won't be noticed, but in a densely populated state like Ohio (capital of the xgun), your serene unpressured bowhunts will now be over, welcome to the pseudo gunseason... Trust me, being a Buckeye, I know...
I was just talking to a bowhunter the other day and he told me he shoots traditional. I gingerly asked him what type of bow he shoots, it was a compound. Times are definitely changing.
I have no issue with crossbows however they are part of archery, not bowhunting. As many others have pointed out, bowhunting and bowhunter numbers are on the decline. Crossbows are not the end of hunting, but are causing a serious erosion in bowhunting and it's intended limitations and culture.
I also agree with others, there is no longer a need for separate seasons. One season, hunt with whatever you have fun with. Joy to all this coming fall, may your crosshairs line up!!!
rom: Zbone 04-Jul-17Private Reply Kills me those of sparkly populated states or provinces claim don't worry, they won't be noticed, but in a densely populated state like Ohio (capital of the xgun), your serene unpressured bowhunts will now be over, welcome to the pseudo gunseason... Trust me, being a Buckeye, I know...
Being from the sparsely populated state of Michigan, LOL, and knowing that comment of yours is a bunch of bull, I wouldn't trust a Buckeye any further than it falls off the tree!
Makes me laugh, do you shoulder your bow. Is the string held in place, is it always ready to shoot. Even the cross bow manufacturers are advertising they are "your next rifle". Way more in common with a gun, sorry but true. Shawn
logic of those saying its ok to have crossbows during archery season is the same as saying it is ok to have rifle season all year long, it wont hurt anything.
It cracks me up when people say crossbows are not fair because they are easy to shoot and more accurate. I never heard rifle shooters say they wanted a less accurate rifle.
" Just what we need. More pressure on a depleted and exploited wildlife resource. This opens the door for gun hunters to expand their season and get in on the whitetail prime rut days. No doubt this will also result in more nonresidents joining in,"
Compounds account for the very same thing FYI
Zim
I agree with you, especially when we consider the tag system in IL and allowing one buck for archery and one for gun. There's gonna be a considerable amount of gun hunters that buy archery tags now to hunt with a crossbow and hunt the days all around the gun seasons. We can count on a higher buck kill during archery and archery tags are gonna be sold out every year. Let's hope we are wrong
XMan
Yeah, just like it did here in Illinois when compounds came along!
Maybe a Nationwide boycott of hunting would send a needed message to our game departments run by politicians? Cut off funding 100 %!
Sounds like things are so bad anyway it would not be that difficult to get tons of support and momentum.
BTW, I bear hunt with a guy from IL, who also comes to my farm in MO to hunt. He is 62 and a shoulder problem caused him to go to crossbow several years ago, after decades of hunting with a compound. He misses his compound. I think of him as an archery hunter. He passed a 30 yard shot last year that I would have killed with my compound.
Its not the point of how accurate they are, its the point of people wandering around in the woods that don't deserve to be there... Anybody that can pull a trigger is now a so called "bowhunter"... Bows were the reason for the season... Paraphrasing Howard Hill, "Its suppose to be hard"...
Hey Topgun 30-06 - GO BLOW...
"... don't deserve to be there"
Now that's funny.
Zbone, everyone deserves to be out in the woods if they choose to be, come on. I understand where your coming from but the ones who want it to be easy won't be out there long. When the cold weather hits many hunters give up and won't suffer through the cold to get a deer. The hardcore hunters stay out and have the woods almost to themselves, at least here in northern IL.
I do not have an issue with folks that really need them to hunt but I believe it does turn certain folks(gun hunters) into so called bowhunters. I personally know several guys who never touch a bow that once NY allowed them to be used during ths last two weeks of archery that went out and bought a cross gun. That is all the proof need! Scooby
The "deserves" comment references taking the time and practice to learn to shoot a bow, not pull a trigger... Again, the bow "was" the reason for the season...
" When the cold weather hits many hunters give up and won't suffer through the cold to get a deer."
YUP! I love those cold days, and if you add really strong winds it's even better. I mean the kind of wind that a tree stand hunter wakes up to and then rolls over and goes back to sleep. If it's really cold the deer will not move until the theoretical "warmest" part of the day, and when they do move it'll be in the areas that are the most protected from the wind, thereby reducing the potential area you may find them in by 50% or more. I hunt them on the ground and the mobility that gives me is a real asset under these circumstances.
Lou had a thread a couple months ago about changing demographics and what it meant to the future of hunting. We need to hang onto hunters any way we can IMHO.
As we age, more will need to adapt, including the use of less strenuous weapons. I am not a fan of needing government's permission as to when and how I must adapt.
Don't like it, get private property where your efforts will be criticized for taking opportunity away from others. Guess the times we live in, to always find fault.
From: Zbone 04-Jul-17Private Reply Its not the point of how accurate they are, its the point of people wandering around in the woods that don't deserve to be there... Anybody that can pull a trigger is now a so called "bowhunter"... Bows were the reason for the season... Paraphrasing Howard Hill, "Its suppose to be hard"... Hey Topgun 30-06 - GO BLOW...
From: Habitat for Wildlife 04-Jul-17Private Reply "... don't deserve to be there" Now that's funny.
That post of his was more than funny. It was absolutely stupid and he's the one that can go blow with that kind of ignorant post!
"Don't like it, get private property" This argument holds absolutely zero water when the legislators who pissed away my public are also the ones who made the liberal laws that stole my hard earned private land and gave it away to my unemployed trailer trash ex because the state doesn't want to pay the unsustainable welfare cost to support that ex. Welfare programs they created just to buy votes, and for which I also get to pay for! So this now amounts to triple dipping. I should have just as much voice as anyone as to how that public land is managed. Certainly as much as the "if it's brown it's down crowd". And way more than the Johnny come lately special interest groups stuffing cash in Costello & Anderson's pockets. I was already paying my share for that public land back when bill sponsors Costello & Anderson's mama's were changing their diapers.
compouders complaining about an easier weapon taking over their bow season, making it more crowded etc
amazing
So easier is OK as long as it stops at your easier? Got it.
Quote:" compounders complaining about an easier weapon taking over their bow season, making it more crowded etc amazing. Seldom agree with Brad - but 100% with this one.
So eliminate any challenge. I want to be able to shoot from the comfort of my vehicle with any weapon. Why discriminate against that? Where does including all stop? I want a billion dollars. Why should just the people that work their whole lives have money. That's too hard.
Just where are these guys going to hunt? Not on my farm or yours. Not on your leases either. Are they skilled enough to hunt public? Probably not. End up being another toy to gather dust. Impact probably minimal. Much ado about nothing.
By the way if costello is jerry costello hes my pal and hunts with me with a bow.
Jtv that was cruel since i don't know you.
JTV always has to resort to insults. Look at how he addresses people on here and the community forums that don't agree with him.
Insults is all he has. The way he spouts off is laughable at best.
I am sure I'll have something hurled my way, telling me I'd get shoved off his porch and some other internet billy badass response.
At your age, you'd think you'd have learned, balboa.
Ha ha ha. Kyle can pretty much guarantee you, I am not the guy who posted under patriot.
Bowfreak can guarantee it.
Scoot can.
PAV can.
I've hunted with 2 of the guys I've listed. And soon to be scoot and his group of fine gentlemen. And smarba too.
Try again.
I wonder how the cave men felt when fire was first encounterd, or the wheel? I think they would welcome a crossbow...after all they had to feed a bunch of cave dwellers and such, prolly would'nt matter how it was done, just put meat on the table... just a thought.
Well, we both know that I wake up every morning, hoping to endear myself to gentlemen like yourself.
I am not entirely sure if you can read, but let's try this again.
I never defended crossbows. Never even mentioned them in my initial post. Not sure if you were able to pick up on that or not.
My post was a direct approach towards you, and how you treat people and talk to people that I guarantee, face to face, you'd never talk like that to somebody you don't know. You wouldn't do that in the rapid fire sequence that you do.
As far as crossbows go, I am very glad they exist for people.
The elderly and the handicapped should most certainly be included in what we do. As far as Including them as general archery equipment hunts, I really don't care. I hunt Wyoming an awful lot, and I hunt a lot of different places. I am trying to put my finger on how many times a crossbow has had a direct impact on me. It hasn't.
The only impact I have had from crossbows Is the simple fact that because they exist, I have the privilege to assist a handicapped hunter this season kill his very first elk. And he gets to hunt 5 days earlier than the actual season.
So yeah, I'm glad they exist.
What is it with you guys on here, it seems every thread ends up in little girls pissing and moaning. STFU already and discuss the topic at hand and if you can't say nothing. For all the complaining about crossbows by compound guys is ironic as previously stated.
I shoot my recurve with a cant, sometimes a 45 degree cant. I even shoot it while laying on my stomach as I arch my back up and then it is completely vertical. Does this count as vertical and should I not be able to hunt during bow season with it?
And when did they start using primer caps and explosive energy in crossbows to turn them into "guns"?
"Compound or Traditional is still hand draw, hand held and shot vertically"
I love how compounders redefine what is and isn't a bow. Don't mention the sights, drop away rests, triggers, drawing without your fingers, 85% letoff ..... I suppose the only thing a compound really has in common is its held vertically, I'll grant you that much
but other than that? a compound isn't really like a trad bow at all
at all
Crossbows are pretty cool weapons. I like about any weapon. That doesn't mean they are a great fit for every situation.
In my State, our biggest challenges are low supply and high demand for limited tags, crowding during season, constant battling for retaining the days we get to archery hunt and access to property disappearing.
Crossbows don't reduce crowding or demand for tags, and they don't increase the supply of tags, archery season days or available land.
We also allow crossbows in all of our many rifle seasons, turkey and small game but seeing someone use one is about like finding bigfoot so its not like we have a big population of crossbow hunters looking to expand their opportunities.
I have no issue with disabled folks using them. They could hunt with rifles during archery season as far as I am concerned.
The issue is not crossbows in the many rifle seasons, it is crossbows in the general archery seasons. Much different impact and dynamic.
In states where crossbows are allowed in the general archery seasons, many former bowhunters have switched to crossbows, most new hunters start with crossbows, and some gun hunters also now hunt the archery seasons with crossbows. May as well have one general season, hunt with your weapon of choice. Everyone would have equal opportunity at the game.
Join now!
Note position on crossbows during archery season!!!!!
Glunt@work
imagine how nice if compounds were not allowed in archery season ... well, unless you shoot a compound I guess
O shit the sky is falling..... again
bigdog21 exactly
compounders invaded ... and they see crossbows now the way archery/bowhunters saw them 40 years ago
oh the sweet irony
jtv- the arguments you make about crossguns are the same ones the traditional guys make against your compound. it is a bad argument. I had a guy at work excited about the prospect of going out with his crossbow after the last gunseason. I asked him how far he could shoot, and he told me 50 yards. I then asked him how many bigbucks he had within 50 yards, he told me none. I then asked him why he thought they would get that close now. crossbows will have minimal impact on the declining deer herd in Illinois. the biggest impact is gonna be the cwd season that is coming to a county near you soon. that is the season where a guy can go out with a gun and kill as many bucks as he has tags for and the state will send in the sharpshooters.
It may be straying a bit from the original argument, or maybe not. But I would be willing to bet that NONE of those who are bashing the crossbow, have tried one.
When I was much younger, I used to bash the crossbow. But as I got older, and because I worked in the outdoor industry at one time, I eventually gave one a try.
And from my experience, they - crossbows - aren't any more accurate than a compound, for someone who has practiced extensively, BUT, they are much easier to shoot accurately, after initial orientation. They also have there disadvantages and I don't believe anyone who isn't serious about hunting will be around long, or at intervals often enough to seriously matter.
And though I will agree they aren't bows, in the classic sense, they definitely aren't rifles, as some would seem to believe.
They are what they are, and that is a short range weapon that propels an arrow with a string.
Personally, I have 3 crossbows, 6 compound bows, and 1 recurve. As a matter of fact, I started hunting with a recurve AFTER having hunted with a crossbow. So who is to say what anyone's intentions, or capabilities are.
I would also agree that the crossbow should have it's own separate season, but I also believe that compounds should have their own separate season aside from traditional archery equipment.
However, for anyone condemning a user of the crossbow to hell, I simply suggest you give them a try before casting such harsh judgement.
Well, I see that Pope and Young are discriminating against seniors and handicapped individuals. Why should P&Y allow folks who can't hold a bow or aren't strong enough to pull a bow back to register their animal ? Heck , I bet handicapped individuals couldn't kill a decent animal anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter. I hope they don't allow these individuals to take up room at the conventions and dinners, the last thing P&Y needs. Maybe, P&Y could get a movement going to ban handicap and seniors from the woods period, I bet enough guys would sign a petition making it illegal, just think of how many more trophy deer and tags would be available for the true hunters.
I wonder, does anyone know when P&Y rewrote the rules allowing compound bows in? Is there a limit of how much a bow can let off?
"Why should P&Y allow folks who can't hold a bow or aren't strong enough to pull a bow back to register their animal ?"
Because it's a club of bowhunters and the bowhunter members of the club have decided what the rules are. We get to do whatever we want because it's our club, even if that means "discriminating."
I invite you to join the club and try and change that rule if that's how you feel. Otherwise, the opinions of non-members don't really affect the club because the club is its members.
Pope and young absolutely allows handicapped individuals to register their animals. They even remove the stipulation that the bow needs to be held or released with hands.
They don't allow crossbow kills because they are a bowhunting club. So a deer killed with a crossbow, rifle, muzzleloader, '65 Buick, spear or hand grenade isn't eligible.
I hunt with a guy that is 81 and doesn't have enough rotator cuff in his draw arm to even repair. He shoots a really light longbow. Working in the archery industry for many years, I met a bunch of folks with disabilities who were dang good shots. Matt Stutzman kills deer with a regular compound and he has no arms.
"Fun" isn't the point. Its the satisfaction and knowledge of knowing exactly where my next meal comes from. Harvesting lean, antibiotic free, non-herbicide residue, non-lead containing (insert other PC terms here) meat. Using a I bow I have learned to shoot well(maybe even one I built), areas I have scouted to understand the game movement, lisc. fees to support the American Model of Conservation-the most successful in the world. A club is just that a club, with members deciding what to support such as record books, youth education, conservation projects, law enforcement to reduce poaching and a great museum. Don't like what they do don't join. I have belonged to many clubs in my lifetime with a wildlife, hunting, fishing theme. Some I don't care for any more so I don't renew.
P & Y isn't the driving force behind poaching, its individual ego, head hog antler envy and willingness to break the law. P & Y is all about following law, ethics and bowhunting fraternal spirit including celebrating successes on mature game animals under fair chase conditions. P & Y will kick you out of the club if you don't follow rules such as those above. If people don't understand that perhaps someone besides this forum can help...
I have only ran into 2 hunters who hunted with a crossbow here in Ohio when I hunted public land (over 25 years).
We have had a few guys in camp use them. But they all had health issues as does Morgan.
I do know we have more crossbow kills than longbow kills (trad/compound).
I also know without crossbows we would have had much longer gun seasons to control our herd.
To me it's a pick your poison do you prefer longer guns seasons or to share with the crossbow?
Since 1976 when crossbows became legal to use in the general archery season our deer herd has increased over 350%.
Little trivia crossbows became legal to use in general archery season in 1976 but a person hand to have a handicap permit to use a mechanical release for a bow until 1980.
Idyllwildarcher, After reading the rules, I just thought that maybe there would be a cut out for disabled bow hunters. Find it a bit discriminatory that they aren't allowed. The only reason I can think of is that some members don't want to be knocked down in the ranks by someone who shoots a xbow. I would think that there are some less able body individuals who would like to feel part of the club. I can think of many disable vets who would like to be in the club and have their deer or elk or whatever registered. Is the club that elite that they couldn't just put a asteric next to a crossbow kill to calm the guys who get lowered in rank? They could say I'm number 50 but I was 49 until that POS disable vet killed with his crossbow. Just playing devils advocate here, I keep hearing how P&Y needs more members and this might do it.
Let's put an asterisk next to all your pretend crossbow hunters in the Boone and Crockett record book.
Why would you assume archers have to accept crossbows? Why not assume rifle hunters should bear the crossbow cross....
Did the NRA tell you wildlife dept. that it would be the best thing for your hunting. Just like they did in Penna. That is why we have it here. Thanks NRA, a-holes'
Bill Obeid, they do! DiReCt from B&C web site. METHOD OF HARVEST Boone and Crockett Club, emphasizes the trophy instead of the hunter or owner and accepts hunter-taken trophies harvested with any equipment legal in the state or province where the animal is taken. (Pope and Young Club only accepts trophies taken with a bow.)
Seems like they don't discriminate, why does P&Y.
Crossbows should only be allowed during archery seasons if the hunter is physically unable to shoot a compound. Each crossbow hunter would need to have documentation from a medical doctor that they are unable to draw a compound that is legal; ie 40lbs. This is the way it use to be in my state and it resulted in very limited crossbow usage during archery seasons. Crossbows are easier to kill with than a compound; just like compounds are easier to kill with than a stick bow. Generally speaking most humans will always take the easiest way in most situations.
"Generally speaking most humans will always take the easiest way in most situations."
EXACTLY! I agree 100%. That's why there's FAR more compound bow shooters than stickbow shooters. Maybe they shouldn't be allowed in archery season then either. If easy is the limiting factor then it should apply to all.....right? And they DARN sure don't "look" like bows so they should be eliminated for the aesthetic factor then also.
Hey! I think I'm getting the hang of this "doesn'tlooklikeabowphobia"! This is fun!
How about banning them because the deer can't see you draw the bow? But then we'd have to ban tent blinds then too. Conundrums, conundrums.
I get a kick out of those that claim a crossbow are not any easier than a compound. Then why in the hell are they the weapon of choice for the elderly, disabled, and kids?
Who says it's not easier? Of course it is! Just like a compound is easier than a stickbow, so let's ban them too!!
We should ban mechanical releases except for the handicap while we are at it!
I would agree to that in a heartbeat. ANYTHING to improve quality on public land, which hasn't happened in over 25 years. Hell even if they only allowed long or recurve I'd be thrilled.
Took my wife to a Wisconsin tourist attraction today called House on the Rock. Basically this guy took what was a scenic natural rock column where his family held picnics in the summers, and built a house on it. Then went on to build gardens and more buildings surrounding to house his antique collections, which he then charged money to visitors to view. These crap collections overwhelmed the experience to where all I wanted to do was get the hell out of there. The resource was exploited to where you couldn't even see the original rock the house sat on. All I could think about was the similarities to the way Illinois politicians have exploited what was once a quality Illinois public resource. The result in both instances is butt ugly.
On a turkey hunting trip a few years back, I had a conversation with an elderly man at a local diner. The conversation started out turkey hunting, but soon transitioned to deer hunting....specifically bowhunting. At age 83, the man had killed at least one deer during archery season dating back decades. He started out as a stickbow shooter and later became interested in compounds. He could no longer draw either type of bow and for the past few years had been relegated to deer hunting with a crossbow on a disability permit.
Indiana was in the midst of a crossbow liberalization movement, so I asked him about his experience with the crossbow. Told me was grateful to still be able to hunt during bowseason....but it just wasn't the same anymore. I mentioned several people had told me shooting a compound wasn't much different than shooting a crossbow. His response was immediate and resolute...."Liars....those people are either lying to you...or they are lying to themselves."
Can't help but remember that gentleman and smile when threads such as this pop up.
Of course it's different, WAY different. Just like shooting a stickbow instinctively is way different than shooting a tricked out compound with sights and a trigger release. But does "different" mean it shouldn't be allowed?
As long as we ban SOMETHING we can all be happy right?!
"Because it's a club of bowhunters and the bowhunter members of the club have decided what the rules are"
and they changed as compounders got more and more in and bowhunter (ie recurve/longbow shooters) were pushed out
P&Y club WAS bowhunting - bowhunters shooting bows .......... and money turned it into a compounders club representing compounders interests
and that's fine .... but don't pretend its something it isn't
WAIT!!! Did I just see Chicken Little running down the road, covering his head?? LOL
"Did the NRA tell you wildlife dept. that it would be the best thing for your hunting. Just like they did in Penna. That is why we have it here. Thanks NRA, a-holes'"
As much as I support the 2nd amendment. NRA is one membership I cancelled as they butted into the crossbow fight. Sooo why would a gun lobby group even get involved-cause they are more like a gun????
" I mentioned several people had told me shooting a compound wasn't much different than shooting a crossbow. His response was immediate and resolute...."Liars....those people are either lying to you...or they are lying to themselves."
Crossbows are not compound bows, "don't pretend its something it isn't "
Crossbow users have their own group, and organizations that can keep records don't they?? Why not use them if you absolutely have to have your name in a book to celebrate the success of taking a game animal??
Do fly fisherman brag about the fish they caught with a spear, net, spinner or lowly worms??? Many a stream has artificial lure or fly regs, no live bait because they are different techniques but draw so many parallels to this argument it isn't funny.
and yes I have a crossbow, longbow, flat bow, recurve, compound, several rifles and a muzzle loader. I respect the separate seasons and spirit of each....
Zim wants to ban things that'd make him thrilled. Anything to improve the quality of the game. Ok. Let's play that game. How about cutting the tags significantly? Go to a very very very limited draw?
Hell, I think it should be illegal to drive your truck to your hunting location. You should have to walk from your house. Or better yet, you should be homeless. Living in a comfortable house makes you nice and rested, and gives you an upper edge on the game.
I think we should ban using broadheads. Making a less than perfect shot should be illegal. A broad head gives you an advantage to killing.
I think an arrow does too. So come to think of it, I think we should ban all weapons in hunting.
You should have to kill them with your bare hands, with your finger nails removed, of course.
And you can't have teeth to eat them either. Gum it to death.
No tools at all, I love banning things for other people.
That's the new American way. If I don't like it, ban it. If I like it, then it's the truly noble cause.
I think having a string on your bow should be illegal too.
The NRA was big in the push for tham here in WI also. While I am appreciative for the FEW good things the NRA does. The bad far outweighs it.
I think I'll head to the gym and have a workout.
If compounds weren't legal I would hunt with a recurve or longbow. I have shot them, but have never gotten into shooting them on regular basis. I'll continue to shoot my compound and when I can no longer shoot it, I will probably by a x-bow and hunt with that.
I have shot a x-bow. It is not like shooting a bow, compound or trad. More like a rifle without the real loud bang, but still pretty loud compared to the bows I have shot. I think they are more of a one and done kind of weapon too. Be pretty hard to reload in the tree stand and walking around with one on the ground would be like pheasant hunting with a 10 gauge.
Wonder which is more hotly debated statistically cross gun debate or the mechanical broad head debate? I'm not a big fan of the cross bow (cripples bow) BUT I own one and hunt with it occasionally. They are cumbersome and awkward to me and i really feel handicapped with one. I've shot a compound's and recurves for a long time and a cross gun seems clumsy. I too felt they didn't belong in archery season but I would bet I'm deadlier with a compound at longer range than a cross gun without a rest. Furthermore, if I had to hit a moving target it would be hit better with a recurve! I know in Tennessee they thought they were going to get a big windfall on license sales and they were wrong! I think the number was like 8000 additional licenses the first year just gun hunters the old and the young mainly I'd bet. I've found a cross gun has it's uses mostly for turkey hunting it will never take the place of a vertical bow for me but is just another tool in my toy collection. And a parting thought i got into bow hunting to get close to game my ability with compound and crossbow don't change anything I like it up close and personal. otherwise I could drive to middle Tennessee and shoot 3 antler less a day with a rifle and muzzle-loader both of which are far more effective than any type of bow. Remember the single biggest threat to hunters (and trappers) is their incessant bickering. enjoy your season and weapon of choice!
Some facts for grins and giggles: (1) I shot recurves and compounds for close to 40-years. (2) I shot both of them better than I shoot a crossbow. (3) There are distinct advantages to a crossbow, namely, A-No need to practice. B-Buy on Friday, hunt on Saturday. C-Allows young hunters, some women and some men to get started in archery. D- Allows some to continue archery hunting when age or injuries end their shooting a vertical bow. (4) There some distinct disadvantages to a crossbow, namely, A-heavy. B-Clumsy. C-Can't shoot behind from a treestand. D- Mostly a one shot deal. (5) In most states, when crossbows are first allowed, there is a surge in hunter population or the sale of crossbows. However, within three years, that number drops significantly due to three factors: (1) Hunter switches to a compound. (2) Hunter realizes it isn't like shooting a rifle. (3) Hunter quits hunting entirely. This topic can be debated ad nauseum. But I wonder about this. Is there a state where beyond a doubt, it has been factually proven the wildlife population has been negatively impacted by crossbows or the bag limit decreased because of them? Has any hunter opportunity been lost? Has any state made it mandatory to use a crossbow? Does any state prohibit a hunter from using the legal equipment of his or her choosing? It is not what is in your hands that makes you a bowhunter. It is what is in your heart. I hate tattoos. But when I see a man or woman with their body covered in them, does that mean I have to get one? No, I just automatically assume they are just out of prison. Same as anyone else. (I hope you realize that is sarcasm. Actually, I figure they are sailors.)
"Crossbow users have their own group, and organizations that can keep records don't they?? Why not use them if you absolutely have to have your name in a book to celebrate the success of taking a game animal??"
creating a compiunds records books, and organizations, and seasons would change everything and right the ship
P&Y is a recurves/longbows club or should be, always was until they allowed the Evil in
K so now we have Dumas from Utah, the tag prostitution capital of the US, who can't control the champion tag pimp Don Peay for ten years from runaway auction tags, telling Illinois hunters how to manage our public land. Really? Pullllllllllease.
And yet another Tennessee hunter trying to compare the P&Y/B&C chart white void wasteland that is Tennessee to Illinois. C'mon man. As Ditka says........"Who ya crappin?"
This is fine for entertainment, but I'm pursuing this whole crossgun abortion issue via legislative channels. Those who oppose them will have a few petitions to consider soon. Waiting on my local legislator to respond now. Of course he is tied up with our bankrupt state budget today.
So being from Utah, and then being from Tennessee is somehow inferior to where you're from, Illinois? Okie dokie. I'll chalk that up to,
You have no intelligent response.
I normally go to the community forum for my daily dose of humor from the lunatic fringe but today I find it readily available on the big game forum.
Lunatic fringe, or just whiners?
As many mentioned this hasn't hurt other states and honestly it's brought in younger hunters like my kids who were too small to shoot a bow but could shoot a xbow.
I used to hate them but it's allowed my kids to hunt with me and that's made me realize they have their place.
Crossbows are here to stay. It is quite clear that many on this forum are closet users of crossbows, or are planning to leave the bowhunting ranks to become crossbow hunters. There is nothing wrong with that, just makes those who continue hunting with a bow and arrow that much more rare. I kind of like it.
Threads like this are friggin hilarious with all the panic, crying posts of the sky falling. lololololololol wow! And you guys call yourselves real men?
meatus---did you see Chicken Little, too? LOL
Yes, it is a bit silly to think the sky is falling if able-bodied folks have to use bows during bow season ;^)
I went to the 100th annual canoe paddling race this weekend. The guy said my jon boat with a 20horse Yamaha wasn't eligible to race. I explained that its hard to portage, has an old motor and chances are it would break down and I might come in last. He rambled on about how rowboats, sailboats, jet skis, submarines and inflatable lounge chairs aren't canoes and a motor or a sail isn't a paddle and the only rules are you need to use a canoe and paddle to race in the 100th annual canoe paddling race. The nerve!
Don't even begin to think that using a compound is at all close to using traditional equipment for hunting... If you use a compound you have no arguement against crossbows for pursuing game.
Stealthycat, your argument holds no water!! JTV is correct they really have very little in common with a vertical bow and a lot more in common with guns. I shoot traditional and also shoot a compound. Oh and yes I have shot several of the new crossguns and they in no way shoot like my recurves or my compound but the compound shoots pretty much just like my recurve except a flatter trajectory. Put a sight on a recurve and it will shoot as accurately as a compound but try and teach someone shooting a compound or recurve to hit a 4" bullseye at 50 yards in 10 minutes, it won't happen. You can do it with a crossbow in less then 5, that is the problem!! Ask the guys in most of the real bowhunters in Kansas what they think of crossguns!! People can talk all they want, the crossguns have had an effect on hunter numbers!! Scooby
Dumas, You have never set foot on Illinois public land, much less experienced first hand its decline every deer season over the last 25 years. So I'm hardly going out on a limb to claim your knowledge of the crossgun's likely impact on our public given our season schedule is most definitely inferior to mine. I travel statewide full time and exclusively deer hunt our public, unless I am lucky enough to draw Iowa like this year. The fact that I apply there alone, for $750/tag rather than pay $52/2 IL buck tags should tell you something.
Not only that, but your knowledge of the hunting politics in your own state is likely inferior to mine, considering I stopped your boy Don Peay from bringing his SFW HB2072 poison to Arizona in 2012.
http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
https://www.cascwild.org/don-peay-the-man-who-would-be-king-baron/
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/conservationist/2012/03/group-founder-declares-north-american-hunting-model-%E2%80%9Csocialism%E2%80%9D
http://www.standard.net/Recreation/2016/02/10/Transparency-still-debated-around-2016-Western-Hunting-and-Conservation-Expo.html
http://www.mtbullypulpit.org/2012/06/pox-on-fox.html
http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2013/03/19/did-don-peays-organization-essentially-buy-utah-division-of-wildlife/
http://westernvaluesproject.org/taxpayer-dollars-down-the-drain-utah-group-favors-privatized-hunting-energy-industry-over-hunters-anglers/
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/us/auctions-introduce-market-forces-to-conservation-but-hunters-cry-foul.html?smid=pl-share&_r=2
http://www.themudflats.net/archives/25891
http://www.sltrib.com/news/4054427-155/rolly-lawyers-criticism-of-herbert-leads
Zimny, your claim that it's all because of the cross bow is ludicrous. Provide hard data that your wounding and harvesting rates have sky rocketed since the cross bow.
Did your game and fish issue a whole lot more archery tags because of the crossbow? Sounds to me like you guys have more of an, issuing too many tags for the available resource Problem more than anything.
I do get a kick out of how many guys talk about how lousy of a hunter cross bow guys are, yet they kill all the deer. Go figure I guess zimny.
"but the compound shoots pretty much just like my recurve except a flatter trajectory"
who are you trying to sell that to ?
your compound is high let off, drawn and shot with a mechanical release, drop away rest more than likely ... you can hold full draw for 3 minutes .... the cables and wheels are crazy on today's bow ....
no ... actually nothing like a recurve or longbow at all, they're not shot the same, they don't look the same, they don't work the same ..... nothing at ALL similar really
P&Y won't ever go back to non-compound, too much money
crossbows will dominate archery hunting in 10 years or less - there is too much money in it as well
compounders invaded and overcome bows years ago ... crossbows will do the same to the compound
enjoy
Yeah unlimited doe tags for everyone sure didn't effect the population one bit ( For you unenlightened that's heavy sarcasm) Than having posters in the past braggin' on how many they kill, come on think there's the problem. Guy's are complaining about low deer pops in Illinois. Hell they shoot even if they still got spots on em'
Getting so angry over something so insignificant is unbelievable. What do you do when somebody gets cancer? Get a life.
Dumas, I think you got this thread confused with some other. "Wounding and harvesting rates"??? Nothing to do with any of my posts. And crossguns for all has no history here yet. Rauner has not even signed the bill yet. ???
Just when you thought it could not get worse.
Guys can use a crossbow , they still have to get into position for a shot. As most know, get close to deer isn't always easy, and just because someone has a xbow in their hand doesn't make deer appear.
But LBShooter they're accurate out to hundreds of yards.
stealthycat: And don't forget that a compound doesn't LOOK like a stickbow either! Based on the crossbowphobic's logic then compounds should not be legal in archery season then either.
I was just revisiting some of these posts and notice you want to disregard any comparison to Tennessee unless it's p&y/ B&C. why not age structure of the bucks taken that's a fair measure. upper mid-west bucks grow bigger no doubt, their very survival depends on it! Bergman's and Allen's rules aside think the age structure of our bucks is likely better. heck, our licenses are cheap seasons are long come on down here lower your standards on score and take home a 5/12 yo buck. What does this have to do with the cross bow topic anyway? trust me none of this is worth having fits over I felt the same way when they did it here and i adjusted even tried it so I could have and educated opinion. Still use a compound and recurve more than a crossbow. good luck
How many of you jugheads have ever carried a cross bow in the woods? They are a pain. They are their own limiting factor.
WV Mountaineer exactly right
Crossbows do nothing that compounds didn't ... they're easier, they're radically different in the way they draw/shoot, faster, easier ..... that compounders bitch about it is exceptionally funny
a recurve shooter can pick up a compound or crossbow and master it in minutes a compound/crossbow shooter can pick up a recurve and not be accurate with it in months
there is your truth
I cannot wait for the crossbow folks to start bitching about the air bow hunters
Re age structure of TN deer-probably about as good as any state. If you are comparing ratio of bucks over 2.5-yrs, probably better than most states. If you are talking antler size, we have TN deer. Our bucks have different nutrition and genetics than deer in the Midwest. Crossbow is not even a factor.
I use a compound bow and have for many years. Prior to a compound I used a long bow then a re-curve bow.
IMHO,
The biggest influx of hunters into bow hunting was due to the compound bow. Reason ; easier to become proficient at shooting a bow. THANK GOODNESS ! (What a time saver.)
Early compound bow hunters heard all of the same arguments, the same rhetoric being used against the crossbow hunter today that I / we heard against compound bows yesterday.
I know a several hunters who use a crossbow. Whether they use it by choice or necessity. If it allows them the opportunity to enjoy the outdoors, God bless them !
I for one do not understand the issue against the crossbow.
Then again perhaps I would not understand the issue of the early man who used a rock to hunt with when he saw a man with a spear or a bow and arrow :^}
"I cannot wait for the crossbow folks to start bitching about the air bow hunters"
and they will - look 30 years ahead when 80% of the bowhunters in archery season are crossbows and someone develops a 125 yard, 500 fps 1" group air shooting contraption a kid can use .... crossbow guys will complain that its too easy, too fast, too simple, unfair, it'll bring too many people into archery season, its not a bow etc
does that all sound familiar?
I agree that compounds, inlines, crossbows, advanced optics, calibers and gun designs have all aided hunter participation, recruitment and kill success. That is a good thing......however, when one thinks beyond whitetail deer hunting, due to increased success and hunter recruitment we have seen almost all other species placed on a limited draw or quota system of harvest, sometimes severely so. To say that all these advancements have had no impact on harvest and opportunity is simply not true. Think beyond whitetail deer.
I'd say the internet, and giving guys information that would otherwise not have it, had been more detrimental to the resources.
Colorado elk is a great example of that. The amount of Nonresidents that apply for Wyoming elk is another.
The amount of guys who now apply for Kansas and Iowa are another example.
I'd say the internet has been worse for hunting.
LOL-Sorry, I have to agree with Dconcrete. It has also just about killed magazines and newspapers. I got to get me one of those fidget-twirler thingies. LOL
Having moved to Alabama two years ago after decades in the Land of Lincoln , I suppose I don't have a dog in the fight anymore. But let's be honest about a couple things here:
The crossbow arguments are much ado about nothing. Illinois has always been primarily private ground and most of it is not in Chicago. Say what you will but the concern isn't more folks in the woods who don't "earn" a big buck, though there are some who get bent out of shape when a Fudd shoots a monster. It's the worry that more land will lease up during the rut making access to ground more restrictive if the wealthy gun hunters of Chicago pick up a crossbow and head to the outfitter's lodge over in Pike or Calhoun county.
Secondary, I haven't seen much definitely showing crossbows are going to suddenly make bow hunting a whole lot more successful. Last I checked these dudes we are so worried will show up in the woods are thought to be poor hunters to begin with so they cannot possibly have a big impact. Unless maybe deer hunting isn't as challenging as we have all claimed it to be.
On a related subject, what do you all think really caused the deer numbers to go downhill? Although damaging to very small geographic areas, culls don't do much to the majority of the state. Oh that's right... Remember kill a doe so the herd won't grow? Yup. It worked. I know a lot of guys including some on these boards who were regularly killing tons of does every year who are now griping about herd size. You own that one, like it or not. Arguments about quality over quantity only work when you have enough quantity to keep everyone happy. Passing on a field of does and small bucks is greatly preferred by most hunters versus seeing nothing in the woods. The only way the numbers will come back is stop killing the next generation before it's born.
Rather amazing how guys get all worked up about the killing of stupid deer and how a deer dies. There's no real trick to taking a deers life. And truly in the end the only thing that should matter to you is how YOU took that life and what you do with it. Just because sometimes a guy kills one with nice antlers doesn't mean that guy is anything special. So why give a shit about how the other guys does his thing????? Geez. If you have to worry about how the other guys goes about his business, you might want to get better at your own business. This isn't a team sport. Worry about your own time in the woods.
One thing that was kinda funny was the post about the guy in the tree and him having three guys with crossbows walk under him while he was hunting. News flash, you need to get away from the parking lot a wee bit more.
I touched a crossbow once at Cabelas. It made me want to rape and kill. A TOOL OF SATAN!
Woods Walker - i imagine compounds felt the same way to you - turn one sideways and guess what they look like ? not a recurve, I can tell you that !
of course, the easiest solution is .... give the weapons that are hardest to use more season
recurves & longbows = longest season compounds = 1 month shorter or something crossbows = 1 month shorter than that maybe
done - everyone's happy, everyone gets their own season and they're respecting those shooting more difficult weapons
I'm betting compounders will hate that idea. Funny that huh ?
I'd bet the farm on that one!
But actually compounds didn't. I had no issue with them and shot them for many years. I just got tired of all the adjustments, gadgets, weight and Snap-On tool chest I had to carry around with me. That, and I just got bored with shooting them and it stopped being fun.
Burt you are correct this rule change will barely affect private land. However, it's affect on the already dismal public land will be significant. That is the issue. The only two good things are it has spurred me to get involved legislatively, and I hit the mother load of draw hunts this year in quality managed states Arizona (2), Wyoming and Iowa. So at least those will divert my attention for this year, and I won't have to watch Illinois' DNR dumpster fire burn.
I think crossbows are the very least of Ill's worries or anyone that lives there for that matter.
Illinois is in SAD SHAPE in many ways! What Illinois DNR did to our deer herd has been a factor in my quitting hunting period! Bow hunting big whitetails is what drove me. The "good old days" of Big Whitetails is all but gone. I just couldn't justify me killing what was left ...... Now, a retired DNR game warden told me yesterday that in probably 3 more years Illinois won't have "game wardens" ...... that 'job' will be under State Police of Illinois control! I've watched our 'quality' deer herd decimated in the last 10 + years. Sad to say the least. I use to bow hunt everyday of the 90+ day season and I was 'very selective' on what I tried to take. The rest of the year I was 'thinking' about Big Bucks and 'scouting' them out. Now I just "don't care anymore" .... so the X-Bow thing is just another ruination to actual 'bow hunting'! I imagine 'some' greedy politicians got their palms 'greased' to push the X-bow thru ...... it's ALL about the money! IF I was still wanting to bow hunt with a disability (which I do qualify for) I would STOP 'bow' hunting. But that's just me and I don't mean for that to be condescending to others that do choose that path ..... I just don't have that desire! Inventions & marketing & sales & 'the consumer' drives all markets .... so we all are our own worse enemy maybe?
I prefer to hunt with a re-curve, Im sure the guys that hunt with a longbow think Im cheating. It amuses me that guys that have a compound thingy with the amount of let-off they have, complain about crossbows. geez guys who cares? Go to the woods and have fun.
Good post HeadHunter. This year will be my 40th year of deer hunting. I can't believe how fast time has flown by. I can say, that i have seen a trend of inventions, sales, and marketing of machines, and gadgets, to mainly help people become better SHOOTERS, not HUNTERS. You don't see hardly anything on how to learn, and understand deer, and their feeding, bedding habits, wind thermals, etc..., that actually describes a TRUE HUNTER, not just a shooter. I like to put miles on my boots, and read sign, instead of riding machine. It's all about shooting farther, instead of doing your homework, and getting closer, for a higher percentage shot, which, in my opinion, should be the MOST IMPORTANT thing that hunters should do. One thing is for sure, if we had a DNR years ago, like we have today, deer HUNTING would not even exist in Illinois today. Today's DNR is a joke compared to the TRUE DNR of the early 80's- 90's. It's just not my opinion, the DNR of today has PROVEN this. One thing is for sure, i will quit hunting before i lug a crossbow out in the woods. Illinois was known for high quality deer, years ago, but NOT NO MORE. JMO
Headhunter, sorry that you've lost the urge to hunt. I guess hunting is and should be more about putting quality meat on the table and not horns on the wall. That's the problem whit hunting in general nowadays, who can shoot the biggest set of horns. Hunting has become all about the trophy and egos that supposedly go along with it. southern il in particular has been pounded by trophy seeking killers who buy up the land , plant food plots and try to grow big antlered deer by passing on them year after year until they think it will impress on their wall. Sad, but true, so in my opinion, the more antler seekers who drop out of the hunt the better. It seems that il has lost a lot of the hype due to CWD and blue tongue, and with the few years of high kills from these diseases the trophy killers are focusing their sights on Ohio and other states, fine with me. The other disease that should be listed as fatal to a herd is horn porn, and no tears shed for the guys who cry over the lack of 180 class deer.
The lack of civility and common sense on some of the topics on here amazes me. I work for IDNR and have for 29 years. I can tell you all this, NOBODY at IDNR makes a move without the legislature telling them how far to jump. Maybe you should look at the special interests that controll the House and Senate, will the insurance lobbies, Farm Bureau and others like them. Or better yet, start by policing yourself and others around you. Public or private land, makes no difference, our deer herd is not what it used to be, but the blame does not lie entirely with IDNR. Spot being a internet expert and do something about it. Start with what you can control.
Headhunter, sorry that you've lost the urge to hunt. I guess hunting is and should be more about putting quality meat on the table and not horns on the wall. That's the problem whit hunting in general nowadays, who can shoot the biggest set of horns. Hunting has become all about the trophy and egos that supposedly go along with it. southern il in particular has been pounded by trophy seeking killers who buy up the land , plant food plots and try to grow big antlered deer by passing on them year after year until they think it will impress on their wall. Sad, but true, so in my opinion, the more antler seekers who drop out of the hunt the better. It seems that il has lost a lot of the hype due to CWD and blue tongue, and with the few years of high kills from these diseases the trophy killers are focusing their sights on Ohio and other states, fine with me. The other disease that should be listed as fatal to a herd is horn porn, and no tears shed for the guys who cry over the lack of 180 class deer.
zim- if you have to rely on the government for a place to hunt, you got no right to expect anything but a place to hunt. because it ain't yours, you can't dictate the rules. you can't complain about quality of bucks, number of hunters or the weapons they hunt with.
JStephens61, I understand the Insurance companies, farm bureau, and others like them, have a lot to do with controlling our deer herd. I have posted that in quite a few different posts before. I can also tell you that Paul Shelton, lied to me on three accounts, in less than three minutes. Brought it to his attention, only to here crickets. He is worthless, and a waste of a pay check. I don't believe a word that Shelton say's, now that he has proven to me, that you can't. You never read or here anything about the DNR fighting, these special groups, to help preserve our game, here in Illinois. If they are, they need to let it be known. My bet is the DNR isn't.
I would like to see use of crossbows for anyone over 60 or any person with a disability. In addition, children under 18 can use one. Would be a great way to get youngsters introduced and then they can move to a compound or Stickbow.
I would like to see use of compound for anyone over 60 or any person with a disability. In addition, children under 18 can use one. Would be a great way to get youngsters introduced and then they can move to a longbow.
Killinstuff, so witty of you, good job.
1boonr, "Don't like it, get private property" This argument holds absolutely zero water when the legislators who pissed away my public are also the ones who made the liberal laws that stole my hard earned private land and gave it away to my unemployed trailer trash ex because the state doesn't want to pay the unsustainable welfare cost to support that ex. Welfare programs they created just to buy votes, and for which I also get to pay for! So this now amounts to triple dipping. I should have just as much voice as anyone as to how that public land is managed. Certainly as much as the "if it's brown it's down crowd". And way more than the Johnny come lately special interest groups stuffing cash in Costello & Anderson's pockets. I was already paying my share for that public land back when bill sponsors Costello & Anderson's mama's were changing their diapers.
Ken, it sounds like someone peed in your cheerios and you're just mad at everyone in Illinois. If you travel the state that much, you could surely find some private land to hunt.
Zim, hard to listen to your complaints about not having big enough horns to shoot. You say there aren't any quality bucks running on public, well, a 21 pt was killed at jta last season I believe, and as you know a buck is only allowed to be shot there if it has four points on one side. Because your not killin any might be just bad luck? everyone thinks there's a 150 behind every tree in Illinois, it just isn't true. Be happy that you have a lot of Punic to hunt. Buddy of mine shot a 140 last year down around rend lake, public land.
Zim if you dont like costello one of the most pro hunting reps there are maybe you would like to see what his dsughter shoots
LB I have a lot of friends. They are all against this crossgun crap and every other reg that undermines quality on IL public. I know exactly where the buck you mention was killed. One of my friends was there when it was loaded in the truck. I know the circumstances. It was pure luck. The buck was bedded and just bumped out of its hole by a bumbling hunter. It wandered through a shooting gallery of no less than three hunters before taking a shot. So what even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while. As other veterans have stated our herd decline has been profound. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see. Just eyes long enough to remember the last 25 years.
Pete the chance that Costello's step daughter shot that on public land is 0.001%. So what is your point?
What I do know is Costello has a pocket full of cash from the crossgun special interest group. The clown I shut down in Arizona, Jerry Weiers, had a stellar pro-hunter record before SFW filled his shorts with cash too. Once again what is your point?
It seems you crossgun lovers for some reason think I am the only one in Illinois against these guns in the rut. It's quite obvious there are plenty of others. Pete do you think this pro hunter Costello's bill is good for hunting in Illinois? If so then we will agree to disagree.
You'll have to forgive zim. He has the worst disposition I have ever laid eyes upon!!
I went through a divorce in 2010. Come to think of it, my bear hunts have sucked since then. All except for this year.
Man, divorce has a long list of ramifications.
Glad to see I too, can jump on that wagon of bitching and moaning ??
Zim that's one of many nice Deer taken off public land and one of the tar it's to use on public is get out before the other hunters and have them bump deer your way. Your against xbows in the rut? Well if I took your attitude I would have to say that since I shoot longbows and recurves I should be against compounds all tricked out with triggers and sights and 80 % let off and peeps and evrything else they come with during the rut. As mentioned many times prior in this discussion, it's so ironic compounders are bitching about xbows lol truely it is. I hope you do well in Iowa and I will be looking forward to seeing the 160 class plus deer your going,to kill.
Definition of firearm (Webster's Dictionary) : a weapon from which a shot is discharged by gunpowder —usually used of small arms.
Uh...please explain how it's a cross-GUN? The projectile of a crossbow, an ARROW, is propelled via energy stored in drawn limbs, just like any other bow (recurve, longbow, compound bow, crossBOW). Just because you THINK it's a gun doesn't mean it really is. Or do we now have "transweapons" similar to transgenders?
I get where you're upset about what's been happening in Illinois and I agree with you on a lot of it, but this is irrelevant.
LB I know JTA extremely well hunted there for years. Randy tries to do a good job. Do you know the odds of the average hunter taking a 125"+ buck there each year? I bet not. Try a very consistent 5%. That is why I moved on and don't hunt within 2 hours of Chicago.
LB it seems you have selective memory loss. As Ive stated many times Im strongly in favor of ANY restrictions that will benefit quality deer management on Illinois public land. And my friends are of the same opinion. I think it would be great if only long bows and recurves were allowed. Among many other things which aren't going to happen due to greased legislators like Costello.
LB your touting of IL public is sarcastic, right? Do you even hunt our public? Have you scouted/hunted 30+ statewide IL public properties over the last 25 years like I have? Have you done 15+ In Iowa over that same time period? If so you would be embarrassed to type such nonsense.
Zim, all I hunt is public land, nothing else. I have seen many quality deer on the grounds I hunt and I have taken some nice new. Antlers are secondary to me, I hunt for the meat first and foremost and the enjoyment of being in the outdoors, I pass up invites to private property each year to like, brown counties due to the ridiculous rules one has to adhere to. Also I have friends who have land in Iowa but to hope to draw is t for me.i have seen and buddies I hunt with see 150 class deer every year on public, there are plenty of wise old bucks roaming the land, they just happen to be very hard to get on due to the pressure,but that's why they call it hunting.
Here's one that came off of public, does this not meet the qualification of trophy?
P.S not my deer one of the guys who hunts public took this beautiful deer.
If you want to post public land trophy photos I have a few as well but it's not really constructive?
This is not a friend's photo it's me. Taken early season on new Illinois public October 3, 2014. Want to know what the bordering private land owner thinks of our public land? On October 1st, 2015 he sent two bulldozers and four guys with chain saws to clear cut ~20 acres of beautiful old growth hardwood forest on 40% grade untillable soil all up against the public. Then he ripped out 500 yards of field tile draining the field above and relocated it to a canyon deep in the center of his land. He left all the 200+ year old trees to rot. They are still there. Not a pretty sight. This property was pounded so relentlessly I didn't even waste my time returning after Halloween 2015. It is now a wasteland.
Not picking a fight here Zim, but what exactly does the actions of an adjacent private land owner have to do with someone using a crossbow for full season?
It would seem that issue is more in line with the ridiculous prairie restoration and subsequent culls to reduce the deer suddenly over land capacity once the woods and crops are replaced with ragweed and native thorn bushes.
Lead by example and start voluntarily using a long bow or a recurve.
Stop trying to get everything banned and outlawed for the other guy.
I really think that, we as hunters, would like to know how much MONEY does our worthless DNR get, in feedback, from the Insurance companies, and the wonderful farm bureau, That we never see or hear about? Remember, it's Illinois we are talking about.
LB just curious. How old are you? Have you been hunting a good sample size of Illinois public statewide since the 1980's? During that same time span how many Iowa and Kansas public land hunts have you been on?
Zim, the only reason I posted that pic was because you were crying about no trophies on public, that's all. You complain about what others do who own land and how it impedes your hunting on public land, are you serious. Nothing is forever and if you don't like hunting public then go buy private, grow monster deer by letting them pass and the. Kill it. Put it on your wall and then you can show your friends how great of a hunter you are. I hunt northern public and have seen many nice bucks, but as I mentioned earlier I could give two cents about antlers, I hunt for the outdoor experience and the meat, what hunting should be about. Never hunted Iowa or Kansas, don't really care to pay the ridiculous amount of money to shoot a deer. Like I said, hope you kill a monster in Iowa looking forward to the pics. Have you ever thought of moving to Iowa, that way it would be less stress in your life worrying about public land. I have been hunting since 1982 on public and I have hunted Wisconsin no matter where I hunt the results are the same, I get a freezer full of great tasting corn fed deer that last until the following season and every now and the I put one down that has some nice horns. European mount and it sits in the wall.
For better or worse I can tell you the xbow has made for much more crowded woods here in TX for archery season.
Texas has Woods? I'll tell you some fun things about X bows. I bought one that supposed to shoot 400fps. I first set up a deer 3D target, two of the thick foam pieces from an old Morell target a year old bail of straw and a piece of 1 1/8" plywood that was in the weather for a few years. Weight of arrow and broad head was about 500 grains. First shot went clear through everything. Next two lodged up to the fletchings. Went and got a suitable target for xbows. Shot it five times. Three I got out using an arrow gripping device until it tore in half. Last two wouldn't come out. The shaft when pulled out has melted target on it. Finally had to sit on the ground, put both feet on the target and using a new gripping device managed to remove them. Found out I have to lube the arrows before I shoot field tips into the target. They are not balanced like a bow either. They are front heavy too. I haven't decided yet if I will even go out with it during archery season.
Yep, that's a trophy deer but it's ruined with what could be the worst mount I've ever seen, revoke the taxidermy license from the imposter:) A little morsel of tacky to top it off is the tag left wrapped around the main beam. Wow, get a new cape and better yet a new cape and form and do it some justice.......just look at the beautiful job on the deer Zim is holding right after it. That one is SUPER quality from the taxi of the skin to the earbutts and eye set, Wow---thumbs up!
RC, yes you pegged that one I was lucky the taxi was great and I felt bad taking it then. He wanted to enter it in a competition he was going to, but I needed it for a contest I entered in Woodstock. Ended up getting hosed by the bowshop DQing it and stole a $1,000 second prize new bow. Wish I'd left it with the taxi for his hard work.
Anyway, LB with all due respect, public land can be managed in many different ways. You are a "if it's brown it's down" guy and I am a quality management guy. You can name call all you want but that's the basic fact. We can agree to disagree on that. But guess what? We are both entitled to our opinions on how Illinois public land should be managed. I'm going forward with several petitions to try and make my side's voice heard. You can do the same if you wish. But anyone who thinks this rule change won't bring major changes to Illinois public land pressure and overcrowding simply hasn't had adequate experience in the field, nor studying these season dates. This indeed will be a disaster, as many bowhunters in those affected states have commented. And the gun hunters in those states had far, far less to gain by picking up a crossgun.
Burt, Very Surprised you don't see the obvious reason. It is a blaring example of the extent to which private landowners will go to insulate themselves from the dumpster fire that is Illinois public land deer mismanagement.
Ok Zim. You dont like much. What do you like? Obviou sly not your ex wife and she probably does not own a crossbow. Take a kid hunting. You act paranoid where you get cheated every time your not on top. How fun are you to hunt with? Think about how people view you. Life is not all about you or me. Be thankful you have your health. At some time you wont and dead deer wont be visiting you.
I agree that private land owners do get pretty tired of public land headaches. Whether outright trespass or just the tons of fence line sitters whose deer always seem to run over the line, I get it. However i just don't see the archery harvest substantially increasing due to crossbows. The brown and down crews have been with us a long time. Just as has been the horn hunters. Most gun only guys I've known weren't exactly patient nor quiet types in the woods and most hunting was more about groups rather than solo adventures. I suspect even with a "better" arrow slinger they aren't going to change.
But...................their season just got elongated by 3 months, including the peak rut they never got to experience. That..........is the point behind this thread that I know many just can't yet grasp. It's a giant game changer for our previously minimal gun seasons.
Name calling? Did I call you a name? As far as management, I have no problem with management, jta does it. I was responding to your complaint of the lack of trophies in public, I simply showed one and commented on many others I see throughout the season. I hunt three days a week October thru Jan, and as far as more hunters in the field due to xbows, let's face it, guys who really want to shoot a xbow can easily get a note from a doctor allowing them to shoot one. For the last few years anybody has been able to shoot a xbow after the second shotgun season, haven't seen an increase yet. As I mentioned earlier. Once the weather drops in temps most public land hunters give it up. As far as brown it's down, no, I try to focus on big body deer.
Now, what has put more people in the woods, compound bows or crossbows? So under your theory, we should have a season for crossbows, compound bows and the rest of the season for trad bows. Here's a thought, xbows last two weeks of the season and the first two weeks of the season for compounds and the rest including the rut for trad.
Just heard that you have to use mechanical broadheads with a crossbow. Just as stupid a argument as this crossbow/ public land one is. Comparing this state to that one, blaming one man for all the problems. Really guys, grow the heck up. Look in the mirror and start working on the problem there. Divided we will fall. Our fault, not a crossbow's.
Yes. Check your posts. Interesting you can type three paragraphs while avoiding the words "peak rut", much less "entire rut". LOL. It's the 800 pound gorilla sitting in the corner. That is the game changer.
Let us take the advice of a good man from calmer times of 2017.
Burt, I'm going to let you off the hook on this one. I lost my Zim handle eight years ago and it got claimed by some other guy last year. I noticed and figured this type thing would happen. Tried to get it back to no avail. So that is not me. I am Zim1. The good thing though is that my handle will remind folks who was here first. I was actually one of the very first Bowsite members, joining back in 1996. Was at the P&Y convention cocktail party in St. Louis and met nobody there that was a member back then. Nice effort though, scrounging that up! LOL
Thought I recalled reading it somewhere. Ha ha.
Anyway, like I said before as a non resident at this point I'm an outsider looking in. I think the bell is rung so as time goes by the crossbow will simply become a common sight over the next decade. I do wonder if JTA will have a different accuracy standard like they used to traditional vs compounds?
Zim, if compound season is only the first two weeks of the season and xbows the last two weeks of the season and trad is everything else in between, then rehearing to the peak or entire rut is irrelevant, isn't it. By the way, can I assume your a tradbow Hunter and that's why your so upset about the high tech xbows and compounds or do you use the compound, with all the gadgets?
LB this is not about me or what I use. This issue is about good management and protecting the rut. That is all I'd like to see. Period. If that were done, I'd comply with whatever the state designated, even just longbows. But this legislation is definitely going the wrong way. It seems enough grease would get these sleazy politicians to turn us into another Tennessee or Mississippi.
As you can see, there is very little support from bowhunters against crossbow inclusion. That is because most crossbow users are coming from the former bowhunting ranks. Once crossbows are included into general archery seasons, compound shooters migrate to them just as recurve shooters eventually largely migrated to compounds. That is the trend and cannot be reversed. Additionally, new hunters to the archery seasons are increasingly beginning their hunting careers with a crossbow, same trending we saw when compounds came on the scene. These facts are why no anticrossbow discussion on this board gains much support, crossbows are what MOST former bowhunters plan to eventually use once they are legal during archery seasons in their states.
Crossbows are here to stay, hunters want them. Do not blame big money and manufacturers for doing what hunters want to support. Many will continue to leave bowhunting for the crossbow and new users of compounds will steadily decrease, manufacturers know this. This is hunter driven, not manufacturer driven, same as the compound revolution. Crossbows will continue to increase in sales and use, while bowhunting(hand drawn bows) continues to decline. Archery hunters and new hunter parents know this and agree, which is why these threads do not get many anticrossbow comments. The crossbow revolution is expanding, no stopping it as most do not really want to.
The Airbow (google it) will be on the scene for the masses in the next ten years or less. You can bet on that. Easy, Easier, Easiest. At that point the crossbow will look like a stone age weapon. It's a very slippery slope.
"Joe hunts the hard way. He uses an Airbow".
Hunters will nearly always open their wallets for the easiest weapon, history proves that beyond a doubt. Blame the hunters, not the manufacturers. The buyers create the markets, producers merely cater to them.
Im going to agree with Zim... I think allowing crossbows is a huge mistake and most probably wont realize it until its a huge problem . I'm all for them for youth and disabled/older people ... A lot of people want to compare it to when compounds first came out but its not the same.
Sounds like they just need to shut down all hunting during your rut then. That way no one has anything to bitch about. Guys complaining that crossbows make it easier but then they want to have the woods to their self during the rut cause why??? it's easier hunting. Zim1 why don't you be the first and start by not hunting the rut yourself? And ask all your buddies not to hunt the rut because it the right thing to do for your deer herd. Make that your crusade. The "last guy in shut the door" mentality of excluding all but a select few kinda sucks. Deer are meant for eating and wearing. They ain't meant to be hung on your wall to watch you eat supper. The whole concept of taking the heads of your enemies as trophies to your conquest is outdated and rather morbid.
Part of your argument is the concept taking heads of your enemies is outdated....but you also state that deer are meant for eating and wearing... Thats kinda outdated as well with food and clothing being readily available..i dont think we're trying to exclude anyone if any gun/crossbow hunter wants to pick up a compound, recurve or long bow go ahead... A line needs to be drawn somewhere and i think that is not letting crossbows used on the whole season...you may be ok with using crossbows but not the next new cool thing they try to push
The meat hunting angle is interesting but really makes me wonder when 99% of the guys in the public land lots I visit are there for sport hunting = trophy bucks as #1 priority. They take does as a secondary thing. There's no question about that it's very obvious.
killinstuff, "Zim1 why don't you be the first and start by not hunting the rut yourself? And ask all your buddies not to hunt the rut because it the right thing to do for your deer herd. Make that your crusade."
Very simple. Because I paid more than my share for the public lands and as a taxpayer I have a voice in how they are managed. And as I've stated this is not about me. My strategy will be to attack this via the legislative route. I've been successful at it in other states. So we are putting together some petitions to start and will be making our voice heard both in Springfield and at select state F&G properties, as is our right.
zim- just because you pay taxes doesn,t mean the state has to keep you happy on the public resource. the crossbow guys pay taxes also. if you hunt for free on a public site you got no right to beech about anything.
Dont get me wrong i enjoy deer meat and I will shoot a doe. But anyone here saying they only hunt for meat is just lying to themselves.. For what you spend in equipment, clothing, hunting tags, gas, the time you spend and whatever else you could go to your local butcher and stock up on meat.
Crossbows are already here throughout the entire archery and gun seasons in many states. The majority of hunters on this forum are silent, they do not care and most will eventually use one.
1boonr, I never stated crossgunners weren't free to sign or not sign mine, nor create their own. They can do whatever they want. As I will.
They're NOT a "gun" in any sense of the word. They are a form of a bow that you don't personally like so no one should be able to use them and you use false words like "crossGUN" to push your point....but it ain't working.
Here's a thought....if you don't like them, don't use them! Buy your own land and then only let people hunt it who use a bow that you approve of. It's a lot easier than being a bow nazi.
Droptine, so your saying that I and many others who hunt to enjoy being outdoors, hunting with buddies and meat are lying, and we are secretly hunting for antlers? LMAO!!!! Yes we could go to the store and buy the meat, but we/I would miss out on the hunt and everything that comes with it, and that is not something you can go to the store and buy. Why do you hunt?
Please.......someone.........shoot this thread and take it of it's misery.
Anybody here ever tease a cat with one of those red lasers? You know, you can keep the cat going in circles and back and forth until it's exhausted, or crazy, or both? This threat reminds me of such cats.
I think I'm going to get my crossbow and head to Illinois to deer hunt this year. Or as I refer to it as, hiking with a heavy piece of crap. Anyone know where zim1 hunts? :)
DL, You are invited to sign the petitions.
Zim, where is your petition?
So, Droptine...how come so many of us buy antlerless permits, or so enjoy hunting antlerless-only seasons when it's illegal to shoot a buck? I enjoy the antlerless hunts more and more the older I get. No pressure. Nobody saying "he'd a been a good 'un in a couple of years..."
LB there are three, but can't open them yet until I complete communications with the ILDNR and my 2 local reps. Soon.
"Crossbows are already here throughout the entire archery and gun seasons in many states. The majority of hunters on this forum are silent, they do not care and most will eventually use one."
Um no, I won't. I already have one, shoulder is shot for this year but still think its wrong to include them in the general archery season for hand drawn, hand held and released bows (of any type). They already are legal in my state for deer, bear and turkey during the firearms season, let the bowhunters have their season for cripes sake...
OK. I'll start some controversy. Hand held and released bows in the purest sense refer to traditional bows (longbows and recurves). A compound with 85% let-off and triggered by a mechanical release (as opposed to fingers) really looses some credibility in the argument against crossbows. Sure a compound has to be "drawn", but the fact that it can be drawn early in an animal's approach and then held at full draw for a very long time to set up a shot before a trigger release is activated is kinda, sorta, not too far off the crossbow thing. Think about it. Just saying'. BTW like it or not, crossbows are here to stay, and there is technology coming that will make us wish for the good old days of the crossbow.
I just found my new bow illinois archery season! 3 inch groups at 100 yards and only 6 inches wide! Finally when that trophy hangs up at 100 yards, he's mine. October 1st can't come quick enough.
100 yards is a chip shot with modern day, scoped, high tech crossbows. The archery season revolution is here!
I hope everyone has a great fall.
I saw that ravin crossbow at bass pro. The design of the stock is bad, to short and trying to site through the scope with your cheek comfortable is tough. Scope needs to be forward but there is no room to move. It's loud when fired and for 2k i think it's a bit over priced. Good thing I don't need to worry about a crossbow. This ravin is like the high power rifle crowd, someone buys a 300 win mag and thinks they can start popping targets at a thousand yards until they actually try it lol. Same with this xbow, try making a 100 yard shot in the woods let alone an AG field with wind, good luck. All I see is a lot of wounded untracked deer.
"100 yards is a chip shot with modern day, scoped, high tech crossbow"
a lot of compound shooters can shoot good groups at 100 yards too
there is a reason 3D archery is dominated by compounds ... they're simply better
No matter how "bad" crossbows might make your deer hunting in Illinois, it's still Illinois and not NJ, home of the "unlimited antlerless" and a 6-buck state. Quality deer? Bah. Many NJ hunters will still be fleeing to Illinois for a chance at a better quality buck.
Unfortunately Jack, IL is also home of the "unlimited antlerless", and while we can only shoot 2 bucks a year, I'm not sure that regulation has a huge impact on producing quality bucks. Let's just keep this great thread going!
