Carbon Express Arrows
Greenland Muskox Archery Requirements
Caribou
Contributors to this thread:
sticksender 18-Jul-17
Stekewood 18-Jul-17
PAstringking 18-Jul-17
Treeline 18-Jul-17
sticksender 18-Jul-17
Treeline 18-Jul-17
sticksender 18-Jul-17
Treeline 18-Jul-17
Zackman 18-Jul-17
Steve H. 18-Jul-17
Charlie Rehor 18-Jul-17
iceman 18-Jul-17
Sage Buffalo 18-Jul-17
sticksender 18-Jul-17
expeditiontraders 18-Jul-17
bowonly 18-Jul-17
bentshaft 18-Jul-17
Nick Muche 18-Jul-17
bowonly 21-Jul-17
PAstringking 21-Jul-17
bowonly 22-Jul-17
Treeline 22-Jul-17
drycreek 22-Jul-17
PAstringking 22-Jul-17
Zackman 22-Jul-17
Tradmike 23-Jul-17
Greg S 23-Jul-17
tradmt 24-Jul-17
longsprings 24-Jul-17
CJ Winand 02-Aug-17
CJ Winand 02-Aug-17
CJ Winand 07-Aug-17
sticksender 08-Aug-17
Medicinemann 08-Aug-17
From: sticksender
18-Jul-17
Curious if anyone knows for certain what are the regulations for archery gear in Greenland for Muskox? On Frank Feldmann's website is the following statement:

"Muskox: Compound minimum 60#, 525 grain arrows, and only fixed broad heads allowed."

The fixed head requirement was also emphasized when I spoke to them prior to booking. And I've seen this mentioned with other Greenland outfitters also. Frank told me they had to agree to this in order to get bowhunting legalized a few years back.

So I'd assumed this was a law, but not sure now, after seeing a program on the Outdoor Channel tonight in which a celebrity hunter from Iowa kills his Ox with a Rage mechanical head.

From: Stekewood
18-Jul-17
Greg, the regulations that you quoted are correct and on our hunt everyone's set ups complied and worked very well. We ran into some hunters at the airport who were hunting with a different outfitter who never even mentioned the regulations to them. All they were told was that they needed to use "4 blade broadheads over 130 grains".

Other than the Iceland Customs officials who cleared our weapons in Keflavik, no one examined our equipment.

From: PAstringking
18-Jul-17
Stakewood is correct. I am not even sure where they would check your setup as you never see game and fish officers or even police really.

I was however asked by airline security to prove that my bow was not "loaded" before allowing it on the plane.....

A heavy arrow and a fixed head would be a great choice as they are tough animals.

From: Treeline
18-Jul-17
Kind of a bummer that traditional bows are not allowed up there.

From: sticksender
18-Jul-17
Thanks, yeah I thought I understood the rules, until seeing the TV show guy sink two Rage heads into a bull muskox last night.

From: Treeline
18-Jul-17
If they allow expandables, they should allow traditional bows.

From: sticksender
18-Jul-17
Agree I think we all know very well that a trad bow in capable hands would easily kill a muskox. In the same way that trad bows are routinely used to kill Moose & Elk & Bison every year. And by all appearances, the Greenland terrain would be very friendly to trad bowhunters, who tend to stalk in for close-range shots. With bowhunting being in it's infancy in Greenland, it might take a little while for them to come around to the idea. Someone should do some gentle prodding.

From: Treeline
18-Jul-17
Not sure how, other than to just show up with my take-down longbow and go kill one...

Might be easier to just go up to Nanavut or even draw a tag for Alaska... Or move to Alaska. Got an interview for a job in Nome coming up - wife may not be happy, but I would love it up there:)

From: Zackman
18-Jul-17
I saw that last night too. I guess maybe it is more of a guideline than a law...

From: Steve H.
18-Jul-17
"...they should allow traditional bows." A Penobscot is a "compound bow" right!

BTW, although there are currently some "subsistence" ox tags around Nome all carry the destroy the skull requirement. Most ox tags fall under "unlikely to draw" odds. The odds got really bad about 2011.

18-Jul-17
I know the guest hunter used a hypo on his Reindeer but did not see what Head was used on the Muskox?

From: iceman
18-Jul-17
and he made a heck of a shot on that reindeer at a long distance

From: Sage Buffalo
18-Jul-17
Also, maybe it's just me but watching and reading reports - they aren't the wariest of animals. Most guys are within 20 yds or less - perfect for a trad bow.

From: sticksender
18-Jul-17
Charlie....I watched the end of video again on dvr and looks like the same head was used by Lee on the Ox, a Rage Hypodermic.

You get a brief glimpse of the head as he draws for the first shot, and again on the second arrow.

18-Jul-17
They are perfect animals for traditional equipment. To give you an example of how easy they are to stalk, we went 4 animals shot at less than 25 yards on 4 stalks.

I can't imagine another animal that you can be 100% on stalk attempts.

I would describe it more of an adventure than a hunt.

From: bowonly
18-Jul-17
Sticksender, I agree someone should do some prodding on allowing recurve and longbows for use on muskox in Greenland. I think what is needed is an organization to promote the use of these bows on North American big game. An organization dedicated to convincing state and province wildlife agencies that these bows are effective and deadly weapons. Further, the organization should try to promote separate seasons for the use of these bows. Hey, maybe even start promoting "scientific record keeping, sound conservation practices, quality hunting and fair chase."

You know, maybe after 50 + years of successful existence, an organization of bow hunters like that could surely produce some gentle prodding to get traditional bows accepted in Greenland. Especially if that was one of it's founding principals! Think of it, a respected group of dedicated bow hunters welding influence to get bows accepted as a valid weapon in North American wildlife management!!

Well, maybe someday. To quote Fred Bear, in part, "If you are not working to protect hunting, you are working to destroy it."

From: bentshaft
18-Jul-17
Sometimes these shows are edited to show their sponsors equipment when it can't or shouldn't be used.

From: Nick Muche
18-Jul-17

Nick Muche's embedded Photo
Nick Muche's embedded Photo
Muskox with a rage. 650 grain arrow. One shot. Down in 60 yards.

From: bowonly
21-Jul-17
Way to subtle, I guess.

From: PAstringking
21-Jul-17

PAstringking's embedded Photo
PAstringking's embedded Photo
This was shot with the required equipment but I'm not even sure the authorities would have a way to weigh the arrows

From: bowonly
22-Jul-17
No takers on my above post? At the risk of being a complete boor, I will answer my own post. The answer is the Pope and Young Club.

The Club was founded on promoting bows which, at that time, were all what are now call traditional bows. These are the very bows Greenland disallows today. Yet The Club remains silent on the matter, other than dutifully listing in the records those animals taken in Greenland. To add insult to injury, The Club auctioned off a Greenland muskox hunt at the Phoenix convention in 2015 without even a mention of disapproval. That is tacit approval of a unfair and unjustified prohibition The Club was founded to oppose.

I know of several P&Y members who have taken muskox with traditional equipment. The Club's own 2013 Traditional Record book lists 60 animals! Why doesn't The Club speak up for it's traditional shooters? The last time I asked, not even a letter had been sent to the authorities in Greenland opposing the prohibition.

Sorry for the rant guys, and it may not bother most guys because they shoot compounds. This thread started out about broad heads which were prohibited. At least you can easily change your broad heads. It is illegal for trad guys to even go hunt there ! And for those who say nobody checks the equipment, it is still illegal, and therefore unethical. And forget about entering your muskox in the P&Y records!

One more thing for the Greenland authorities. What do you think the Inuits used to kill muskox for a few thousands years?

From: Treeline
22-Jul-17
This is an issue that certainly needs to be pushed by P&Y, Rich. Any leverage we can wield through Compton?

I was actually asked to go up there for a very good price a couple of years ago and, after reading the regulations, had to decline.

From: drycreek
22-Jul-17
bowonly, the irony was not lost on me.......

From: PAstringking
22-Jul-17
Bowonly.... you must understand that Greenland is not an independent country. It's connected to Denmark so their rules and regulations are going to be similar. Kinda like how you can't bowhunt England.

Not that this is an excuse... but you have to remember that up until 2012 I believe there was NO bowhunt at all allowed on Greenland.

And we are talking about a HUGE country with less than 55k residents!! It is not easy to get anything done up there. It takes time and hopefully will happen... but most likely will have to come from within.

From: Zackman
22-Jul-17
Rich,

You are a long-standing member of The Club. If you feel this is an important issue, and that it warrants the support of P&Y, write a letter to The Club. Gather evidence, make a case and ask for support. Even ask to head up the cause if The Club votes to support the issue. There are thousands of bowhunting-related issues across NA and you can't expect P&Y to take up every fight without some guidance from its members.

It is a brand new area that has been opened up for bowhunting by people and agencies that were not P&Y, how can you expect everything to cater to all bowhunters when it is an entirely different country--under European influence no less.

I say we are lucky to have Greenland as an option now and to have that opportunity. Who knows how long we will have it?

From: Tradmike
23-Jul-17
I hunted Muskox in Greenland in 2015. I was not aware of the no recurve rule until I arrived in Greenland. I don't even own a compound and never heard of such a regulation. Needless to say I was quite upset. After much deliberation with the outfitter,he decided to let me hunt with my recurve. I was the only bowhunters that week to make a one arrow kill shot. No I have not tried to enter it in P&Y.

From: Greg S
23-Jul-17
I was there in 2015 after Mike and outfitter shared both the story of traditional Ox taken and the one of the one shot with mechanical. Guess the mechanical was shot from elevated position and it apparently deflected off a rib and travelled under skin, not penetrating the chest cavity. A followup stalk and shot was sucessful on the bull. The reason traditionals were not allowed is because it was a stretch to get Bowhunting legalized so they errored on the cautious side. They also prohibited mechanicals on Ox but allowed them on bou.

From: tradmt
24-Jul-17
I agree bowonly, it's completely ridiculous to think a weapon, that has several thousand years of killing things proving its effectiveness, is illegal equipment.

From: longsprings
24-Jul-17
Very interesting story in regards to traditional bowhunters, I have a lot of respect for you guys. You do it the hard way!

From: CJ Winand
02-Aug-17

CJ Winand's embedded Photo
CJ Winand's embedded Photo
Remember to aim lower than you would regularly!

From: CJ Winand
02-Aug-17
Remember to aim lower than you would regularly!

Bow Hunting for Musk Ox is now Open in Greenland! The land of a new bow hunting opportunity

Many times in life, we take certain things for granted. Bow hunting is a perfect example. Did you know in many European countries, bow hunting is actually illegal? Yes, you read that correctly! Imagine if we had to convince our elected officials to make bow hunting legal in all 50 states? This is exactly what the European Bowhunting Federation (EBF) faces in promoting bow hunting across Europe. And remember, this is compounded by all the different languages and cultures.

Back in the 1980s, Bowhunter Magazine’s Conservation Editor, Dr. Dave Samuel traveled to London and Denmark promoting the National Bowhunter Education Foundation (NBEF) course to 13 European countries. One of his students was a bowhunter from Sweden named Ander Gejer. Who would have thought that 30 years later Anders would be President of the EBF and I would be on the NBEF’s Board of Directors. Being part of these two fine organizations is how Anders and I met.

Through the years, Anders has regularly queried me and “Dr. Dave” on biological studies relating to bow hunting recovery rates. Additionally, data included within Bowhunter’s Annual Deer Forecast has been invaluable to the EBF when they try to establish bow hunting in certain countries.

Flash forward to July 2012. Anders sent me an email entitled, “You interested? You got to go!” Upon reading his email, I learned Anders and the EBF convinced the wildlife authorities in Greenland to go ahead and conduct the first ever, “test” bow hunt for musk ox. Because the authorities we very skeptical about whether a bow could bring down a musk ox, this agreement ensured the wildlife officials would be part of the actual hunt in the role of observers. The results of this hunt would determine whether bow hunting for musk ox in Greenland would become legal.

Within Anders’ email he wrote, “CJ, you could be the first American to legally hunt musk ox in Greenland. A limited number of tags are available and only one tag remains, you interested?” Obviously, I jumped at the opportunity.

From: CJ Winand
07-Aug-17
Frank Feldmann asked me to post the following: I am having problem getting regristrated. Can you post this text for me and write I was your outfitter:

Frank Feldmann my Greenland muskox outfitter, got bowhunting legalized in Greenland on www.bowhuntinggreenland.com http://www.bowhuntinggreenland.com>

Frank gives these advices. Musk ox hunting Vital area Experienced hunters programmed to shoot tight for the front leg, knows that a low shot is always preferable, but this is a guaranteed wound on a Muskox. Besides the shaggy coat making them look bigger than they are, the lungs sit higher than on any other animal. We will look carefully into this fact at hunting camp, before we hunt.

Musk ox stalking A dominant Muskox Bull has no predators and is not aggressive, but will chase off a Polar Bear defending his herd. Stalking gently into the average 25 yard range, a Trophy Bull will normally stand his ground or come forward, and face us confidently. The trick is then to remain calm and wait for him to turn broadside for the typical 5-7 sec perfect window, making that shot. The closest shot was at 7-8 yards, and we never had an real encounter. The many bowhunters I have guided all had the adrenalin going facing these extremely powerful prehistoric animals. Alert and fast, Musk oxen will not jump the string and they can be surprisingly smart. Hunters success rate and recovery rate is 100%.

Extremely tough A double lung razor sharp broadhead does the job in 30 sec, but keep in mind that the thick coat has a hair structure very hard to penetrate. .375 H&H, on average takes 2-3 rounds per Muskox trophy bull, if not a clean heart shot the shock effect doesn´t seem to work.

Muskox bowhunting - how to gain higher penetration without cranking up your draw weight Gain up to 20 fps on your bow Most short draw bowhunters wish they had a longer draw. A shorter lupe and finding a "short" release can increase your draw with up to 1.5", gaining much more speed and kinetic energy. I personally like the Winn Archery release comfortable to shoot with, and it provides you with a feel of drawing 5-8 pounds less than you actually are. It´s "short" release for gaining a longer draw, and same time you can crank your bow up a bit with the same draw weight feel as you are used to.

Shoot a small diameter arrow shaft Olympic archers shoot tiny-diameter more aerodynamic arrow shafts less affected by wind. A thin diameter arrow will out-penetrated any regular diameter carbon shaft by 6 to 8 inches at 40 yards in a 3D target. That same principle applies to shafts for Muskox and open country range Caribou hunting. Micro-diameter shafts used in general requires a special insert, and there are products on the market.

Shoot a heavier arrow shaft Kinetic energy is an important factor but for penetration, momentum is more important at close range. A 60-pound short draw bow might lob a 650-grain arrow at low speeds, but with a sharp broadhead that arrow will zip through.

Shoot a cut-on-contact sturdy built broadhead Hunting Muskox, the “Montec G5 Carbon Steel”, or a sturdy two blade have the very least resistance, for a safe and fast kill. Hunting caribou with mechanical broad-heads work very well with the advantage of a bigger cutting diameter, and easier tuning for open country opportunities. I recommend a setup with two sights- one sight for the heavy Muskox arrows, and one for 430 grain Caribou arrows. A sight like the “Axel Amortech Pro” makes it easy to slide in your second Caribou sight, after you have taken your Muskox Trophy Bull.

Shoot heavier broadhead 125-grain broadhead increases the total weight, and balances your arrow for more momentum. A little extra FOC using a heavier insert for the small diameter arrows can also help at close range for Musk ox.

Shoot the right spine A spine that is too soft for your bow will keep flexing in flight, which can effect penetration.

Tune your bow Having a bow shop tuning your bow is important for increasing accuracy and kinetic energy.

Musk ox hunting - short drawlength Some extra pound is a good thing, but we had clients with a 25-inch draw length barely being able to draw 60 pound. To make it work the setup has to be for a heavy and thin arrow shaft like “Easton Deep Six Injection”, combined with a cut on contact razor sharp “Montec G5 Carbon Steel” in 125 grain.

Musk ox hunting - regulations in Greenland In Greenland only compound is allowed, and a special bow-hunting license is required. Frank Feldmann is authorized to issue his clients with a temporary bowhunting license in camp before we hunt. Bow hunting Muskox has a minimum of 60# with 525 grains arrow, and only fixed blades are legal. Caribou with mechanical is 55#, and 430 grain / fixed blades 45#, and 385 grain.

Bowhunters with a good draw-lenght shooting 70# often question the heavy arrow weight In the process of legalizing bowhunting in Greenland, I wrote most of the law text for the regulation we have today. Back then, the government officials wanted a more simple regulation than kinetic energy. I therefore based arrow weight and type of broadhead, on what works on an average at 60#, including shorter draws. As Greenland might have been under influence by the Danish Roe deer bowhunting regulation, I added a few extra grains and pounds for Caribou. Unfortunatly traditional and cross bows were not accepted.

Species we can hunt with bow and arrow in Greenland At the moment we can use compound for Musk ox and Caribou. Small game, polar bear, walrus and seal was hunted for centuries with traditional self made equipment before the local hunters started using guns. However, even with the modern equipment bowhunters use today these species are still not on the list, and we do not know what the future will bring.

I want very much to thank anyone who have contributed in the legalization.

Frank Feldmann at Blockedwww.bowhuntinggreenland.com http://www.bowhuntinggreenland.com/ / mail@greenlandoutfitters.com mailto:mail@greenlandoutfitters.com> / Phone 011 299 284851

From: sticksender
08-Aug-17
Thanks to Frank for providing the clarification. His statement that "only fixed blades are legal" certainly removes any ambiguity on that issue. Hopefully there will be some future discussion towards getting trad gear legalized.

From: Medicinemann
08-Aug-17
If bowhunting for walrus is ever legalized in or near Greenland waters, I want to be contacted.....and I'll bet that Waterfowler does too.

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