Dangers of Elk Hunting...
Elk
With the current thread running about the threat of encountering Grizzlies while elk hunting, I thought I'd ask the question about the 2 legged dangers in the mountains.
How many take precautions in regards to running into dangerous criminals like Lou briefly mentioned in his post? Makes me think twice since most nights I'm returning to camp in the dark and I've got my 2 younger sons with me. We've never considered running into 2 legged trouble in the mountains.
Your biggest danger while elk hunting, BY FAR, is whenever you're driving on any roads.
Honestly 2 legged dangers have never crossed my mind weather it's during a hunt or planning a hunt.
Realistic fears ... hurting an ankle/knee because of the terrain, altitude sickness/dehydration. Cutting yourself badly with an arrow/knife
Unrealistic fears - lightening, black bears, tree's falling on you, criminal element in the mountains
If you're going to have a heart attack etc, I'll take that death in the mtns gladly. I imagine my wife would argue the point ....
Have elk hunted in Colorado for 26 years, via, truck camp, bivy camp, popup camp and have NEVER feared concerning ANYTHING. Never considered packing a sidearm.
Although dark nights seem to do strange things to some. BOO!
It can happen , but rare I think. 15 years ago in the Bighorn Mountains in Wyoming two guys stole most of a hunters camp in the back country with winter conditions. He tracked them down and shot the in their cots sleeping. Moral of the hunting story, don't steal people's shit
I carry a gun with me all the time - I had an aggressive sow black bear with cubs once eat my camp up, popping her jaws and such .... I cannot imagine going around in today's world without my gun on me
I carry. For the longest time I didn't and felt fine about it. But I have it, so why not? In the past 3 years, I've been attacked by a pitbull off of a leash on two different occasions hiking in my local SoCal mountains, which is something I do a lot of. The second time it happened, I started carrying whenever I head into the woods.
I think many will attest that the danger from two-legged vermin is far higher when at home than when in the mountains. Having said that, there is no reason to completely ignore any possible danger that might present itself. Being aware of your surroundings is never a bad thing.
Dangers in the elk woods: Injuries from rough terrain, carelessness, or butchering. Storms and lightening; sudden onset of cold and/or wet weather. Sickness from parasites or otherwise. Animals, from griz, to lions, to snakes, etc.
"Unrealistic fears - lightening, black bears, tree's falling on you, criminal element in the mountains"
Black bears can be a real threat. I can personally attest to that. Might not be common but It is something to think about. I won't hunt without a pistol even in just black bear country now.
I lived in a tent in the Co. mountains for 6 months & the boundary waters of Mn for 6 weeks. The only thing that "raided" my camp in those times was Black Bears & they were aggressive. I had a 357 in camp in Co but that was for people that might want to do harm, not animals. I have been in rock slides, snow storms & near hurricane rain/thunder storms. I have canoed out of the wilderness in a storm across a lake in 3' waves & walked near 15 miles in a blizzard in the mountains. I'm still here but only because the man upstairs was with me. Both of these times I figured it was my last & in the blizzard, as I walked I talked into a portable tape recorder to my 10 year old son telling him how much he was loved as I did not think I was ever going to see him again.. I was wrong. ANYTHING can become a major problem in the wilderness so "try" to be prepared.
I had one close call that made me stop and think...I was hunting solo, 2 miles down into a Wilderness area, trying to work my way into a particularly gnarly drainage before daylight, and I went down hard. Got up and saw one of my arrows was missing...found it sticking through my pants right behind my calf. Stupid crap like that...gotta slow down!
I don't have the collective experience of many on this thread, but I don't worry about too much on my elk hunts. My wife says I worry too little. If I was any more laid back I'd be asleep. I don't worry much, I leave that to other people most of the time. Sure, in some areas, I do worry a little about people. I worry more about my truck at trailheads when I'm packed in for days.
I worry some about snakes in some areas. But I don't hunt grizzly country, so I don't worry much about bears (It can happen with black bears, but I figure I have better odds of winning the lottery). Where I hunt in Colorado, there is one section of a trail through thick oaks that the bears like, and when I'm on it at night I get a little spooky. But my buddy and I will talk, or I'll whistle a tune semi-quietly, and it's ok.
When I'm solo I worry most about falls. I had a close call last year while solo. My feet slipped out from under me, and I rolled half over, and was a foot away from a 20 foot drop. I still haven't told my wife or my mom about that one. I definitely maintain caution on some loose slopes though, whether alone or with a buddy. And I don't hurry through deadfall.
Frankly, my biggest fear is Fear. I don't like being afraid. I've never been lost or in a storm where I feared. I was fogged in for a couple hours last year high on a mountain, but I wasn't far from the ATV which was straight down the ridge, so I didn't fear finding it honestly. I worry more about how I'll react in a situation where I fear for myself and where I have some control.
I've never faced a situation where I feared immediate danger to myself and had control to make a decision which would affect it.
Sure, I've been in plenty of those "Whew, that was close!" situations, where I reacted instinctively and it worked out. But that's it.
I don't know if that makes sense, but mostly, I fear being afraid more than anything.
Jeff - I had a similar experience a few years ago. When we walk down trails elk hunting, my son and I walk like we do here in Missouri, an arrow nocked, on the string. I stopped suddenly and my son ran into the back of me, he wasn't paying attention. His stinger broadhead cut through the side of my backpack. Could have been real bad. From that point on we started walking with our arrows in the quiver.
--Mitch
My biggest danger with elk hunting is spending to much money on tags and my wife killing me. Hopefully I get to kill one before that happens. :)
The most dangerous thing about elk hunting is the inherent risk of extreme addiction. Searching maps, researching tags, the purchase of many required pieces of gear on top of the not so required pieces, and the thrill of a bugling bull in your face at 15 yards. Proceed with caution!
If you're paddling down a stream and you hear banjo music, paddle faster.
Forgetting basic situational awareness. Watch for widow makers/deadfall/grey timber. If you enter, be aware of the risk and be cautious. My worst fear in the woods is being killed, injured, or worst trapped by a falling tree. 2nd worst fear is lightening. Glad I am hunting below 9000' this year. I hate lightening above 10K and I've endured plenty of it. scary as chit. Last would be spooking an animal that responds defensively and hurts or kills me.....moose, bear, whatever.....that would suck. Again.....maintaining high situational awareness (which you should have anyway when hunting rights?) is my best defense. My problem is I'm paying too much attention to potential dangers right close that I fail to see the elk just beyond before I spook it......dammit.
Lightning is easily my worst fear, and I mean im a sissy about it too....Bears kinda scare me if my mind takes over at night or early morning, and rattle snakes, Im plum chicken chit of them jokers!
There was a recent video on FB from a hiker. He was walking on a road with a sow griz and two cubs following him. He was walking backwards to keep track of them. He started walking faster when one of the cubs decided it was fun to go faster too. I sure don't know what the best thing to do in those circumstances? Trying to act aggressive and yell with cubs around could get a bad result. In this case whatever he did seemed to be the best course of action since he's alive.
No doubt, there's a bunch of stuff out there that can ruin your day, not to mention your life, that a handgun can't prevent. However, if I run into an animal, either 2 or 4-legged, that doesn't want to play nice, I prefer to give myself a fighting chance. That's the reason I never enter enter the woods without my 40 S&W on my hip, and the reason I have a compact 9MM concealed carry for 90% of the time I'm not in the woods. I pray I never have to use them, but I look at it like insurance...you don't need it till you need it.
Man, most of you guys must be living right!
My list of "near death" situations is lengthy:
Elk:
I have had two separate elk try to kill me after being shot. One had been shot by my father in law with a muzzle loader and came back to life. The other one I shot twice thru the heart with arrows and still tried to kill me. Pretty amazing how strong, fast and nasty a bull elk can be when he is hurt and pissed off at you! Even when he should be dead!!! The antlers are nasty weapons but their feet can inflict even more damage.
Have had elk jump into the same cover that I was calling from and then come uncorked and start flailing around and almost kick me trying to get away on a number of occasions.
Hit a couple of elk driving. One in May of last year and the second one in June of last year. Definitely a wake up early in the morning!
Elk hate me...
Deer:
Have had several deer try to kill me after being wounded. You would be amazed how strong a deer can be, even when they are mortally wounded. Had one event that would have made a great anti-hunting video where I ended up shooting a buck with every arrow I had with a broadhead, ran him to ground, tackled him, and wrestled him to pull out arrows to shoot him some more. He kicked and gored me up a bit, but I did finally get him down... Strongly advise against any of you guys trying this one!! Better to just give them some time before following...
Lions:
Had a pretty good scare the last lion I killed. Shot it on a rock ledge and she ran up a cliff and into a cave. Crawled in after her and she was still alive. Shot her again coming at me and was able to get out of the way as she came out and grabbed my buddy's hands. She came out after me and fell about 100' to the bottom. This one is also not recommended...
Lightning:
Living in Leadville, I spent a lot of time above treeline scouting, hunting, and fishing. Have gotten caught above 12,000' a number of times in a fast moving storm with lots of lightning. Have actually had sparks bouncing off me and the eyelets on my boots buzzing from having lightning hitting all around me. Probably better to get down into the trees if you can. Not a good place to be up there. My problem was usually that it caught me in the middle of a stalk on a mule deer or sheep and I wasn't about to give up. Actually accounted for several nice mule deer shot during those storms or just after...
Cold:
Have had a number of occasions when I messed up and got wet or turned around and really got cold. You would be surprised how cold you can get if you get wet from sweating or a little rain shower up above treeline in August. The worst was an elk pack out in November up in WY a couple of years ago. Killed a bull a long way from the truck in unfamiliar country in the evening. Started snowing and I lost my GPS and my phone was dying. Was able to get a little out of the phone to get the compass to work every now and then, but really got turned around. Finally got to a spot I could make a call and got much needed help to come out. Might have died that night for sure.
All that aside, I still think the most dangerous thing you will ever face hunting is travelling to and from your hunting area. We all push ourselves coming and going to hunt - travelling late at night after work to get to our hunt or coming home late after hunting our tails off is not good and has caused more hunter deaths than anything else I can think of.
PS - I never carry a handgun in the woods. They get in the way and give you a very false sense of security. Not very effective, even with very well placed shots from a very big pistol.
Have seen lots of critters shot with pistols big and small and not impressed.
I do carry when I am in a city. People are much softer targets and a pistol can actually have some effect.
Wife, son and I were held at gunpoint one time while on a canoe trip. Had a gun pointed at me, then followed on a high speed pursuit till I got to town and pulled into a police station... after stumbling across a cultivated marijuana patch on public land. The perp killed a guy a few weeks later and went to prison. I NEVER leave home without my carry weapon. With that being said, we vaction in WY and I don't feel the need to carry as strongly as I do where I reside in the rural midwest crackhead capitol.
I don't elk hunt, but I carry every day and everywhere, so IF I DID, it would be no different. In today's world, I'd leave home without my wallet before I would leave without my Shield.
The first rule of a gunfight is have a gun. I am not too worried about people but you do have to have situational awareness. Chances of running into a pot patch, meth lab,drug smuggler, human smuggler, mentally unstable person are better than average where I hunt but I would still say under 1%. Poachers are another concern. So 99% of the time I don't need a firearm for defense but I plan and prepare for the 1% when I might.
Ain't nothing but a thang to toss a $1500 bow rig as hard and far as I can when caught out in the open above 10K in lightening storm. Then whimper and cry like a little girl while I crouch on my toes and grab my knees and pray.
Old school thats exactly how my wife stabbed me also, learned a few important lessons that day!
Mitch, I should've showed you the 2" scar where the spruce staub rammed through my calf and broke off inside.
Once had a spider bite me in elk camp that resulted in a big painful welt, chills, fever. Had a showdown with a cougar at 10 feet. Called in a bear while cowcalling and shot him with a recurve when he came for me. Nearly went over a cliff in the dark when foolishly hiking without a headlamp. Had a tree fall right beside me. Had a big branch break off after a big snowstorm and stab right through my tent minutes after I'd exited. Sat down on a nest of yellow jackets. Was chased by a rogue range steer on the Continental Divide, which I believe would have killed me had I not reached a grazing fence and dove over at full speed. Watched a buddy stab his thigh while gutting an elk. Nearly lost another buddy to hypothermia during a terrific hailstorm. Lightning exploded a tree I'd been sitting under a few minutes earlier.
Other than that, elk hunting is pretty safe if you can get to camp without some woman reaching into her purse and instantly veering into your traffic lane head-on at 65 mph...
There are things in the mountains that can injure, maim and kill you..... nearly all of it from not paying enough attention. Some from just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Might be safer if you never left your house..... but what a waste of a life it would be IMO..... this short time you have on earth....
Big hunts are an adventure. Man was meant to seek adventure. Or some men were. Adventures by their nature will always have some kind of danger to them, both real and imagined.... or rather, less likely. There is and can be danger. But not really dangerous, if that makes sense? But then again knowing some folks, that guy Darwin had some theories pretty nailed down.....
Be safe. be prepared for anything. If nothing else preparation keeps your awareness up. Out there you pay attention or pay some price for lackadaisical......
"Watched a buddy stab his thigh while gutting an elk"
probably the most realistic fear ... we've all cut ourselves, doing so in the mtns, and a bad cut is a dangerous thing
Lou - that's a pretty crazy list. Sounds like if I want an "adventure" you're the guy I need to go with. I was thinking of the things you left off your list that you'd told me about - the bike crash in the dark, your incident with the camper in south Arizona, your recent bout with giardia.
Have you ever run into any 2 legged trouble while Coues hunting there in south Arizona? I would think that could get dicey with the drug runners/illegals, etc...
--Mitch
Ah yes the dangers of elk hunting.......It can damage your career or marriage. It can steal all of your focus and attention from anything else. Your finances will suffer and all of your spare time will be spent thinking about it. In addition to everything else mentioned above:)
30 days.......:)
Treeline: I don't think the Elk, or the Deer hate you as much as you may need to learn how to shoot! If everything you walk up on is still alive I would say it's more of a "you" problem... ;-)
https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2017/08/01/court-rules-obama-decision-remove-gray-wolf-protections-wolf-hunting-now-illegal/
Jaquomo, I thought I had it close a few times,,,you got me :)
Yeah, I forgot about knocking myself out and cracking two ribs, alone, when riding my bike out of an elk spot in the dark. Thankfully my bow was ok! That could've been dicey. Also forgot about going upside down at 70 mph but that was a Coues hunt so it doesn't count?
No issues with the drug runners. I saw a couple but they went their way and I went mine. Border Patrol advised me that they won't mess with hunters.
I have had a group of drunk loudmouths pull in and camp right beside me during elk season, yell and shoot guns until the wee hours. This was in a huge NF with lots of room for them to go elsewhere. Rather than confront them I just packed up and moved a couple miles.
One "dangerous" encounter I didn't mention that resulted in an injury, but could have been much "worse": Driving to elk camp on a remote gravel road I came upon a thirty-something, very attractive blonde woman in a dress, with a flat tire. Something we always dream about when we're single. Of course I stopped to help. I was under her SUV trying to release the spare tire when she squatted down right beside my face to ask if she could do anything to help, wearing a tiny red thong over her nether regions. The thong was about 12 inches from my eyeballs. I instinctively jerked my head up, banged it on the undercarriage, and pinched a nerve in my neck.
After the tire was changed she thanked me profusely, offered me a beer from her cooler, informed me that she wasn't "attached" and would love to get together back in town sometime. She handed me a business card with her name, email and phone number. I realized I wasn't wearing my wedding ring. She kept trying to get my phone number, even after I told her I was married. Then she wanted to know where my elk camp was so she could "stop by".
That night the pinched whatever in my neck hurt so bad that I couldn't sleep except sitting up in a camp chair, and I couldn't draw a bow for three days. Had to sleep sitting up for four nights. That was probably my worst real "injury" on an elk hunt, besides the bacteria I picked up being careless while gutting a bear, which had me down with horrible cramps and miserable for four days also.
Attractive women being a pain in the neck is something I have ran into quite a few times over the years :^)
Sounds like she was in tune with the lunar cycle........
Honey, tell me again why you need to see the chiropractor and how you got that nasty bump on your forehead?
LMAO ROTF
I had the same thought as Elkman on treeline.. I think me & my 2 brothers scariest times were on "night patrols" & seeing a muzzle flash.
One night, a few years ago I was traveling across a country road outside of a small town on my way elk hunting. In the headlights I saw a hitchhiker walking alongside the road so I slowed down and stopped to give the person a lift.
It just so happened that the person was a very attractive lady, dressed skimpily. I asked if she was headed to the nearest town where I was headed… she said yes…
We started the typical small talk and I asked her what she did for a living… she replied “Im a witch… and if you touch me you’ll turn into something”
Hmmm… Well, we were arriving at the small town and I just couldn’t resist the temptation anymore so I reached over and touched her leg…
She was right… it wasn’t long after that I turned into the nearest motel… :)
Beat that one Lou :)
My biggest fear is it takes longer than I planned to pnch my tag so I forget to return to work and lose my job. The n the bright side I'd have a freezer full of elk meat so I wouldn't starve while I was looking for a new one. :-)
... and the real story was that the woman heard a loud thump when when squatted down and asked, "What was that? Are you okay; did you hit your head?"
... and Jaquomo replied, "No ma'am, my head's fine."
;^)
Brad, you did turn into "something"! ;-)
Hey Lou didn't you have a run in with a cow moose while hiking after your hip surgery? That sounded pretty intense if I remember correctly.
Any of you here the Jay Gregory story about getting shot . Looneys are out there
Mostly i just don't want to have a horse wreck....
Treeline - that WAS a long night. And helping you pack that bull the next day was not the brightest thing I've ever done!
Yeah, the cow moose deal was pretty intense and, as Adventurewriter said, "primal". I believe she was hunting to kill me. But I left that off the near-miss list since it wasn't technically "hunting", only training.
The Man upstairs is either protecting me in a big way, testing me, or is trying to send a message.....
After I retired I took a part time job as a forest service campground host. During the 5 years of doing it, I had one luney tune pull a gun on me. But when he noticed I had my hand on my 40 Glock, he backed off. (Thankfully)!
Another time I had 5 undocumented types make a circle around me in a dispute because they had not paid for their campsite fee. But when one of them happened to see my Glock sticking out of my back pocket he stated "pistol" and that ended the dispute quickly and they paid the fee and left.
I later learned from a friend on the sheriffs dept that NF campgrounds are one of the favorite places for criminals to hide out.
There have also been at least 3 different encounters that I can recall with those big sheep guard dogs and also a couple with regular sheep dogs while hunting. So I never go hunting without my Glock 27. Never have had to fire it in self defence but I did have to show it a couple of times.
Other than that, I have had hypothermia twice and tried to break my leg when getting it tangled in some blowdown. Never any wild animals or wild women like Jaquomo and Cnelk though. You guys have all the luck! LOL!
Flat tires and finding a tent in "my spot" are my two biggest worries. There's lunatics no matter where you go and if you're afraid of the wildlife just probably best to stay home.
"Then she wanted to know where my elk camp was so she could "stop by"."
a professional could make a LOT of money in Colorado hunting seasons I imagine
"Then she wanted to know where my elk camp was so she could "stop by"." a professional could make a LOT of money in Colorado hunting seasons I imagine
About 25 years ago, there was a motorhome that would roll into the Gould, Colorado area during the late rifle elk seasons... the motor coach had a few 'professionals' that were looking for 'work'
Wasn't always my shooting... Several were shot by others...
I nearly froze to death in San Diego County Mountains... 10 degrees and 20MPH winds while soaked from sweat is not a good thing! Freak Storm.
One time I did have a black bear sow with 2 cubs lay down about 10 feet from the tree I sitting under... one of the cubs got about 5 feet from me. They never knew I was there, but I thought I was going to have a heart attack at 19yrs old.
Soooo apparently the dangers range from being eaten by a grizz or zapped by lightning...... to being beaten with a bat in my sleep from Coach because of lipstick on my camo........
The biggest danger I found was that it ruined deer hunting for me.
Some buddies were staying in this tiny shack inhabited by a packrat. The rat would usually make himself scarce when people were there and they sorta made it a point to leave his nest untouched. One night they awoke to the rat scurrying around a shelf that ran along the walls up high.
One buddy decided that the rat needed to go so he got up and grabbed his recurve. As the rat was froze in the light of a headlamp at 2 yards, my buddy drew and shot. Nothing happened. No impact, no arrow stuck in cabin, rat unscathed, no trace of the arrow. Shot #2 found its mark and as my buddy opened the door to dispose of the rat outside, he found arrow #1. It had passed through a gap in the wall (shack had a few), bounced off an aspen and punctured a new radial on another buddies SUV.
This morning there was a video on tree stand failures.. the first one was a guy videotaping himself. Pretty hi up. He pushed down in the stand and it collapsed he went straight down and disappeared into the foliage. All were not wearing a safety harness. Several years back I hauled a guy out of the NF that forgot his harness at his tent and decided it would be ok to get on his stand. He fell asleep and fell 20' onto his back. Every year we hear of someone that lost their life because of a fall. Usually leaving a family. Last year I found out how dangerous quads are. One minute your riding down a road in the dark, you hit a pothole and down through the sage brush you go. That could have ended badly. We also got in a crash in my buddies brand new pickup. Got into a downpour and the dusty roads turned to slim in 30 minutes. We were headed back to the ranch house and there was a downhill stretch that we started down slow in 4 wd. Totally lost control. No slowing, no steering just gravity taking us. Ended up going off the road and heading down hill into a juniper, fortunately. We were lucky we didn't roll off the road or miss the small juniper and really go for a ride downhill. These are dangers that can happen anywhere though. Safety harness Seat belts Slow down Over confidence and familiarity can hurt or kill you.
Good point......those 4wd trails in the mtns of CO quickly turn to pure grease if you don't chain up. I had brand new winter rated tires on last year and had a similar situation only I didn't build up enough speed to lose total control. But steering was a joke and you had to just go where gravity took you....thank god for ruts in the road. And you don't dare stop once committed or you might be there for good. That was a real wake up call for me. I have been back in some steep sketchy FS roads where a little water could have been deadly real quick.
If elk hunting wasn't a little dangerous it wouldn't be nearly as much fun!
Instead of folks in the backcountry, I'd worry more about drunk or stoned idiots on the highway to/from hunting, or the ones camping right off the road who don't look like they are really there to just enjoy the scenery.
