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Opinions wanted minimum weight for Deer?
So both my kids have a similar sit up 12 year old daughter and 9 year old son. Both shooting Mission Menace, one is shooting 27lbs and other is 25lbs, I beleive 21" and 23" draw. Planning on sitting up with Magnus black Hornet for cut on contact and will limit there range to 15 yards and in. Looking for thoughts on min weight, and others experience with kids sit up?
In Oklahoma it's 30#. At that weight I'm going to limit my daughter to 15 yards. It's going to be tough getting her drawn at that range but anything that will give us the time of day will do. I'd feel a lot better with 35#+.
Tell them to put it where it belongs. Then take 'em hunting. God Bless
What are they hunting? I like the stingers because of the blade angle. Hornets have a much steeper angle.
I'm sure I will be called all sorts of names but I would not let anyone hunt big game with bows that light. Yes, under perfect circumstances you may be able to kill a deer with bows that light. Too risky in my opinion. Have them work up to bows that have more energy. It may take a few years but what's the rush?
Ollie X2- Wise man he is! There Ollie, I started the name calling:)
Most states have minimums, but it not, for me it would be 35-40lbs. That's what I have always been comfortable with as a minimum, for both my wife and my kids.
No rush, they both really want to get into using there bows have been hunting for a couple years with crossbow so that is what we will go with if they can't get poundage up in next couple of weeks. Glad people are being honest thats what I am looking for. I have video of 9 year old shooting a whitetail 2 year old buck couple years ago with 27lbs and getting pass thru.
In my state (MA) it has to be 40# to hunt - compound, trad, etc. So, regrettably, the need a few years to use a bow here while hunting.
But I suspect you are not here :)... And these min poundage rules are funky. I mean, a 27# compound today with a COC head is likely more or about the same energy as say a 40-50 or maybe more recurve/long bow from 20 years ago or even today.
Assuming they are sticking arrows deep into the foam, they are probably fine... So long as they are mentally ready to make good shots under stress.
Yeah I am in Kansas I don't believe that have a minimum weight any longer.
Illinois is 40 # min , however, I believe a perfectly tuned arrow with a sharp coc bh and close 25 lbs Wo I'll do it.
Over 20 years ago, my buddy had a girlfriend that weighed all of about 110 pounds at 5'7" tall. She decided she wanted to bowhunt. So, he got her a bow and she started practicing. By summers end she was drawing about 30 pounds da. Granted, her draw length was 27 inches but, when she shot, it looked comical. I was a little dismayed that anyone who had killed as many deer as him, would let and encourage someone to shoot a deer with such a kid like performing bow. Regardless of how good looking and charming they were. I seriously believed at the time I could have grabbed the arrow as it went by. I probably could have too.
Anyways, the season got in and she promptly stuck two arrows through two healthy does. Perfect shots both of them. Both poked through and one actually fully penetrated and shot out the side of the deer. Now, I'm not a scholar at such things but, I promise if you keep the shots close and, the kids hit the deer proper, it's going to be lethal very quickly. Don't let anyone tell you different. Just remember, a modern bow shooting a properly spines shaft is generating about three times the energy as the Indians self bows at 40 pounds. Last time I checked, they did fine at killing stuff with them. God Blesd
Youth bows these days are crazy-fast. Anything over 25# will kill a deer with a COC broadhead. My daughter killed her first deer at 13, pulling about 28# (Bear Apprentice). Steep, close shot. Arrow grazed the spine and penetrated about 12" down into the spike's chest. He only went 45 yards. If you look close, you can see her arrow still in the deer.
WV my daughters bow at 30# is probably traveling 50 fps faster than your friends 20 years ago. My daughters bow is fast enough the thought of possibly being able to catch an arrow wouldn't cross my mind.
I was disappointed that my daughters bow didn't get a pass through on a fresh pumpkin at 25 lbs, but the arrow did come 5" out the opposite side. A hard pumpkin is likely tougher than a broadside lung shot. Limit the distance for penetration and accuracy and I have no doubt 30# is enough.
Waiting for someone to say speed isn't a factor...
And my daughter is shooting a 24" combination that weighs 435 grains. The arrows I've stuffed weed eater string in are closer to 500 grains.
Speed isn't a factor. I've heard of deer looking at 840gr arrows and just keel over dead, they are that deadly.
I'd say you'd know better than most how lethal your kid's set up is and how disciplined they will be when the time comes. The 40# weight limit has been in the books as long as I can remember, and back then a a 40lb how was comparable to an atlatl.
Today with highly effiecient bows and a COC head like a VPA 25-30# with an arrow weighing 10 gpp pf draw weight will do the job on whitetails. I have killed quite a few deer shooting a 40# recurve with a 320 grain arrow traveling about 180 fps. I am sure the bows mentions above will do all of that. Shawn
I think the short draw,is more of the problem then the draw weight.I think I would stick with a crossbow for a year or two.
Weight is not the only factor, nor is speed. There is a happy medium in there somewhere for each setup. That 840 gr arrow is probably traveling at 180 fps also.
The lighter the arrow, the faster you want it to go to give you the end result you're looking for. There is a limit to all things, just need to know what it is.
Fortunately with today's design, a smaller draw weight bow performs as good (if not better) as my old 1990 [PSE] Strato Flight Express set at 70 lbs...
HDE, I was just playing into your statement.
15 yards, broadside whitetail, no problem.
"I think the short draw,is more of the problem then the draw weight.I think I would stick with a crossbow for a year or two."
I hope this was an attempt at sarcasm, as the draw length of my daughters bow is well beyond that of a crossbow, she's 8.
For years, Kansas had a 45 # minimum draw weight and then in it's infenete wisdom, the state did away with any minimum, in an effort to get more women and youth involved.
I don't care how efficent these new bows are, there should still be a minimum of 35#
"HDE, I was just playing into your statement."
The slowness of Monday strikes again 8^)
Short draw is not more of a problem than low draw weight....both yield the same result. That is a slower arrow at a given weight. 25 lbs with a 400 gr8 arrow and a 2 blade COC head will be more than sufficient to take deer.
My daughter shoots 32lbs at 26" of draw. She can shoot pretty much any fixed head on the market with her set up on deer and be good to go.
In Colorado you must have 35# draw for big game. Last year my daughter killed a Muley Buck with 37# weight and about 24" draw. Excellent shot placement, and you can kill just about anything with a sharp broadhead.
I stand with what I wrote, 21'' draw and 25 # is reallie pushing it.But I do agree that if you are going to try this go heavy on the arrow. With a two blade head coc and hunt from the ground or very low in a tree.And Link I do not know mutch about crosbows but I have yet to see one that was under 100lb.
Exactly drummer which means a faster arrow. It has nothing to do with draw length or length of arrow. It has nothing to do with the ata or draw length just the speed it produces. As stated earlier my daughters bow at 30# will probably throw the same arrow as fast as a 45# stickbow or the 50# 1980 model bow I started with and guess what, that bow had a long draw length.
Is 40# better than 30#, sure. I have no doubt that a modern compound at 25# will effectively and consistently kill a deer at 20 yards and in. I turned my daughters up from 26.5 to 30 pounds yesterday, she will be at 35# by October. I could have probably turned it up that far yesterday but I don't want her maxed out.
It absolutely has to do with draw length.
It absolutely has to do with draw weight.
As both factors increase you increase arrows speed at a given arrow weight.
My daughter just turned 12 and she is a big kid. Her 26" draw and 32lb bow will push her 400 grain arrows faster than a kid with a 23.5" draw from the same bow shooting 42 lbs. At that DL, the bow would have to be at about 45 lbs to be equivalent to her 26" draw and 32 lbs. With youth bows it is hard to be exact with these figures as they tend to not be as efficient due to the adjustability but 1" increase in draw length is equivalent to adding 5 pounds of draw weight.
Link for each inch of draw length, a compound gets an extra 10fps more speed,so to say draw length has nothing to do with it is just wrong.Now that number may change one way or another but the longer the power stroke the faster and more powerfull it shoots.
What's the difference in speed on a difference of 3" of draw bowfreak? I understand there is a difference in power stroke but we're talking what 10-15 fps? That hardly tells me that a 26" draw at 32# is significantly more lethal than the same bow drawn down 2-3".
Must have posted at the same time drummer boy. So my 27" draw length bear my dad used in the early 80s shoots way faster than my daughters bow at 40#s? It appears to me cam design is the single biggest factor and the reason states have lowered draw weight minimums.
Like I've said 26" draw or 23" draw doesn't much matter. 210fps or 180fps either is plenty. Lots of deer killed every year at a speed of 150-180 fps by grown men. I would like to see you fellas go on the leather wall and questions their ethics.
Link if you can get 150fps with a 450-500 grain arrow that would be great,I would not see any problem with that.All I am saying is there has to be a limit somewear KSbow was just looking for an opinion and I gave mine, he has crossbows for his kids and if I was him that's what I would have then use
It has to do with a perfectly tuned arrow broadhead combination. If that cut on contact head hits with all energy in a straight line it will go through. There have been many reports over the years where someone "Drops" and arrow with a broadhead on it and puts it through their foot, how much energy did that take. There was a story last year or the year before where a gentleman put an arrow through a deer's chest cavity to finish it off because of a spine shot, by only pulling the string back 5-6 inches and put the arrow through the deer with the broadhead "sticking fully in the ground" on the off side at 10ft. How much energy do you suppose that arrow had on impact? With a sharp cut on contact head it doesn't take that much energy to push it through a deer's chest cavity. I use to be a believer that heavy lbs was the only way to go. After reading that story I learned differently. The key is perfect arrow flight with the broadhead. DANNY
Let me explain it this way....go buy a new flagship bow that maxes out at 30" draw with 70 pound limbs. Let's say the IBO is 340. Let's say you shoot a 350 grain arrow through a chronograph and it says 335 fps. Set the same bow to 27" draw and normally you are going to see about 7 fps/inch average speed loss for DL. So...the same bow arrow combination at 3" less draw is now shooting around 310.
I get that and it might be meaningful if your draw length were 13". I doubt many with a draw of less than 20" are trying to hunt. The thread owners were 21"&23" so we're talking 2-3" less than a grown woman. I realize there should be a line in the sand but we are discussing peanuts here.
What do you mean it might be? It is for any draw length range. 26 is 3" greater than 23". At low poundage a draw length advantage is way more important than at high poundage. Taking 25 fps off a bow shooting 300 fps is less of a concern than taking 25 fps off a bow when it is shooting 200 fps.
175 fps is enough is my point. Lots of grown men shooting moose and elk with stickbows at that speed. If it were the difference of 165 to 140, I could buy that 140 is a bit low. It's hard to argue that 170-180 fps is too low when that's all people knew before cams were invented.
I'll concede for the sake of ending this thread.
All states should allow a minimum of no less than 35# or 190 fps. If ones draw length is less than 24" you must adhere to a minimum of 40#. Those under 40# must use arrows that weigh 40 grains per inch over the standard arrow minimum of 350 grains, per every inch of draw under 24" while maintaining the set minimum of 190 fps.
It is enough, I agree. I just know that DL difference is MORE important at slow speeds/short DL than it is at high speed/longer DLs. A bow that at 26" shoots 185 fps but at 23" shoots 160 is fairly significant. The speed loss from DL is around 15-16%. A bow shooting 285 at a given draw length and then 260 at 3" less draw is not near as critical since it is only a 10% reduction in speed. Most trad guys are shooting very heavy arrows so shooting 175 fps is not a big deal.
It's impossible for the conservation officers to check for anything other than draw weight in the field. That's why there will only ever be draw weight minimums.
Most store-bought hunting arrows are going to be heavy enough for a complete pass-thru on a broadside whitetail when shot from a well tuned 22" 30# modern youth compound bow. The key is a well tuned bow and a sharp COC BH, but there is no law for that. Just moral ethics.
I've seen first hand that 22" at 30# will fully penetrate a whitetail and stick in the dirt on the other side. Unfortunately, I've also seen first hand that at 27" & 60# you can't penetrate the shoulder.
Lets concentrate on tuning, ethics, and proper shot placement. The rest will take care of itself.
I don't like draw weight minimums for obvious reasons but realize for larger game like elk that there has to be some measurement, even if flawed, to determine killing power.
The vast majority of guys posting on this forum are going to be a better judge (as to whether their kid's setup is sufficient) than some arbitrary number. The issue is that the average guy letting their kids fling arrows in the back yard probably doesn't have a clue so I see the reasoning behind a minimum.