Carbon Express Arrows
Sleep System Weight?
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
Destroyer350 29-Sep-17
LINK 29-Sep-17
Scoot 29-Sep-17
sticksender 29-Sep-17
WV Mountaineer 29-Sep-17
GF 29-Sep-17
oldgoat 29-Sep-17
bigeasygator 29-Sep-17
Destroyer350 29-Sep-17
Destroyer350 29-Sep-17
smarba 29-Sep-17
bigeasygator 29-Sep-17
Lark Bunting 29-Sep-17
jims 29-Sep-17
oldgoat 29-Sep-17
TXHunter 29-Sep-17
Fulldraw1972 29-Sep-17
Jaquomo 29-Sep-17
cnelk 29-Sep-17
Jaquomo 29-Sep-17
justinspicher 29-Sep-17
Hackbow 29-Sep-17
wildwilderness 30-Sep-17
jordanathome 30-Sep-17
TD 30-Sep-17
Butcher 30-Sep-17
jims 30-Sep-17
Destroyer350 30-Sep-17
Ermine 30-Sep-17
gil_wy 30-Sep-17
treestandman 01-Oct-17
elkster 01-Oct-17
jims 01-Oct-17
shakey 01-Oct-17
elkster 01-Oct-17
jims 01-Oct-17
Spookinelk 01-Oct-17
elkster 02-Oct-17
DeerSpotter 02-Oct-17
From: Destroyer350
29-Sep-17
While its still fresh on everyone's mind what is your sleep system weight - tent, sleeping bag and pad? This is by far the heaviest/largest items in my pack and feel like I can go lighter and find items that don't take up most of the room in my pack. I have mine below and without a pad I'm over 10lbs. If I do purchase a pad I will probably be around 12lbs-13lbs. I feel like that is a little on the heavy side and I'm interested in what others use. I'd really like to upgrade to a smaller 1 person tent, 20 degree bag and a comfortable pad by next season. Pretty much anything that will keep me comfortable from June-Nov.

Edit: I'm planning on using a EXO 3500 pack for 3-4 day trips so that is why I'm also interested in items that will compress down.

Tent - Mountainsmith Morrison - 6lbs with footprint

Sleeping bag - Teton Sports +5 bag - 4.1 lbs

Pad - In the market for one

From: LINK
29-Sep-17
My 2 man tent is 5-12, my 20 degree bag is 2-12, my pad is a cheapo 9oz= 9-1 total. My bag was 120$ and tent was cheaper than that. I refuse to do a floorless tent and the 20 degree bags that weigh less than 2lbs cost a fortune. My setup worked fine the last week of CO season at 10200' temps at or barely below freezing in the morning.

From: Scoot
29-Sep-17
Big Agnes Copper Spur = 3 lb 2 oz Western Mountaineering Badger (long version) = 2 lb 8 oz Thermarest Xtherm (large) = 1 lb 7 oz

My comes in at 7 lbs 1 oz. I'm not that big of a guy (6' and 185 lbs), but the bigger bag and pad is so much more comfortable for me! I could shave off a half lb or so by going to a little slimmer bag and a few more ounces by using a smaller pad, but it's not worth it to me for 3/4 of a lb. I could use lighter tent options too, but I'm pretty happy with my copper spur.

From: sticksender
29-Sep-17
Big Agnes Fly Creek 2 = 2.75 lbs. never used a ground tarp with it.
Western Mountaineering Ultralite 20° bag = 1.75 lbs
Big Agnes insulated air core pad = 1.5 lbs
Total = 6.00 lbs

There are definitely lighter, although less comfortable, alternatives....like a tarp tent, and foam pad, to get you well under 5 lbs.

29-Sep-17
My jimmy tarp Hudson teepee weighs 1 pound 9 ounces. Stuff sack and guy lines included. With the stakes I use, it goes upto 2 pounds 5 ounces. My 84 inch by 54 inch silnylon ground cloth weighs a touch over an ounce. I've been using a closed foam cell pad but, just bought an insulated klymit pad. I think it weighs 1 pound 6 ounces. My 7.5 ounce clinashield quilt weighs 1 pound 6 ounces. 5 pound 2 ounces. For ground rig. Good to the teens.

Hammock setup for the same temp rating is coming in at 5 pounds 9 ounces.

I hand made most of the stuff minus the hammock I use and the tent. I have roughly $400 in the tent and hammock. An an additional $150 in the hand sewn stuff. If I had to do it over again, I'd forgo the more expensive teepee for a mountainsmith LT or jimmy tarps version of it. The teepee is just too big for one guy and gear. But, it's nice with stove jack and room. I could've saved $250 on the alternatives though.

From: GF
29-Sep-17
A good pad can make up for a bad bag, but no bag will keep you warm for long if all of your body heat is passing straight through to the ground.... And there are now some REALLY well-insulated pads that weigh next to nothing, considering how much heavier a bag you would need to keep you warm if you skimped on the pad.

And a 1-liter Nalgene bottle filled with piping hot water and tossed into the foot of your bag can work miracles, too. One night, I slept out in a (floored) tent on top of some extremely dense/water-saturated snow at frosty cold temps with just a standard, 3/4 length Thermarest and a kid-sized down bag that I've had since I was about 7. Not particularly warm, but you can't beat the weight of it....

" I could shave off a half lb or so by going to a little slimmer bag and a few more ounces by using a smaller pad, but it's not worth it to me for 3/4 of a lb. "

Amen to that. The idea of a "sleeping system", as you put it, is TO GET SOME DAMN SLEEP. If you wake up in the morning with your energy reserves depleted and your muscles all stove-up because you spent the whole night locked in the fetal position and trying to keep warm, but on (or beyond) the verge of shivering... you're going to have a long, hard day no matter HOW light your pack is.

So just remember what the bike-shop guys like to say: There are 4 degrees of "light" weight: Light, Ultra-Light, Freaky-Light...

And Stupid-light.

From: oldgoat
29-Sep-17
For solo hunting I have a TiGoat Vertex5 that's sub 1# 12oz, titanium Wi-Fi wood stove that's 1#6oz, Kifaru 20° Slick bag 2.8#, therm a rest z-lite sol 14oz

From: bigeasygator
29-Sep-17
You can easily go lighter. How light will be driven by a few things, namely budget and how "comfortable" you want to be.

For tents (I won't touch on tarps) there are a few options that come to mind like the Hilleberg Akto (3.75 lbs, $530), MSR Hubba Hubba (2.75 lbs, $350), and Big Agnes Fly Creek UL1 (2 lbs, $350) that will all save you quite a bit of weight (and space!).

For sleeping bag/pad, I don't know if I will ever buy anything other than the Big Agnes system again. The BA System incorporates a sleeve in your bag where the pad goes. It prevents the bag from rotating and sliding off the pad. I recommend the Q-Core SLX pad (1 lb, $150) and if you want a 20 degree bag the Mystic UL 15 (2 lbs, $400) would be the BA System bag that is most packaable and lightest weight in that rating. Even though I'm only 5'8", I prefer the long versions which means you need the 20"x78" pad. You can find these on sale or discounted fairly regularly too.

There are lighter bags and pads out there but I have never slept in anything more comfortable. You'd be at 5 lbs with that bag and pad and one of the lighter weight tents I listed.

From: Destroyer350
29-Sep-17
Thanks for the input so far guys. From what I'm reading is I'm close to double the weight of what I should be at! After this year I have decided that I really can't get comfortable with a side zip mummy bag or at least the one I have been using. I can't keep it up past my shoulders or zipped. Oldgoat I have been looking at the Slick Bags do you feel like it is roomy and how small does it pack down?

"Amen to that. The idea of a "sleeping system", as you put it, is TO GET DOME DAMN SLEEP. If you wake up in the morning with your energy reserves depleted and your muscles all stove-up because you spent the whole night locked in the fetal position and trying to keep warm, but on (or beyond) the verge of shivering... you're going to have a long, hard day no matter HOW light your pack is." Totally agree GF

I have also nixed the idea of getting a floorless shelter for now. I just dont like the idea of having creepy crawlies in my tent.

From: Destroyer350
29-Sep-17
Thanks bigeasygator. I was watching videos on the Hilleberg Akto earlier and really like the look and durability of them. Only thing I was concerned about is not being able to sit up in the tent.

From: smarba
29-Sep-17
You're going to get plenty of preferences here and all are fairly $$$.

I use Klymit Inertia X pad: by far the lightest and most compact and for me very comfortable whether on my back or side even in cold weather.

Tent will depend on how robust and how bad the weather. Here in NM there are plenty of 2 lb 1 person tents that work great, I use Nemo Obi-1, MSR Hubba is very similar as are several others. For Alaska in the rain it's going to be some version of a Hilleberg.

Sleeping bag again many options. I use now discontinued down Mountainsmith Vision and Wisp depending on temp: 1 lb or 1.5 lb. Plenty of sleeping bags in the 2 lb or less that will keep you warm.

From: bigeasygator
29-Sep-17
Any one person 3-season tent is gonna be cramped, but you should be able to at least sit up (again, there won't be much room to maneuver when you do). Also, if you don't like side zip mummy's I highly recommend taking a look at the Big Agnes System. For me it is a gamechanger. I did a high country mule deer hunt a few years ago in a Western Mountaineering Highlite paired with an Exped Synmat pad and I spent more time awake than I did asleep each night. I was cold, cramped, the bag kept twisting on me and I had a hard time staying on my pad. I decided I needed something different and came across the Big Agnes System. Just got done with a mountain goat hunt in BC and finally got to put the BA System to the test finally and it was everything I dreamed it would be. I've never slept better in the backcountry than I did with the new setup. It weighs about a pound to a pound and a half more than the previous set up but I've learned that certain equipment is well worth it's weight.

From: Lark Bunting
29-Sep-17
This is what I did, it's not the best but it's effective and it didn't cost a bundle.

Tent, Kelty Ridge 2, bought used for $50 on craigslist. 5.1875 (83 oz) with Tyvek ground print. Bag, Cabela's Getaway 15°, on sale for $80, 2.75 (44 oz) Pad, Klymit V Insulated, $75, 1.43 (22 oz) Pillow, Sea to Summit Aeros UL, .125 (2 oz)

These are all weighed on my food scale, which varied from the manufacture's specs by a little. Total weight comes in at 9.4925 pounds with some room to improve. I don't think I paid full retail for anything...maybe the pillow but I thought it was discounted at REI when I ordered.

I'd like to upgrade pads and get a Big Agnes pad that is a bit thicker and comes in at just under a pound. Next year I'll split the weight of the tent with my son.

From: jims
29-Sep-17
I pretty much switched over to ultra-light gear after drawing some recent sheep and mtn goat tags. I quickly found out that it was mighty expensive. I ended up selling gear I hardly used to pay for the investment of quality gear I would use on a regular basis.

A lot depends upon the area I'm going, length of trip, type of trip, and the weather in that particular weather. If you hunt a dry area you can obviously get by with a lot less gear to keep you safe and comfortable than if you are hunting late season in deep snow...verses an area where it's super rainy.

The best all around set ups and one of the best investments I ever made was buying a 4 season tent. They are built for high winds and deep snow. It's pretty tough to beat the Hilleberg line of tents. They are pretty much bomber-proof and don't really weigh that much for the quality of their products. The reason I mentioned a 4 season tent is it is super flexible. If I hunt early season elk in Colorado, Utah, or where it's warm and dry I often use only the fly, poles, and painters plastic floor. I believe my bomber-proof fly set up weighs less than 2 lbs! If I plan on late season snow or area similar to Alaska where it blows I obviously can bring the entire tent plus a footprint.

It's pretty tough to beat Western Mountaineering bags. They are super lofty and light for their warmth ratings. I've always used a down bag with waterproof outer because it is generally more compact and lighter weight than most synthetics. I always put it inside a super light waterproof dry sac and have never had a problem. I also use a Neo-air pad that is super light, compact, and I sleep like a baby!

From: oldgoat
29-Sep-17
Slick bag will compress down about as small as you can hope for a synthetic and the fill will keep you warm even when wet, found that out last weekend, the stove I mentioned just came in the mail today, wish I had ordered it sooner.I have the regular width and first time I crawled into it,i thought it was going to be too constricting but it was surprisingly roomy feeling, think that's because it's so flexible. I actually crawled into it last Saturday night with all my boots and clothes on, the boots were a little tight in there but it worked and I was mostly dried out by morning. I bought mine used, but knowing what I know now, I'd buy again, new if I had too! Plus since it's a center zip, you can side sleep in it!

From: TXHunter
29-Sep-17
Western Mountaineering Sequoia bag Hilleberg Akto tent and Tyvek footprint NeoAir large pad Thermarest down stuff sack pillow

Don't know the total weight but it's not much over 5 lbs.

From: Fulldraw1972
29-Sep-17
My sleep system is 4 lbs 13 oz's.

Kifaru mega tarp. 1 lb 5 oz's Mtn hardware 15 degree bag. 2 lbs 4 oz's Therma rest x therm 1 lb 4 oz's

From: Jaquomo
29-Sep-17
I have several different ones for different conditions. This season in north-central WY it basically snowed or rained every day for nearly two weeks, nighttime temps ranged from 16-24 degrees, daytime often didn't make it much above 40. My backpack system went unused, my sleep system weighed around 3000 lbs and I slept well and dry every night.

AndyJ has the best comment on this - "It all depends on your tolerance for suffering".

From: cnelk
29-Sep-17
I was told this week to sleep in my 0 degree BA bag with no base layers as they will keep your body heat from warning the interior of the sleeping bag.

By God it was right!

From: Jaquomo
29-Sep-17

Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo

29-Sep-17
I've been running the same setup for a few years now: GoLite SL5 with stove jack Thermarest cot 40* quilt Kifaru box stove when needed.

I've slept from 80* down to 4* with this setup. It's not for everyone, but works for me. I'd estimate without the stove it weighs about six pounds, probably nine with it.

From: Hackbow
29-Sep-17
Kelty Noah's Tarp ~ 20 oz

An old Slumberjack down bag, private labeled for small store chain swallowed up by Dick's ~ 44 oz

Tyvek ground cloth ~ 4 oz

Klymit Static V Luxe sleeping pad ~ 26 oz

Total ~ 94 oz or 5 lb 14 oz, Adding a few titanium stakes and some 550 cord takes it to about 6.5 lbs. The whole setup cost me $210. The bag is 17 yrs old, the tarp was given to me, the Tyvek came off a construction site. The Klymit is a recent addition and replaced an old Thermarest pad.

30-Sep-17
Not for everyone but lots of Ultra light backpackers use a down quilt instead of a bag. Look at Enlightened Equipment. Room to move if a mummy feels tight.

Also reiterate that a good insulated pad may be more important than the bag.

And yes you are too heavy. One other thing is that the lighter gear will compress more so not only will you save weight but space/volume in your pack

From: jordanathome
30-Sep-17
Nemo Spike 2 tent 1 lb 10 oz Nemo insulated pad 2 lb 4 oz North Face Inferno 15F Long 1 lb 7 oz

From: TD
30-Sep-17
I wouldn't go floorless unless I had a tent I could stand up in. Crawling around on the ground/mud/dust in and out of sleeping bags and dressing/undressing in the dirt.... been there.... not doing it again. Especially if in an area with ants and other creepy crawlies biters and stingers..... nope.

WRT weight, $$$$ buys ounces/lbs and condenses bulk. Lots of cheaper things out there that provide the same performance..... but at the cost of weight and bulk. Everything is a trade off.

OK, as it stands now.... tent is a 3man Stephenson's warmlite (think a silnylon Hilleburg). Double wall (no condensation) double vestibule and doors..... with ventilation wings screens and floor. It's good for two AND all your gear, easy... and a palace for one. 6 lb with poles, stakes, lines and bag. Quick up and down even in the rain and has stood up to some pretty good weather..... one night wind collapsed another tent, I was fine and took in the survivors.... =D

WM 15 degree bag about 3 lbs. Very roomy, not a mummy. Thermarest x-therm about a lb.

10 lbs of security and comfort in most everything I've even had thrown at me in late sept.

Wasn't always that way. Been some miserable nights before, teeth chattering nights that you would have paid any money at the time to be warm and dry..... found it's best to pay it up front and avoid the "experience". "Experience" is what they call it after you &%$# up.

From: Butcher
30-Sep-17
Pm sent wv mountaineer

From: jims
30-Sep-17
Floorless can save weight and bulk but is it worth it? As TD mentioned above your tent (and gear) can be a muddy, dirty, wet mess. A $2 piece of painters plastic from Home Depot or Tyvek certainly is nice. I always add this to my fly when hunting early season in favorable conditions.

From: Destroyer350
30-Sep-17
Good info guys. I was looking at the Western Mountaineering bags and WOW those are a pretty penny. Do they ever run sales?

From: Ermine
30-Sep-17

Ermine's embedded Photo
Ermine's embedded Photo
I use Kifaru floorless shelters. I really like them when the weather conditions turn bad. When it's cold and wet out a wood stove makes the world of difference.

Western Mountaineering bags are top notch. They are pricey but they will last you a lifetime of use. You can find some cheap prices on them. Buy them "used." I've seen some brand new bags but considered "used."

From: gil_wy
30-Sep-17
6.2 lbs... I added an inflatable pillow so probably closer to 6.5#. Looking at going to a quilt and that will save 1/2# maybe a little more.

From: treestandman
01-Oct-17
I would strongly recommend the Q-core SLX pad. Some may be a touch lighter, but this pad is extremely comfortable and quiet to sleep on. Some of the other ultralight pads are fairly noisy when you move around. Just got mine this season and I have never sleeps so well in the mountains - Jeff

From: elkster
01-Oct-17
What GF said x2

ExPed synthetic pad saves so much heat loss that I've actually been too warm on it unless its in the 40's temp range. Weighs aprox 1 lb. ( I used to like Thermarest).

Combined with my 20 yr old 30 degree down bag from rei, (1.5 lb)I'm warm in a seek outside beyond treeline floorless tent (2 lb) Add another .5 lb for stakes = 5 lbs.

This tent has a stove jack, which i could use with stove that fits my 6 lb. Kifaru sawtooth. As pictured above by Ermine.

From: jims
01-Oct-17
If you are super lucky you can find an almost new Western Mountaineering bag on Craigslist or Ebay. Sometimes mountaineering/backpacking gear websites have coupon codes or sales but WM may be part of the list that the sale doesn't cover. If you spend much time in the hills it is definitely worth paying a little more for quality! I actually sell gear from time to time on Craigslist so I can upgrade....it's worth every penny!

Bowsite is great for recommendations from tried and true hunters. I also always search web reviews of the product before making my final decision.

From: shakey
01-Oct-17
How do the floorless tents or tee-pees keep you from getting wet in the rain and melting snow? Do I dig a trench around it?

From: elkster
01-Oct-17
Shakey, site selection is primary factor. If you pick wrong one, forget staying dry. Pick the right one, and the average rains out west work out. For a frog strangler, scratching out a trench and using my poncho for a ground cloth works. I already have poncho in my pack anyway, so it doesn't add weight.

From: jims
01-Oct-17
As Elkster mentioned site selection is key! I always bring painters plastic to keep me and my equipment clean and dry. It weighs a matter of an ounce or 2. You can get it in different thicknesses at Home Depot for around $4.00. I was in a blizzard a couple years ago on a Wyo elk hunt and was warm and dry under my floorless 4 season Hilleberg Nallo fly plus painters plastic. I was thankful to have a super large fly that size because there was plenty of room for me and all my equipment while waiting out the storm.

From: Spookinelk
01-Oct-17
I am at about 8.5 pounds for my $225 true high country 3 season setup; Marmot trestles 15*(Synthetic)(3.4 lbs) ($105), first light cliffhanger tent with aftermarket(aluminum) poles($ 65after upgrade) (2.5 lbs)and Klymit insulated static V(4.4.r-value)(1.6lbs)($55)..

I have total confidence in this combo down to about 15* , with a bag liner and UL bivy added I can stay out to about 0* at under 10 lbs..

I also have a 20* down Rei Bag, REI uninsulated pad and REI 1 man tent that comes in at about 5.5 lbs. for summer lake hikes with my wife but it is not nearly as warm, trustworthy or comfortable as my heavier setup it is also about $650.

I used a 1 man 1.6 pound tarp-tent(@$250) with the ultralight setup my wife uses for a couple years which got me under 5lbs. total but that tent let me down( got soaked from underneath with the down bag) on my sheep hunt and is mothballed now.... No amount of weight savings is worth putting yourself in an unsafe situation IMO.

I'm a little heavier than average for my kit but sacrifice on food ( one of the advantages of going into the season over objective..lol) and can go in for 5 days at under 35# with ,food, water (to walk in 3+ miles)and a kill kit, including an extra 10x10 tarp for living/ cooking space.

You don't have to spend a ton to have a serious safe and responsible, backcountry setup!

From: elkster
02-Oct-17
Correction: downmat by exped. weighs 1 lb, 5 oz.

From: DeerSpotter
02-Oct-17
Wiggy -0 / 40dg. 2 bag setup Thermarest Solite 6 lb. most the time I just use the -0 bag the Thermarest Solite is silver and is reflective so your body heat stays in the bag. boy is it ever nice and warm. best sleeping bag I have ever had.

DS

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