Contributors to this thread:
I'm brand new to mechanical broadheads. I have shot fixed blades for a long time and now I'm trying mechanical broadheads - mostly out of curiosity just to see if I've been missing anything.
I picked up a pack of Rage Hypodermics (2" 2 blade) on ebay and they were sealed in the package, along with instructions and Rage decal. Having never shot a mechanical I thought I should read the instructions and fitted each with a "shock collar".
When I screwed the heads on my arrows (Easton Axis 5mm) I checked them with a spin tester and was surprised. Only 1 of the heads spun true. The other 2 heads wobbled no matter what I tried. I verified the arrows were straight. 2 out of 3 were simply not straight. The practice head was absolutely straight, but this didn't do me much good.
So my question is whether my experience is typical? Is there another brand of mechanical head that is straighter? Did I just get an unusually bad batch?
There were other things that seemed to be of poor quality (bad instructions, dull spots on blades).
Please don't make this a debate of mechanical vs fixed. I'm looking for a quality mechanical head for deer and elk. Thanks.
Have to be extremely carefull buying off e-bay. Not to descriminate here, but some asian countries are VERY good at copying broadheads, even packaging. Just to look at them, I have 7 or 8 china copies of rage heads, and can not tell the difference.
These are what I bought. Was I suckered?
Is the real Rage a higher quality? Are they straight?
I shot Rages for years and probably went through 30-40 of them. Never saw one that wasn't straight unless it was a head that had been used. When I rebladed mine I would spin test the bare head first and catch any that might have hit a rock etc, resulting in a bent head. It is true what MDW says about fakes. I bought some off of EBay early on and they were really dull. Contacted the seller and mentioned I thought they were fake, and he refunded my account and didn't even want the heads back. Except for the dull blades, side by side they were identical. I ended up reblading them with true Rage replacement blades and they worked fine. Are you sure your inserts are straight and true to the arrow axis?
Instructions in a package of broadheads? Now I’ve heard it all.
Hmm... Griz, now that you mention it the blades seemed really dull to me.
Not sure how to check the straightness of the inserts but when I switched the heads on various arrows it always seemed to be the head that was the problem.
I do believe Rage gets their parts from China (as per Rage rep in an email on another site). I think the email said the metal for the blades comes from China and is stamped/cut/assembled at the Rage factory in WI. There are sellers in China who are selling on EBay the same parts they ship to the Rage factory. Some of the blades come in Rage blister packs, look normal with bar codes and all but are Chi-built Rages. There are U.S. EBay sellers selling the Chi-built Rages as they bought them in bulk. I got like a dozen Chi-Rage chisel tips that had glue on tips (cheap) for like $3 or 4 bucks....they were junk but for only a few bucks I checked them out. I know some folks who got screw on chisel tips and those were much higher quality. The hypodermics were reported so-so. Other Chi-Rages I've seen seem to be ok and users see no difference in performance. Getting 24-36 Chi-Rages for $10, $15, $20 attracts folks (as compared to $250 plus from U.S.-Rage for same BH) but it seems to be a hit or miss deal so buyer beware.
You got fakes. The real ones do this...
Spent five hours yesterday crawling a scant blood trail for a young fellow from a Rage that happened to contact some bone. Young fellow was really disappointed, a complete waste of time. Almost no penetration.
What was the "young fellows" poundage? "Happened to contact some bone"? That's weird it sounds like poor shot placement? But of course it's the broad heads fault. (It always is) And just wondering if it was all to no avail: How do you know exactly "what" he contacted??? You guys kill me...
Put a fixed blade on one of the arrows where the Rage does not spin true. If the fixed blade spins true you know your shaft is good.
keepemsharp can't keepontopic!
I was always against the mechanical movement until I saw a buck my dad shot with a 2-blade rage when they first came out. It looked like someone had stabbed that buck with a machete, I was sold.
Just got a new shipment in this week from Bass Pro Shops of three packs. I'm sure there are cheaper options for getting them, but it's worth an extra $5 a head to know that I'm getting the real deal and not some knock-off. A lost animal due to dull blades or a head that falls apart isn't worth it to me. We all know how important confidence is in archery and knowing what the rage head will do leaves me with zero doubt - just don't hit a shoulder and you'll be fine.
PS - you should see the damage that the 2-blade rage did to the buck I shot yesterday morning. It looked like he had four lungs because the two he did have were pretty much sliced in half.
I used them for a few years when they first came out - all I can say is the title of this post is an oxymoron...
Elkstabber - I feel pretty sure you got ripped off. No less than a half dozen others purchased the same heads and posted back to the ebay reviews that they were knock-offs.
Chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on.
The ones you bought are definitely fakes. I bought from the same vendor, and compared them to real ones. They are definite fakes. Give him a bad review and tell other people they are fakes to warn them. The ferrule is different than the originals, which is likely why they aren't straight. The practice broadhead they include is also very different. If you want to buy the fakes, you can buy them from the vendors that are honest enough to not call them "Rage" and buy them for about a dollar a broadhead. The real Hypodermics are awesome. I have trusted my desert sheep and other great trophies to using them, and I have never been disappointed.
Just to clarify, it's not like stabbing it with a machete, it's like throwing an axe through it!!! ;)
Thanks guys. Well, it's not the first time I've wasted $23. I knew better than to order broadheads from China. These were in a sealed package and the seller says he is in Massachusetts. So I thought it was legit.
I've messaged the seller. He's currently got a LOT of Rage and Schwacker broadheads for sale. There are about to be a lot more suckers. If I hadn't spun them I wouldn't have seen that they were bent. Then I'd wonder why I missed/wounded an animal. Then I'd spend hours tracking a wounded animal. The more I think about this the more pissed off I'm getting. Most buyers will never know if they bought Chinese fakes.
The link that I attached earlier is for this seller, who says he is located in Massachusetts which is weird because my package was shipped from Illinois. I'm going to give the seller time to respond.
FWIW this is the first time in 200+ transactions on ebay that I've been burned.
Also, the people who make the real Rage broadheads should be PISSED.
Great thread, my wife bought me some Grave Digger hybrid's off of Amazon and was proud that she got them so cheap. Almost half price. They look just like the originals but everyone of them the broadhead is loose and can't be tightened no matter how hard you turn the screw. I'm pretty sure she got knock off's as you did.
Midway has a sale right now on some Rages X-tremes real cheap.....$13 for a 3 pack. If Midway got them from Rage Inc and are selling them on sale and still making a profit....that tells me Rage is making a killing selling their Chinese parts supplied BH's at retail....and/or they have alot of overhead and have to sell at a massive mark-up from what they pay their Chinese suppliers. That puts Rage in tough spot.
I buy everything from my bow shop, I support local business,,,, His rage heads sell for 44.00 a package, and he sells a lot of them..... If I shot better than 60lbs I would shoot them, but only shoot 50lbs,,,,,,, Tom Miranda uses them, and I sure he does not use the knock offs,,,,, like you said, lesson learned,,,,,,
Rage recently won a massive lawsuit against China copycats. Rage claims all 100% American made in the lawsuit.
Same problem in the bicycle industry (that I work in). China is copying everything and selling it cheap-because it is cheap.
Next Rage package you look at, see if it says "Made in America" on it.
It's been written many times before but why take a risk with cheap broadheads to save a buck when you spend a lot of money on equipment and hunting trips?
I used Rage for a lot of years. I don’t like the plastic O-Ring type device that locks the blades in place. I switched up to NAP Spitfire Maxx and have not been disappointed. Not trying to rep another product on your page though. Other than the plastic O-Ring. They worked pretty well. Just don’t be careful buying off EBay.
One more reason we elected Trump...lol
Many of the newer Rage models no longer use the O-Ring that you didn't like, including the Hypodermic which is under discussion. It has a hard plastic lock collar that works much better than the old O-Ring.
Shop your local archery shop. If you don't, you won't have a local archery shop. You may really need something in a pinch and are SOL still waiting on something to finally arrive for your trip that you leave for tomorrow. Or you need that last minute repair by those guys who "get it" and will stay open that extra half hour to accommodate your immediate need.
"Most buyers will never know if they bought Chinese fakes."
They will if they pay 23.00 for something that retails for 44.99
Took this 7' with a Chinadermic.
Don't mind me, I just checked in to see if I was right. I was.....
I love the rage commercial that shows a bunch of animals with arrows sticking out of them because they got 8” penetration.
Very interesting comments. I've learned a lot. For the last 15 years I've been using COC traditional heads out of my recurve and have never paid any attention to mechanicals.
But here is what I have learned about mechanicals. Every manufacturer, except for two, has its parts made in China or Korea. Some are assembled in the US. Some are entirely made in China or Korea. (The Rage package does not say where it is made). The problem is that if the parts are made overseas then that factory can produce copies and sell them on their own. The US company can't possibly be watching the production close enough to prevent this. So, anything that is made overseas can be easily copied without regard for quality and then sold to unknowing consumers. Broadheads are simply too important to skimp on quality. It seems that there are two solutions to this: either buy American made, or buy only from a reputable dealer.
But, ultimately, for broadheads you should always spin test every one to confirm straightness or you'll have erratic arrow flight.
From what I've found there are only two manufacturers of mechanicals that make their product entirely in the US. They are Muzzy and Wasp. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
groundhunter and kscowboy: you're absolutely right about supporting your local bow shop. I'm driving 2 hours to my favorite bow shop in a few days.
Bou-bound missed the target
rattling_junkie: that is very impressive. Hopefully you sort through the Chinadermics to pick out the good ones.
Here is a link about the lawsuit win.
To the “..made in China Junk..” comments.
The Chinese, Koreans, etc are well capable and equipped to produce top quality products. It is the buyer that sets the specs!! If you tell the manufacturer that you want one hundred of an item for ten dollars, they will adjust the process to meet that. That’s cost based quality’. But if you say you want an item built to a certain standard, they will do that and charge accordingly.
And because we live in a “throw away” society, there is a huge market for the cost based products. Joe sells a widget for $8.99. Frank sells one for $7.69. Most people look only at the price. A widget is a widget right? How do you think Walmart got to be the world’s largest retailer? Everybody makes fun of Walmart (and their shoppers) , but ninety percent of that “everybody” must be shopping there for them to be thriving.
I’m well acquainted with OEM and different levels of aftermarket when it comes to quality. If someone is selling you something for next to nothing, then that is what it’s worth. But don’t ever believe that the offshore manufacturers are not capable of producing a quality product. And for less money to.
The new Trypans are AMAZING. Best to date for sure.
I'm in the support your local bowshop crowd. Though I've yet to to have a situation in 16 years of bowhunting that warrants blaming the equipment on the business end of the arrow, I'm not sure if that's the place that I would "cheap out." I have been buying the tried and true Rocket Steelheads at near $15cdn for a 3 pack for years, along with the other heads I buy as I seem to have a broadhead fetish. In the end I kill half my stuff with Steelheads. If a person wants to spend cheap, just buy them, why risk it on some online crap?
That was supposed to be link. Worth seeing
Here is the link for ELKMAN.
"The problem is that if the parts are made overseas then that factory can produce copies and sell them on their own. The US company can't possibly be watching the production close enough to prevent this".
These are not products made on a third shift, as some claim. If they were, they would perform exactly like the originals. These are copies made to look like the original, right down to the packaging, but of inferior materials so they can be sold cheaper and make more money on them.
This is a response someone got when they emailed the Rage folks. Take this for what it's worth as far as accuracy. I would consider the overseas manufactured ferrule the main component of the American Rage BH's......followed by the blades, then the screws, orings, etc. I would put it in the context Rage assembles the BH's, but they do not fully manufacture them. That might be why they can't put "Made in the USA" on the packages because they are not 100% US made, nor manufactured.
The ferrules of the broadheads come from overseas. The blades are cut on laser machines or stamped in our machine shop here in Superior, Wi. All the broadheads are assembled, QC’d and packaged here at our plant in Superior, Wi. We currently have 300 employee’s here that assemble/manufacture all of our brands in our 7 acre production building/warehouse. I’m sure I know which site you are referencing and I’ve seen the threads. It’s a bit disheartening to read how little value some people place on the hard work our employees put into manufacturing the best broadheads we can. The Knock off broadheads are indeed coming in packaging that copies ours (not only infringing on patents but also copywrite law) This is why the International Trade Commission just placed a General Exclusion Order which bans the import of these knock offs. With this ruling hopefully we’ll see less of them. This is an issue that will affect our whole industry we just happened to be the largest target so far.
Thanks for taking the time to contact us and hear our side of it,
Edit Added for full context: FeraDyne Outdoors LLC, is the manufacturer of the leading brands of Rage® broadheads, Muzzy® broadheads, Carbon Express® arrows and accessories, Nockturnal® lighted nocks, Tru-Fire® releases, Block® targets, Glen Del® targets, Shooter™ Buck targets, Black Hole™ targets, Hurricane™ bag targets, IQ® Bowsights, Sure-Loc® Archery Products, S4Gear™, Gorilla Gear, Eastman Outdoors®, Apple Archery® and X-Press® bow presses.
Yeah that new shock collar and ferrule on the Trypans are a game changer for sure, and with the added blade thickness and better angle they really improved the entire system. Definitely worth the extra $5 bucks.
Despite my distaste for rage and some of their associates the trypan seems to be the real deal. Time will tell.
Pretty cool "Made in America" promo vid by Wasp.
A guy posted this on FB. This is a Rage knockoff after killing a small buck. Don’t buy these knockoffs. The deer deserve better!
I've had an American Rage do that before on pass thru. It hit something in the dirt. For that matter I've had a G5 break a blade too.
good video,,, two years ago went to 125 grain Wasp Boss, best thing I did,,,,, shot thru both shoulders of my last sheep,,,,,,,
I guess ive never understood the advantages of mechanical broadheads? Is it because they fly well out of an untuned bow? Back in the ninetys I was shooting zwickey eskimos out of a 94 pound pse mach six with an overdraw and they flew like a dart... just my opinion but to me these mechanical look like cheap junk.. I see the holes they leave on deer when hit behing the shoulder... will they go through both front shoulders and exit like an old two blade broadhead? Just wondering why people think they are so superior to what we had in the first place?
I like an 1-1/2" 3 blade head.
I don't shoot thru the shoulders; nothing behind them that I want to hit.