Contributors to this thread:
Can crossbows save deerhunting.
I recently noticed people buying crossbows usually were the really lousy shots who "stuck" deer but never recovered many. Maybe crippling rate could dramatically decrease! Maybe more net deer survive. These were guys you never see at a shop or a range. Thoughts?
I think they are self limiting. Meaning they are so cumbersome to carry and hunt with, I think outside of the eastern whitetail hunters, they'll have a limited market in time. God Bless
I think xbows are a good thing for kids and people that dont have a lot of time to invest in practice. At the end of the day the shooter controls the accuracy.
Does deer hunting need saving?
I don't believe crossbows are anything special. In my neck of the woods, a crossbow may afford the advantage of hunting on the ground without a blind but that's about it.
That stated, my daughter started hunting with a crossbow last year and she hunted(s) with it straight through muzzleloader and general firearm season. That crossbow and her .22 are her only weapons.
I think you're both wrong. Many kids are using them in Texas, as well as grown folks. They are as deadly as any other bow, and easier to shoot. So,... I think easy appeals to lots of folks and I don't think all those kids are gonna take up a compound or stickbow when they can shoot a crossbow with little to no practice. To clarify, I don't see me ever wanting one again. I bought one when my shoulder failed me, but didn't like it, (as WV said, too clunky), but I decided to go to an easier drawing compound and reduced draw weight. I'm happy I did, because I'm still bowhunting. The guy I sold mine to killed back to back pronghorn with his using NAP Spitfires and penetration was NOT an issue. One went into the high shoulder and poleaxed the goat, another was a double lung that completely shredded them. The goat ran 300 yards, but he was dead from the moment the bolt went through him. Crossbows are here to stay, like it or not.
I dont have a problem with them at all. I'm glad to see young folks hunting, regardless what the weapon may be.
while they are a tool for killing deer, I cant stand them... to many they are an easier way of shooting and ruin the intent of ARCHERY seasons (vertical bows) .... as a matter of FACT, I find more lost deer from those using crossguns than those who use vertical bows.... I know of two right now with bolts still in 'em on the state land I hunt, one is close to a stand location of mine, a very small "fawn" .. .... I also found two last season (stumbled across em), bolts still in 'em, high hits with no penetration) ... if one wants to use a shoulder fired tool, use 'em in the gun season with the rest of the shoulder fired tools ...
Kids and the elderly are at different ends of the spectrum. I my opinion, kids starting out with crossbows is just more of the instant gratification so common today. But they do help every kid get a trophy.
I kinda feel the same as you JTV. I just see the xbows as a way for gun hunters, who wouldn't take the time to learn how to become proficient with a bow, to become "bow hunters".
I’m not a hater. But I think it’s a crock they are allowed during archery seasons. I don’t see what y’all see down here in TX. What I see are a bunch of rifle-only hunters now buying crossbows just so they can hunt a month early. No practice, no commitment.
2X ^ Hate them but to many MFG. now & to much lobbyist power. SUCKS
I caught 2 crossbow hunters that hunt the neighbors trespassing on my land the other day when I walked out. One was smoking a cigarette, the other one looked like he has never drove by a Mcdonalds without stopping. They were looking in their own words for a "bruiser buck" that they had "smoked". Said he was "dumping" blood. They said they had been on the trail for over 500 yds. I asked them to show me the blood trail. Not much blood and it was dark blood. Not good. I politely pointed them back toward the property line and told them better luck next time. So to answer your question NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The biggest issues with deer hunting in my state are land access, deer population decline, crowding during season, development of land and competition for higher quality tags.
If crossbows can help with any of those, I'm open to the discussion.
I think crossbows will save the hunting of deer, elk, antelope, grizzly(brown)bear, black bear, all sheep, mountain goat, alligator, turkey, moose, caribou, muskox, gar and carp. I have no idea on the other species.
Crossbows are a real killer of bowhunting. Bowhunter numbers are dropping like flies.
I people who converted when their joints didn’t allow drawing a bow. A couple who cut down their hunting and archery practice time. Most of them were very good bow shots.
My brother was a pitcher and now has the shoulder to prove it. This summer he rolled my atv and totally dislocated his other shoulder. He was a recurve shooter but is noew relagated to a crossbow. He says it is like hauling a log through the woods.
Only hunters/conservationist can save any hunting. Look what happen the bison herd, whitetail deer herds and wild turkeys in North America. Who saved them- the American hunter/conservationist. A crossbow is not the saving grace for deer hunting, it is only a hunting instrument controlled by man.
Look at all of the animals in the world that have been saved by hunters/conservationist.
More deer are crippled by rifles. It's not the tool.
Save deer hunting? No. (1) The proliferation of crossbow usage is not much different from the improvement in feeders and trail cameras. Just a facet that appeals to some and to some who are physically limited. Not at all much different from the improvement in compounds. For some they are an advantage, for some a handicap and for most, usually, those who have never hunted with one, completely misunderstood. They result in no more wounding loss or accidents than traditional equipment-by numbers comparison.
(2) If there is anything that will save bowhunting ,if it needs saving, it may be the Archery in the Schools Program. It is a huge success in some areas in terms of introducing youngsters to archery and encouraging many of them to start hunting.
(3) No single piece of equipment can save any sport/business or industry. As habitat shrinks and rural upbringing fades away, obviously a way of living and thinking is going to change. Those involved in the business end of the of the shrinking industry will try to rekindle interest. Fake television shows where the "hero" always gets the monster is a perfect example. Make it look easy, devise new and miracle producing schemes, advocate 80-yard shots, come up with bows that shoot faster than the speed of sound etc.
(4) Buffalo pretty much hit with, "Only hunters and conservationists can save hunting." And that is only true if those hunters and conservationists work hard to get more youth involved. And that, mommies and daddies, boys and girls, is the problem. A large majority of today's youth don't want to get involved. They want to text and play video games and sit on their lazy asses. Far easier, on a summer night, to spend hours on some social media than to go out and catch lightning bugs.
(5) Don't blame or praise any one piece of equipment for anything. It is not what you have in your hands. It is what you have in your heart.
I teach in the same school I grew up attending. Most of us hunted various game back in the 80s and early 90s. Very few of my students hunt. I don’t think crossbows will get a bunch of the kids out in the woods, but if it gets a few out and off their cell phones then I’m good with that. Personally, I don’t have any desire to shoot one but don’t feel threatened by them either.
Just my opinion, but when i saw a cross bow commercial on TV the other night, this guy was shooting very long shots with one. I think we will see a lot of wounded, and find a large number of bad hit deer, that wasn't recovered, due to the people that didn't want to take the time to practice with a vertical bow, bought a cross bow after seeing they can take long shots with a cross bow. If these same people that didn't want to take the time to practice with a vertical bow, get a X-bow, they won't practice with it either, and will be taking even longer, in-accurate shots.
My one big issue with them is the use of the scope. They want to use that during "bow" season, lose the scope.... I don't think anything will save hunting... as most everything, we will eventually ruin, it in time....
I am not a fan and fought hard in PA as a United Bowhunter of PA Member, Regional Director and Director to stop the intrusion or at the very minimum have a xbow tag that would allow true data to be collected on its use. The PGC decided to make it a "bow" and didn't care about data, so no tag. That said, I don't see it being as big a problem for hunting as I thought it would be, short term. I do agree that most kids who start with one won't ever move onto vertical. What I do see, and find on a regular basis, are bucks poached with crossbows. In my area of SE PA, I have found numerous bucks, near roads, with either a bolt in them, or laying nearby. In one particular industrial park within walking distance of my house, no hunting allowed at all, I have found bolts in the grass, and within a dozen or so yards, a dead deer. If they don't drop it, they take off. Poachers have always poached but now, if stopped by LE, a crossbow in the truck just means they were out hunting even though they may have been out poaching. Before legalization, it may have led somewhere else.
I think they are fun to shoot,,,,,, I also am going to get one next spring,,,,,, I prefer the long bow, but have no animosity against them,,,, I do however think that the only state that has it right is Ky, they should have their own season, or used when a firearm is legal
I do not think anyone between 14 and 64 should be able to use one in archery during the rut, if your healthy, only if you are disabled.....
lets see, they have only been around for the most part since the 11th century, when they started to get in the hands of the common guy, and last time I looked they still shoot one arrow, are heavy, and not to graceful.......
I love the long bow, for many reasons..... I love my compound for a lot of reasons......
Bowhunting is just fine,,,,, I always got a kick out of a guy I know who is "Mr Traditional", always mouthing off at shoots, but the same guy, hunts over bait, and checks his deer, via his phone, from his cameras in the woods, what a joke.........
They might be the savior in that dads, that are to lazy to teach their kids archery, will stick a crossbow in their hands. Not saying all you with crossbow shooting kids are lazy. Just half of you are. ;) A lot of kids given the instruction and a few years of shooting could be pulling legal poundage by 9-10, but it’s alot easier to dial in a crossbow for them, shoot it a few times and go kill something. Now if that “saves” archery, so be it.
"Maybe crippling rate could dramatically decrease!" Their crippling rate might decrease if they actually shoot the crossbow within the bows effective limits and their own personal effective limits. But if they did not do this with a compound its unlikely they would do it with a crossbow. They will end up crippling or missing at longer distances due to their new weapons longer reach. I do not have strong feelings about crossbows either way. Here in Florida they can be used on private land during bow season, but not on State lands. If my shoulder issues would not let me shoot my compounds or stick bows I would likely hunt with a crossbow.....don't really like the idea, but I like to hunt.
I don't think they will save bowhunting. Participation may rise for awhile but eventually hunter numbers will dwindle. Less access to good hunting, less hunter recruitment, and dying off of us old guys will really hit the hunting ranks hard.
"My one big issue with them is the use of the scope. They want to use that during "bow" season, lose the scope.... I don't think anything will save hunting... as most everything, we will eventually ruin, it in time...."
Let's apply that to compounds, too. No more scopes or for that matter, any sights.
If your hunting public land in Wisc. I can assure you,you don't need crossbows to "save" hunting". All this talk about saving hunting leaves a bitter sweet taste, the real saving of hunting will be more accessible hunting land period. All the rest of the talk is feel good smoke and mirrors rhetoric.
With my nightforce 5x20 with turret knobs and my ballastics app I can smoke all the bucks on my hit list from 170 yards. Past that I line up the bottom of my scope for a 200 yard smack down. I love archery season. ;)
Never had a problem with disabled people using them, by I hunt public land and from what I’ve seen every lazy dumbass out there that didn’t want to take the time to learn how to shoot a compound and saw a cool crossbow on a video game or movie has bought one and he’s out there, if that’s what you mean by saving archery season. Why don’t we just let everyone ride 4 -wheelers on public land and rifle hunt in now season. The everyone gets a trophy snowflake attitudes have now overtaken the hunting community as well.
They are getting less and less cumbersome. Check out Ravin Crossbows. Not much heavier than a equipped compound and pretty sleek looking.
The whole point of bowhunting is making killing as easy as possib...wait a second.
yea, Ravin just like shooting your rifle * their ad says that .... smh ...
John, you hit the nail squarely on the head with no. (4)
"yea, Ravin just like shooting your rifle * their ad says that .... smh ..."
Yea, I said that when standing at the Whoreton display at the Harrisburg Outdoor show back in 2009 or 2010. The rep was talking about once it's cocked, you can just steady it on a rest aim thru the scope and squeeze the trigger. I said "Just like a rifle, huh." I was asked to leave if I wasn't interested.
With that said, I saw the Raviin commercial. They don't care about archery or archery seasons. Not. One. Bit. It's about looking like a tacticool guy with some tribal face paint, putting the smack down with your Ravin x-bow that groups 3" at 100 yards. Yeah, that's what we need to be teaching new archers.
Guy in the neighborhood has shot 5 deer this fall with crossbow. Recovered one. I gave him a picture of deer anatomy I got on bowsite. Gun hunter mentality with crossbow is not good
Over the 55+ years I have had the privilege of enjoying hunting, the issue of what a bow or rifle will do comes to the forefront from time to time. I feel a 100 yd. crossbow has to be a serious joke as does shooting a rifle at distances beyond common sense. The more serious threat to hunting in general is decreasing access to public lands. The tradition of hunting clubs in the Adirondacks in NNY has been, for all purposes, been wiped out by the state's purchasing the land and then preventing easy access to it. The old story of 'a slow death by a thousand cuts'.
I think some of this stuff is hilarious guy I know has shot 10 deer this fall recovered 1 with his evilbow set to wound or stun or whatever oh ya plus he's a slob x rifle hunter did I almost fail to mention that LOL oh ya he shoots at running deer at 100 yards to ! And he can't even spell his name so dumb he needs a crutch I guess and he is stinking up my bow only season ! Funny thing is I spent a week in deer camp and there were some guys shooting compounds and a few shooting crossbows that met for the first time. We had civil conversations and all seemed to talk the same language of bow hunting how could that be when all crossbow hunter are ignorant slobs !. Oh maybe some of those compound shooters were also underneath just lazy ignorant soon to be converted to easy peazy crossbow shooters ! No the crossbow won't save deer hunting !
I heard another ignorant guy on the news this am said that be carefull out there as firearm deer season is starting in Michigan and that means a rise in deer and car collisions as it does every year in oct to december guess he must shoot a crossbow too !
Crossbows aren't going to saver archery, and crossbows aren't going to kill archery. The crossbow will do the same thing to compounds, that compounds did to traditional gear. Like traditional gear the compound won't go away but within two generations it will have lost the majority and be a small subdivision of the archery group.
It will happen for the exact same reason compounds took over traditional: return on practice time investment. Pretty much every hunter I know is willing to practice. Many shoot yr round and invest many hours a weekend practicing. Lazy isn't the issue. They simply want more return on practice time. The traditionalist shoots 5hrs a week to have an effective range of 20yds, the compounder practices 5hrs a week to have an effective range of 45yds, and the crossbower practices 5hrs per week to have an effective range of 55yds. History repeats it'self and I honestly think there are many parallels here.
Don't get me wrong. There are slobs out there, but my experience is that there are a lot fewer of them than what we are led to believe. Most hunters I know are hard working individuals and very few of them are slobs. Maybe I'm fortunate, lucky, or ignorant on that aspect though and have the ratio wrong.
How can you come up with the conclusion that "people who buy crossbows must be lousy shots "? That's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a while...Shoot what you want , practice and shoot them well..Just saying
What's funny about this is back in 1971 when I started bow hunting all I heard was how compound bows were going to destroy the deer population. Any bow that had a let off was the easy way. Deer were going to be killed by the truck load yadda, yadda, yadda. Now 40 some odd years later, its those demon crossbows with every excuse as before. The deer population may be better off this time if folks would just stick to reasonable distance. I still shoot my longbows along with my compounds as well as a few crossbows. With practice, everyone does the job it was intended for and after all there is only one degree of dead.
What about animals other than deer, many are already on a limited draw or quota? Will crossbows for all hunters help solve these issues?
It is pretty easy to tell that most who have responded to this thread have very little if any knowledge about crossbows. I used to be the same way until I was more or less forced into it if I ever wanted to bowhunt again.
And let me tell you, packing a crossbow around and being accurate with one past 35-40 yards is a whole different ball game.
When you blow a shoulder out and have to revert to a crossbow, I'll bet you will change your tune about them. Personally, I'd be happy if I could ever shoot my vertical bows again.
Good news is that here in CT, we've got Iron-Clad Proof that allowing the use of crossbows absolutely DECREASES the overall harvest total and prevents deer-car collisions, too!
You've got NUUUUUUUTHIN' to worry about, fellas....
It is strange that these "difficult to use crossbows" are being so highly recommended for hunters with disabilities and youth. Why would we do such a thing to them?
Crossbows will save the revenue that is being lost to decreasing sales of gun tags. Crossbows will save hunters from having to practice at all once they are sighted in.
Crossbows offer immediate gratification for those using them. It's the world we live in....this generation wants everything now, with little to no investment in sweat equity. Once interest wanes as it's getting harder to kill deer because herd size is decreasing, people drop out. What will "save archery" is when states start to really, I mean REALLY manage deer herds better so hunters have more opportunities, better quality hunts and more animals available (this will not happen). Today's hunters will be dinosaurs in the near future.
I mean REALLY manage deer herds better so hunters have more opportunities, better quality hunts and more animals available (this will not happen). I think its funny that you know that all crossbow users are lazy and looking for instant gratification and then post this ! Sounds like you know nothing about either game management or crossbow users LOL
Good humor; lousy point. Let’s leave physical limitations out of it....
It it IS just a little bit ironic to hear complaints coming from guys who are shooting bows with 85% and shooting an arrow faster and flatter than a lot of crossbows can throw a bolt.
Nobody kicks and screams when a compound shooter takes a deer at 40-60 yards, but let somebody do it with a crossbow and it’s suddenly all too easy to count.
Bottom line... if you’re a Compound shooter looking down on X-bows, you’d better shut up and take your lumps when a string-bow shooter has an unfavorable view of your chosen weapon.
No one has to change to a crossbow due to a single shoulder injury. Doesn't bother me if they do, but folks with one good arm can hunt with bows very effectively.
Coincidence that crossbows being allowed during bow season happens the same time that people want to use the same bathroom?
Was that guy a star in broke back mountain?
People who pick up crossbows are gun hunters at heart. They have no real love for archery and are merely opportunists...same goes for the other god awful excuses coming down the pike and into an "archery season" near you.
Nothing wrong with being an opportunist but it is what it is.
MA is correct. Crossbow hunters have no love for bowhunting, they quit bowhunting and are no longer bowhunters. Opportunists they are and it is what it is. Hunter's gave away their bowhunting only season, smart.
If " that guy " would have been in broke back i would have watched it!
Ha ha ha sometimes looks can be receiving!
You are going have more increase of deer hunters with the x-gun than bow hunters which probably see more increase to the recurve/longbow hunters with the drop off of compound users since less time to practice. If I was a kid getting into deer hunting the x-gun would be the given device with the technology of easement that is coming with the x-gun, no contest, seen this with the advancement of the compound so what is the difference. The trad bow will always be the essence of bow hunting.
with the crossgun, its all about killing, no style, no couth, even with a compound you still have to draw it and hold it by hand ..... my views will never change on crossguns ....
Allowing crossbows just gave the gun hunters an extra season.
I agree JTV. My thoughts are the same. DNR's motto, Let's make hunting as easy as we can, so we can make more money, off of permit sales. Anyone with a disability, i don't have a problem with them using a crossbow.
A few months ago I was on one of these Crossbow argument threads. I was extolling the joys of shooting a bow . I didn't say anything about hunting......I purposely avoided using a hunting reference...........just about the enjoyment of using a bow.
My post was meant to illustrate the joy of archery. It was meant to bring attention to the unique experience that you can only achieve by drawing a bow and releasing an arrow....and how a crossbow deprives one of that experience.
A crossbow user called me a hypocrite.......( for using a release) ....after I said " that use of a compound bow does slightly diminish the experience of releasing an arrow as compared to my stick bows."But, by and large , drawing any bow and releasing an arrow is the joy of archery.
Then he makes a few references to deer hunting. He intimates that all us archers are worried about is having crossbows shoot all "our" deer. He used the words "greed " and " Selfish" to describe me / other archers. I never mentioned deer or deer hunting.
You know I could care less about crossbows , but , I do care about archery.
Pretty sad day when an archer takes SH** for extolling the virtues of archery on BOWSITE.
Bill ^^^^ .... you are 100% spot on ....
The state legalized them here not so much because they wanted to sell more tags so much as they want more deer Gone. Few hunters have access to private land, so they wanted to give those few a more efficient weapon.
Not about hunting - all about the body count, and the bowhunters were either unwilling or incapable of hitting the state’s target number.
So in that respect.... if the modern crossbow is the tool that gets enough “opportunistic” deerslayers out there to demonstrate that hunting actually CAN be an effective tool for managing the herds to sustainable levels... hell, at that rate, they may be what saves hunting for EVERYBODY....
Maybe crossbows will save gun hunting too, is that what you are saying? Hell, maybe even trapping.
Killing more deer, more competition for access and more competition for limited tags is the last thing my State needs.