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Explain this to me given - it's mid Nov.
Conceived in April? How is this possible?
Conceived in April? How is this possible?
What the hell? We figure that fawn is 3 months old in Mid-November. That would put conception in April. Anyone ever seen that before?
Yes, about 5 years ago here in PA in November. Giant doe with the tiniest little spotted fawn you ever saw. I think the one I saw may only have been 2 months old. I couldn't shoot the fawn, and shooting the doe was a death sentence for the fawn so I let them walk.
I've seen a spotted fawn in Southern California in late October and our rut is a week or two before the rut in the midwest. If a doe is in estrous, she's going to have that scent. All that has to happen from there is for her to be upwind of a buck that day.
Yeah, there are actually bunches of winter spotted fawns pix on this site, even from northern latitudes... Been a topic a few times...
I would have to say no contraception was used!
Not fair Pat! You edited that while I was posting!
Lots in Georgia, we deer that were transplanted from Wisconsin that rut now and the southern gene January and February.
I saw one one year on Dec. 1 in Danbury
A few years back my buddy shot a doe on Christmas Eve, 2 minutes later two spotted fawns walked out. He decided to shoot them too because it was doubtful they'd make it. This was in Westchester NY
I was always under the impression that any unbred doe would come into estrous every 28 days until bred. Also mom looks to be very young...she may have came into estrous very late and bred.
I believe they will cycle until March or April if unbred. After that the pineal gland reduces melatonin and they won't cycle until next Fall. I suppose she could also have an issue with that gland and it didn't kick in until late, or she was just picky.
Pat-As long as the buck still has antlers and the doe is in heat, you bet it can happen. Not at all unusual here in the South. Many times, have seen bucks still carrying hard antlers during spring turkey season. IF the weather and food sources are suitable, the eight-month old doe fawns, may well cycle and if the bucks are still carrying, they will breed. The same is true for unbred adult does. They may cycle as many as four or even five times if weather and more importantly, food source, is suitable for fawning.
Fawn rut happens in extremely healthy herds.
I guess it’s not that rare then. I’ve never seen it in all my years. Interesting. Thanks.
That thing looks so tasty.
Pat, in a college deer pen, some years ago, the biologist put a button buck in the pen with several unbred does, thinking the rut was over and the button couldn't breed them anyway. He in fact, bred ever one of them. Strange things can happen. There is small percentage of does, who if unbred, will cycle every 28-days, all year. I had one in my backyard herd a few years ago. She could not conceive or "catch" as it is sometimes called and drove the bucks wild.
Pat, back in late 80's I think it was, when the ML season was before the shotgun/rifle season, I shot my 3rd deer ever. After misfiring on the doe, another took her place and I killed it. I couldn't see spots at the time, but when I walked up to it, there were faded spots. I brought it to the check station and it was 37lbs dressed. Boy, it looked bigger when standing all alone. Of course, I was in kill everything mode as a young man. That was on Nov. 14 if I remember right.
Assuming bowiter's info is correct will this year's fawn sometimes breed in Nov or Dec? It's a different question than what Pat is asking about, but sorta related...
My wife saw a spotted fawn cross our yard this year in April in central Ms. That would have put conception in September. Our rut usually occurs in mid December. Strange stuff!
Follow up to that is I guess they just like us. Take it when you can get it!!
"Assuming bowiter's info is correct will this year's fawn sometimes breed in Nov or Dec? It's a different question than what Pat is asking about, but sorta related..."
About 25% of this years female fawns will cycle once, usually in late Dec. or January in the third estrous cycle. It depends on where you live. If the weather is conducive and the food source available, this is about the standard for whitetail. That does not mean they will get bred. Our early fawns-April and May-could very easily breed and have a single fawn. But that is here, no snow, plenty of feed.
Common late breed of doe fawn bred late winter.
Seeing spotted fawns in central and southern MS is not all together uncommon in mid-November.
I think herd buck/doe ratio factor & breeding time is much bigger element than realized.
I do find it unusual in Kansas however where the rut is traditionally the 1st two weeks in Nov. Maybe the doe was on medical exemption or had a headache back last November !!
4 yrs ago had one on the farm nov. 8 Buffalo co. wi.
Could she have mis-carried early, then came back into heat and was bred again at a late date?
I use to have a video of a fawn a lot smaller than the one in your pic. It was on Nov 30 and it was all by its self. When I first noticed it from a ways off, I thought it was a red fox. It was no more than a week or 2 old. Never seen it again after it went into some CRP.
It happens, yearling coming into estrus. Won't survive the winter, so?
illegal bait maybe? (just kidding for all of you baiters)...... We had 3 spotted fawns, this year in my yard, all last week of Sept....Wisconsin
Saw the same thing in Nebraska just last week. It freaked me out as well!
As deer numbers increase and food sources improve, you may see more of it. Don't worry about it. Ma Nature knows what she is doing. (I think a study of supplemental feeding is needed...including baiting. ) :)
We call that "Jail Bait"...
The latest I've seen a spotted fawn personally in Alabama was January. I see them a lot in November. Heck the leaves are just now starting to fall good and the bucks are breaking out of their bachelor groups finally. I've barely even seen a scrape or two where I hunt. Some parts of Alabama are in full blown rut and other parts haven't even begun. Crazy here with all the restocking efforts that happened years ago. Nothing normal about Alabama deer hunting.
Arrowhead is right, TBM said the same thing years ago!
I'm sorry for typing his name and will now go stand in the corner for a hour.
I saw mule deer fawns 3rd week in Sept that were tiny. Spots and everything. They were so little, they were the size of coyotes. They left little pig prints. They will be the first to feed predators this winter. I tried getting pics but they bolted before I got my camera out.
I saw one last night with a doe!!! It happens!!!
tobinsghost: No worries, I almost slung that Name at ya'll just to settle any and all arguments that might come up in the future. The deer are screwed up here and that is why we have a different scoring system for them and the Turkeys have 400 power vision, a memory better than an Elephant, not to mention their senses are compared to that of a blood hound. Don't even get me started on the ever increasing hog population. TBM, the only one I know that could get seven hundred hits on the Bowsite and not accomplish anything.
Peak of the rut in middle to south AL is about Jan. 5-10. You do the math.
I had 2 spotted fawns late October on camera
I saw one in eastern KS a few years ago that looked about a month old in December. My thoughts were the same as yours.....what the hell!
Bowriter, The peak of the rut in and around Eufaula Al. is in October. The Peak in the Some parts of the Mid-section and North Alabama is in Nov. (Bankhead - Winston County ) and (Oakmulgee Bibb & Hale County) Other parts of the Mid-section are in Dec. (Tuscaloosa County parts of Bibb and Jefferson). Back to the North and South for January peaks. (Parts of Winston and Randolph, Green and Montgomery) Don't forget Sumter's early Feb. rut. If I start in Eufaula close to the Georgia line in Oct. move to Bankhead Winston county in Nov. Slide on down to Tuscaloosa in December and to South Al. or North Al for January. around Hamilton and slide back down to Sumter for Feb. then I could conceivably hunt the rut or at least close to it nearly the whole season.
Rut peaks around Tuskegee in early January, has for as long as I can remember. Much the same time as South Texas. Seems to be about a week to ten-days difference between Sumpter and Auburn. Probably due to education at AU. :) I always hunt the area-six-miles outside Tuskegee-between Christmas and New Year. Catch the start of the chase phase. If it is hot, I fish instead.
Probably has to do with an unnatural diet of bait.
We had three doe fawns on trail cam this year which carried spots well into October (Indiana). I saw all three over the past two weeks from stand...and not one of them would weigh more than 40lbs. Surprised to see one fawn born so late....let alone three on the same farm?
Personally, I'd have shot the fawn for the hide to make a cool looking back quiver...
I live where I see Deer on a regular basis in my yard. All the fawns we saw this year were later compared to past years. We had one next to the deck a week ago that had no spots but I swear was not over 30#s. They love birdseed & raid our many feeders when they show up.
If the fawn pictured by Pat is ~ 3 months old and its currently November; that means it was born during August. With about a 6 month gestation period, that puts CONCEPTION of the doe during February.
So, the does wasn't bred during the normal rut in November and continued to cycle into estrous until conception was successful during February. That means she drove bucks nuts during December and January as well as February. That sounds odd, but not terribly far fetched.
In a more northern area, the chance of winter survival would be very low at best....
I hunt northeastern Illinois public land and just 2 weeks ago was driving to my stand area when a tiny fawn with spots ran across the road in front of me. I thought..???? Never seen that this late before.
My mom shot a spotted fawn about 15 Nov just west of Int'l Falls, MN. I could pick it up off the ground with one hand and tie it to a tree. All the meat fit in a bread bag.
Normal dressed weight for our fawns is about 75 lbs.
Where I hunt here in CA the landowner is seeing more early and late fawns over the past ~5 years than he did in the prior 25. The rut typically peaks in mid Nov., but he's seen fawns born from what appears to be late Sept. breeding and we saw fawns with a few remaining spots just a couple of weeks ago.
My friend found a newly shed antler on top of new snow on Dec 5 or 7 (don't remember which) a few years ago and another early drop the year after. The neighbor reported the same. Things are changing, who's to know why?