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Will Wyoming price increase improve draw
This year, prices will jump in Wyoming. I haven’t seen in preference points go up or not?
In your opinion, will this decrease applicants and improve draw odds?
I would think it would have to slow creep. Rise in price will slow demand but it may be so insignificant that it is hard to measure. It could also have a much larger effect.
I was talking about this with Mike a few days ago. My guess is that it won't have much affect at all.
Personally, I'm considering dropping out of the moose race in protest. With moose numbers going down as they are, I don't agree with such a substantial increase in tag price, especially when (1) we have to front the cost of the tag, (2) it takes them months to hold the draw and refund the money, and (3) and the preference point costs so damn much for it's absolute lack of worth for anyone with less than 10 points, but I seriously doubt it'll affect the deer, elk, or PH draws as the cost increases are the difference between a few cases of beer and most of the people putting in for the OIL type hunts are going to balk at the cost increase when the tag price is compared to what they'll be paying their guides.
PP will go up, too. Probably $75 for elk.
Personally, I’m only worried about elk. Been putting in for special and drawing but last year I think was the first year it wasn’t 100% with zero points. Anyone know off hand if pref points will increase? If they do, I think there will be fewer people that buy points. Wyoming has definitely been seeing lots of publicity. But general tags aren’t as easy to get as they use to be...
If the price of crack went up would a crack head quit? I'm hopeless ;)
Should be real easy to draw my cow moose tag now. :-)
My guess is that draw odds for the special tags will go up, draw odds for the regular tags will go down, and draw odds for cow/calf tags will go way down.
Here's the new price list...
The price increase for elk isnt all that much - less than $200 for general tag [w/ archery license]
The real question is... What's your breaking point?
No. Unfortunately. My question is what price increase would? $2000? $3000 licenses? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. Plenty of people with money to hunt elk and it seems to me that trend is accelerating over the past 10 years. No data to back that up, except land-owner tag prices continuing to increase and the fact that you have to wait 2 years for a good guided hunt ($30k sheep hunts, $10k Elk or Mule deer-get in line and wait your turn!). Lot's of folks on the web will say they are quitting, but the tag application numbers don't seem to back that up from my very cursory review of states that have increased the price (maybe one of the "numbers" guys can affirm or dispute that). Now, I think in MT and some other states app numbers might have come down, but I don't think it's the app price, but the amount the state ends up keeping while weighing the perceived value of that state's elk herd.
I doubt those small increases will have any real world effect on elk hunters! Most of us are like Otcwill's comment!
In my opinion it will make no noticeable difference in the elk draw odds. Demand is so high that I don't think we'll notice if a few drop out.
I guess it's just lucky that States don't run these things completely like a business that understands supply and demand. Price for some units/tags would be so high that they would only get approximately 1 application per tag issued and only the very wealthy could afford them.
Moose and Sheep points (mandatory purchase) went up to $150, the rest stayed the same. They did raise the ceiling should the Commission choose to increase those point fees. If I remember correctly, total 2017 NR applications were up 20% over 2016 and if you tried to buy a leftover you probably noticed few available and most were sold with applications to spare.
I don't see odds geeting better no matter where you apply.
Tomorrows Comission meeting will have a presentation on alternative Elk license allocations. After the live feed it will be available on youtube.
Channel link; https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZWVayna6kSX4Q7eQyMvglA/videos
One thing is for sure....the state won't sell one less tag than they want to sell. They've done the research.
Alternative elk license allocations? What exactly does that mean?
"Alternative elk license allocations?"
Those are 'Rainbow Elk'
Washington State's sheep/moose/goat apps are around $210 non-refundable, I dropped out a few years ago after applying for a while because I just couldn't support that. I think it's highway robbery when most people will go their entire lives without drawing. I forgot about the moose PP increase - that's the main reason I'm dropping out. The PP is nothing of value. If you have 5 PPs for moose right now, your odds of getting into the PP draw for moose within the next 20 years is nil so you're paying $150 bucks per year to apply for dismal random draw odds and borrowing Wyoming 2 grand for 3 months. It's a crock.
The elk increase, on the other hand, still has value. Right now, an elk tag in WY costs about the same as it does in CO and CO's bull age strata is horrible. Personally, I'd pay $1200 for an elk tag in Wyoming. But I wouldn't pay $1800. Somewhere in there, I'd drop out.
And another thing, I don't know if they want us to buy these wolf tags or not while we're hunting ungulates, but there's no way I'm paying $185 for a tag to make an unlikely incidental kill. If Wyoming wants hunters to kill wolves instead of govt trappers, they need to take a lesson from MT and ID and charge $30-$50 for a wolf tag.
I'll add my Son drew a tag last year with 11 points, he still added the Special to insure he drew, if it had been a couple hundred dollars more he still wouldn't have blinked an eye! It's only money, you can't take it with you! (grin) (Those are my Son's words) Grin!
Drew a WY Shiras moose years ago when the price doubled (1992?). Always thought it took a few out of the drawing. Good luck to everybody.
You sure can’t take it with you but I surely don’t want to spend, spend, spend. Investing money now, means more later. There is surely a breaking point for many people. I love my spot in Wyoming and hope to continue hunting it every year. But Idaho or Montana are going to start looking like attractive options.
Well, looks like you have an answer to your original thought! You mention a breaking point for yourself! (grin) It's a bummer that many things in life such as cars, homes & life itself definitely costs more these days with little end in sight! Hunting is right up there too, it's definitely more expensive than it was even 10 years ago. -- There's no doubt it will weed some out not only in WY but most western states. Hang in there bud & good luck!
45:00 into the meeting; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9mDE53bJP8
1:31 gets interesting
The price increase won't impact my attempts to draw. I don't expect the chances to be any better than they've been the past few years. Most states, including WY wait too long to raise prices so when they do they seem like quite a jump (like 20% next year for NR Antelope). The archery permit doubling seems a little harsh but still, the cost for this NR is still in the travel and time.
Re: non-resident elk Being a non-resident I have no input on Wyoming tag prices but preference point prices should be less for applicants who buy a second choice tag and come to Wyoming to hunt every year in spite of not drawing their first choice. Those who stay at home only buying points should pay a premium for that option. Those of us who buy a second choice tag (usually a cow) provide money for the wildlife department and the state economy in general. Those who only buy a preference point provide neither.
I buy a 1st choice tag every year, mine should be free.
When MT raised their prices a few years ago it had an effect, first year or two anyway they didn't sell all their elk tags on the first go round.... for the first time in years they had surplus tags. Essentially turned OTC. So the WY increase may have some immediate effect/impact.
Now the shock has worn off in MT it's the "new normal". Things are going back to how it was years earlier. Even if there is any effect in WY it will likely be short lived.
EDIT: Apparently MT had leftover tags this year as well.
I was thinking something along the lines of TD's post above. I've stated this on other threads, but I dropped out of moose and will probably not buy points for elk. Odds are I will apply with a shot at a random tag some years. There has been a ton of Bowsite publicity for WY, so some or all of us can share the blame.
I sure hope so, I've been playing the game since the freaking '90s...
FYI if your points are not updated yet, they will be around 11/20 or so. I anticipate the regular draw odds will go down...and I'll not draw yet again. Been a point behind where I want a tag for 5 years. Its just stupid at this point.
$580 increase in non-resident moose tag???? I'm at 15 pp and I sure hope I draw soon. This state is draining me of my cash. Sure wish Wisconsin would increase the non-resident fees across the board.
Unfortunately it won't for me. I want to hunt elk every year so I play the game and pay the price.
I will make cut backs as needed.
Yep will increase your odds for elk. First year in about 12 years I didn't buy elk point. After I burn my deer points next year, I may not start those again either as I have good hunting opportunities to hunt in my home state as well. That damn imaginary line is just not worth crossing any more!
The odds will definitely improve, but it is still very likely Wyoming will sell the NR quota. It It is important to recognize that posters on this site are not your "average" hunter, overall. We are obviously more passionate than many who would never even participate in this type of discussion. It will definitely effect some demographics greater. How many NR can but 2 or 3 of there teenagers in to accompany dad on an out of state hunt at the increased prices? It has always been expensive, but there re tipping points for everyone. In general terms, the less affluent, as well as the younger crowd (which are also, typically, less affluent, or established in their careers) will have a harder time coming up with the additional coin. Most of us, either are a bit older or possibly a bit better off, and probably won't be effected as much. But undoubtedly this will cause some to drop out.
Whether it is enough of an increase to see the same effects as Idaho and MT when they instituted large cost increases (and both had left over tags for several years) remains to be seen, but I do suspect demand will stay high enough in WY to still sell all the available quota. Bill
Most people who hunt elk out of state don't have 3 teenage hunting children. The price increase for elk is two tanks of gas for the average truck or five 30 packs of Coors Lite. That's like 1 week's worth of beer.
The only thing I would be interested in are antelope and grey wolf. USFW gets pissed if you kill a mexican grey wolf here and I can spend a lot less to hunt here in NM for elk. Tag soup taste a lot better when it is under $100. :-)
Life goes on so no biggy for me---------->
With so many guys using Application Services now a days, it only cost more if ya draw sooooo
Good luck, Robb
"...five 30 packs of Coors Lite. That's like 1 week's worth of beer. "
You need to keep in mind that it's not only the price increase if you draw but also the increase in price to apply for pref pts each year. It's getting mighty expensive for the "average Joe Hunter" to afford applying in 1 to multiple states....especially as noted above if his family is also applying for tags. Add up how much you are paying in multiple states and multiply that by 10-15 years of applying and that is a heck of a lot more than just a tank of gas and a case of beer!
I'm also sure this likely won't be the last price increase. Who knows how much pref pts and tags will cost 10 to 15 years from now! There are a heck of a lot of cheap trips I can do for the cost of tags and application fees! I'm slowly but surely getting out of the application fiasco! If you have money it's no problem but it's a real bummer for those on a tight budget! The game and fish/wildlife departments need to ask themselves where the heck our future is heading?
Agree Jim. If the real annual cost to apply is not sinking in with NR's, they should do the math and add it up. The total non-refundable fees to apply for all the various WY species is now up to 525.00 per year, per person. For those NR's applying multiple members of their family, that could be a rather large chunk of change. And that's the cost every year, year-after-year, even if you don't draw a license of any kind. WY is certainly now the most expensive state in the west to apply in, by a large margin.
More painful yet, when you really think it through, is that a lot of that money is not going into wildlife programs. Much of it ends up with the Credit Card banks. A big chunk of those fees pay the massive Merchant Account bill incurred due to WY requiring the full license fees up front.
If you're gonna play, you gotta pay. But more and more, my thoughts are turning to what I could do with all those app fees in the 15 different states we apply in. When you add it up, it would easily buy a real nice hunt somewhere every year.
Stick, That is exactly what I was thinking... I won't apply in Wy again, It's not worth it. I have great hunting here in AZ, and I will just save my pennies and go to Canada every 3-4 years for a moose or elk hunt if I can't get drawn here.
$120 for Antelope/Deer/Elk points is pretty reasonable. It costs me $56 for those points as a resident here in OR and the hunting sucks compared to WY. I would think anybody buying Sheep and Moose points has done the math to see how long it'll take to get to the top of the pile. That doesn't seem to be the case when looking at the number of people with single digit points.