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Poacher shoots and kills Woman walking
So this article says Hunter shoots and kills woman walking her two dogs. It then goes on to say he shot her 40 minutes after sunset on land he didn't have permission to hunt. That's not a hunting its a poacher.
Hmm 200-yards...high powered pistol. I have some questions about this.
Dark enough to mistake a human for a deer and light enough to make a first-shot hit with a handgun.
Hopefully justice will prevail swiftly. About the pistol, could this be done with a TC Contender with a scope?
We’ll solve it on this thread before long I bet.
I thought this was 'Bowsite"?
This shooting occurred about 15 minutes from my house....and someone in South Dakota has already convicted him....granted, the local news has stated that charges MAY be pending....but whatever happened to due process? Don't get me wrong, the woman that was killed is a saint, based on all the comments that are being posted on various media.....but I have seen way too many errors in the Post Journal (local paper) over the years to take it as an absolute truth.
The T.C.contenders/Encores can be set-up in just about any rifle cartridge.This yahoo was shooting 40 minutes after sunset and trespassing.
Lots of handguns are capable of 200 yard plus shots. I have an older Remington XP in .308 that will shoot 1" groups at 200 yards all day. Also a 7-30 Waters in T/C Contender that is a 150-200 yard deer gun. Sorry but folks who do stuff like this should be jailed for life. Idiot!! Shawn
Based on the article the guy at a minimum should face trespassing and manslaughter charges along with hunting after sunset if that is illegal in NY.
FWIW the extended eye relief scope on my hunting pistol is much dimmer than any of my rifle scopes. I'm lucky to see much through it at 100 yards around sunset, much less at 200 yards long after sunset. It'll be interesting to see what facts come out; right now we're dealing with early news reports, and we know how unreliable those are.
Btm's experiences mirror mine. I've killed deer and coyotes, even a couple turkeys with Contenders and Encores, but not at dark, or close to dark, unless the animal is very close. They are not nearly as bright as rifle scopes, at least the ones I own.
I'm sorry but while an "accident" no person should ever be killed by a hunter (or poacher) thinking they are a deer.
He should get whatever the law prescribes and he deserves it. This was avoidable and 100% unnecessary.
It's hunter safety 101.
Not bashing her in any way but my family members understand the dangers of being outdoors during hunting season. Don`t put YOUR LIFE in another's hands. This MORON that shot her deserves far more than manslaughter, I read she was on her property with her 2 dogs. He shot her with a single shot pistol.
....reportedly, no scope....but let's wait for the results of the investigation....which should be forthcoming soon. Additionally, an Ohio hunter just shot a brown pickup truck in North Harmony, NY....claiming that he thought it was a deer. The gun was a 7 MM and the one bullet disabled the truck.....Be careful out there, bowhunters....the orange army is in rare form this year.
Jake: If he was shooting with irons, then that really blows me away. Like you said, however, let's wait for the results of the investigation.
Jeez Jake, this guy from South Dakota didn't convict him. I stated what the article said happened and basically said if that is what happened then he is a poacher not a hunter. On another note I remember a 90 year old man around Browns Valley, Minnesota shooting a horse out from underneath a young girl with a shotgun in the late 90's.
I give him a shred of credit for trying to help her and not running off like a coward, but if all this is true, he was poaching and made a horrible decision. People don't look anything like deer. Not even close. Know your target.
Griz, I have an advantage, so to speak, in that I am a "local", and therefore have seen the Post Journal need to publish numerous retractions and corrections over the years. I think the reason that this touched a nerve for me is a recent review that I watched of Richard Jewell. If you look him up on Wikipedia, you'll get the drift. I guess the point that I wanted to share was that nothing is official yet.....and we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty....thus my suggestion for allowing due process to continue. BTW, I also sent you a PM.
Griz34 - I remember that incident, I used to deer hunt near there. That was another sad story.
Honestly, I can't believe how this stuff can happen. When I take a rifle shot I'm looking through my scope to make sure I'm on the chest, there are no branches in the way that will deflect the shot, and I'm already 110% sure it's a legal animal I'm shooting at. I've passed on a lot of animals just because I didn't know where the bullet would end up. Not trying to be high and mighty at all, but man you can't bring that bullet back once you pull the trigger.
A tragic accident that never should have happened, RIP.
Try as I might, I can’t call this one an accident.
It’s what my dad used to call 1st Degree Felony Stupid,
This guy shot her...she screamed and that`s when he knew he had shot a human. He ran to her and I believe he called 911. He was there when the EMS and cops arrived and admitted he had done it. How does this match up with Richard Jewel....apples to ROCKS.
About the only thing I would believe from the article is that the woman was shot and the names of the two people involved. All the other details like shot distance, weapon, time of incident, tresspassing....I would take with a grain of salt until an official report is released. Agree with Jake 100%. Not just this news source, but pretty much all news media will print rumors and hearsay before they have the facts.
Guy was shot here in Ohio several years ago during orange army season.he was crossing a small stream before daylight and was shot by an idiot in a tree stand.guy thought it was a deer.shooting in the dark at sound.I'm not out when it turns orange in Ohio.
I doubt he mistook the woman for a deer. At that distance and lighting my guess is he thought the dogs were deer and never saw the woman. No excuse. What a tragedy. Needs to be punished as a crime.
Franklin, Once the authorities considered Richard Jewell as a suspect, the press crucified him. There were rumors and superfluous news releases based on heresay. It ruined the man's life. Later, the actual bomber was caught, but the damage was done....and it couldn't be undone. There are reports that the guy was trespassing, but the landowner may have casually said that it was OK to hunt, then recanted that comment once there was a fatality on their property, in an attempt to avoid any forthcoming liability. It snowed for a few days around here. Snow tends to make sunset seem later than it really is. I have forgotten to take a watch or a cellphone with me on infrequent occasions, and been rather embarrassed to get back to the truck and discover that it was quite a bit later than I had estimated. I am willing to bet that this phenomenon has occurred to others as well. I also know that the press is quick to make news out of anything that they can their hands....especially in the case of such a tragedy, because this woman was a peach of a person. If/when charges are filed, which is reported to be forthcoming, I am sure that more information will be made available to the public. On one of the local chat forums, it was reported that the shooter did NOT have a scope on his pistol. IF that is true, for the life of me, I can't understand why someone would be taking a 200 yard shot near dusk, with open sights, with a pistol.....but like I said, I am trying to defer judgement until the facts are released by the authorities.
You have to ID your target before you shoot. Every HE course teaches that.
I respectfully disagree, this person needs to be in serious trouble whether they trespassed or shot after legal time closed. A human life is lost because this person did not make sure, period.
Fact... a Lady was shot accidentally. It should never happen......
Very tragic. Can't imagine the husbands grief.
Here in SC where legal shooting time is ONE HOUR BEFORE SUNRISE until ONE HOUR AFTER SUNSET (which is INSANE) where it is essentially hard dark, I always use a white light walking to and from the stand. There's no separate archery season in most of the state. A young man was wounded by a rifle here a few years back while walking. Surprised it doesn't happen more here.
Very tragic indeed. I really feel for her husband, family and friends.
I agree with arrowone. Probably saw the dogs, thought they were deer. Took a pot - shot at them and heard the screams. People make terrible decisions sometimes. I have read too many stories over the years of guys shooting their kids during spring turkey season.....I think people sometimes see what they want to see. Have you ever been sitting there waiting for the sun to come up and you are sure you see a raccoon or other animal, then the sun comes up and it is a log or stick or something. The point is, when these people are shooting, I think they really believe what they are shooting at is what they think it is.
The comments about iron sights are funny as well as the scope comments. I used to shoot a lot of metal rams at 200 meters with open sights. Today's handgun scopes have come a long way. I shoot 4-12 Burris's on my long range guns and they gather light pretty good. No excuse what soever for what happened. The guy should hang for it!! Shawn
You can shoot groups at 200 meters with open sights on a handgun you sir are my hero !
While bow hunting this fall in Kentucky deer season I was walking out at dusk. I saw what I thought was a man standing on a trail about 65 yards down a path. I stopped and shone my light just in time to see a large buck standing on his hind legs licking a branch. At first I was sure it was my buddy standing there waiting for me !
Regardless of the outcome this is sad.
Its a rape gone wrong. His prey had 2 legs.
Crazy....the replies to this story.
Families knew each other. Five year max sentence if convicted of manslaughter
How far did the shooter think the "deer" was if a dog was thought to be a deer? Depending on breed of dog that was actually at 200 yards, the shooter judging on size of animal in scope/sights must have been thinking was 400 yard shot for "deer" to be so small.
The article didn’t. It say how far he thought it was
Well now, ANOTHER NY gun deer "hunter" (this one from Ohio) shoots and kills a Pickup truck after mistaking it for a deer .... what is up with these dolts ?? ...see link
I know of one hunter that shot HIS OWN brown jeep, mistaking it for a deer when he had wandered in a circle.
I know a guide that placed a client on a power line while he went to look into a drainage for elk. The client got tired of sitting and wandered around to. He shot one of the two horses tied to a hydro tower. They were screened by brush as he got close to the power line. The guide was mad and happy. The client paid about three times what the hay burner was worth. And tipped him well!
Well, I guess when I buy a new truck I should get it in blaze orange! ;-)
Any hunting excursion should not end up with a person, dog, or vehicle shot! Let's really think about this gent's. I cannot imagine the husband's grief... he waits for his wife to come home and have dinner together and his whole world is turned around do to unlawful hunting practice... no excuse!
IIRC OL magazine did a big wright up on firearm hunters shooting things they ABSOLUTELY should NOT have, no excuses WHAT SO EVER. PERIOD. The article listed lots of reasons/causes why these, I will refer to them as "miss-identifications" occur. The most tragic incident told was when a group of family and friends were deer hunting together and spotted a huge buck, the son of one of the party members moved to act as a driver and at again IIRC the party did catch a glimpse of the monster buck. Tragically the father ended up some how mistaking his son for the buck and shot and mortally wounded him. Immediately fallowing the tragedy as they all gathered around the fatally wounded son, the father swore over and over he thought he saw the monster buck, but the others clearly saw it was his son. The father remained with his now dying son as the rest went for help. Per the testimony of the others as soon as they were out of sight of the father, he laid down beside his deceased son and ended his own life with his rifle. The OL article said per it's research it is a very real and medically established mental phenomenon that varies in degree of severity form causing one to act irresponsible to the point of gross negligence, to actually suffering a type of hallucination and that in instances of great stress or while experiencing a desire that is so great the person allows it to overwhelm one's normal thought processes causing you to actually see what your mind so badly desires. This was not in any way an attempt to make an excuse for when people suffer these moments of mentally induced type of hallucinations/mirages so to speak, quite to the contrary it stressed we as hunters can NEVER allow ourselves to become so obsessed with taking an animal that it allows us to override all other considerations and allows us to make utterly horrible choices that can ruin lives for ever. I feel that is what often happens, not in all instances, but often and is the cause, not and excuse for when people shoot another person or animal they normally never would if not hunting. I'm not sure of all the reasons, but I'd bet my house often the cause is rooted in suffering from a desire that the hunter allows to become overwhelming in stead of remaining in control of their emotions. The killing of animals so large as to be considered by the hunter at hand as "once in my life time" for some hunters becomes so powerful that they allow it to overpower all other considerations and totally dominate their thought processes. I'm sure financial considerations also enter into and affect some hunters thought processes. Combine this with often a perceived shot opportunity happens so quickly you have very little time to think about weather or not to shoot or don't shoot and you allow yourself to make poor decisions possibly the worst of your life.
To relate the most powerful of my personal experiences with this I will tell you what happened while my friends and I were in AZ taking the AZ hunter education course. The instructors showed us a multitude of short films that they told us were designed to do 2 things#1-determine if it was an ethical shooting situation and #2 to help us gauge the size of both mule deer and elk as weather they met the minimum antler requierments and were legal to shoot. After about 10 or 12 film shorts in which the bulls and bucks were moving at what I would call a fair walking speed and went from spikes and forks to huge B&C caliber animls and had most of us good and fired up, the instructors then handed out a test that asked ECACTLY how many orange clad hunters did each of us spot in the background behind the animals in a direct line of fire if we shot. NOBODY and I do mean NOBODY got the number correct to the point without doubt some of us completely failed to see at all whatsoever the orange clad hunter and sometimes up to FOUR hunters. They showed us the films over and sure enough we all spotted the hunters all of which had on hats and vests. Now in out defense the hunter or hunters only appeared briefly for a few seconds as we were all focusing on the moving animals and were in the extreme ends of the screen away from the moving animal, but once were actively looking for them we spotted them all instantly and they all stuck out like JJ/Sr at a KKK rally. Taught us all a VERY VERY hard hitting lesson on just haw fast things can go wrong. Lastly I could be wrong but personally I also suspect to a large extent some gun hunters have come to rely far to heavily on blaze orange and have developed a type of mental crutch if they don't see blaze orange it's OK to shoot as they wont hit a person. Now as far as shooting stationary objects like vehicles, that's just plane utter stupidity and slovenly poor firearm practices, and I personally doubt such persons deserve to be hunting in the first place.
Something I forgot to add I feel worth mentioning, is while I personally watched the films I was one of the VERY few students that noticed most (but not all) the hunters in the films and I will admit the first of the orange clad hunters I spotted by the 2nd or 3rd film were in the mule deer videos regardless of size almost immediately and it tipped me off to noticing hunters in the elk films also, it dawned on me later why. I at that time and mostly still do, do not have anywhere as great a desire to hunt mule deer as I do elk and whitetail, so it makes sense I would notice the orange clad hunters in the mule deer videos better than the almost all the other guys in the room because they all were die hard mule deer as well as elk hunters. It basically reinforced what I read in the OL article. I don't doubt had it been videos of elk and whitetails I would have faired no better in the test the instructors surprised us with later on, of that I am sure. The longer I thought about it the more it really educated and eventually scared me because I realized how easily a hunting related tragedy can happen.
Interesting stuff Darton...
Around here it's common for ranchers and others who live in the country to wear some Blaze Orange during season. MN deer season used to have deaths about 10 or so per year when we wore red. Now it's 1 or 2.
Research has shown that people see what they expect to see in many cases. Shooters have sworn there was a deer when unmarked snow proved no deer were anywhere in the shooters view.
During gun season, wear that orange even if bow hunting.
Interesting read, Darton.....
Yep. That’s how it happens that most Moose that are accidentally killed by Elk hunters are killed by experienced Elk hunters who have positively ID’d a legal (4-point) bull Elk.
One more reason to hold out for a 20-yard shot.
Darton thanks for the write up makes sense when you break it down like that...
What a horrible tragedy
Anyone ever mistake a stump for a deer in low light? Or the elusive giant buck that daylight reveals is nothing more than a swaying tree branch? I know it happens to me a few times a season especially when I am due for a new contact rx. Just knowing the sheer idiocy of our fellow humans it's not especially difficult to imagine how accidental shootings happen, our brain has a very complex image processing computer, and an equally sophisticated judgement/impulse control system. That said you have to take your safety into your own hands at all times. Bright clothes and flashlights for me and especially my family, and because there are so many asshats out there poaching that doesn't just apply to hunting seasons.
Yinzer, I have mistaken trunks and moving tree branches for animals. But I have never shot one. I hope I am not sounding too harsh here, but there are no acceptable excuses for these types of incidents. If the facts are true that he shot in fading light conditions, then all of us should know our senses are dulled and can play tricks.
I can understand seeing something in the woods that you THINK is a deer (or maybe "hope" is more like it), as yinzer said. But if you're any kind of hunter, and especially a bow hunter, you DO NOT shoot until you know your shot angle, the position of the animal, backdrop, etc.
I find it incredulous that someone could do this, unless there's more to this sad story.