3Rivers Archery Supply
Interesting discussion at Applebee’s
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Pat Lefemine 03-Dec-17
osage 03-Dec-17
Hawkeye 03-Dec-17
Kevin @ Wisconsin 03-Dec-17
Woods Walker 03-Dec-17
JTV 03-Dec-17
Bake 03-Dec-17
t-roy 03-Dec-17
elk yinzer 03-Dec-17
EmbryOklahoma 03-Dec-17
Woods Walker 03-Dec-17
Brotsky 03-Dec-17
Woods Walker 03-Dec-17
Bowfreak 03-Dec-17
DL 03-Dec-17
Jaquomo 03-Dec-17
Lady Bowhunter 03-Dec-17
wild1 03-Dec-17
drycreek 03-Dec-17
cnelk 03-Dec-17
Thornton 03-Dec-17
ryanrc 03-Dec-17
TD 03-Dec-17
hunt'n addict 03-Dec-17
Brotsky 03-Dec-17
DL 04-Dec-17
Glunt@work 04-Dec-17
ohiohunter 04-Dec-17
Nick Muche 04-Dec-17
dg72a 04-Dec-17
Charlie Rehor 04-Dec-17
The last savage 04-Dec-17
Nick Muche 04-Dec-17
Grubby 04-Dec-17
Woods Walker 04-Dec-17
Buskill 04-Dec-17
keepemsharp 04-Dec-17
WV Mountaineer 04-Dec-17
Zebrakiller 04-Dec-17
stick n string 04-Dec-17
Deertick 04-Dec-17
Killbuck 04-Dec-17
BTM 04-Dec-17
12yards 04-Dec-17
Owl 04-Dec-17
Jack Harris 04-Dec-17
Kodiak 04-Dec-17
Bou'bound 04-Dec-17
Brotsky 04-Dec-17
Griz 04-Dec-17
Trial153 04-Dec-17
Kodiak 04-Dec-17
BTM 04-Dec-17
OFFHNTN 04-Dec-17
Timbrhuntr 04-Dec-17
loesshillsarcher 04-Dec-17
JayZ 04-Dec-17
Mad Trapper 04-Dec-17
Outdoorsman 04-Dec-17
Genesis 04-Dec-17
Junior 04-Dec-17
1boonr 04-Dec-17
XbowfromNY 04-Dec-17
DL 04-Dec-17
APauls 04-Dec-17
tobinsghost 04-Dec-17
Stekewood 04-Dec-17
kscowboy 04-Dec-17
GF 04-Dec-17
Scrappy 04-Dec-17
stick n string 04-Dec-17
EmbryOklahoma 04-Dec-17
BigOzzie 04-Dec-17
BOWNBIRDHNTR 04-Dec-17
The Kid 04-Dec-17
M.Pauls 04-Dec-17
MathewsMan 04-Dec-17
rodb 04-Dec-17
Franzen 04-Dec-17
cnelk 04-Dec-17
Grasshopper 04-Dec-17
kellyharris 04-Dec-17
Griz34 04-Dec-17
Sean D. 04-Dec-17
Russell 04-Dec-17
t-roy 04-Dec-17
Bob H in NH 04-Dec-17
The last savage 04-Dec-17
ohiohunter 04-Dec-17
TREESTANDWOLF 04-Dec-17
Inshart 04-Dec-17
YZF-88 04-Dec-17
SBH 04-Dec-17
The last savage 04-Dec-17
Pat Lefemine 04-Dec-17
Jethro 05-Dec-17
Will tell 05-Dec-17
SaddleReaper 05-Dec-17
Pat Lefemine 05-Dec-17
XbowfromNY 05-Dec-17
Kodiak 05-Dec-17
Ironbow 05-Dec-17
RutnStrut 05-Dec-17
GF 05-Dec-17
jdrdeerslayer 05-Dec-17
PA-R 05-Dec-17
t-roy 05-Dec-17
LUNG$HOT 05-Dec-17
lawdy 05-Dec-17
JayG@work 05-Dec-17
From: Pat Lefemine
03-Dec-17
Last day of northern zone season in northern NY, shot a doe and been outside in the cold all week - loving every minute of it.

Since I don’t need to get up early I drove to Rome NY to get in some shopping and stopped for dinner at Applebee’s.

There was one seat at the bar between two couples. The husbands were rifle hunters and comparing notes. I’m totally fine with rifle hunters but I find as I get older I’ve no interest in engaging in a conversation. So I listened as they shouted to each other on either side of me.

I’m heads down on my phone when one of the guys noticed my DeerBuilder jacket. Asks me if I hunted and I said yes. Then tells me how he killed the buck he was after for five years. Showed me a pic of a 60” 2.5 year old. I congratulated him. No sense in schooling him. He asked me if I ever killed one that big. I lied and said no. Just didn’t see any point in pulling up pics of my trophy bucks.

I feel like a snob sometimes, but there is no comparison between you guys and the average Joe gun hunter.

When you really think about it, the average Bowhunter on Bowsite is so far advanced than the average hunter it’s not even fair.

Best part was the two guys then felt compelled to give me ‘tips’. I think they felt sorry for me. Priceless!! They were good guys, locals, and I think I handled it with grace and class. But it was tough staying incognito when they told me that points = half a bucks age. They told me an 8 was four years old and a 10 was five. Holy crap it was hard to contain myself!

From: osage
03-Dec-17
Aren't you supposed to pull up their lip and look at the teeth to determine age?

From: Hawkeye
03-Dec-17
Ha ha ha ha!! That is a great story:) I remember hearing this advice once and never forgot it......" If you're the smartest guy in the room....you're in the wrong room." ;) Happy Holidays.

03-Dec-17
The real question is what the heck are you doing eating at an Applebee's??

From: Woods Walker
03-Dec-17
More like pull DOWN their lip as deer, like many ruminants, only have front teeth on the bottom jaw. But to age one you really need to look at the back molars anyway.

From: JTV
03-Dec-17

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo
this happens waaay to often for me ...

From: Bake
03-Dec-17
Oh my. Been there. I have a couple shoulder mounts and some euro mounts in my office. Many clients try to engage in conversation about them, and I try to avoid it most of the time. Same kinds of things you’re talking about.

From: t-roy
03-Dec-17
How does that system work out west, where they only count one side.....& not the brows?!

It generally doesn’t take long into the conversation, before you can tell if they’re full of it or if they get it.

From: elk yinzer
03-Dec-17
I like to mountain bike quite a bit. I wear normal clothes, have a $400 trek, and I have no clue what most of the lingo means. There are a few big hills in this one area I go, and just about every time I blow by people decked out in spandex with fancy carbon bikes and gopros on their helmets. I'm sure there are mountain biking forums but I've never visited one. My guess is I am not much of a mountain biker in their eyes but in reality I think I am kinda ok at it and see myself as a mountain biker just the same. Just saying, the lingo and the gear may not be the best judge. I'm the same way as you when it comes to hunting though. Talking to the average hunter for more than 5 minutes usually makes me want to gouge my ears out.

03-Dec-17
I've been a snob for quite some time as well. I'm not hateful, but if someone calls me out, then I'll talk. You're also correct, the average hunter doesn't hold a candle to some of the guys on this site. I find it very hard to have conversations with these types as well.

From: Woods Walker
03-Dec-17
I've known some really great hunters who gun hunt only, but they are few and far between. Most all of the really good gun hunters I know are also bow hunters. It just makes sense. Bowhunters spend more time in the woods and because of the limited range of the weapon they also spend more time observing deer and where/how they move. And then there's the knowledge we must have of deer anatomy and the tracking.

From: Brotsky
03-Dec-17
What did you expect Pat? You were at the WalMart of restaurants. :)

From: Woods Walker
03-Dec-17
Hey now.....the fried green bean appetizer is pretty darn good!

From: Bowfreak
03-Dec-17
Its funny you say this. I had a guy corral me at a middle school basketball game last week. He walked up to me and the first thing he asked me was "did you kill a big deer this year...I mean do you hunt?" I said yes I hunt but tried to immediately change the subject. I was trying to stave off the fact that he was getting ready to show me pictures and then expect me to reciprocate. I like people. I really do and I actually enjoy talking to people but when the topic of hunting comes up, I really don't like to talk to strangers about it and honestly don't like to talk to people I know about it, I don't even really like to talk to hunters about hunting. I normally only talk to a couple people locally about hunting and after that all of my hunting discussions are with Bowsiters and a few other guys I met on other forums. In reality 95% of any serious discussion I have about hunting is with people I met on forums, mostly this one.

I didn't really see myself as a snob but I guess others might. I just see it as braggadocios if I pull out pictures of a DIY elk hunt I took out west, or a nice buck I shot and flash them to some guy who is so thankful for the fact he tagged a 1.5 8 pt in rifle season. They immediately look at me as I must either be rich or crazy as they don't understand or share the same level of passion.

From: DL
03-Dec-17
Bowhunting definitely gives you skills that I would never have got rifle hunting but one thing I do not want to get like and that’s like some of the fly fisherman with thousands wrapped up in gear and duds. Then looking down there nose at anyone else. If it was about catching fish, Worms Rule. In every sport or hobby there will be those that think they are for superior. Hats off to you Pat for gnawing on your tongue.

From: Jaquomo
03-Dec-17
I don't think I could've bit my tongue. I had some rifle hunter today tell me my whitetail from this year is a "nice little buck" when he looked at it. I've known him for decades and know for a fact that he has never killed a 120 whitetail with his gun, much less one pushing 150.

DL, I'm one of those fly fishermen with thousands tied up but I don't look down my nose at anyone and hate those guys who do. Know way too many of them. I fly fish because in most situations it's flat-out the best way to catch the most and biggest trout where I fish, if you know what you're doing. When I'm walleye fishing I use bait-tipped jigs or crankbaits because that's the best way.

03-Dec-17
I don’t think I could have held my tongue, especially when people are giving out misinformation. My jaw is still hanging open!

From: wild1
03-Dec-17
Impressive restraint! I try the doing the same, but a few times, when the "rifle talk" knows no boundaries (or time limits), I find myself reaching for my iphone - that move is probably a tad bit smug, but the eventual satisfaction is oh-so-fulfilling!!

From: drycreek
03-Dec-17
I don't have the words........

From: cnelk
03-Dec-17
I think it was a missed opportunity :)

There are only so many in life

From: Thornton
03-Dec-17
Since I'm just a dumb gun hunter that bowhunts 30 days a year I guess I'll have to agree with you. BTW, I could not have kept my mouth shut. You really should have schooled those guys

From: ryanrc
03-Dec-17
Applebee's is the pizza Hut of bar and grills.

From: TD
03-Dec-17
Strangers are easy. I have relatives that know I live and breath "hunting" but don't understand the bowhunting thing. Always trying to talk hunting, I really try to avoid it. They are all rifle hunters and constantly trying to invite/include me on various hunts. I'm not a hunting snob,I really am happy for those hunters. But my time right now is incredibly limited. I'd rather do a totally solo 10 day bowhunt than some big family hunt. I love my family (pretty much) but would rather watch paint dry than go on a rifle hunt.

It would be like going to a 10 day wedding......

03-Dec-17
I agree. I have learned to just keep my mouth shut, or try and change the subject. A week ago I had a cashier at Cabelas tell me her husband shot a 7x7 bull elk that weighed 1200 lbs. I took the bait reluctantly, and not knowing where he was hunting I asked her if it was a Rosey. She said yes, and that he shot it in Idaho! I bit my tongue as well. As my wife and I walked out the store I made a little chuckle, so my wife asked me what that was for. So I explained.

From: Brotsky
03-Dec-17
We’re their names Ricky Bobby and Cal Naughton? Did they have smoking hot wives? :)

From: DL
04-Dec-17
Jaq, most of my fishing out here was salmon&steelhead.. For years I did my bowhunting underwater. Spearfishing was my thing to do.

I usually don’t even get near arrogant people. I’ll walk away than listen to it. But sometimes it just needs to be done. Heard one guy at a fast food in eastern Oregon taking about why he didn’t hunt anymore. He said that he’d been shot twice while rifle hunting. Said he had to shoot one of the guys. I had to get up and leave. Musta taken a round in the head.

From: Glunt@work
04-Dec-17
Its a pretty common situation. I tend to nod and not correct them. Its also is a constant reminder to be honest when discussing subjects I don't know much about. Aside from just being the right way to live, you never know who are talking to.

From: ohiohunter
04-Dec-17
Two things amaze me.. 1) that you were able to endure such ignorance, yet held your poker face through it. 2) How misinformed those guys are in this day of age. You'd have to be completely devoid of all learning capabilities not to accidentally become whitetail educated to carry on as described.

Sad part is is if you had decided to inform them they probably would've been offended.

From: Nick Muche
04-Dec-17
I absolutely love to talk about hunting with like minded and well informed people. I could sit and talk with other guys that share the same obsession for hours and hours, often times we do just that. On the other hand, I find it very hard to talk about hunting with people that do not share the same level of obsession as I do so often times I hold my tongue. Unless they seemed eager to learn or interested to a higher degree in the conversation, I think I would have taken the same approach as you did Pat.

From: dg72a
04-Dec-17
Amazing that you held it together. I think I would`ve filled their heads with shiit.... lol

04-Dec-17
It may be the restaurant. I hang out at Subway and always have wonderful conversations. Give them a try.

04-Dec-17
Pat total class act there,,and JTV ,I have started letting my brain work before my mouth does,,seems that it works,but its tough sometimes.....especially when people start spewing idiotic statements about hunting,,example,,the 30 ish YR Old guys I share a lease with constantly say,," if the drury brothers can do it,so can I"

From: Nick Muche
04-Dec-17
^^^^ You have to watch out for those 30ish year olds!

From: Grubby
04-Dec-17
Sounds like here at work, all you hear is deer hunting for about a week either side of the gun season. experts on every aspect of it. I keep my mouth shut nowadays too with all but a select few.

From: Woods Walker
04-Dec-17
Unless I'm with my "tribe", I tend to keep my mouth shut for the most part also. Why discuss something that has been such an intense part of me for over 5 decades with someone who you may as well be speaking Chinese to?

Once in a great while though I'll meet someone and by chance I'll catch a word or observation about something outdoors and that will lead into both of us realizing that we're talking to a "brother". I recently completed a job where the husband and I did just that. Not only did we both realize that we were talking to "kin", but that we both hunted and fished the same areas in our lives.

From: Buskill
04-Dec-17
Southwest Va must be a lot different than where you guys live. We have our share of uneducated hunters but I know plenty of guys who are great hunters that hunt gun season only or that use whatever weapon is legal at the time . Maybe it’s a regional thing ...

From: keepemsharp
04-Dec-17
Was in an art gallery in Breckenridge, all the photos were by one guy that spent a lot of time in Alaska. There was a pix of a sow grizz with three mostly grown cubs. I pointed out it was unusual to raise three to that age. The air head blonde clerk asked why, I said because the boars will kill them. She said "I thought they only had to fear Sarah Palin". My wife grabbed my sleeve and made us leave.

04-Dec-17
I’ve been there concerning other subjects. Given the certain situation, I’ve stayed quite or gently corrected the misconception. In that situation, I’d probably just did as you did.

It is unbelievable to me that most people exhibit the inability to know of what they speak. Everyone lives on their emotional heart strings. Which sure leads to a lot of misunderstandings.

I do agree that by and large, this group is the most highly educated and, highly experienced hunters I have ever been a part of. Most here just know their deer hunting. It truly is a direct reflection of the leadership of this forum. Just the way it is. God Bless

From: Zebrakiller
04-Dec-17
so spot on

04-Dec-17
Pat, I think you should've straightened them out on it. You should've just told them that if that rule was an absolute that would mean a spike (two point) is a one-year-old and that will be the case in some cases. However, since a spike is always a spike his whole life, what they were saying is false. Rookies, smh....

From: Deertick
04-Dec-17
It's easy to know what you're good at ... the tough thing is understanding what you're an idiot at.

From: Killbuck
04-Dec-17
I started getting into it with a guy @ Subway. He was telling me he could easily out run a Black Bear! Also, a guy @deer camp told me deer have upper front teeth. Guy had killed several deer and swore he had skulls to prove it. Both times I just walked away.

From: BTM
04-Dec-17
Proverbs 26:4 has served me well in life: "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him."

Another one I heard as a youth: "The hardest thing in the world is to know how to do something right, watch it being done wrong, and keep your mouth shut."

Reminds me of the time I overheard some kid in a bar talking about how he shoots beer cans at 400 yards with his hunting rifle while leaning across the hood of his truck...

From: 12yards
04-Dec-17
You should have showed them a couple big ones Pat, then maybe they'd have shut up.

From: Owl
04-Dec-17
Bowsiters should be a higher grade of hunter merely by the mechanisms of participation. Yes, there is a ton of entertainment value but, fundamentally, this thing functions as a virtual master class for the sport. The community format is rather self-selecting, too. The value is dictated by the quality of discourse and that is where the Bowsite stands apart.

From: Jack Harris
04-Dec-17
I bet they think a spike will always be a spike too :)

You should have shown them your Canada buck - they would have said it was 40 years old! LOL

From: Kodiak
04-Dec-17

Kodiak  's embedded Photo
Kodiak  's embedded Photo
Who in their right mind doesn't like a good butterburger? Buncha commies!

From: Bou'bound
04-Dec-17
in the end they were happy with the results of their season so all is fine. it really matters to nobody that they are ill informed and delusional. The intent was to be helpful, but they did not have the knowledge to execute their plan.

you are so right not to get into a comparison or correction mode. no need no upside.

From: Brotsky
04-Dec-17
That's Culver's not Applebee's!

Pat, you should have shown them some of the CT live hunts here to further boost their ego:)

From: Griz
04-Dec-17
I don't think it is fair to assign this tag to rifle hunters only. I know a fair share of people who "think" they are bowhunters but haven't a clue. I also know rifle hunters who are true woodsman. In general, no matter the topic, there will always be a clueless bunch. I even see it in classic cars. Everyone is an expert because their brother Hank had a GTO back in "68.

From: Trial153
04-Dec-17
I agree pat. It’s sad but in a hunting sense I have no commonality with the avg hunter in NY. I have found myself conversing and socializing with similar bowhunters of a like mindset and for the most part they aren’t local to me.

From: Kodiak
04-Dec-17
Oops yer right Brotsky, I stand corrected! Applebee's sucks!

From: BTM
04-Dec-17
Amen, Griz!

From: OFFHNTN
04-Dec-17
Oh my..........that points = half their age thing has me rolling!!! Hahahahaha.......... You did better than I would've Pat!

From: Timbrhuntr
04-Dec-17
I usually don’t even get near arrogant people. I’ll walk away than listen to it. But sometimes it just needs to be done. Heard one guy at a fast food in eastern Oregon taking about why he didn’t hunt anymore. He said that he’d been shot twice while rifle hunting. Said he had to shoot one of the guys. I had to get up and leave. Musta taken a round in the head.

If I told some of my rifle moose hunting stories you would no doubt walk away from me too but they are all unfortunately true and yes I did get shot at (luckily poor shots) twice and even had to return fire in one occassion !!!!

04-Dec-17
I kinda in a weird way wish you would slapped your big buck photo in the face of the expert. Coulda ended the discussion pretty quick probably. Or he may have hounded you the rest of the night. I opt to act the way you did most of the time. I had a fella tell me to stick to cornfields though. Best advice he ever gave me and I kinda felt like he was a tard at the time.

From: JayZ
04-Dec-17
A guy I work with hunts a fair bit with a rifle. I've got a whitetail mount in my office. He's came in several times and he starts talking about going to Kodiak. Then starts to tell me the big deer (blacktails) he saw on his last trip. Points at my whitetail and says we saw a couple that big.

The whitetail grosses 157". I doubt he saw one let alone two that big. haha.

From: Mad Trapper
04-Dec-17
Pat I would have handled it the same way. It has been five years since I have taken a PA buck. I guess that I am not much of a hunter by most of my neighbor's standards. Oh well. I will keep trying and will keep my mouth shut. We are in the middle of our rifle season and my wife and I were in a local restaurant on Saturday night when some guys wearing orange came in. I overheard them talking about missing some does that were running across an open field. It made me cringe. I find it even harder these days when I hear of somebody making a 900+ yard shot on a sheep and then call it hunting. That is some awsome shooting (some that I could not match), but in my book, that is not hunting. Hunting begins after you have hauled yourself 850 yards up the mountain without being detected and then executing a shot. It doesn't matter what weapon you have in your hand though.

From: Outdoorsman
04-Dec-17
I agree with Griz, some of the most knowledgeable hunters I have hunted with have been rifle hunters only and I have the utmost respect for them. The guys in this situation, while clearly confused, were proud of the deer that had been taken. Any hunter should be proud of the deer they have taken, regardless of size. If not, we shouldn't be pulling the trigger or letting an arrow fly. Seems they were nice enough to try and offer some advice to someone they mistakenly felt needed some help. I have been hunting for a long time and consider myself to be pretty knowledgeable, but certainly far from an expert. I enjoy talking about hunting with anyone who shares the passion, regardless of their expertise... as the long as the tone is respectful. You did the right thing biting your tongue. Had they been arrogant jerks... that would have warranted a very different response!

From: Genesis
04-Dec-17
I remember one time being on a plane with a member of "Fosspack" and a similar converstion insued but these rocket surgeons were very very obnoxious.On learning that we were "mere" bowhunters and probably never shot much they ramped up the yack. Little did I know this member had sneaked in his photo album of bowkills....... We flew the remaining two hours in total silence!!!! Watching a group of guys getting humbled and neck stomped as my buddy with great diabolical craftsmanship turned the screws ever so tighter......Priceless

From: Junior
04-Dec-17
I keep my mouth shut and listen as long as I can. I always remember the wise words," "You can learn something (may not be hunting info) from everyone you meet, and even more from the dumbest one in the room"! After all he has likely already made the most mistakes.

From: 1boonr
04-Dec-17
I shot a 19 point nontypical in 2003 that we think was 9 1/2 so he may be right on the age thing. ??

From: XbowfromNY
04-Dec-17
you lost me at Applebees and upstate NY.

From: DL
04-Dec-17
After the meal as you get up to walk out show them the buck picture and leave. Mic Dropped!

From: APauls
04-Dec-17
I've been in the same boat quite often. I really prefer to keep my mouth shut - doesn't matter if it's fishing or hunting talk. It's also amazing how "open" people get when they think you're the idiot. I've often got a lot of good information from people that are "having sympathy" on me. Even from the clowns, if you listen and read between the lines there is often some good intel in there.

I'm generally not trying to go all incognito and get everyone's secrets, but I feel like I can always learn something from everyone, so I just always talk as if I want to learn. People generally take the "wanting to learn" attitude to mean that I obviously don't know anything for starters. Oh well, it can be funny when those people sometimes see your results later and kind of look at you scratching their head ;)

From: tobinsghost
04-Dec-17
Brotsky,

You saying those names made me harder than a diamond in an ice storm!

From: Stekewood
04-Dec-17
^

TMI

From: kscowboy
04-Dec-17
It's always humorous when people want to get into a Richard measuring contest. I went to undergrad in TX and they were some of the biggest braggarts in the world. I lived among them, so I can say it. I found it to be true that if many of them did something once, they were "experts" on the subject. Fly fishing, whitetails, Africa, etc.

That being said, I have a father who is very well-versed in hunting. He has many whitetails that may or may not make B&C (never scored one), has 4 of the African Big 5 (none of these are RSA trophies), and has his FNAWS/Grand Slam of sheep. He has a lot of other hunting accomplishments. Bottom line is that he's never been one to beat it over someone's head if they want to talk hunting. He just nods his head and has a pleasant conversation with the person and listens to their stories. I found that most big time hunters are like this--they conduct themselves as gentlemen.

You took the high road, Pat. Always a wise decision.

From: GF
04-Dec-17
I have to agree with Outdoorsman that no-one should ever shoot an animal they don’t feel good about. If you can’t honestly say that you’re just happy to have the meat, then don’t shoot anything. Why people would take an animal and then make excuses for it....???? I just don’t get it. Do they have something to prove and can only do it with hero pictures? Does it take any more skill to kill a “scrub” buck than to let it walk??

You’d have to be a first-class prick to bust on a guy for being proud of having taken an animal in Fair Chase. But then there are a bunch of first-class pricks out there who go well beyond being proud of a successful hunt, and you can’t ever win with those guys.

People have been sharing words of wisdom on this one, so here’s my contribution from my dad:

Never get into a pissing contest with a skunk.

If some jerk wants to get into a Big Weenie contest and you can throw down on him, then go ahead if it pleases you to be able to win a Big Weenie contest.. I can just never tell if people are trying to prove that they HAVE the biggest or they ARE the biggest. I know I’m not going to win the former and I’d rather NOT win the latter, so I try to take the advice of “if you’ve got nothing good to say....”.

And if you can’t think of anything, you can just smile and say “Wow... it's been a long time since I shot a buck that size”...

From: Scrappy
04-Dec-17
APauls I become the village idiot when people start asking questions. Been burned a time or to by folks seeking info and was to dumb to realize I had given to much.

04-Dec-17
It's like a tractor beam of hotness. She walked right up to me and grabbed my…

04-Dec-17
Only thing good at Applebee's is the liquor.

From: BigOzzie
04-Dec-17
I live, eat, breath, hunting, anyone that knows me knows I hunt alot. I get alot of conversations starters with, how did you hunting season go. It always goes well, it is hunting, I don't have trophy picts, and many times my trophy is a doe. I shot a wall hanger this year for the first time, and my response is I got a good one, sorry not pictures.

oz

From: BOWNBIRDHNTR
04-Dec-17
I also enjoy discussing hunting with most of my close hunting friends and immediate hunting family....those that "Get it". To everyone else I just try to be polite and follow the "SMILE & NOD" rule.

From: The Kid
04-Dec-17
Ohhh Pat......not Crapplebees......

From: M.Pauls
04-Dec-17
Very interesting way to disguise a plug for Applebee’s. Pat, please remove this thread...all seriousness what’s with the no love for Applebee’s?? Sheesh, guess I’m low class

From: MathewsMan
04-Dec-17
I have a rule I abide by when I'm someplace with my wife- I am not to bring up hunting and talk about it unless the other person initiates the "hunting" dialogue...

She will not go with me to any sort of banquet or hunting shows- I can see how it gets tiresome to her and not much for her to hear about it.

From: rodb
04-Dec-17
These are the type that give away hot fishing spots and great places to hunt. All you need to do is listen and eventually the spill the beans.

From: Franzen
04-Dec-17
Nothing wrong with hitting the local watering hole when times are tough and you haven't been finding your quarry. ;^)

From: cnelk
04-Dec-17
"These are the type that give away hot fishing spots and great places to hunt. All you need to do is listen and eventually the spill the beans."

Ive done this. Go into a small mtn town on a Friday/Sat night during archery season and buy some hunters some drinks.... loosens the lips

From: Grasshopper
04-Dec-17
I've been to Rome, NY. It's a good policy to not say anything to anybody while there.

From: kellyharris
04-Dec-17
Boubound & Outdoorsman spot on!

Maybe I am looking at this wrong (perhaps it’s my sore back)?

But this is such an elitist post for a second I thought I was on the leatherwall?

They are hunters regardless of their knowledge we need them as our friends not to be berating them.

Every single one of us had the exact same level of expertise as they do at some point in their hunting lives.

They killed deer they accomplished what they set out to do! Are they misinformed? Yes I would think so to a degree but hey they are doing better than I do lately.

So many people on this forum bash leatherwall guys for constantly putting others down yet it’s rampant on this post about gun hunters.

With a deer harvest success rates around (I believe) 33% they have done what 66% cannot do!

Yes there is a boatload to learn on this site and I have learned a ton especially when it comes to blood tracking. Some of you guys are amazing on the science of blood splatter.

Remember at the end of the day there are no two people in the world with the exact same knowledge and this is no different but you do have two guys supporting our passion and that means a lot in today’s world!

I will say this I have never seen another hunting site that (IN MY OPINION) has the degree of accomplished hunters with a bow as Bowsite has. We have folks who are world records holders who post regularly, guys who have all big game species with a bow, etc.

Just remember at the end of the day they are fellow hunters as well.

What’s next? Folks telling people they are wearing their camo all wrong?

04-Dec-17
Kelly,

Good post. I like that you can laugh at yourself. Your day is coming and you will get the last laugh.

From: Griz34
04-Dec-17
The Fiesta Lime Chicken at Applebees is amazing. To hell with all you elitists!

From: Sean D.
04-Dec-17
Not just gun hunters around here, but a bunch of the bow hunters also! I find myself just nodding or saying wow, really, and no kidding a lot. My favorite is when they hold their hands about 3 feet wide and then about 2 feet high and say they have a couple this big running around that they're hunting.

From: Russell
04-Dec-17
Pat,

Without you correction the ill-informed hunter, you are contributing to the problem. You're an accomplice whether you acknowledge it or not.

Suggest employing a bit of tact and educate the ones that need it.

You can lead a horse to water, but...

From: t-roy
04-Dec-17
I’m glad to see that some good came out of the “Small buck shaming” thread after all!

From: Bob H in NH
04-Dec-17
I think you handled ot right. You're in foreign territory and outnumbered by locals AND You're in between them

Smile, nod and drink your beer

04-Dec-17
I hate Applebees,,,,,I feel better...

From: ohiohunter
04-Dec-17
Any chance we could get a class action lawsuit against applebees for false advertisement... Have you ever gotten an entree there that remotely resembles the picture?! Once my girlfriend ordered an avocado salad, it had ONE slice of avocado... ONE!

Whats this I hear about people shooting small bucks! or high fenced bucks!

04-Dec-17
THREAD OF THE YEAR.

It’s actually nice to sit back and look at the excitement when those kind of stories are told. I’d never rain on anyone parade, when they are happy, I’m happy, but it sure doesn’t mean I’m with them.

Heck, I’m eating more whitetail tags these days because of the knowledge gained over the years.

I’m no “ know it all” but Bowhunting sure has schooled me in more ways than one.

From: Inshart
04-Dec-17
Just read this thread - I agree with Kelly 100%.

Have you ever had someone poke fun at you? Just real poor taste to belittle a couple guys for (what sounds like) they were being sincere.

Who knows, just maybe they are both bowsiters (or used to be).

Gotta just shake my head at this post.

From: YZF-88
04-Dec-17
If you pass an opportunity at a deer, it'll probably get smarter. Not the case with people at an Apples bar. Shak'n Bake!

From: SBH
04-Dec-17
X2 What Nick said.

04-Dec-17
Rich,what an EPIC STATEMENT!!! I believe I'm having the same issue,,,overly informed!!! That's it,,,I'm crawling back into the hole I came from before I ran across bowsite....booner next year!!!

From: Pat Lefemine
04-Dec-17
Not sure why a couple of you guys thought I wasn’t engaged in the conversation, not. happy for them, or wishing they would leave me alone. ? Far from it. But since the overwhelming majority seem to understand my point I’ll leave it alone.

I like talking to all people. I just found the conversation funny because they felt compelled to help me after I told them I never killed a buck in NY.

They were good guys. I was not disparaging them.

And why no love for Applebee’s? Yeah, it’s not Morton’s but it’s a 25$ bill, not $250!

From: Jethro
05-Dec-17
You should have introduced yourself. Could possibly be those guys only chance to meet somebody big in the industry. Just think of the deer camp stories if they'd know that the short, stocky, bald guy they end up sitting next to in Applebees was a hunting industry icon. Forever they'd be able to say "one time I met that Pat Lefe(however you pronounce it) guy from Bowsite".

From: Will tell
05-Dec-17
I like to hunt with a Osage self bow off the ground for the challenge of getting shots at 15 yards and under. I do a lot of listening but keep my yap shut about trophy hunters. Come on down and join me with a stick bow and then we can talk turkey.lol

From: SaddleReaper
05-Dec-17
Pat some of my relatives live in Rome area (maybe I shouldn't admit that?), so I've spent a bit of time there and I'm not surprised by this at all. I honestly think there is sometimes a correlation between where one lives/ hunts and the outlook they have on hunting, namely what is considered "big" or "mature". This may seem like a silly statement but think about it for a second... If a guy only gun hunts a few weekends each season in the foothills of the Adirondacks, he may only ever see the occasional fork or 6 or 8pt. So over the years that sighting of a 100" 8 becomes "I saw a monster"... Nothing wrong with it at all, I wish I felt the same excitement with deer of that caliber!

I think you did good Pat... there's nothing to be gained by raining on someones parade.

So...what sort of help did they offer up? Advice on how to track down a 6 year old 6 point? :)

From: Pat Lefemine
05-Dec-17
Saddle reaper, they asked me if I had railroad tracks around. One of the guys looks for deer crossings next to railroad tracks and sets up within rifle range. That’s where he killed his buck. They also mentioned hunting cut cornfields where they find “mature tree rubs”.

From: XbowfromNY
05-Dec-17
Morton's is better than Applebees- since when? both are garbage.

From: Kodiak
05-Dec-17

Kodiak  's embedded Photo
Kodiak  's embedded Photo

From: Ironbow
05-Dec-17
Someone mentioned trying to correct some of these mis-guided folks. I am not sure that is possible most of the time.

I own a bicycle shop, and I learned a long time ago not to try to correct statements that are so far off the wall you cringe. Most people don't want to be taught, many could care less, and some won't understand a thing you just said. I have lots of people come in and try to tell me about bikes, they are usually the ones that know the least about bikes!

It is really rare to have someone come in and ask thoughtful questions, which I will happily spend hours helping anyone that needs help. Those folks often become great customers and even better, friends.

And yes, I have been in bicycle (and archery shops) where the guy behind the counter doesn't know squat. Makes me cringe a bit when I over hear some of the conversations that go on. And I KNOW there is a lot I don't know, there is always something to be learned, but what I do know I learned by a lot of trying and reading and actually using the product. But I always try to remember I am only know what I have experienced.

I don't think Pat could have done anything that would have helped these guys.

From: RutnStrut
05-Dec-17
What's even worse are the ignorant hunters who have lucked into a good animal or two. There are a few shooting house, corn pile sitting, crossbow shooting, wind direction don't matter types around here that have done just that. They will outright laugh at you and tell you how dumb you are, if you. Scout, hunt the wind, have multiple stands set up, worry about your entry/exit, etc...

From: GF
05-Dec-17
Everything you need to know, right here:

https://ed.ted.com/lessons/why-incompetent-people-think-they-re-amazing-david-dunning#review

05-Dec-17
that's funny stuff pat.....you could of floored them with last year's bucks....based on the points/age system they were using you definitely got some olds ones ...ha! that being said I'm 90% bowhunter,but i do enjoy picking up a gun and hunting with a group of friends or going light and doing some stocking in big woods.

From: PA-R
05-Dec-17
No matter where u live, when deer season comes around, same O, same O. Lots of luck to all, who know the drill.

From: t-roy
05-Dec-17
Obviously, they didn’t see your boots. They would have recognized you instantly.

From: LUNG$HOT
05-Dec-17
Huh... aging deer by there teeth? To think this whole time I’ve been counting rings on the inside of the anus kinda like a tree! ;-)

From: lawdy
05-Dec-17
Best hunters up here are the guys who work in the woods 6 days a week, grab a rifle on Sunday, take a track and kill a buck. Unlike the areas most of you live, most bowhunters up here sit in a tree stand over a pile of apples or grain. I am the only one who in our area who ground hunts with a longbow. One logger in our village shot a 276 pound buck, and another shot a 230 pounder. This is big timber country and tracking and still hunting is what us locals grew up doing. Baiting was considered poaching when I was young, and is frowned upon by most old-timers. Horns don't mean much up here, weight is the biggie. My neighbor who is a tracker and rifle hunter, shoots only 200 pound deer. He tracked 14 bucks before he shot the one he wanted. As he says, you only get one tag and you might as well get your money's worth. I have hunted around the Benoits and Hal Blood. They carry rifles, but they are incredible trackers. Larry Benoit could track a deer on bare ground.

From: JayG@work
05-Dec-17
Pat, sadly, that is what I have been dealing with up here for 13 years. Hunters beating their chests talking about their "racked buck" they shot, and showing pictures of the 200 lb dressed buck they shot.... Actually prolly closer to 120 lbs live weight... As they drive around in the big truck with the big BONE COLLECTOR decal in the back window..... I was in Ohio and talking to some guys about how bad Northern NY is. I opened up NEWZJUNKY and showed them the DEER OF THE DAY that is on the site...... A 14 year old kid looked at it and asked me, "why did the shoot all those small deer?" Then he asked, "and they are posting them on the internet?" It is sad how a 14 year old kid can see it, and the locals here can't..... Welcome to Northern NY and the "if I don't shoot it someone else will" mentality.

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