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The other is a marketing effort on the donor. It often has different dates, trophy fees, extra transfer charges etc.. Often, all of the rules are not avaiable until after purchase.

I appreciate all of the guides, outfitters, Ph's that donate their services. I also understand that they get taken advantage of from time to time.

I recently bought an auction hunt from a reputable PH that was what I would call a marketing ploy. I compared the cost of purchasing the hunt directly from the PH against the auction list and it would have been much cheaper to buy it direct. The trophy fees were greatly inflated, along with higher daily rates for other hunters. I decided to skip the hunt and donate it back to the local SCI chapter I purchased it from. (I did pay for it even though I felt somewhat scammed)

I find this practice somewhat disceptive and disappointing. Do you agree? It doesn’t seem like a donation if you are actually raising your normal rates. To be fair the donor likely did not know I was bringing two other hunters and we would have likely taken more than 20 animals amongst the three of us. I am not going to flame anyone or reveal the donor as that is not the point of the post.

Merry Christmas

I have had mostly good experiences however there were several that were not as good as the others. The Pope and Young club also does a good job of picking their donors.

I have noticed a trend lately of donors doing some silly things that I believe discredit them. An example would be donation good for open dates. Call and find out the open dates and then after you purchase the hunt, the only open dates for the “auction” are non-desirable dates.

I believe it is always best to talk to th donor in person at the show if possible.

There was about a 6 year period from 2008-14 where some of these hunts, especially African safaris were going for .10 cents on the dollar. Some even less, and some not bid on at all. This did very little for the organization, and even less for the outfitter. The economy obviously dictates some of this, but it was becoming well know to hunters inside and outside of these organizations that hunts could be stolen at these fundraising auctions. Maybe a great deal for the buyer, but if the overall goal and purpose was to raise money for a conservation organization, it was a sad situation all around, and in my opinion, an embarrassment to those looking to steal hunts intended to raise money for good causes. It is especially disappointing when the outfitter's give 100% donations with no reserve which means that all of the money raised goes directly to the cause. The donor makes nothing in these situations unless animals and hunters are added.

From my experience with donations at my local chapter, the pricing was offered at the standard rates of the outfitter. The rates were not advertised or intended to be discounted for the special purpose of the event. Why would you discount a hunt that is going to be auctioned at a fraction of it's retail value in the first place? I don't think it is any secret that outfitters donating hunts at these events may offer them at full retail meaning that anyone at any time can contact the outfitter personally and possibly negotiate a better rate on their own, but that is not withing the spirit and intention of the donation in the first place.

We always published an auction list of donations many weeks prior to our events allowing prospective bidders to do their homework and research the outfitter. We also required all donors to post all cost not included in the donations up front. Winning an African safari auction hunt for .10-25 cents on the dollar and then being upset to find out you could have possibly negotiated a better deal on trophy fees at an outdoor show directly with the outfitter is not being deceived in my opinion.

I have personally bought a few auction hunts over the years and had great hunts every time. I have also returned to hunt with a couple of those outfits on my own later down the road. I was not upset or shocked to find that the price they gave me was different than the listed value of the donated hunt.

Congrats to Bear Track for his donation of his bear Hunt. Also to the many Bowsiters who bid for his hunt. BOTH are very Gracious. Merry Christmas!!!

But, if a donor is giving more to market their company than truly help, even though it is a win-win situation, people may not feel comfortable. In some cases a donated hunt that has minimum out of pocket expenses for the outfitter can prove more efficient at marketing and be less expensive than setting up a booth at one or multiple outdoor shows or other approaches to getting visibility.

The most generous donors with altruistic motivations in my experience are the ones you never hear about their selfless acts. The ones who want to broadcast what they have done are the ones that raise skepticism, again IMHO.

Thanks for your generosity Dave!

If they donate it for publicity, treating the hunters poorly and getting bad publicity is likely worse for them than if they had not donated it in the first place!

I also know of others that have purchased them, and have reported being treated like second-class citizens.

The fact that some of them charge more for trophy fees and daily rates for the auction winners also baffles me. I've never seen that disclosed prior to bidding on a hunt, but it definitely happens. I realize it's an attempt to recoup part of their donated amount, but it doesn't leave one with a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Donations are usually part charity, part marketing. If the charity part under-performs, pretty silly to screw up the marketing part as well by being deceptive or providing a poor experience.

Uh.....that's the definition of donation. A donation or a contribution is a "gift" so to speak. Gifts typically are not given with strings attached, (or intent of making money).

My learnings on auction hunts:

Sometimes the reasons for offering are not fully known.

Always read the small print

Investigate before you invest

The best surprize is no Surprize

Invest wisely

I've bought some great auction hunts and I've bought some not so great, but still tried to "make chicken salad" out of what I had purchased.

I respectfully disagree. Some are experts at pulling the wool over people's eyes by tugging at their emotions.

As an example, a relative recently went through a nasty divorce after 37 years of marriage. She picked her attorney going through the phone book. She picked the guy that had a Christian cross in his ad. The family could never convince her to get a different attorney. She got taken to the cleaner.

I am inclined to think that any business that markets themselves with a "look how generous we are, more than anyone else" will always have some of the folks WC Fields talked about.

Heck, some might even use their "generosity" to stifle legitimate criticism against them.

I will pick a business by their most recent reputation for doing business and my wife and I will decide on our own which causes to support. Just my way of thinking which I know others look at things differently.

Thanks!

I wonder if it is worthy to consider an appropriate way in the Outfitters Forum to create a mechanism to specifically identify auction hunt reviews?? I could see some benefit to that. Reputable donors shouldn't have a problem with. Could even be good PR for them.

In our case, I've made sure everyone I know who is considering a hunt with this outfit knows exactly what might happen when they show up. It wasn't right. I used to guide for an outfitter and we treated everyone the same.

Donating outfitters have the choice of offering 100% donations or requesting a reserve bid (partial donation). Donations with a minimum reserve rarely get bid on even though some have been really quality hunts. It's a shame in my opinion because that demonstrates to me that most folks are there to steal a bargain rather than to support the cause.

The outfitters that I have dealt with are there to market there business. That is no secret nor is it a crime. Whether or not it is an effective marketing tool for them is debatable. Hopefully it is effective, so we can continue to receive these donations. Yet, I have never had an outfitter donate for the reason of "Hey look at me and how generous I am." That is simply not the sentiment being conveyed. At least not at any of the events I have been a part of.

Sure, you have to read the fine print....and you really should check them out beforehand.

There is a small % of these hunts that are a loss leader where you have to pay huge additional $$ for species harvested. Most of the African hunts are like that. Its up to you to determine what the actual hunt is worth.

The issue I have is very loose language such as the hunter may book any open dates with the outfitter in 2018 and trophy fees are per price list. I called to find out open dates before I purchased the hunt. I bought he hunt later that evening. I called the outfitter the next day to book the dates and was told since it was an auction hunt the only dates were May and October. In addition, there was a separate trophy fee list for the auction. The trophy fee for a sable was $2000 more than the non-auction price list. In addition, airport pick up was included on the regular price but $500 for the auction.

I believe in the above example, it is really a marketing effort and nothing more. I feel the practice of two different price lists is somewhat deceptive.

I also understand that in many cases these auction hunts are sold at a fraction of their value. It is especially a problem with South African hunts because there are a lot of donations. The North American hunts usually bring a more appropriate value.

Someone made the suggestion above to set an appropriate reserve. I like that solution as an option.

I apologize if my post offended anyone.

Full disclosure, the reason for the post is to bring attention to these practices. As I mentioned in my original post, I donated the hunt I purchased back to the organization. It has troubled me that someone likely bought this hunt and may not have been treated as they expected. I feel like I may have contributed to it.

I would recommend supporting your local auctions and signing up for the GOABC auction in March as an online bidder. With the challenges BC hunters are facing with our newest government we can use all the support we can get.

I think that when outfitter donors do the nonsense of playing 2 sets of numbers, etc. they should be exposed to the community. When hunters stop using their services, perhaps they will understand the cost of lying to the public.

I’ve had Outfitter / owners tell me I was on a discounted hunt when I used a booking agent ..... just saying!

Skinner Creek, Bear Track and Rocking R Ranch have more than supported hunting, through this organization. Sorry if I forgot a couple of names.

I know I will be donating to Wounded Warriors, in this method, through bowsite in the future!!

Bottom Line: Auction buyers should fully understand the hunt they’re buying and donors should fully disclose the terms of the hunt / avoid anything that hints bait/switch. Communication and realistic expectations are key.

Buyers Perspective: Think that Ollie nailed and Sticksender nailed it.

When I bought my first auction hunt I was less than an ideal client - was looking to “steal a hunt” and buy a trip that was far beyond what I could normally afford. It was a disaster for everyone — I did no research, was already stretched to buy the hunt, tried to negotiate further discounts on additional animals, and challenged all additional fees not covered in the donation that were normally covered in the base hunt fee of a direct purchase. The result was = nobody was happy and I unwittingly damaged the relationship between the organization and the outfitter.

Over the years I’ve come to understand that I bear similar responsibility in researching an auction hunt as I do in directly buying one. Doing research about what/where I want to hunt, reading and fully understanding the terms of what is being offered, and actually speaking (or electronic comms) with the donor is critical. After winning the hunt I usually make contact very quickly, thank the donor for his support to the organization, and actively begin planning the hunt. This approach serves me well — and several of my most spectacular trophies were taken on donated hunts.

Organization’s Perspective: SCI, NRA and a select few others are the primary guardians of our hunting rights, and auction proceeds fund these efforts. What many forget is the countless hours of hard work by unpaid volunteers, and the generosity of many donors and supportive buyers that makes these auctions possible.

My personal experience as a buyer is most hunts went off just as advertised, some resulted in lasting friendships and/or fantastic trophies, and a few were dismal and disappointing duds. Pretty close to the same experience I’ve had with direct purchased hunts.

Of the complaints seen over the years, most were folks not understanding the the hunt they were buying, or disappointment in side-deals beyond the terms of the donation. But most of this can be dealt with by doing some homework prior to bidding. Another handicap is the organization doesn’t control who ends up as the high-bidder — it could be the guy who expands the trip and brings a buddy, or “that guy.”

Lastly, we always ask our members to support our donors and give them a shot at earning your business if interested in hunting a species they offer. You might be surprised at the warm welcome from those who’ve already put some “skin in the game”.

Sorry for the long-winded message but it’s a complex topic.

Terry

You auction off a hunt for a great cause. The hunt will receive a lot of multiple media publicity. In all honesty, will this hunter be more likely to be put in your best locations? Will they have a better chance of harvesting game or better odds at a trophy specimen?

I ask because hunters that are non-bidders might end up being affected even by this and not even be aware until their arrival for the hunt. Certainly the pressure to perform by the outfitter in a situation like this would be intense. It could have a lasting effect on business.

If your opinion is that some outfitters would give the bidder a better opportunity, maybe this is a reason regular hunters would want to think about before picking an outfitter who "donated" a hunt?

Most auction hunts are legitimate. Some are simply straight up “loss-leader” marketing ploys. These are almost always African hunts where the auction price buys only one animal and the hunter pays for other animals. In essence, they are fronting the daily rates and one animal on the almost guaranteed premise that the hunter will elect to pay to hunt more animals.

They are not hard to spot if you read the fine print.

The outfitter I 'won' the hunt with -- fraudulent as hell (my opinion) Yes, I should have researched it more/better. When your trophy fees are in most cases 1.5 -2 X anyone else (read market value), I will never trust my family to your unscrupulous hands. When I do go to Africa in 2019 -any guesses whom I damn well, will not be going with?

We had a high bid by the publicly stated closing time. Rules must have changed. Now the auction is re-opened for several more days. No closing time at this point.

Yes, my opinion this is a marketing ploy. Posted here so maybe my post will remain. Asked for an opinion. I gave mine. It should not matter whether or not this is a sponsor.