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Just curious if I'm the only one a little frustrated by the increase in tag prices in Wyoming? Some of them are pretty substantial.
Do you blame them? I wish Colorado would do the same thing. Residents and non residents alike. The forest is filled with hunters already. As otcwill said on another thread, if they raise the price of crack will people stop using it?
I don't blame them I'm just frustrated by it. It just makes it harder and harder for the average Joe to hunt out of state. But I see what your saying I'm not going to stop applying.
No reason to be frustrated other than a couple huge increases like Bison. The fees have been the same since 2008 and the Legislature sets the fees, not the G&F. These increases really still keep the G&F behind in the money they need to operate because at the same time the Legislature raised the fees they eliminated the entire funding of at least $8 million dollars that the G&F was getting from the General Fund. With inflation over that 10 year period and the loss of the General Fund money the G&F isn't swimming in money and they are mandated to do an awful lot for what they get.
you would think 'the powers to be', could tap into some of that oil, gas and coal money from the Energy State of Wy to be allocated for fish and game? Not like it hasn't impacted a lot of the habitat.
The forest is filed with hunters, yes. But saying to raise the prices to get people out of the field is suicide to hunting in general.
Like it or not, we need strength in numbers. We lose hunters, especially out of our own selfishness, to have the woods to ourselves, well, my friend, that’s the beginning of the end.
It amazes me how many people don’t see and realize just how small of a minority we really are.
Yet we advocate for less of us.
Who’ll support your stances once you’ve widdled the supporters down?
PETA and any other organization has their strength in numbers. We lack terribly.
Wyoming’s price increase is to offset costs. They should make the hard decisions business has to, and make cuts. That’s what business has to to in hard times.
It isn’t hard times right now generally speaking for the public but it is for the state of Wyoming. And I know Wyoming’s lost a lot of different funding streams, the loss of certain tags, cow tags, etc...But you’ll never see the prices go down when the economy tanks again. Which is when Wyoming seems to do well, with gas and oil of course.
Concrete I see what you’re saying but the world is becoming more and more about the almighty dollar. The more funds that hunters contribute the more likely politicians are to keep the status quo. If they need us and our $$$ we wield a bigger stick.
I don’t think the price increases are going to keep people from hunting elk.
While I am never happy about any price increase for the same goods or service it’s an unfortunate fact of life. Something that needs to be at least addressed is the revenue stream for funding fish and game agencies on a resident to nonresident ratio.
For example in NY nonresident hunting licenses sales make up slightly less then 13% of the licenses sold however they account for 25% of the gross revenue received from hunting licenses. Fishing is even more skewed. I think this example is most likely low compared to many western states. I think a substantial model needs to bring those ratios inline to ensure long term viable revenue steams.
Wyoming hasn't lost any cow tags and, in fact, are trying to cut the herd down throughout most of the state with more tags and 2 cows allowed per hunter. Since there is no income tax in Wyoming when the energy industry tanks like it has right now the money coming into the state really drops and that's why the Legislature took away the General Fund money the G&F was receiving that went mostly for several nongame type things that they are mandated to do. They are really between a rock and a hard place when the economy in Wyoming tanks because it's easy to say to make cuts, but when cuts are proposed people scream no matter what cuts are proposed.
I saw somewhere there was a 25% increase in Wyoming NR Licenses from 05 to 2015...You don’t pay it, someone else will!
Wyoming hasn’t lost any tags?
The Gardner elk hunt is still going?
Moose permits haven’t been cut?
25% in 10 years isn't much. I don't remember the math anymore, but it's probably less than 2% per year if you figure in compounding.
From: DConcrete 30-Dec-17Private Reply Wyoming hasn’t lost any tags? The Gardner elk hunt is still going?
Moose permits haven’t been cut?
I didn't say that at all! I specifically stated that cow (elk) tags that you mentioned haven't been cut and that is the only thing I stated Sir!
The point is, the fish and games answer that they give for the increase in tags isn’t, we don’t have income tax. It isn’t, the oil isn’t doing well.
The canned answer is, we have had to cut tags and have lost certain hunts. Therefore, we must make up that revenue.
Call me Silly, but I don’t jump up and down for joy when I have to pay more money. I don’t buy Sitka when it’s not on sale. I buy last years model bows. I find everything on sale. I don’t really care what item it is. I don’t seek to pay more.
In business, I’m not going to buy concrete from the most expensive source. Not going to look for the highest price and then pretend that it’s awesome.
The dept increased to license price because the legislature pulled $6 million of general funds that were set aside for the dept.
Um..... I’d be willing to pay for a permit to be able to hunt wilderness. If they are so broke they should think about taking a ransom for the hostage they’ve been holding onto.
The Government had better be careful about continually raising the cost of hunting. ()
**There is no way Government can run like business - Business is for profit, Government is providing services. When a concrete company pours your driveway, YOU, pay for it. When they are contracted to pour a city street WE ALL pay for that.**
***LKH - so did your wages increase by 25% during that time frame as well?
**The fees have been the same since 2008 and the Legislature sets the fees, not the G&F.** YES, BUT AT WHO'S RECOMMENDATION? --- the public, of course not, the requested increase comes form the WY G & F.
Teddy Roosevelt, when creating areas for hunters, stated something to the effect that we need these areas to insure the common man has a place to hunt. If this keeps going the way it is we will end up like European countries where only the elite are "entitled" to hunt.
You can come up with all kinds of reasons for the increase - that's fine - then pass on the hunting increases fairly, across the board instead of always sticking it to the out of state hunter. If the increase is 20%, then it should be 20% for ALL of us.
So.....instead of cutting costs, finding ways to save, cutting people loose. Finding those ways, that can’t be done because they’re not for profit? Ok.
When I was a WY resident in 1998 to 2003, a resident elk tag was $35. Once I moved, I could still draw every year with zero points, but paid more for the tag as a non-resident. I miss those days... I’m more worried that In the near future I most like will only draw a General Tag every 3 or 4 years due to point creep. Man I’m fortunate I was able to live in that wonderful state while I did, amazing memories, and a few dead elk. The point creep bothers me way more than the price increase.
Tag prices are too cheap in most states, Montana included. I would like to see them all go up, for both residents and non residents.
"***LKH - so did your wages increase by 25% during that time frame as well? "
I don't know about LKH, but if I'm not getting at least a 3% increase each year, I feel I'm going backwards. That's about the average salary increase.
I don't mind the hikes as long as the money is going to the wildlife conservation. I always worried that my tag fees would go to paying for obamacare....lol
Like bullsac said, I’m also worried more about point creep than tag prices. Our population is growing... growing too fast. There will come a point in my lifetime that we will likely not be able to hunt elk every year, anywhere. There will simply be too many people wanting to hunt. I understand the strength in numbers argument but at some point we will all be limited to the point of not being able to hunt every year because of it. I guess that’s better than not being able to hunt at all, but I still don’t like the idea of it...
If you were getting 3% per year over the last 3 years, you were doing good with the strength of the dollar. Disposable income is about to get higher so, as long as they keep it in check, it's all inline
Hunter numbers are declining. It may not seem like it with point creep etc...
But overall hunter numbers are down.
I think it's unfair and that you guys should not apply in protest; ). If these WY elk tags were $3000 they would sell out I think. $4000? Maybe not, but maybe, depending on the unit. Elk hunting is a rich man (or a man willing to spend his money) sport. And it does not appear to be getting cheaper (see NM Land Owner tags).
I’m with bullsac and Mossyhorn, cost is the least of my worries.
Heck buying a new pick up truck is a rich man’s sport! I guess I could just drive a Cobalt.... it’s about priorities. If you can’t afford it you’re probably prioritizing something else.
We need a Super Special draw for those who just want to hunt. Or maybe they could start putting elk tags on eBay! Lol
It isn’t about buying a truck vs hunting tags vs new bows vs binoculars vs anything else. I will ageee with you that it certainly is about your priorities as a person.
But what about a father with several children who wants his boys and girls to have points and the chances too? His responsibilities are grand.
Again, look at hunter numbers. Look at how many kids of hunters actually hunt. And it’s a sad picture guys.
And I’d also like to know, besides keeping people from applying, why would some of you like to see all tags, residents and non residents raised? For what?
And for Wyoming not being for profit, they sure hold an awful lot of my money in their bank gaining interest for a long time. And all of yours too.
Lots of talk about WY elk lately on all the forums(yes there are others besides Bowsite). It is weird we get threads saying the elk tag price increase is making it so people can't even afford a tag while at the same time you can read threads wondering if 2 pts will get a GEN tag because there are so many people applying for tags. I know its not all rich folk applying for GEN, cause I will be, and I'm not rich. I will have to be lucky though cause I have no pref pts this year.
From: DConcrete 31-Dec-17 It isn’t about buying a truck vs hunting tags vs new bows vs binoculars vs anything else. I will agree with you that it certainly is about your priorities as a person. But what about a father with several children who wants his boys and girls to have points and the chances too? His responsibilities are grand. Again, look at hunter numbers. Look at how many kids of hunters actually hunt. And it’s a sad picture guys. And I’d also like to know, besides keeping people from applying, why would some of you like to see all tags, residents and non residents raised? For what? And for Wyoming not being for profit, they sure hold an awful lot of my money in their bank gaining interest for a long time. And all of yours too.
***Not positive about your last comment, but I was told by a resident out there that I trust for knowing the facts that Wyoming statute does not allow the G&F to draw interest off that money. If that's true it should change, but even then with the sorry interest rates it may not amount to as much as one might think.
Don't discount the often thought but seldomly expressed happiness at price increases because while it may not limit them it may limit ofters and provide an ancillary Benefit to them in the way of less competition.
I know that’s why people want price increases. To limit others. It’s been expressed here quite a bit really.
And in the short term, that’ll work for personal gain.
In the long run, and it may not be for many years....when hunter numbers are so anemic, it won’t even matter.
Wyoming’s price increases will ultimately be death by 1000 cuts. All I’m saying is, be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
And remember, beware if things that just what you want them to be.
We should focus on hunter recruitment. Not the other way around. I’m sorry folks, but to want people out of the field is very very dangerous. Please think about what you wish for.
Good post DC and one in which I agree 100%! One thing I've been doing to try and get kids involved at a young age is being a mentor through the NWTF Chapter I belong to up here in MI.
So your priority at this point in your life is your kids. That perfectly respectable. But that’s your priority not your own hunting. I have partners in the same boat but they make their hunt a priority pinching pennies all year lol ng and never blink an eye when application time comes.
Work OT. Back off on other expenditures that aren’t necessary. I started a side business specifically to pay for my elk addiction. THAT is making it a priority.
Wyoming puts out draw results faster than any other state and issues refunds fast. And if you only wants the point money for a point only app. Colorado wants the whole tag fee and the refund takes forever.
I have zero complaints about Wyoming or their Fish and Game department.
The moose price hike is a real kick in the nuts. The new PP fee is outrageous and if you’ve been putting in and have several points but are back too far to draw in the PO round, you now have to fork out like $500 more for the tag. And it wouldn’t be so bad if they didn’t keep your money for 3 months. Moose quality in WY is going DOWN and they just put in a thirt-some-odd percent price increase and we are expected to lend them 2 grand for 3 months for less than 1% odds. It’s ridiculous.
Mule power, I can assure you that money for me isn’t a problem. I play the Wyoming game and yes I put my boys in too.
So basically, when I talk about the price increases, I am one that the increase just doesn’t effect.
But that’s not the case for all. The elk hunts in Wyoming are regular hunts. They’re not some Special guided gig unless it’s wilderness of course.
The Wyoming elk hunting is for the regular guy. It’s certainly not the San Carlos
I am simply saying, not everyone is as lucky as I am in life. I’m a lucky man and I will fight for anyone.
I’m glad you have your side gig. I don’t have one and I don’t need one. And I’ll stand up for anyone that wants to hunt too.
I’ll Never, ever weed a person out and I’ll gladly sit out, so others can play the game that was forever life changing to me.
That’s my priority.
My priority is passing them the torch on something that has meant so much to me and brought me so much in my life.
I’m all about passing it on too. I love helping hunters get their first elk. But I believe people make their own luck and good things come to those who don’t wait.
Also... I guess dubbing something a rich man’s game is relative to what you are comparing it to. I think a DIY elk hunt regardless of the cost of the license is a poor man’s sport. That’s because I dream of hunting sheep, grizzlies, and doing fully guided quality moose hunts in the Yukon. A rich man’s elk hunt would be on an Arizona Indian Reservation for what some guys entire year’s pay is.
Some guys think Jim Beam is pricey. I guess they aren’t comparing it to Crown.
I’m just saying, the cost of everything goes up. Pickup trucks go for what houses used to cost. That’s life. I consider it a privilege to be able to hunt elk on public land so I’m content.
I can't imagine a much cheaper vacation than a DIY elk hunt on public land.