Moultrie Products
Only in California
cougar
Contributors to this thread:
DL 03-Jan-18
BOWUNTR 03-Jan-18
Franklin 03-Jan-18
SBH 03-Jan-18
Medicinemann 03-Jan-18
t-roy 03-Jan-18
SBH 03-Jan-18
Ucsdryder 03-Jan-18
IdyllwildArcher 03-Jan-18
IdyllwildArcher 03-Jan-18
Teeton 03-Jan-18
DL 03-Jan-18
HDE 03-Jan-18
JTV 04-Jan-18
GotBowAz 04-Jan-18
Owl 04-Jan-18
Bowboy 04-Jan-18
wild1 04-Jan-18
Nick Muche 04-Jan-18
IdyllwildArcher 04-Jan-18
TrapperKayak 04-Jan-18
IdyllwildArcher 04-Jan-18
Ucsdryder 04-Jan-18
Beendare 04-Jan-18
Zbone 04-Jan-18
jdee 04-Jan-18
DL 04-Jan-18
drycreek 04-Jan-18
lawdy 04-Jan-18
IdyllwildArcher 04-Jan-18
Beendare 04-Jan-18
bowbender77 04-Jan-18
IdyllwildArcher 04-Jan-18
From: DL
03-Jan-18
Mountain lions living in genetically fragile populations in Southern California will no longer receive an automatic death sentence when they prey on pets and livestock.

On Tuesday, the state Department of Fish and Wildlife said it was changing its policy for issuing permits to livestock owners in those areas who are seeking to kill mountain lions. Until now, the permits have been automatically issued if the cat has attacked domestic animals. From now on, the applicant must first try at least twice to shoo the cougar away with nonlethal means.

Although the new policy applies only to the Santa Monica and Santa Ana mountain ranges, it represents a fundamental shift in how the state issues what are known as “depredation permits.” Animal rights groups hope the policy may someday expand statewide, a prospect fiercely opposed by cattle and sheep ranchers.

In 1990, voters approved a ballot initiative that prohibited hunting of mountain lions. To appease livestock groups, the initiative’s backers included language in the law that says the state “shall” issue a depredation permit in the event a cougar attacks pets or livestock. The wildlife agency has always issued lethal permits. California issues around 218 of them every year, though typically less than half result in a kill.

A Sacramento Bee investigation published this fall revealed that since Proposition 117 passed, nearly four times as many lions are killed on average each year than were killed prior to the ballot measure passing.

The state cougar-killing policy came under fire in late 2016 after it issued livestock owners in Malibu a permit to kill a mountain lion known as P-45. The cat was blamed for rampaging through neighborhood llama and goat pens at night, massacring several animals at a time and leaving their carcasses to rot.

Biologists didn’t want the 150-pound cougar killed, because he had injected what they said was badly needed genetic diversity into an isolated population of a dozen or so lions hemmed in by two deadly freeways.

By somehow crossing the freeway and joining the lions on this urban island, P-45 had achieved almost celebrity status in Los Angeles. News that he was targeted for death outraged animal rights activists across the globe. A former Sacramento County sheriff’s deputy, Wendell Phillips, shot the cat on his Malibu property, but it survived and its tracking collar shows he is still in the area.

In response, mountain lion advocates and biologists had pressured the wildlife agency to change its depredation permit policy in the Santa Monica range and in the Santa Ana Mountains, where cougars are similarly cut off from the outside and studies show the cats are dangerously interbreeding.

The fear is the lions in both ranges could eventually go extinct, and that people killing the cats when they attack livestock hastens the process. In the Santa Ana ranges, one 13-year study showed that more than a quarter of the cougars were killed from depredation permits.

“This amendment (to the state’s mountain lion policy) comes after many, many hours of discussion with stakeholders,” said Jordan Traverso, a spokeswoman for the Department of Fish and Wildlife. “We believe we’ve struck a balance that takes into account the various attitudes regarding lions in the state, including the health of these sensitive populations.”

Lion advocates praised the state’s move.

“I think it’s a balanced and sensitive response to the conservation crisis in those two Southern California mountain ranges,” said Lynn Cullens, the executive director of the Mountain Lion Foundation. “We applaud CDFW director (Chartlon) Bonham for taking the time to carefully consider the options that were before them.”

Cullens said the best way to protect livestock from attack is by placing them in fully enclosed, lion-proofed pens at night. Cullens said she hopes the policy shift starts a process that will eventually lead to fewer kill-permits statewide.

Animal welfare activists say that over the years, the depredation-permit policy has morphed into something they never saw coming back in 1990, when the main concern was for commercial ranching.

Now, almost all cougar kill permits are issued when the cats prey on pets owned by 4-H kids and other backyard livestock enthusiasts on the edge of suburbia who keep the animals as a hobby.

Livestock groups say it doesn’t matter whether someone is making a living off the animals the cougars kill – the ballot initiative language for depredation permits makes no exceptions.

Phillips, who is now an attorney, said the state’s new policy is “easily challengeable in court.”

“I think they’re bowing to political pressure, and it’s too bad,” he said. “But the reality is nobody will bother to apply for permits any more. Shoot, shovel and shut-up, that’s what coming.”

From: BOWUNTR
03-Jan-18
"From now on, the applicant must first try at least twice to shoo the cougar away with nonlethal means."

Can someone please explain what this means... Ed F

From: Franklin
03-Jan-18
Where are you going to get the ammo to shoot the cat?

From: SBH
03-Jan-18
love that...."shoo" them away. These people are retarded.

From: Medicinemann
03-Jan-18
Ed....I would claim that I interpreted the "shoo" to be a typo....it was supposed to read "shoot".

From: t-roy
03-Jan-18
“The best way to protect livestock from attack is by placing them in, fully enclosed lion-proof pens at night.”

These are the same idiots who are trying to make it illegal for Californians to buy eggs layed by chickens IN cages!

I really feel for you guys who live there and are subjected to the crap these libtards foist upon you year after year!

From: SBH
03-Jan-18
Medicinemann- HA:) Love it.

From: Ucsdryder
03-Jan-18
Grew up on a ranch. Every night you could count between 15-30 deer feeding in the meadows. A few years after the lion ban the deer were gone. Now you’re lucky to see 1-2 deer on the entire ranch. The habitat couldn’t be better for deer. It was shocking how quickly the lions cleared them out.

03-Jan-18
So much irony.

03-Jan-18

From: Teeton
03-Jan-18
Ed F,, that easy to answer.. I said shoo shoo twice it didn't go so then I shot it. :)

From: DL
03-Jan-18
You can no longer buy ammo out of state. Walmart has removed all there ammo because the state has not sent them legal notice to be able to sell. Marijuana stores have not got authorization to sell but the state just said to write sales down on paper until legal license arrives.

From: HDE
03-Jan-18
Shoot them anyway and tell game and fish to get over it...

From: JTV
04-Jan-18
SSS and be done with it ... if you dont get a shoot thru, dig the bullet and fragments out ..... or just toss the damn thing into a tree chipper .. nah, that might leave some kitty DNA around ...

From: GotBowAz
04-Jan-18
The anxiety I get when I read this and the ridiculous rules/laws that are allowed to be made makes my guts want to turn inside out. My hats off to the hunters there that can stomach California. I dont know how you do it. I cant imagine owning property and having my pets/livestock killed and I can do nothing about it. The cat lovers are trying to push their agenda here in Az now. I sure hope that never happens.

From: Owl
04-Jan-18
"From now on, the applicant must first try at least twice to shoo the cougar away with nonlethal means."

- Never mind the mental depravity required to victimize people with such stupid laws. How do they propose to substantiate the aforementioned antecedent action actually happened?

From: Bowboy
04-Jan-18
Remember they are a sanctuary state now. Must include mountain lions.

From: wild1
04-Jan-18
How in the world does a rancher place his cattle in a "fully enclosed lion-proof pen at night".....?

From: Nick Muche
04-Jan-18
Do California game wardens think this way as well or are they well rounded outdoorsman with a brain between their ears?

04-Jan-18
Nick, some are, and some are total antis who hate hunters. Note the guy who fined a CA deer bowhunter for shooing a Mt Lion in the chest. That's right, in the chest. He had a legal deer tag for the unit and the CO said he was hunting lions even though he reported the kill immediately to F&G.

From: TrapperKayak
04-Jan-18
Sanctuary state extends to cats. If you kill something or someone, you get a free pass. But you must be undocumented. Cat with no rabies cert.

04-Jan-18
Where do I send the medical bill when I get mauled trying to "shoo" a dangerous animal? All prior knowledge and recommendations regarding dealing with wild animals are out the door...

From: Ucsdryder
04-Jan-18
Nick, I ran across a few. Very few brains. They take after the fish and game commission.

From: Beendare
04-Jan-18
Well of course this is what happens when the general public sets wildlife policy.

I think the guys laughing at Ca should consider that these policies set a precedent. They think, "This could never happen in my backyard"...well IT WILL if we don't all band together as hunters.

I doubt the hunters in BC thought they would ever ban Grizz hunting....but they did.

From: Zbone
04-Jan-18
"SSS and be done with it ... if you dont get a shoot thru, dig the bullet and fragments out ..... or just toss the damn thing into a tree chipper"

Nah, just throw it in the middle of the road and turn it into a roadkill...8^) Then they might start managing them for over population...8^)))

Ironically just watched PBS's "Nature" program on Cats and they were showing California wildlife officers who radio collared and were tracking about half a dozen cats in LA suburbia... They were showing a kill site of a mulie doe and you could see and hear a major highway traffic in the background... I'm talking about less than a hundred yards from the highway... They’ve become humanized...

From: jdee
04-Jan-18
How many lions have you seen in the wild ? Not many or none . My mother and her sister used to walk on some hiking trail around Murrieta , CA up in some mountain forest around there and have seen two lions . I spend a lot of time in the wilderness where I live NM and never see them . They must be getting used to people in CA .

From: DL
04-Jan-18
Got Bow, the idiot that started that in AZ is a former CA legislature that moved to AZ.

From: drycreek
04-Jan-18
DL, we have the same problem in Austin, San Antonio, etc. Californians coming here with companies that have moved to a better business climate and bringing their stupid ideas and political views with them. The WALL needs to be on the California border !

From: lawdy
04-Jan-18
When an apex predator loses its fear of humans it is a recipe for disaster. We used to be able to train bear hounds all summer. When they restricted that, along with idiots who fed them, we had serious problems. Antis do not care for the safety of you or your kids. Actually, most don't even truly care about animals. They simply believe that man is not a part of the ecosystem. Humans belong in cities, except for the enlightened of course. The only alternative to starry-eyed ecological phonies is SSS. Sad way to deal with these fool's regulations, but no alternative. If it has a collar, find a deep pond or lake to drop it into.

04-Jan-18
jdee, they were probably hiking on the Santa Rosa Plateau. It's a nature conservancy area that was an old Spanish ranch. There's tons of lions up there. I used to hike up there a lot from when I was a kid in the 80s till the mid-2000s. It's a gorgeous area. Vernal pools, vast rolling old growth live oak hills...

It's also the location of one of California's post-lion-hunting-ban human kills. There was a woman that was jogging there early AM, I think in the early 90s, and was attacked, killed, and eaten. There was also another non-fatal attack up there a few years removed from her death and an old couple attacked in the LA mountains shortly after her death. I remember these growing up as a kid. The sentiment was always, "well, we're going into their backyard," and "well, we've taken their homes," etc.

Till now, F&G has always hunted down these man-eaters so it hasn't gotten to epidemic proportions and caused a public outrage. As long as it's just the occasional person that gets eaten, people don't care.

From: Beendare
04-Jan-18

Beendare's embedded Photo
Beendare's embedded Photo
Just one hound guy working for the State GW has killed 33 lions in the last 2 years in the Sonora area...but DON'T YOU DARE TAKE A PICTURE IN THE BACK OF HIS TRUCK....they don't want the truth getting out.

From: bowbender77
04-Jan-18
I can only hope that one of those BIG cats gets a taste of some Jerry Moonbeam meat.

04-Jan-18
Unfortunately, bowbender, it'll probably be someone's kid next instead of some dumbass hippie.

  • Sitka Gear