Carbon Express Arrows
88 Yard Shot Blog question
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
loprofile 04-Jan-18
nvgoat 04-Jan-18
greg simon 04-Jan-18
jrstegner 04-Jan-18
MathewsMan 04-Jan-18
drycreek 04-Jan-18
BIG BEAR 04-Jan-18
Jaquomo 04-Jan-18
Bou'bound 04-Jan-18
LINK 04-Jan-18
elk yinzer 04-Jan-18
Brotsky 04-Jan-18
Bake 04-Jan-18
DL 04-Jan-18
LINK 04-Jan-18
longspeak74 04-Jan-18
EmbryOklahoma 04-Jan-18
Pig Doc 04-Jan-18
PECO 04-Jan-18
lawdy 04-Jan-18
IdyllwildArcher 04-Jan-18
Missouribreaks 04-Jan-18
Duke 04-Jan-18
ohiohunter 04-Jan-18
Sage Buffalo 04-Jan-18
GF 04-Jan-18
tobinsghost 04-Jan-18
Jaquomo 04-Jan-18
Missouribreaks 04-Jan-18
Jaquomo 04-Jan-18
t-roy 04-Jan-18
deerslayer 04-Jan-18
Pigsticker 04-Jan-18
Shrewski 04-Jan-18
DL 04-Jan-18
TD 04-Jan-18
Sixby 04-Jan-18
LINK 05-Jan-18
ELKMAN 05-Jan-18
JusPassin 05-Jan-18
Glunker 05-Jan-18
Muskrat 05-Jan-18
trophyhill 20-Jan-18
Matt 20-Jan-18
trophyhill 20-Jan-18
Bowriter 20-Jan-18
splitlimb13 20-Jan-18
trophyhill 20-Jan-18
Bou'bound 21-Jan-18
Ambush 21-Jan-18
PECO 21-Jan-18
From: loprofile
04-Jan-18
How many of have read all 180 posts to the Lee Lekosky post and how many have changed their minds based on what they read. I will start out by saying no and no.

From: nvgoat
04-Jan-18
Yes read them all.

No haven't changed mind.

From: greg simon
04-Jan-18
Yes and no.

From: jrstegner
04-Jan-18
Yes and no

From: MathewsMan
04-Jan-18
No and no- but contemplating a single pin sight to push my max higher than 60yds

From: drycreek
04-Jan-18
Yes.

No, and I rarely change my mind because of how or what someone else can do. I tend to stick with what I know I can do.

From: BIG BEAR
04-Jan-18
I watched some You Tube videos of Cam Hanes shooting at 80 yards after reading the thread...... He can make a kill shot at 80 yards every time. I'm sure Lee and Levi Morgan can too.

From: Jaquomo
04-Jan-18
No and no. I don't really care what 180 dickwads think.

From: Bou'bound
04-Jan-18
the same number who have their mind changed on any of the topics that pop up here. damn few.

.............except for the bigfoot threads I think after that one about 84% of the previous non-believers now see the truth.

From: LINK
04-Jan-18
I’ve read all the posts and I’ve decided if Lee can do it, so can I. I’m just going to take my 40 yard pin and aim 53” higher than dead center. After I kill my bull elk at 120 yards I’m going to pack him out solo in one trip just because I watched Cameron Hanes do it. Don’t worry about me though I just watched the adventures of super man....

From: elk yinzer
04-Jan-18
No and no. I think I started reading Bowsite when I was about 14 years old and these threads pop up annually. Every. Single. Offseason. My thoughts remain unchanged from the beginning. But it still feels good to vent once in awhile.

From: Brotsky
04-Jan-18
A better thread would be how many people have killed an animal at X range.

Also, I think we were all dickwads at one time Lou! Ha!

From: Bake
04-Jan-18
I read it. Didn't change my mind.

Killed some boredom though

From: DL
04-Jan-18
The problem with people watching TV and using them as your hunting model is you never see the failures. Now on the opposite side of the issue if your job is to shoot straight on TV you are going to practice a whole lot more than the working stiffs out there.. I’ve seen guys on TV shoot a balloon at 300 yds. I’ve heard of way too many horror stories from people I know of. Three years ago I lot my first deer in 20 years of hunting. He was found two days latter. Friend called and asked if I wanted the antlers. I said no leave them there. I will search for an hour trying to find a duck I’ve shot so when I lost that deer I was sick and it’s going to take a long time for me to get over it. Like so many have said a lot can happen from the time an arrow is released until it travels 100 yds. Have any of you been down range near a target as an arrow is shot? I can hear it coming after it’s shot. If a human can hear it an animal sure can. I realize nothing will change over these discussions. In over 55 years of hunting I’ve never seen the trend that is happening in the last 10 years before. Bow and rifle hunting at long range. Used to be 300yds was a long shot for a rifle. Now it’s the next county. Oh well the best we can do is the best we can do at making sure we shoot straight. I wish we had the tracking skills that Africans have. No game would ever be lost.

From: LINK
04-Jan-18
DL tell you buddy thats down range to get rid of his vented broadheads and blazer vanes and you’ll be surprised how quiet his arrow is.

From: longspeak74
04-Jan-18
Yes and No...

04-Jan-18
Yes, and no because I already knew I am not capable. I did learn there are folks who can do stuff with archery tackle I never had or will have the ability to do.

Lou, technically you were one of those 180 dw:)

04-Jan-18
I have not read every post on the thread. That would make my head hurt. That thread is like baiting or broadheads... multitude of opinions and they all vary.

From: Pig Doc
04-Jan-18
No and no. I read a lot of them but when I see some posters names I automatically skip reading their post because I know what they have to say is horse crap.

From: PECO
04-Jan-18
Yes and No. I'm one of the dickwads, there are a few of us dickwads that contribute multiple times, so there are actually less dickwads than you think!

From: lawdy
04-Jan-18
Not sure my longbow with an ash arrow will shoot 80 yards unless I shoot at a wicked angle,or attach an Estey model rocket engine to the arrow.

04-Jan-18
Yes and no.

04-Jan-18
I read them, it is a fact compounds and crossbows can kill animals way, way out there. Why deny that?

From: Duke
04-Jan-18
NO and NO... Hilarious post above, PECO, ya dickwad!

All others' opinions... I'll hunt as I hunt and do as I do and you can do the same.

From: ohiohunter
04-Jan-18
Nope, and while I agree it does entice the avg weekend warrior to attempt similar feats I will not fault the skilled person executing such shot. I would've preferred them to omit such information rather than glamorizing it. This world has far too many dipshits in it who's actions end up robbing others of their rights, we need some good old fashion Darwinism!

From: Sage Buffalo
04-Jan-18
No but I will say one thing the more and more long range shots that happen I can guarantee you F&G starts thinking, "Do we need an archery season since they are shooting the same distance as most Muzzleloader guys?"

Watch. Keep jacking up 80, 100 and 120 yards and all of a sudden we will be lumped in with ML season. Just saying...

From: GF
04-Jan-18
" I would've preferred them to omit such information rather than glamorizing it."

Yup.

From: tobinsghost
04-Jan-18
I just got drunk on OVER!

No and no. I'm with The Feral One!

From: Jaquomo
04-Jan-18
Sage Buffalo, at a Colorado public forum on setting the 5 year season structure a few years ago, one of the CDOW officials moderating the meeting said exactly that. He said "I watch your videos, I read your forums, I see the pictures on the 'brag boards' at the shops with the distances written on them. You guys aren't shooting primitive weapons anymore."

04-Jan-18
I agree, no longer a need for special seasons.

From: Jaquomo
04-Jan-18
Deleting this post, and Missouribreaks I apologize for the tone and the unwarranted attitude.

From: t-roy
04-Jan-18
Yes and yes. Then I read them again and changed my mind again, so I’m really not sure where I stand now.

From: deerslayer
04-Jan-18
Some and no.

From: Pigsticker
04-Jan-18
Hmm, getting a little personal here. We have the nice guys not being so nice.

Colorado fish ad game should not be trying to determine what is a primitive weapon as long as they openly whore out the states resources.

I don’t know what the dog is here. My answer is yes and no. I let everyone determine what his distance is because eventually in the field he will do so with or without my approval. What is the magic distance for everyone to so ok that is good. I personally would shoot a sheep at 70 yards where I would typically not shoot fifty yards at a whitetail but have taken elk at 65 yards. Different animals under different conditions determine the distance. I am no Robin Hood but I probably practice one hundred fifty times a year. Did anyone condemn Fred Bear for shooting a stone sheep with its body hidden behind the slope of the hill? Would you condemn Nick or Forest for the same shot. Hell, go to the range with many stick bow guys and you may not want them shooting twenty yards but I know several who kill animals in the field much better than they do on targets. Many young guys do not have the built in inhibitors that us older guys have since we continually try to drag the past into the future. We have literally come out of the dark ages as far as equipment concerned and we are trying to maintain the same standard. Anyone who shot a deer at fifty yards without a range finder was freaking guessing at best with a compound of yesteryear. I have been doing this gig for close to forty years and my forty yard max has moved to seventy plus. I have lost very few animals in the last twenty years. Actually, I probably lost five times the animals in the first twenty as I have in the last twenty. I have pulled off on shots thirty to fifty and have been amazingly confident at animals beyond that distance. So exactly what is the right answer. I saw lee’s Shot and he did it without hesitation. Under similar circumstances I may take the same shot all the while have turned down and will continue to turn down shots at lesser distances.

From: Shrewski
04-Jan-18
Read it all. Have not changed my mind; he’s got to live with himself and I hope he is happy with his decision.

I do find it fascinating how many sheep hunting experts there are on the Bowsite and how different their “hunts” are compared to my sheep hunts and the others that have responded that I personally know have hunted sheep with bows both stick and compound.

Sheep and goat hunts aren’t sitting over a corn feeder...so to me it’s rather difficult to judge if you have not walked in ol Lee’s shoes. And there is a lot of judgment going on by a lot of dudes that have not done much walking...

From: DL
04-Jan-18
Sage brings up a good point. We may find the arechery season means non compound bows. These fringe anti hunters might not be able to stop hunting but they could stir crap up. Muzzle loaders may mean primitive muzzle loaders with iron sights. Archery season could become stick bows only. Nothing surprises me anymore. But I live in California where you can’t shoot a lion if it’s killing your pet or livestock. You can only shoo them away.

From: TD
04-Jan-18
Read em, yes. Changed mind, no.

Why would I? I've never set foot on these guys lawns in my life.....

From: Sixby
04-Jan-18
Single pin is the way to go but make sure you set it at a medium yardage and know exactly where it is or you will forget in the excitement of the shot. Take a breath and make sure the pin is set for the proper yardage. Practice , practice, practice until setting the pin is automatic.

God bless, Steve

From: LINK
05-Jan-18
Sage I guess you haven’t seen any of the new muzzle loaders shooting 500-600 yards. Guys are killing elk and deer at 500.

From: ELKMAN
05-Jan-18
I have a life, and no definitely not...

From: JusPassin
05-Jan-18
If I wanted to shoot an animal at 80 yards or more I'd still gun hunt. Shooting animals with a gun at 600 yards goes beyond fair chase principles. Best thing that could happen is the banning of optical sights on ALL weapons for sport hunting. Long range shooting is fine in Afghanistan, but not for non subsistence/survival taking of game.

From: Glunker
05-Jan-18
Fair chase is a legitimate issue with long shot with archery and firearms, as is ethics. I do not have an answer but it should evolve over time.

From: Muskrat
05-Jan-18
Read them and haven't changed my mind, 88 yard shots when sport hunting are just fine .......with a rifle.

From: trophyhill
20-Jan-18
Haven't read them all and I haven't changed my mind. Congrats on killing a fine animal! BTW, in case you haven't noticed? Nothing will change an anti hunters mind short of convincing them to try some of your best cooking. ;)

From: Matt
20-Jan-18
DL hit on it above. The folks some put on a pedestal miss and wound, let's not pretend otherwise. I was talking to a guide just last night who hunted with one of the big names above. The hunter killed with him at long distance, but also missed at a shorter distance earlier in the hunt.

If you flipped it around and asked the same people who defend the behavior - now armed with the knowledge Hunter XYZ has just missed a 60 yard shot - if they would wholeheartedly support him taking an 88 yard shot, I wonder if their perspective would change?

From: trophyhill
20-Jan-18
Matt, no disrespect towards anyone here but......my money says not one guy here who has hunted long enough, hasn't hit and wounded or not recovered an animal. For those who have not had this happen, don't think it can't. It will....

From: Bowriter
20-Jan-18
As usual, I'm different. I haven't read any of them, haven't seen the blog and changed my mind about what I'm fixing for supper.

From: splitlimb13
20-Jan-18
LMAO!!! GF WILL CONSIDER WIPING OUT ARCHERY SEASON!!!!!! That's the funniest post yet!! Look ...YES AND NO IS MY ANSWER!!! I have a 15 year old that has arrowed elk at 60 yards . This topic is exhausting and hilarious at the same time. I know a good percentage of the posters are hard core white tail hunters who are used to thick woods and tree stands and feeders and ground blinds ,and few are westerners who hopefully have experienced chasing mature mule deer on PUBLIC LAND . I've said it before and I'll say it again it's a personal decision and always will be . I myself am very comfortable at 50-60 yards, some might say it may be like some other people being comfortable at 20 -30. I've taken animals from 8 yards to 90 yards. I'm not gonna sit here and say I'm the world best shot ,I'm better than others bla bla bla. Being from the west and knowing my reality of situations that may come up in the field we practice a ton at further ranges. For the record because I know where this is going . The animals at further distances are more comfortable, and if not , it's up to the shooter to be responsible and make the right decision.

From: trophyhill
20-Jan-18
This is a great post^^^^^^^^

From: Bou'bound
21-Jan-18
It is a close range sport overall. I'l bet at least 80% of all big game taken in the US annually are whitetail deer and 95% of those are out of trees at "close range". Yes there are some species and some areas where a small (relatively) number of animals are shot at "beyond tree stand distance", but it is a drop in the bucket when speaking about "the sport of Bowhunting" as a whole.

even with that said Lee was OK as one's effective range is normally calculated by the following formula:

take the hunters age divided by years experience (with bow) which gives a ratio and that ratio is then multiplied by the cost of the hunt (in this case $24,500). that amount is then divided by the grain weight of ones' arrows which in Lee's case is 490 grains. the product of that calculus is increased by the % let off of the hunters first bow (in this case Lee's first bow had a left off of 50%) See the calculations below:

in Lee's case

49 years old / 38 years hunting = 1.289 age to experience ratio

1.289 x the cost of the hunt at $24,500 = 31,380

31,380 / 490 grains = 64 yards

Add back 50% for the % let off of his first bow and you have an effective laksosky range of 96 yards (derived by the formula 64 x 1.50 = 96).

So it is clear he was within his effective range by 8 yards when he shot at only 88.

From: Ambush
21-Jan-18
"You can argue with me but you can't argue with math". Bou' has scientifically settled the Lee's Shot debate.

As for me, I have gained enough experience that I'm completely capable of making a bad shot at any range. No need to angst about distances, for me : )

From: PECO
21-Jan-18
Clearly, Lee's effective range is far less than 88 yards. When one misses by 4 feet, that means they have an 8 foot group. Argue with that math. He missed by mile.

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