Mathews Inc.
Wyoming Donate a License Program
Wild Sheep
Contributors to this thread:
DuggaBoy 17-Jan-18
wyobullshooter 17-Jan-18
Bowboy 17-Jan-18
LKH 17-Jan-18
pa bowhunter 17-Jan-18
midwest 17-Jan-18
mathewshooter 17-Jan-18
IdyllwildArcher 17-Jan-18
Leatherneckgrandpa 18-Jan-18
Trial153 18-Jan-18
Deertick 18-Jan-18
Nick Muche 18-Jan-18
Trial153 18-Jan-18
Treeline 18-Jan-18
DuggaBoy 18-Jan-18
wyobullshooter 18-Jan-18
Treeline 18-Jan-18
Treeline 18-Jan-18
bowbender77 18-Jan-18
LKH 18-Jan-18
Treeline 18-Jan-18
IdyllwildArcher 18-Jan-18
Mule Power 21-Jan-18
From: DuggaBoy
17-Jan-18
I'm going to go ahead and clear the air and say that I am very patriotic and support our troops and this country. I have many family members who have fought and even died protecting our freedom. My hat is off to these people.

I saw a sheep article on this program and initially thought it was a neat idea. However, the more I think about it, I believe there are unintended consequences that will enable the point creep to become more of an issue. Sure, an elk, deer, or pronghorn is one thing but to be allowing a tag to be taken from the pool that many of us have been building for decades is kind of wrong. Hear me out, please.

As we get to the point where some people are getting drawn nowadays, they cannot physically do the hunt. They may start their training and realize they are in too deep physically. Instead of turning a tag in for the next applicant or possibly just leaving the points on the table and stopping the application process altogether, they may go this route out of the goodness of their hearts. Nothing wrong with that at all and good on them. However, that's one more tag taken from a very small pool and may push more hunts out of reach for the rest of the loyal applicants for years.

I think there are plenty of great hunts out there for our disabled veterans but I feel as though some of these once-in-a-lifetime permits need to be omitted from this otherwise great program.

This is not a debate free thread, so your thoughts?

17-Jan-18
There are specific requirements that must be met in order to qualify for the Donate Your License Program. That license is going to be "taken from the pool" whether it's used by the person who drew it, or the person they donate it to.

Since you asked, my thought's are that your thoughts are pretty damned selfish and self-serving.

From: Bowboy
17-Jan-18
Wyobullshooter X2.

From: LKH
17-Jan-18
I served 26 years and for many of those, real hunting was not an option. That said, I never suffered what many of our vets have. The estimate is that 300,000 may be suffering from brain injuries that will only show over time.

Modern helicopter rescue and some of the finest medical care in existence has allowed many more to survive with severe crippling.

It seems that a tag going out of the pool is a pretty damn small compensation from those, including me, who have not suffered life changing injury.

Larry Hardwig, LCDR USN Ret

From: pa bowhunter
17-Jan-18
LKH, thank you!

Mike.

From: midwest
17-Jan-18
I think it sounds like a great program.

17-Jan-18
I think it’s a great program also! Thanks to all who served so that we can have the freedom to draw tags and hunt!!

17-Jan-18
Duggaboy, I commend you for having the balls to stick your neck out for your opinion, but I don't agree. I think giving a sheep tag to a vet is a straight up class act and if it hurts point creep some, the price payed by those of us who haven't served is far less than our vets. I doubt you'll get many people who agree with you to stick their neck out and agree with you in public.

X2 mathewshooter - thanks to all the vets who served so that we can have the life we do where recreational hunting is even a possibility.

18-Jan-18
Yes, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. And you say you have family members who have served. Fine. However, it is obvious you have never worn the uniform.

I spent about 12 years working closely with an organization that caters to the disabled and handicapped sportsmen, vets and non-vets. Finally got burned out. Hard on the head and heart. I came away with one lasting thought which I still hold to today: If I were King, no hunter or fisherman would be allowed to buy a license till that guy/gal had spent at least one day doing what I had done, seeing what I had seen.

Dennis in Colorado, USMC 67-71 father to 2 Marines, grandfather to 5 Marines ( now 4, cause one died last Feb. by his own hand,) uncle to 2 more.

From: Trial153
18-Jan-18
Can someone clarify this for me. The tag is being draw by the applicant? Then the applicant decides to donate the tag? Or is a tag being set aside for non applicants ( veterans ) and not being drawn through the normal channels and applicants?

From: Deertick
18-Jan-18
I can kind of see the point, which is that the high-points applicants somehow "own" the tag, and can donate it to non-high-points hunters who they feel are worthy, and this postpones the natural "end of point creep" from the age of disability to the age of death, and that perpetuates point creep.

There are many worthy candidates for donation (wounded warriors, make-a-wish patients, etc.) and they are, unfortunately, and endless pool.

That said, I doubt that this is -- volume-wise -- a major issue in point creep. For every old crippled hunter who draws a tag and donates it to someone else, there are many more who draw it, realize they can't go, and just plain don't use it. The donation plan is not well-known enough to be a major issue.

The donation plan, on a limited basis, sure gives us all a good feeling, too, and somehow reassures us that we're good people and that the soldier or Marine with no legs has somehow been acknowledged.

What the OP is asking, I think, is how should we limit these acknowledgments? After all, we could just donate ALL of the tags to worthy hunters instead of regular applicants. There are, quite unfortunately, that many (and many more) soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines who have "paid-up".

I don't think the OP was off-base to ask, but I also don't think it is a major issue in point creep.

It would be nice if those high-point applicants who can't personally use the tag could somehow find an exit from the point-creep trail before it got to this, perhaps by transferring points for one species to another, or by purchasing a lifetime permit for a grandchild or something. Donation is another noble choice for them, but if that is noble, how about some other choices for them? Let's provide them lots of different ways out of the pool.

From: Nick Muche
18-Jan-18
If they can figure out how to get a disabled veteran who is in a wheelchair a sheep, I am all for it! That would be incredible!

Wyoming Statute 23-1-705 (k) authorizes the holder of any valid big game license may surrender said license to the department for reissuance to a veteran with disabilities or a permanently disabled person who uses a wheelchair as established by commission rule and regulation selected and sponsored by a nonprofit charitable organization providing hunting opportunities for disabled veterans or persons with permanent disabilities who use wheelchairs.

From: Trial153
18-Jan-18
If that’s the case nick. I say more power to them. If an individual is choosing to make the donation then I am good with it. I am not for the additional tags or allocation of a portion of existing tags to it, no matter how worthy the cause maybe. On an individual level for sure .

From: Treeline
18-Jan-18
This can not impact point creep. Guy draws a tag that took 20 years and donates it. The points are out of the system at that point. With all the money and dedication to get that tag over the years, a guy should have the right to donate it to a good cause.

I cannot think of a better cause than having the option to get that tag in the hands of a wounded veteran. If you draw the tag and for what ever reason you can't use it (work, health, decide not to go, etc), it would be awesome to be able to get it to one of our wounded veterans!

Thank you to all the veterans and families of those who have served to keep our American way of life!

From: DuggaBoy
18-Jan-18
"However, it is obvious you have never worn the uniform."--I never claimed to and appreciate your service and well as everyone else who has served on this thread.

Nick, I read that statute before posting. The former soldier in the article hunted sheep with Colby Gines. I've met Colby and he's a solid guy. Wheelchairs and sheep hunts don't go hand-in-hand but they indeed did a sheep hunt through this program.

Treeline, what about the guy who is next in line who is also at 20 points and now gets pushed back a couple more years because the tag didn't get turned back in? During this time, he has his knees replaced and now he's screwed. As I said, these are the intended consequences of an otherwise great program.

18-Jan-18
Treeline...exactly. This program does not impact point creep in any way, form, or fashion. This program does not create additional licenses, nor are there any licenses allocated from existing licenses. Neither is the program designed so someone can simply donate a license to their buddy. As Nick's post points out, any individual that is the recipient of a donated license must be selected and sponsored by a nonprofit charitable organization, such as Wounded Warriors.

Anyone that has a valid license can donate said license, regardless of species, and whether that license came from a special draw, regular draw, limited quota, preference point or random, general, or acquired through a lottery or auction, including Governor's and Commissioner's licenses.

"Treeline, what about the guy who is next in line who is also at 20 points and now gets pushed back a couple more years because the tag didn't get turned back in?"

It appears that you "support our troops" as long as that support doesn't include something that could even remotely benefit you.

From: Treeline
18-Jan-18
Dugga, you have a screw loose.

This program actually encourages me to put in to draw in Wyoming. I have 18 sheep points, 11 elk, 11 antelope, and 10 deer points.

If something happens that I can not make the hunt (for me most likely work related), I would gladly get my tag to a disabled veteran and hope that he or she had a fabulous, once in a lifetime experience! Heck, I would be more excited for them to get a trophy animal than I would be for myself! It would be awesome to be able to give just a little bit back to those that have given so much for all of us!

From: Treeline
18-Jan-18
The only reason you, I or anyone else have any of these fabulous opportunities is because of the sacrifices of the men and women who have fought, bled and died for this country.

This does not push anyone back in any way and has no impact on the mathematics of the draw.

From: bowbender77
18-Jan-18
As a nonresident of Wyoming, with a Deer tag that I was unable to use two years ago, I was able to donate my tag to the disabled veteran program. I can tell you firsthand that donating that tag felt pretty darn good when I reflected on the outcome.

From: LKH
18-Jan-18
Bowbender77,

Thanks

From: Treeline
18-Jan-18
Absolutely! Thanks, Bowbender!

18-Jan-18
Duggaboy, there are three things that you cannot accomplish in changing law: 1 is decreasing penalties on child molesters. 2 is lessening drunken driving penalties. The 3rd is limiting benefits to veterans. The reason: No one wants those three things to happen except for a few and their arguments are untenable.

From: Mule Power
21-Jan-18
If it weren’t for the potential recipients of those tags you may be either dead or living in a cummunist world without the privilege to hunt a rabbit let alone a sheep. You might be making $5 a week and hunting for fresh water instead of a wall hanger.

Thanks from the bottom of my heart to those who have fought to preserve a lifestyle that some take for granted.

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