Mule Power,,,,,, when Wisconsin had a season, the DNR was very stingy with tags, that cost 100.00 to apply for,,,, yes I agree trapping is good way to get them, however, dog hunting is a killer way to go,,,,,, one area in nw wis, 53 tags were filled very quickly running dogs on them................... the season went so quick, it was obvious they underestimate the population....... I think our state, should have a goal of 100 and that is it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
when them bunny thumpers out of Boulder start to get them wolves going, the ranchers are going to suffer,,,,,
right now in Wisconsin, out of committee and into the House, is a bill to stop the states wolf mgt program, and no state law enforcement can take any action, on wolves being killed,,,, they are going to turn it over to the feds..............
The ultimate Hunter, and beautiful, a little respect for the game we hunt. No doubt they numbers need to be kept in check with trapping and hunting but the out and out hatred is sad by guys who call themselves sportsman, Just saying.
I spend a good amount of time in northern Wisconsin, and they have wolf issues. I know what they are capable of doing. However, it's sad that so called sportsman hate with a vengence an animal that was born to be a top predator and doing what it's programmed to do. Hate the folks who won't allow the wolves to be controlled, not the wolf. Admire the wolf for what he is,an incredibly smart , cunning Hunter who is doing what he does to survive. I am all for them being hunted and trapped, just wish the attitude would change.
I have the hardest time understanding a “hunter” that doesn’t see lower 48 wolves for what they are. Their intent is to replace the human hunter. It isn’t the wolf’s fault. And no one here hates the wolf. But, it becomes easier if it’s poyrayed that way I quess. And, makes me wander just how much of a Hunter you really are.
WV, you should read the comments on here and past post and maybe you'll understand the hatred out there. As far as being a Hunter, I hunted on average 3 times a week from October to Jan, I guess I'm a part time Hunter, unlike you. Let's face it, the hatred is born from the competition for game the guys hunt, elk & deer and I understand the damage wolves cause. Comments like " we don't need wolves in the lower 48 in 2018" is just flat out wrong and gives an opening for the antis to comeback and say we don't need hunting in the lower 48 in 2018.
And there is a lot more folks that would be happy to see elk and deer eradicated from the lower 48 as well for their own agendas. Just think of the insurance savings, the reduction of environmental red tape where mining and development is concerned , reduction in ag losses and on and on and on.............
Sure, there are those that believe, and want, wolves to end hunting but those are mostly 'lunatic fringers', those of us not disconnected from the natural world realize that human hunters are as natural as the wolf and an essential part of our world.
I lived and outfitted in the middle of some serious wolf populations. I can’t count the number of times clients and other people would say to me “Man I bet you hate those bastards huh!”
I’d say no not really. A wolf doesn’t get ready to go out hunting for food and say “Ok boys let’s go screw Joe that a-hole” Hate is a human emotion. A wolf is just being a wolf. Making a living and providing for his or her family like anyone other hunter or farmer.
The other half of my answer was that I’d really like to see an open season on the anti hunters and politicians who used wolves as a means of undermining hunting. They have done it with a total disregard for the other native species that have been decimated by their hell bent goal of seeing human hunters become extinct. If you want to hate then hate them!
I don’t think people put enough thought into where they direct their hatred. If they did they wouldn’t make their feelings toward an animal that does the same thing we do so personal.
I have never once said the words “Kill them all” But wolves are difficult to manage and they are an extremely skilled predator so their numbers do need to be kept relatively low to avoid them getting out of hand.
I’ve killed wolves but when I walked up on them it was no different than walking up on a dead bull. Yes I was happy that I achieved my goal. But I respect all animals and didn’t kick it or jump for joy because I took the life of an animal that didn’t deserve to live. Killing with hatred isn’t Game management. There’s no room for hate in hunting.
My livelihood was drastically affected by wolves so if anyone should “hate those bastards” it would be me. I just don’t see it that way though. My 2 cents.
This is my take on wolves,,,, I love to trap them, no doubt they are a real challenge,,, easy to trap the pups,,,,,,, I like wild things in wild country, without it, you do not have it, BUT you need reasonable management of the predators, and not just feel good issue of tags,,,,,, real science not political science.................................
The UP is not Disney land, and people do not talk with the animals,,,,,,,
MN has more wolves than any other state below the Canadian border - period!
To put this in perspective - According to Bugle Magazine, MN has more wolves than Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho COMBINED.
I don't hate the wolves, but they sure have decimated the deer in my area!.... Where I used to see 15 deer almost every evening on the field behind my house, I now consider it a pretty good afternoon if I see even 3. ...
I don't care to see them completely eradicated ..... but IMHO depleting to about 20% of where they are now would be about right.
LBshooter, I'm right there with you. Wolves have every much a place in the lower 48 as elk or eagles. If given the chance to hunt an area with or without wolves, I'll choose the area with wolves almost every time. I love sharing the woods with them.
Anyone who thinks wolves were reintroduced as an anti-hunting tool needs to get themselves a new tinfoil hat.
That said, they need to be managed on a state level.
Well said, Mule Power! You hit the nail squarely on the head....hate the anti-hunters and politicians who are doing this. I think releasing a few live trapped wolves in their gated communities would probably change their minds on the need to manage them properly.
Yup, agree with MP. Hunt them like any other predator, control them, hunt them like coyotes, but treat them like any other wildlife species in nature. An imaginary boundary of 'the lower 48' means nothing to me. They are just another wild animal here in the US. I'd shoot as many as the law allows, same as fox, coyote, whatever. When I see one where I can, I will.
I think hunters who actually "hate" wolves are a minority. Most I know don't blame wolves for being wolves but since wolves without politics isn't a possibility, they opt for the best option at the moment which is no wolves. Wolves aren't like eagles or black footed ferrets, they can't go unchecked for years waiting on litigation. They are a top predator that has big effects on the rest of the management system.
The West is forever changed. The giant, untouched and connected ecosystems that allow species to bounce back from big regional die offs are gone. Human population, fences, highways, agriculture, etc result in the need to manage wildlife if sustained populations are the goal.
There were 60 million bison as a prey base when wolves lived unmanaged by man.
They need to be controlled. I must say it is natural to dislike the competition. Ever see what happens when a wolf has the ability to get a hold of a coyote? Don't tell me these wolves needed to eat, they just made a kill. Getting rid of the competition is a natural instinct. For us as hunters, that's the wolves and the coyotes. Only difference is we're smart enough to know that limits can be placed, and we're also the only predator on the planet that manages the prey species. When our favorite prey is diminished, and we covet them, it's natural to dislike those that are still killing a depleted animal that we are trying to ""Save"" be that a poacher, wolf or coyote. I don't think as hunters it is ""Unnatural"" to dislike the wolf of coyote.
Well said Mule, NoWiser and LB. I also pick areas that have wolves as they seem to affect the people population more than the game population. Given the choice, I will pick less people every time.
Not sure where Inshart lives/hunts in MN, but I have lived or hunted almost all of the last 35 years in far north MN. The numbers of deer this last fall was really good because we had 3 years of easy winters. Wolves take their 10% (to survive), but that leaves me the 90% to see/kill.
MN is also probably the only place in the US that has hit an equilibrium on wolf population. We have 2000 to 3500 wolves that seem to be cyclic - dependent on the deer population (which is primarily dependent on the winter severity + human kill - primarily rifle). The wolves don't grow much beyond 3500 because they then encroach on other wolf packs. I can certainly see why an area that had very few wolves would see a negative impact when large numbers came in, but MN has had them all along.
I also picked the Lolo area of ID this past fall for the same reason that I hunt in the BWCA. We got our 2 elk and we seemed to have about a 20 mile x 6 mile chunk of mountains to ourselves (from other humans, that is). Lots of elk - along with wolf, bear and lions.
Another bonus for wolves in your area - they decimate the coyote population.
Almost every valley in Colorado has ranches and surrounding the ranches is winter ground for elk and deer. So wolves will go for the easiest meal, cattle. Where there are "sick!" deer herds are in major cities. DOW did a study in boulder %80 + of the deer tested positive for CWD. Put the wolves there.
Colorado Springs has hired snipes to cull the deer populations. Put the wolves there.
Evergreen colorado has resident elk herds that live in the neighbor hoods. Right on the golf courses, the grounds crew will be shoveling and mopping up blood and remains from the courses. Put the wolves there.
Rocky mountain National park lots of elk, they live in Estes park, a town. Put the wolves there. Im sure the wolves will respect the Park boundaries and stay in the the park.
2004 a collared wolf was killed on I-70 a major highway when practically no wolves were in colorado????
Wolves are already in colorado and in established numbers. Falsely introducing more wolves so they can get killed on the highway, shot by ranchers, shot by hunters. If some one really cared about wolves they would not put wolves into a meat grinder here in colorado and those people have no respect for them at all.
The lady that spoke in steamboat has a house around aspen, she lives there 2 months a year. Not one rancher wants wolves in colorado. She wants to bring in a problem, let it loose and then leave all the working people to clean up her shit storm!
People in the front range want wolves, they drive up I-70 for the weekend and recreate in the mountains. "Ohh I heard a wolf!" It doesn't impact the front-rangers, but people living in the mountain towns and they're pocket book and lifestyle!! CPW officers cant even handle all the bear complaints in aspen and carbondale???
There is no room for a reintroduction of Wolves in COLORADO.
That might be the only time in history I was rooting for a coyote to come out on top. :^)
Those mean ole nasty wolves. I don't get all the hate they express. I just don't get it. Why do wolves hate the coyote for being a Coyote? I never will understand why they had to kill that poor ole coyote. He was just being a coyote. Why?
Yeah, I agree that sounds about as dumb as some of the responses on this post. Some of you guys might want to learn to read and comprehend before you start preaching about the way other people feel.
Inshart, I'd be delighted to see 3 deer a day----and I don't even have wolves! Anyway, I'm glad to read all the comments from those of you who appreciate wolves being wolves; although managed control is needed. To those of you here who advocate the elimination of wolves (and probably grizzly bears, eagles, etc.) it makes me wonder if you ever went to school or took a basic ecology course.
i love how the wolf helped our moose hunting they used to give out tags in all our area now we are down to on area left. and its moose population is almost gone I imagine that they will pull those tags in a year or two. there is no controlling the wolf population with out certain methods that I wont mention here. we have been hunting and trapping for years and there are new packs every year its almost impossible to keep them knocked down. that is a joke only the lack of prey will keep them down.
If any of you think that any State or Federal agency will effectively manage wolves, once introduced, your dreamin,....period. Just look at what's happened in the states surrounding Yellowstone after the introduction of arctic wolves. That's not even addressing the problem of increasing Grizzly populations, and the meager attempt at their "management", or in CA, the crazy issue with Mountain Lions. Where I live, in the Santa Cruz mountains, everyone is seeing Lions in our driveways, backyards, and decks. There have even be people that have had them take pets from their bedroom while sleeping. I could go on and on. Will there ever be a season,---NO!
In this political environment, there will never be effective management of predators. Goal oriented, wildlife management directed by populations studies doesn't matter anymore. Disney does.
I am against any "reintroduction" of predators because I have completely lost any faith that they will be effectively managed.
There's even a movement in CA to reintroduce the Grizzly; how F,,,ing stupit is that!
I agree with Dooner, people support reintroductions only because the wolves are charismatic megafauna. They have no idea how this will impact the state, especially financially. what is the point of bringing them back?
I can not post here, after reading so many dumb posts, I mean some of you guys are delusional,,,,, its obvious you do not deal with or live with wolves, or own stock and deal with the federal guys and gals,,,,,,,,, You may get some wolves naturally, they came and go,,, but if you set out to reintroduce a population in ranch country, your looking for a lot of trouble,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
mule hunter they are not timber wolves anyone who believe that is dreaming you people from out of area come hunt where there is a population on game animals left and say wow the hunting is great what a load of crap
come hunt moose in north Idaho panhandle then tell me what you think after a month of hunting, that's if there are any tags left while your at it get a elk tag for September happy hunting. I guarantee you will have a lot of peace and quite with yourself and the wolves
the wolves here are a northwestern wolf ranging from Canada down to Yellowstone the wolves back east are a eastern wolf there is about a 40 pound weight difference between the to, totally different animals.
If they aren't timber wolves, exactly what species are they?
I've found that lazy hunters love to hate wolves. When the alarm goes off and it's windy and snowing it is way easier for them to justify sleeping in when they have convinced themselves that the wolves have eaten all the deer/elk anyways. It also gives them a reason to go to the bar at night so they can b!#&* to all the other hunters about how the wolves have ruined everything.
Meanwhile, the hunters that work their tails off still manage to put meat in the freezer and have a good hunt. They typically keep their mouths shut because it's nice having the woods to themselves and the wolves.
ive killed 17 bull elk in a row with my bow I did not do it in the bar I don't drink they are a northwestern wolf do the research nowiser you are not to wise you sit there and preach and are not informed use the internet if you have to. you have no idea who I am I hunt hard and have earned every moose and elk you are a idiot with a big mouth whom I hope to meet some day
It's my understanding that the wolves introduced into Yellowstone were trapped in Canada, and they had evolved to be adept at running down Caribou. Call these wolves what you want; they weren't native! When these non-native species were introduced, the first thing they did was kill off the remaining, endangered, red wolves. Then they decimated the elk, deer, and moose populations. Oh, ...but they made the river-willow ecology better; LOL, what a freakin joke!! I remember that when the Russians, and Canadians, were consulted regarding the introduction, their advice was "don't do it; you'll never be able to control it. It they wanted to do something "natural", it would have been better to find a way to support the native wolf populations.
dooner you are spot on the fish and wild life service crammed it down our throats with almost no thought to the out come, those that think the wolf can be managed are crazy we have been trying, when the big prey animals are gone the packs move on, it is better now the packs are smaller say 10 and under but that is due to a lack of prey to eat, not the trapping or hunting. I cant wait for the north Idaho beaver to really start thriving and the dicky birds
The wolves in the west are Gray Wolves. Just like the one’s in the Midwest. Sure they came from Canada but there still a gray wolf. They are not an artic gray wolf. Another name for a gray wolf is timber wolf for those that don’t know.
Earlier I said wolves don’t benefit anyone. That probably wasn’t the right way to say it however it was said. I don’t hate wolves just like I don’t hate coyotes. I actually respect them. I still don’t think we should have any in the lower 48. There is way to much politics involved with wolves in today’s age. We were burned the first time on wolf reintroduction. I don’t see how we can trust a reintroduction a second time.
This past September I hunted for the first time in wolf country. Sure I killed my bull. I didn’t see a lot of elk and can only 1 time think of wolves affecting my hunt. However I don’t know how much the wolves have affected the elk populations. Of the 14 days I was in camp I can only think of a night or two I didn’t hear the wolves howl. Surprisingly I heard coyotes every night.
saying I sit in a bar and complain because im lazy and cant hunt without knowing me is idiotic. how much does a wolf back east weight I have weighted ours. a big male will be 110 -125 pounds and a big female will be 98-100 juveniles are about 70 pounds. from those that have trapped or killed one back east what do they weight actually, not what the computer says. I can assure you if you had grown up in the northwest and had seen first hand what they have done and still defend them then I respect your opinion but when someone comes here every now and then to hunt and tells us that its all fine then no I don't respect there opinion
N Idaho can call me an idiot all he wants, it certainly doesn't hurt my feelings. My post wasn't about him at all, just about many hunters I've observed in my 20+ years hunting wolf country. It sounds like he's got things figured out when it comes to elk hunting. It also sounds like there is no lack of elk where he hunts.
All I want to know is what kind of wolves are in MT, ID, and WY and what kind used to be? You can come up with all the different types of names you want (arctic, timber, Canadian, gray, etc...) but, as far as I know, they are all Canis Lupus and I think they'd all have the same affect on big game populations. My opinion is that it's BS. Would it have been better if they reintroduced Mexican Gray Wolves? Because many people I met while hunting down in the Gila sure seemed to complain about all of the damage they do to the elk, and I guarantee they are smaller than any wolf native to Yellowstone. I also saw herds of elk numbering in the hundreds in the same areas the wolves "decimated" the population.
I should also reiterate that I am 100% for state management of wolves, including liberal hunting seasons where there are healthy populations. I've got a full body mount of a big male I shot in Minnesota back in 2012 when they were (briefly) delisted in our state.
FYI the wolf I killed was 121 pounds weighed on a certified scale. I had to carry him 1-1/2 miles back to the truck on a pack frame as MN required the ENTIRE wolf to be checked in, internal organs and all.
One again, Idaho, my post was NOT about you and I apologize if it came across that way.
Gray wolves,,,BS........maybe out west, but I can but I can assure you the Great Lakes have large Canadian timber wolves, that they refuse to do a dna test on the ones, that were harvested, when a hunt was allowed
Biggest problem is hunters who have this "hate" towards wolves think it's funny to go to pages like Yellowstone National Park and spew the stuff posted above and come off as complete idiots.
Never going to come off as educated if you don't address issues with some level of thought and compromise.
Arguing about wolves now is like arguing about paying taxes - not going to do any good about it. So how do we take a tough situation and use it to our advantage?
Idaho has done the best job managing as they are taking about 300 a year. I know some will complain about that but then again those are the guys you can NEVER make happy (ever).
BTW wolves are an issue on big game but it's population encroachment that's hurting most rocky mountain species. When I went to college in the NW most cities were half the size they are now. People building cabins in remote areas where you would only see few people.
“However, it's sad that so called sportsman hate with a vengence an animal that was born to be a top predator and doing what it's programmed to do.”
With all do respect, the top predator has been replaced by a more controllable predator that’s willing to pay the price of admission. We only need wolves and grizzlies in numbers enough to prolong the species and give tourists a look at nature pre human.
After all is said and done, like them or not, they are here. All we can hope for is that the Feds will allow states to regulate and control their numbers. We don't need wolves reintroduced, they are doing it on their own. We need to contact our legislators about giving states population regulation and control which will require them being removed from the endangered species list.
I can't think of one logical reason to reintroduce the wolf back into the lower 48. It's just stupid people making stupid decisions based on stupid emotion, or other stupid, illogical, political reasons. Nobody wins from the wolf coming back, certainly not the wolf or the animals they prey on.
I am greedy. I liked seeing moose and hunting them. A lot harder now. Man a moose calf has no chance. I heard it went from several thousand to less than 200 around the park and in?? Doesn't the federal goverment have some plan for when they are completley eliminated. I mean cmon man... now for another whiskey..... peace..
More wolves = less game. I love every time I explain why Alaska has predator control zones to non hunters. Luckily most neutral people I interact with get why predators need controlled when using logic. They just don't want to personally see it.
Wolf introduction and no control makes perfect sense. The more predation, the less prey. Hunting is the only management tool where the predator, us, can be controlled. Destroy the prey population and hunting is gone as a management tool. Antis truly believe that we do not belong in the woods, unless we are simply observing. They don't care that nature is a tremendous leveler albeit brutal with many species ultimately extinct. Natural selection. Without sportsman dollars, ultimate disaster.
You guys that have wolves in your areas can take care of this. It is no crime to break unjust laws. Start doing the right thing even if it hurts. Eventually people start to wake up and the tide gets turned. We just need some brave men to step out and get the momentum going. Don’t be afraid.
what is the method for a brave man to take care of the job? trapping seems to be the most effective but it is not enough I believe it would have to be other methods and you would kill all meat eaters and probably peoples pets. nowiser ease up
Wolves were reintroduced to Wisconsin, under the guidance of the state and Federal Government..... When the wolf was put under protection, no problem, let nature take its course, as wolves came thru from Mn and Ontario, they would come and go, never having a large imprint on the environment,,,,,,,,The state set a goal of 350,,,,,, oh yes where was the mgt plan?
Within a few years, we were over that goal,,,, huh,,,,, wolves multiply but they are not mice...... They denied they brought any pairs in,,,,,, The trappers that brought down pairs from Ontario, said, "are you guys crazy",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
You guys wait, they are going to bring them in to Colorado, they are going to bump that population,,,,,
Wisconsin did it, for deer control in my opinion, they wanted that northern herd nocked down, so they did that, and along with cheap tags, and a few bad winters they got their wish, and destroyed a million dollar business for the locals,,,,,, N Wis is a ghost town, from what it was during deer season
I'm 100% in favor of hunting and trapping wolves, but I will absolutely turn in anyone that kills one illegally without a second thought. If I hear rumors of it I will tip off the game warden. I like to think that a lot of "tough guys" just like to talk big online. Unfortunately, threads like this will be used by anti-hunting organizations to "prove" that hunters are out to eliminate wolves, furthering their need for protection.
CWD is a much larger threat to hunting than wolves. We may, in fact, find wolves are our allies in the future by killing diseased deer/elk/moose before they can spread it further.
Joe - Like ground hunter said. The goal that was set was 350 wolves. According to the DNR, there are better than 880 now. Of course, there are plenty of reasons to suspect that their number is low.
A couple of years ago, this picture was floating around. It is purportedly Flag Rd in Bayfield County. At the time, the Flag River pack supposedly had five wolves. I'm not a biologist, but if the information is correct, it appears that these tracks may very well have been made by more than five wolves. There are videos of other packs with three times the reported numbers.
Also, it wasn't that long ago that the DNR radically altered the official number of bear in WI. They had dramatically undercounted them.
Rod Coronado, the ALF activist that has been funded by PeTA and has done prison time for his arsons... and describes how to make Molotov Cocktails and other incendiary devices during seminars for eco-terrorists, is now spending a lot of time in WI. His Wolf Patrol group follows hunters and enters bear bait sites to "ensure legality". They are working to perpetuate the moratorium on wolf seasons and are attempting to end bear hunting.
I have no first hand knowledge, but I have heard of bear hunters that have been cited by the DNR for having chicken and other meats in their baits, which is illegal in WI. The hunters have claimed that they had not placed any illegal bait. Now, I would not expect anyone who's a violator to openly admit to putting out illegal bait, but it seems plausible to me that a guy who's capable of arson might be capable of adulterating a bait and calling it in to set up a hunter.
If they start reintroducing larger numbers of wolves into CO, I would suspect that it will follow a similar trajectory. They will state a population goal. They will ignore that goal. They will resist any kind of management. The courts will be used to legislate. There will never be enough wolves for them.
This is an interesting discussion. Mud slinging aside, some decent information is found in some of the links. Perhaps some of the most eye opening for me, so far, came from one particular comment - a reminder of sorts. In 1988, the largest fire in the history of Yellowstone burned almost 800,000 acres of the park - over 1/3 of it. 7 years later, 14 Canadian grey wolves were reintroduced in Yellowstone in 1995. ---" The subspecies native to the Yellowstone was the Northern Rocky Mountains wolf... the species that was reintroduced was the Mackenzie Valley wolf .. both subspecies were similar...". ---- Now it appears that the "wolfers" are trying to give much of the credit for the increase in biodiversity in the park to the reintroduction of a few wolves. That appears to be very much a matter of opinion which favors the "Pro" group. It's obvious, from this thread alone, what happens when people have differences of opinion. Another interesting "tidbit" - "United States Fish and Wildlife Service has restored wolf populations to Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico and Arizona. Colorado is the last holdout. " The Yellowstone wolf reintroduction was the culmination of nearly 20 years of give & take between the pro-wolf & anti wolf folks. Perhaps one of the strongest "anti" arguments is that the entire state of Colorado isn't, and never will be, anything like Yellowstone National Park, as long as humans are involved. A final tidbit - the migratory herd of humans that passed through Yellowstone last year hit a record high - 3.8 MILLION, as of the end of September...
The meeting was a totally one sided show. All pro wolf. No equal time for the opposition. The speaker seemed knowledgeable until he advocated for tying streamers to fencing to deter wolves from accessing livestock. If this is true, I should have been paying attention in my wildlife management class cause this one got by me!
There was a reason they were (nearly) eradicated a hundred years ago. They didn't do it just for the hell of it. They have been totally unnecessary in wildlife management for a 100 years, in fact the recovery of species like elk (spectacular wildlife management success stories) would have been nearly impossible had they still been there. Yet people think there was always an abundance of elk, etc. But that was not the case. (history began yesterday....) It was a great effort to introduce the elk and grow the herds. Good luck with moose recovery under these conditions in wolf populations. Those populations which were recovering are now headed down.... fast.... Might check with some of the AK game managers about moose recovery in high wolf areas. They shoot em from helicopters.....
Everywhere there has been an introduction it has been a mess. (BTW, several various subspecies of wolves were consolidated into one right about when the introductions were taking place, thus the "they are all the same species" reply was born) A mess. No other way to put it. But it is done. Those bearing the brunt of the problem someone else caused for them..... well they can go pound sand.... we don't care......
Guessing if it were your livestock, your livelihood being harmed, if you had to live with them day in and day out.... a person might have a different viewpoint. But it's not. If it doesn't personally effect them, they have no problems. Easy. Out of sight, out of mind. Just a bunch of greedy hunters and ranchers anyway..... sittin' at the bars all the time.....
WY has the right management plan. Shot on sight if outside their management areas. Treat em like yotes. Good luck with that in CO......
Public land is just that, public. It is owned by hunters, nonhunters, etc. Guess which group has the most votes. We found out up here in Northern NH and Maine. The next Democratic administration will continue the rural cleansing and land grabbing policies pushed by Obama. I give hunting by the common man with no land to speak of, 20-30 years. Then the huge nonhunting majority will vote those who will shut down all fed lands.
I agree that there are still elk to be hunted after the wolf did its damage, but what is going to happen when Colorado and Wyoming get there elk herds wiped out? think of all the people looking for some where to hunt where there is still a elk population, its going to get crowded. its happened here where I live, there are still elk but everyone Is hunting the same elk
Man made technology will not shorten big game quotas or seasons in the west. You can thank the wolf for that. Demand for point draw hunts are on the rise. You can thank wolves for that. The costs of hunting in the west is on the rise. You can thank the wolf for that. And, it isn't anywhere near topped out yet. Amazing what has happened in the last 25 years.
I watched a video of some of the wolves being released quite a few years ago. One of the women releasing them said "There goes the end of sports hunting" as she watched the wolves run away. I have since tried finding that video to no avail. I sure wish I could find that video again. It might make some of the dumb bunch, that call themselves hunters, truly understand what this reintroduction will do to hunting before it is over.
there is one good thing that the wolf did here in north Idaho It has made a lot of the local hunters start hunting other places like southern Idaho, Wyoming and Colorado. years past no one would have ever left here to hunt else were. I have always wanted to hunt other places but never would cause I didn't want to miss out on our elk now I am putting in for other tags like sheep goat and out of state elk.
In the UP and N Wis its just being taken care of,,,, only authority who even cares are the feds,,,,, good luck finding one of those around,,,,,,
Streamers on the fences..... why does that not surprise me,,,,,,you can not make that stuff up I am sure,,,,, Colorado, is going to be harder, to ever get them out, once they take hold, sure there are a lot of hunters, but they are not organized......
Heck they do not even like trappers out there, including the hunters,,,, it drove me out
Second that groundhunter on it being "taken care of" in northern and even now mid WI. I grew up in the great north of WI and have seen the herd go to zero except for neighborhoods where the deer are fed. I also saw lots of businesses close up with the decline of hunters as the deer disappeared. I can't remember who posted about "turning anyone in who illegally takes out a wolf" and don't want to waste my time looking for it, but I would love to take him to a bar in northern WI and see if he still talks so tough. It is not legal to bait in northern WI anymore, but every gas station is full of corn to feed the deer in the neighborhoods in the winter. Also pulls the wolves closer for getting "taken care of". I also feel for the western hunters who have seen the drastic decline of elk as CO will as they have a much tougher time "taking care" of the wolves as it is just too big of country with too few hunters/trappers. Hopefully, it will be put back into the hands of more states and we can right the situation.
Well I have heard that before,,,,,,, no disrespect Bou, but you need management,,,,, the UP and N Wis is not Ontario, different worlds......
I should know, spend plenty of time in both areas, and I love Ontario ,,,,,, if you love to track deer and get lost hard to beat Ontario,,,,,,
I want wild things in wild country, BUT you need state mgt in the Great Lakes area,,, maybe you do maybe you do not, but own some live stock, in wolf country, and without control, they have no fear,,,,,
Yes, I agree, our wilderness or at least wild areas deserve to have a population of wolves. There was a time 150 years ago that many people thought the only predators that should be allowed to hunt antelope, deer, bison, elk, etc. were the human predators. They thought there should be no reason to have competition from owls, eagles, fox, wolves, all bears, etc. ---you name it. By golly, big game was put on this earth just for us to make use of. I'm very grateful the grizzly and wolf escaped extinction at the hands of what is supposed to be the wisest predator on earth. I'm glad they're here, but they should be intelligently managed, and I wouldn't mind hunting these big predators myself. One more point my wife always reminds me of when I talk about hunting: our wild lands are not just for us hunters. There are many, many times more people than hunters using our wild lands for reasons like hiking, plant study, bird watching, geology, fishing, camping, photography----hunters are in the minority----and these other groups of land users do want a chance to see our original, natural predators like wolves and grizzlies. When I was a kid the population of the U.S. was like 150,000,000 and now it's somewhere around 325,000,000. What predator population needs the most control?
With whatever respect you're due, that is one of the dumbest and nonscientific-based comments I've read in a long while. Don't tell that to all the grizzlies and wolves that used to inhabit places like Arizona, California, New Mexico, etc., etc.
With all the respect I can muster after reading your second post, I never disagreed that those species do not currently inhabit all the areas they used to. Only, they never have been close nor, will they ever be extinct, for quite some time. I think your misunderstanding that point in your eagerness to spread your version of the perfect scenario.
When life depended upon what crops and meager livestock pioneers had to depend upon to survive and produce bounty, it was important to be discriminate against anything that threatened it. No criticism from a scientific view will change that. No doubt a lot of changes to the ecosystem took place due to their actions. But, as you've pointed out, this isn't 125 years ago. So, its hard to take anyone seriously who suggests current management try and produce those conditions in the current ecosystem.
I'd love it too. But, Missouri is full of house wives and farmers that don't deserve that kind of treatment. Right? That seems to be what this is about. Making sure we have wolves, cougar, and grizzly bears running out our ears as long as it isn't in the wrong backyard. Funny how Science always seems to be the basis people use for their fairy tale when they have zero stake in. Well, science says the wolves would fare much better dining on fat beef, dogs, sheep, and people in the east, under a federal veil of protection, versus wild elk and deer in the west. I think I'm sold on the concept now. I vote Yay on releasing the CANADIAN Timber wolf in every single state of this country.
Dutch Oven, did you have a vasectomy to do your part to preserve more owl, eagle, fox, wolf, and bear habitat?
I'd be satisfied with Illinois and Missouri though if we can't get all the states. One of my eternal dreams is for LBShooter to see one of those beautiful animals in his neck of the woods one day. If he's lucky, it'd be eating his dog instead of one of his kids. Dang it man, Ducth is on to something. We've achieved human Population control with a broader release range. I'm going to have to rethink just how smart you are Dutch. That was some next level thinking there
I would not wish them wolves on anyone,,,,,,, deal with them on a weekly basis, and you may have another opinion,,,,,, all the pro wolf people live in Madison, Boseman or Boulder,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ha
Easy now let’s not get carried away on the wolf release in Missouri, not everyone in Missouri is pro wolf.
Why do I dislike the wolf when it’s just being a wolf and doing what it’s born and bred to do? Same reason I dislike a termite or armadillo - they’re doing what they’re born and bred to do and that’s destroy things of value.
"and these other groups of land users do want a chance to see our original, natural predators like wolves and grizzlies. "
But of course they do. And after watching the "original, natural predators" they travel back to their cushy urban cities hang up their North Face or Patagucci outdoor gear and let those that have to live with the uncontrolled "natural predators" on a daily basis. KInda like the damn crazy cat ladies and their TNR programs.
When you really Break it down the hatred expressed by some of the hunters about wolves is similar to the attitude the anti hunting public has towards hunters. The argument/reasons hunters give for letting predators roam the land is probably the way antis view us, that we kill the deer, elk and moose etc...
WV, Illinois has coyotes running all over the place wasting dogs in the burbs, and grey wolves have been sighted and killed in Illinois, along with a few mountain lions. If you all don't like the wolves in your state your free to move to states that are wolf free.
Disingenuous argument. They were wolf free. Other people from outside added them into the mix, NOT the people who lived there. And again, they aren't doing you thousands of dollars worth of damage, literally the food off your plate.
If I were you I'd be shooting yotes as well. But that's up to you. As it should be. It should be left to the people who have to deal with the mess.
I live in Missouri and have a lot of hunting friends who believe as I do that there should be open season on wolves in the USA. If I lived out west I know I would carry a rifle everywhere and would shoot every wolf I saw. Let the ones who want them introduced take them home with them.
I think everyone has a right to an opinion,,,, but when you give one, I would like to hear, where you live, and what your experience is with the animal,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
LB I do not hate wolves, just want them under mgt,,,,,, this is not 1840 anymore,,,,,, I like the idea of adventure in the wilds, that is why we have wild country,,,,, I have no experience with grizzly bears, do not live in there country, but if they are growing strong,, put some mgt into them, and have a common sense hunting season,,,,,,
I think most do not want them gone, they just want common sense mgt,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I agree 100 percent with management of wolves, no problem with that at all. Grizzlies also need to be kept in check, so if the numbers are getting up there and they are becoming a problem open up a season. TD , when you go out and kill a deer or elk are you not taking food off the wolves table? Just trying to add some balance to the kill them all attitude that a lot of folks out here like dnovo have.
I agree 100 percent with management of wolves, no problem with that at all. Grizzlies also need to be kept in check, so if the numbers are getting up there and they are becoming a problem open up a season. TD , when you go out and kill a deer or elk are you not taking food off the wolves table? Just trying to add some balance to the kill them all attitude that a lot of folks out here like dnovo have.
and that Is the problem you can not legally manage the wolf. you don't just go out and see a wolf every day, hell I have only seen one, they are very leary of people and smart. there is no control of the wolf by legal means. we can hunt them we can snare them and we still cant keep them down. you have to kill over 75 percent of a wolf population to have a effect on them. if it was more open here maybe they could be controlled by hunting, from time to time someone shoots one, I know of a young kid who shot 3 with his bow they were circling him. we have trappers that trap 10-15 a year and they keep repopulating every year, in the same areas. do people poison pocket gophers, termites and other pest, they are just doing what they are made to do. THERE IS NO MANAGING WOLF POPULATIONS................
Every predator tries to eliminate competition. Get a fox in a trap and see what coyotes do. Wolves kill coyotes. The problem with wolves is that they have been introduced to eliminate the one predator that can be controlled by simple regulation, us. Anyone who thinks that wolves will be regulated by the states without countless lawsuits and ultimate herd destruction is dead wrong. Hunting is a management tool. Wolves are meant to make that tool unnecessary. Talk to an honest greenie and they will admit it. If you want the wilderness to be truly wild then leave your modern conveniences, clothing, transportation, and weapons behind when you go into it. People want it to be a wildlife disneyland. We worship predators like wolves and grizzlies but have no compassion for a moose being torn apart, a rat , a mouse, or especially, an unborn child having its brains sucked out at 8 months.
"We worship predators like wolves and grizzlies but have no compassion for a moose being torn apart, a rat , a mouse, or especially, an unborn child having its brains sucked out at 8 months."
I've noticed the same tendency...weird when you think about it..the folks that want you and I to stop eating farm/ag raised meat, want more wolves and bears and lions to eat more wild meat.
I don't want wolves extinct, I want to be able to hunt them. To let them run amok like the Mongol horde and kill everything in their path is foolishness. It's simple math, more humans=less wild area=less apex predators that can exist without putting a major dent in the prey population.
What is frustrating to a lot of hunters is they feel some well intentioned brethren of theirs, DON'T really understand what the left/eco-terrorest are trying to accomplish. That is the outlawing of hunting, on the pretense that " keeping their numbers in check" is no longer a necessity.
That being said, I wish there were more wolves and much fewer humans on this planet, but it is what it is...and I'm not going to stand by and wring my hands talking legal jargon when/if the wolves are taking too much game. If it comes down to only enough game for one of us, it will be me that's hunting.
N-Idaho,,,, I hear what you are saying, but the northern swamps of the Great Lakes make it a lot easier, to get on them wolves, compared to the mountain country, where it is tougher..... Wisconsin has proved it can hammer wolves fast, but when we did have hunts, the allowance was too small,,,,,,,, they were conservative, due to the fact that they did not know how well it would go......
It went real well, and fast,,,,, I agree, you do not see wolves much, but cut loose the dogs, and you can fill some tags quick, it was proven here,,,,, now I doubt in Idaho, due to the environment, it could be done,,,,,,, One glimmer of hope, is that the new wolf guy in Wisconsin, believes that only 350 should be tops of the population,,,,,
At the Milwaukee Sport Show they are going to have a wolf chat, open to the public and bring in the wolf panel,,,, except for our new guy, they will have the true believers, who are now retired, and working on the wolf alliance associations, also on the panel.... They say they are for state control,, but want a larger population status,,,,
I may be wrong, but I think the wolves, take out more deer, and out west more elk, than anyone in authority will admit too
Here in Missouri we’ve got an issue with wild hogs moving up from Arkansas. They ruin forests and farmland. Our department of conservation has taken on the mission of eradicating the wild hogs. (Probably an ancient and outdated philosophy I’m sure). I’m thankful there aren’t out of state pig lovers seeking for us to “manage” the hogs.
I truly feel bad for the guys out west and this whole wolf debacle.
I feel after a whiskey or two.... that central park needs a pack. .... yellowstone is overloaded with them, just makes common sense. I say start i the east where they were first eliminated and start there. There could be a few problem, but hey we can work through it. As the tearfull indian sits upon the mesa watching a racing car throw trash out, and a tear runs down his face. I sit and wonder what he would think of the last apache strong hold." San Carlos" a beautifull shimmer of broken beer bottles shimmering in the setting sun.... peace tjw