Mathews Inc.
IL Deer Hunting - Wave Good Bye.....
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
WhitetailHtr 21-Jan-18
Beendare 21-Jan-18
Don K 21-Jan-18
Thornton 21-Jan-18
Bigbuck38 21-Jan-18
JTV 21-Jan-18
LBshooter 21-Jan-18
Jaquomo 21-Jan-18
LBshooter 21-Jan-18
drycreek 21-Jan-18
Jaquomo 21-Jan-18
WhitetailHtr 21-Jan-18
Jaquomo 21-Jan-18
buckhammer 21-Jan-18
Franklin 21-Jan-18
Bentstick81 21-Jan-18
petedrummond 21-Jan-18
JTV 21-Jan-18
Charlie Rehor 21-Jan-18
ground hunter 21-Jan-18
Inshart 21-Jan-18
bighorn 21-Jan-18
Bowriter 21-Jan-18
Glunt@work 21-Jan-18
bigdog21 21-Jan-18
Annony Mouse 21-Jan-18
XMan 23-Jan-18
orionsbrother 23-Jan-18
elkstabber 23-Jan-18
joehunter 23-Jan-18
stealthycat 23-Jan-18
From: WhitetailHtr
21-Jan-18
After 40 years of deer hunting on private land in one specific county in Northern Illinois - seeing the herd go from pretty marginal in the early 70's to the glory days of the 90's and mid 00's, I can tell you that the best is now gone. And for any county where even one deer is tested positive for CWD - it's gone for good.

CWD supposedly came into the Northern IL counties of by way of Southern WI several years back. As such, each year the IDNR expands its CWD testing, adding additional counties every year. And guess what, each year these new counties find a deer or two that test positive. Here's what that means:

- sharpshooters in "hot"areas. At the gun deer check stations, hunters are asked to point on a map to where they shot their deer. This info accompanies the sample from the animal. (Who is to say that these locations are accurately reported by the hunter? Would you want sharpshooters to annihilate the herd in your township for one positive CWD case?) - unlimited archery antlerless tags -with once was a lottery gun drawing, county specific - all hunters applying in the "lottery" now draw tags, and there are always tags left over which can be purchased over the counter as bonus tags. Nobody gets turned away. Nobody. - additional late winter/CWD seven day gun season in addition to the regular firearm and muzzleloader seasons (split 4 days in late December and 3 days in mid January, with UNLIMITED antlerless gun tags offered over the counter for $5 each. Buy as many as you want, and kill as many antlerless deer as you want. Use your unfilled regular season tags, too. Oh, and about that 2 antlered deer per season regulation, that no longer applies in this seven day season as long as you still have either-sex tags in your possession.

The county I hunt went from consistently being the #5 deer kill county in the state to no longer being mentioned. Deer numbers are WAY down, and the number and quality of bucks is super disappointing. Sure, there will always be big bucks in the county, but unlimited deer kills really take their toll after 4 or 5 years. Deer drives are the most popular method during the late season, and the deer get hammered (fawns, does, shed bucks, racked bucks, you name it). Almost like deer are treated like vermin. Sickening.

So here's the game: each year a couple new counties are added to the fray. Increased license revenue to the IDNR, increased profits to the insurance agencies. Because outside of CWD, deer-car collisions are the concern that establishes the deer population in a given county. And once even one deer is tested positive for CWD, hell is unleashed and that is never going away. Pretty convenient for the DNR and the insurance companies, wouldn't you say?

You see, prions spread CWD. And prions are left in the soil from feces, saliva, or a dead infected deer. Prions are then present - FOREVER - for a deer to pick up. I mentioned this to a biologist at the check station, and he confirmed it. I asked him about all the spinal columns that are tossed in the field after butchering a deer, especially because there is now no transport allowed out of the state. He said that hunters ideally should be burying all body parts under at least 6" of soil. I say, good luck with that, especially when the ground is frozen. So once CWD is detected in a county, it is pretty fair to say that it will be there forever.

That's my rant. I say to all IL hunters, this program is headed to your county in the near future. I would wager that if they set up test stations at every IL county during gun deer season, they would find a CWD positive in each county. The wave of the future, I suppose. But when it arrives at the beloved county that you hunt, be ready for a drastic change in your hunting expectations. Unless you like to buy unlimited tags and shoot every deer that walks. Not looking for debate here, folks, just my observations and beliefs.

From: Beendare
21-Jan-18
Still hope bro.

Science has come along way especially at the Molecular level.

My daughter is doing cancer research for one of her prof's at Stanford and they say they have cures at the molecular level for 30% of the cancers out there right now. Of course it will take a decade minimum to jump through all of the testing hoops....and even if they are too optimistic....point is, they are starting to figure this stuff out in a big way.

They will figure out the prion thing.

From: Don K
21-Jan-18
Yep, I live probably in the county your talking about, have bow hunted here for 37 years and your right on the money..........

From: Thornton
21-Jan-18
I have heard from more than one reliable source familiar with the northern Colorado problem that CWD has ALWAYS been present.

From: Bigbuck38
21-Jan-18
I also hunt in a CWD county and you are 100% correct. The DNR doesn't care and they will continue to ruin what we have here. The DNR uses bait stations to shoot deer over. I guess their bait stations don't spread CWD.

From: JTV
21-Jan-18
while it may have been around, no one up till recent years ever knew about it, we do now and it aint pretty if it ever fully crosses over into humans ... there were some cases/deaths I believe where there were questions if it had ...

From: LBshooter
21-Jan-18
My county that I hunt there was certainly a lower amount of deer sightings this year. I talked with a biologist and he said they were told by the powers that be to decrease the herd size by 14%. Between the insurance industry and the farm industry screaming for a reduction it has happened.

CWD is real and it can be devastating to a herd, and trying to reduce the spread is a good thing. They have some studies according to the biologist I spoke with that it can be spread to humans by consuming infected meat. The draft offers a free testing service for the deer you kill and notify you with the results, nice to have confirmation your not eat/feeding infected meat to family and friends.

Now, I think that fewer deer being around for a couple years will just make it so you have to hunt harder to fill the freezer, fine with me. The upside is some or hopefully a lot of these outfitters who gobble up land and lock out your average resident Hunter is a good thing. I have said for the last few years that Ohio is the next Illinois, and each time I turn on the outdoor shows they're talking about Ohio. Also think baiting , illegal in Illinois but we all know it's ramped, and urines sales should be halted, synthetic only.

From: Jaquomo
21-Jan-18
There has never been a jump to humans in the 50 years since it was discovered. They've even tried to force a jump to natural deer predators with no success. Scientists were recently able to force it in one species of primate, but that species isn't even close to human genetic makeup. I live in the core endemic area where tens of thousands of people have been eating infected deer and elk forever. Whether it made the jump from scrapie to CWD, or whether it always existed, is highly debatable because nobody really knows, but regardless, the incidence of the human variation, CJD-V, is lower in our county than the national average. The "scrapie theory" is simply speculation with no basis in fact. Correlation vs. causation.

Many states are overreacting, as the OP notes. In our area they tried to literally slaughter all the mule deer, then realized the huge mistake because they were likely also killing those with a natural resistance to it. Funny, but the more testing of deer that occurs in different locations, the more they find it. They've found it in Norway and South Korea, too.

Based upon some of the other threads, this whole problem can be blamed on crossbows being allowed in archery season.....

From: LBshooter
21-Jan-18
P.S. When the state feels the lost revenue form hunters flooding the state you'll see a change in herd size.

From: drycreek
21-Jan-18
My take on CWD: The disease is the same everywhere, how your agency handles can be very diverse.

We have it here also, but at least our state hasn't went nuts over it......yet. I'm of the opinion that it's always been here, but what do I know. I'm fairly certain that the spread is tied to game "farms" more in our state than in wild deer. Of course the game "farmers" highly dispute this because there's big money involved. The only deer that have been destroyed here (because of CWD) have been captive deer. I hope it stays that way but who knows.

From: Jaquomo
21-Jan-18
Scientists in Norway studying the outbreak there can find no connection to the US. They believe It occurred spontaneously when proteins began folding in an individual, then spread from there.

Lends credence to the theory that it existed in US cervids long before 1967

From: WhitetailHtr
21-Jan-18
Please, someone, show me where CWD has ever been "devastating to a herd". I might be ignorant here, but maybe I'm just uninformed. Where, oh where, was this herd that was "devastated'?! To go to the extreme, has CWD ever wiped out every deer in a captive game farm? If it would happen, surely the devastation would occur behind a high fence. I need someone to substantiate this for me.

And unless EVERY SINGLE DEER is killed in a county where CWD had been found, there will always be a deer eventually wandering across prion contaminated soil. CWD is there to stay! So the question becomes, would the herd take care of itself without open slaughter, and would nature develop resistance in strong animals as it has for millions of years in other species? Do we already have a majority population of deer that are, in fact, unaffected by the disease? Without being able to test for a deer's genetic code for this situation, I guess that the DNR will just keep shooting them and convincing us that we are doing it for the "good of the herd". It is really flawed to think that every (or even the majority of) negatively tested deer would acquire CWD if they had contacted a positively tested deer, or an area of soil with prions present. Is there any scientific data to prove percentage odds of transfer from one animal, or site, to another animal?!

Don't get me wrong - if CWD is proven to be deadly to humans than I say all bets are off. That's not the present case, and hasn't been for decades out West. But CWD is a convenient excuse for the extreme in herd "management", and it conveniently plays right into the hands of the DNR, insurance and farming industries. I don't buy it. And I don't trust the testing results that are published either. Again, just my take.

In IL in a CWD county, the IDNR is discovering that even with an all-out war on deer, only so many deer can be killed each year. At least with current regulations. At some point, not every piece of ground is hunted, and not every hunter is ruthless. In fact some hunters may back away from killing any does, etc. But in the words of another biologist at a check station, "we're giving hunters the chance to reduce the herd. If they don't we will send in shooters who will do it over bait." There's just no escaping the slaughter.

From: Jaquomo
21-Jan-18
Maybe they should talk to the biologists in CO who already tried this in the core area with a massive night-shooting massacre over a period of a couple years. Didn't work.

From: buckhammer
21-Jan-18
Whitetailhtr.............I know exactly how you feel. This same scenario is playing out right now in Michigan. Very depressing and sickening to think of what has happened to the deer herd here in Michigan.

From: Franklin
21-Jan-18
Whitetail....was spot on....only it NEVER was about CWD. The DNR used the CWD as a excuse to decimate the herd. Many believed it was due to Insurance lobbyist in the State Legislature. I believe anti- hunting was also part of it. The DNR targeted the large mature animals mostly bucks....while CWD biologists stated the younger deer were more of a problem.

They literally walked on peoples property...no permission asked and just killed ALL the deer. You don`t see deer in the fields in the evening....no road kills...nothing. Now they don`t even buy tags. I know taxidermists that would take in 100 deer heads a year go down to 11.....car repair shops (Insurance angle) lost tons of business.

People were buying highway Billboards protesting what the DNR was doing. Don`t think it can`t happen to you as your DNR turns into a enemy of the outdoorsmen.

From: Bentstick81
21-Jan-18
A guy, that i know, was telling me about Shelton, leaving a County open for Late Gun Season, this year, because some very well known people, went up to him and showed proof of a declining deer herd, in that county, and worthless Shelton got upset, and left that county open. I wish Shelton would actually listen to Biologists, instead of getting bought out. This is the type of idiot, that is ruining our deer herd.

From: petedrummond
21-Jan-18
The problem is not cwd or dnr. Problem is blue tongue and failure to immediately respond with drastic permit reductions in same year. Been there in Perry when bluetongue hit in 2008 and 2010. Just now getting back up but still a couple years away. Nature is rough.

From: JTV
21-Jan-18
Indiana is experiencing the same with lower numbers, the only good thing Indiana has done is our One Buck Rule ... now with rifles, a 30+ day gun season of some type, the Dec. kill all the Does season, and the urban zones, deer numbers are down in many areas ...Now, the DNR did say this is what THEY wanted, but is not what the hunters and wildlife watchers want ... I can see some reductions in the urban areas, but not totally trying to wipe out the deer ...

21-Jan-18
When I was a kid in the early 60’s I once saw a deer track.

My, how far we’ve come!

21-Jan-18
Jaquomo,,,, you are right on the money,,,, most dnr personnel act like there gut shot,,, Wis governor, believed that, he pulled back, they want to crucify him,,,,,,,, I have a partner, that will not eat venison, till its tested,,,,,, he is way out to lunch in "left field", but at least he hunts,,,, ha ha,,, and is a nice guy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

From: Inshart
21-Jan-18
Here we go - the Minnesota DNR did mandatory testing this year (from what I'm told - state wide) and low-and-behold turned up CWD, in additional counties. From what I'm reading here, I'll assume we will have the same attitude - kill em all - coming shortly.

From: bighorn
21-Jan-18
Jaquomo is right they have tried to spread it and no success other animals. It was probably here all along. It seems the only places that don't have it don't look for it. Because they don't want to find it.

From: Bowriter
21-Jan-18
As long as there have been cervids, there has been CWD. The only difference is we learned to test for it and then we, as usual, panicked. EHD is far more damaging to deer populations than CWD and there is no proof we can catch it. But...let's kill them all os CWD doesn't kill them.

From: Glunt@work
21-Jan-18
I live in the same area as Jaquomo. I have no doubt I have eaten many pounds of meat from positive animals. At least with whitetails, if they cull the population to very low numbers, they can bounce back pretty quickly once they stop. Mule deer don't bounce back like that, especially since muley populations are down in a lot of the West for multiple reasons.

I took the big mule deer populations and the amount of nice bucks we had in this area for granted. Now if I see a couple does and a forky its a conversation topic at camp. Which is a welcome break from the normal conversation of "Man, I haven't seen a deer all weekend?"

From: bigdog21
21-Jan-18
all this may be part of it but hunter numbers have doubled, the phone check in is a joke how many go to the freezer and never get checked in. unlimited bow tags people taking as many as they can kill for bragging writes. late season gun hunting when the deer start to heard up makes it easier to locate a hunting spot. people do not think of the future. just killing as many as they can. and to donate to food pantries that is just a excuses to kill more. no one should need to kill more then the can eat in a year but i always hear people half to clean out last years deer to make room for the new season.

From: Annony Mouse
21-Jan-18
It was recently demonstrated that CWD can be transferred by eating CWD infected meat into non-human primates. It has long been established that it can between species by intracerebral injection, but that is something that does not occur in nature. This research had the monkeys eating infected meat daily and it was the first evidence that it could be spread in this manner. Ergo, that canned warning one sees from state DNRs is no longer valid.

I have yet to see any state address the use of urine based scent lures which come from farmed cervids. Knowing that CWD can be spread by urine and the linkage between the occurrence of CWD, it would seem that pouring urine on the ground is like lighting the fuse of a stick of dynamite and holding it in your hand.

From: XMan
23-Jan-18
EHD scares me a hell of a lot more than CWD. In my two years of owning IL East Central land, I have seen firsthand how EHD impacts a herd and it seems far more destructive. This past summer put a major hurting on the deer numbers, I am hopeful we have a cooler weather pattern and regular rainfall.

23-Jan-18

orionsbrother's embedded Photo
orionsbrother's embedded Photo
EHD in Pike County. I believe it ended up being fourteen dead deer found in one weekend on a couple hundred acres.

From: elkstabber
23-Jan-18
Annony Mouse: Several states have banned the use of real deer urine with Virginia being one of the most recent.

From: joehunter
23-Jan-18
Michigan hunters are waiting for the "next steps" that will be taken by our DNR. Time will tell.

From: stealthycat
23-Jan-18
if prions last forever ... then either deer have forever had CWD in their herds, or its a brand new disease

nobody knows ....

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