Sitka Mountain Gear
KE at 100 yards: xbow vs. compound?
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
CJ Winand 06-Mar-18
x-man 06-Mar-18
JTV 06-Mar-18
JTV 06-Mar-18
CJ Winand 06-Mar-18
CJ Winand 06-Mar-18
PECO 06-Mar-18
RutnStrut 06-Mar-18
ohiohunter 06-Mar-18
CJ Winand 07-Mar-18
JTV 07-Mar-18
LINK 07-Mar-18
LONEBULL 07-Mar-18
Bowriter 07-Mar-18
SteveBNY 07-Mar-18
CJ Winand 08-Mar-18
x-man 08-Mar-18
Bowriter 08-Mar-18
Beendare 08-Mar-18
Stickshooter 08-Mar-18
wyobullshooter 08-Mar-18
DonVathome 08-Mar-18
PECO 08-Mar-18
GF 08-Mar-18
Shug 21-Mar-18
ELKMAN 22-Mar-18
Beendare 22-Mar-18
Shawn 22-Mar-18
Ole Coyote 22-Mar-18
Stekewood 22-Mar-18
wyobullshooter 22-Mar-18
Olink 22-Mar-18
ground hunter 22-Mar-18
wyobullshooter 22-Mar-18
Shawn 22-Mar-18
wyobullshooter 22-Mar-18
ground hunter 22-Mar-18
trophyhill 22-Mar-18
Olink 22-Mar-18
PECO 22-Mar-18
trophyhill 22-Mar-18
Shawn 22-Mar-18
JTV 22-Mar-18
JTV 22-Mar-18
PECO 23-Mar-18
trophyhill 23-Mar-18
From: CJ Winand
06-Mar-18
Does anyone have any actual KE data between crossbows and compound bows out at 100 yards?

From: x-man
06-Mar-18
That's a relative question. The weapon used has little to do with it. It all depends on the weight and speed of the arrow and bolt. Both can vary from setup to setup.

From: JTV
06-Mar-18
CJ... why do you want such info ? is it for one of you management programs, or for writing an article ...while either may shoot that far, neither should be used on big game at that range ... I dont care who the hell is behind the tool ... there is just so much that can go wrong ... there are archery/arrow programs that can be purchased and downloaded that would give such info .. I have never seen the need to use one, esp. to pick a correct arrow and spine ...

however, I have found one that is free and will give the info you want .. look at the link...even though it says "crossbow" just substitute the arrow info

From: JTV
06-Mar-18

JTV's Link
here is the link ... ^^ ... it only goes to 70 yds http://www.bestcrossbowsource.com/crossbow-arrow-ballistics-calculator

From: CJ Winand
06-Mar-18
Thanks for the information. Because of the advertising some crossbow companies are promoting (long shots), Wyoming is currently re-visiting their crossbow regulations.

This question on KE came up and I wasn't sure how to answer.

From: CJ Winand
06-Mar-18
Thanks for the information. Because of the advertising some crossbow companies are promoting (long shots), Wyoming is currently re-visiting their crossbow regulations.

This question on KE came up and I wasn't sure how to answer.

The site is very helpful, BUT I was trying to find hard core data (already published) from various set ups to compare one to the other at these extreme yardages.

From: PECO
06-Mar-18
I agree that it is irrelevant as no one (Levi, Lee, you, I, etc.) should be taking shots at 100+ yards.

From: RutnStrut
06-Mar-18
So do you want this info to argue for or against crossbows? I don't have the factual data you want. But if anyone does, they may want to know your intentions.

From: ohiohunter
06-Mar-18
One of those Xbows making those claims I believe is the Raven, their brand bolts are pretty light. It will be interesting how and what WY proposes, if they continue to allow xbows I think they should implement a minimum bolt weight. This would do 2 things, increase down range momentum along w/ putting a little more arch into the trajectory making those 100yd shots a little more difficult. Perhaps a fixed bh for xbows would help too.

Research the Lab Radar, see if any rifle buddies has one, it might give you your velocity if set up near the target. I haven't messed w/ one, but I'd say its worth looking into to help collect data. I have access to a Lab Radar (a friends), but not any xbows. I think you have a very valid request and it would make for a decent article to put things into perspective for those who think they're gonna walk out of Cabelas and shoot an elk at 100yds the next morning. Surely if you talk to the right guys they could start data collection.

From: CJ Winand
07-Mar-18
http://www.bowhuntingmag.com/bow-reviews/crossbows-vs-compounds-comparing-apples-to-apples/

Still doesn't answer my question, but interesting read.

From: JTV
07-Mar-18

JTV's Link
http://www.bowhuntingmag.com/bow-reviews/crossbows-vs-compounds-comparing-apples-to-apples/

From: LINK
07-Mar-18
How many are shooting a 60# compound with a 540 grain arrow. Most are probably pulling 70 and shooting a 400 grain arrow. Regardless that’s a big difference in drop and ke. 4” drop at 40 yards is about what I noticed with my dads crossbow 20 years ago. His crossbow shot like a .22 and I don’t understand how someone misses with one.

From: LONEBULL
07-Mar-18
I think there are many other questions that will come up in the debate in Wyoming and the energy difference will be a small part of the debate but it would be nice to see the facts.

From: Bowriter
07-Mar-18
CJ-Take equal weight arrows flying at equal speed upon impact and you should get the same KE. By the way, what is KE? I can't find it in the Periodic Table. Is that what the professors at A&M put on the ends of their rockets? How you doing? Still aging deer by sawing off the front legs?

From: SteveBNY
07-Mar-18
Drop at a 100 yds is like 8+ ft. KE at that point is probably one of the less important issues.

From: CJ Winand
08-Mar-18
Bowriter: Ever since you officially retired and think you forgot all about your sensitivity training? And by the way, my Wildlife Biology professors from the Fightin' Texas A&M Aggies would find your comments offensive. Chances are you may have hurt their little feelings!? :-)

As for sawing legs off deer to age them :-), I'm now removing the brain stems to determine the occurrence of CWD! :-(

If we knew the KE at 100-yards of any arrow, we would have data to argue for or against these types of shots.

From: x-man
08-Mar-18
Honestly, the KE is not relevant. It isn't even an archery term. We aren't using blunt shock to kill animals. We are using broad heads. Different broadheads require different amounts of energy to penetrate different locations of animals.

Asking to compare the KE at 100 yards of compounds and crossbows as a "general question" is like asking how much a house is worth without giving a description or location of the house.

I can give you examples of a compound having more energy at 100 yards, and I can give you examples of the crossbow having more energy at 100 yards.

From: Bowriter
08-Mar-18
LOL- I can't remember where we were but I still recall where we were but I still remember telling that crowd we aged deer by sawing their front legs off and counting the rings.

I really do need sensitty training. Since I retired and fired all my sponsors, I have become quite adept at pissing people off. If you are ever down this way, give me a call and we'll go fishing...or something. Since I quit drinking, I'm not near as much fun but I can still start a fight in a convent. You going to SEOPA in Oct?

From: Beendare
08-Mar-18
Yeah, KE is a useful way to compare potential energy between bow or Bow models.

Comparing momentum data at 100yds; its all a function of arrow speed and weight....the faster/heavier the better.

But as many are saying, an arrows lethality is NOT just a function of arrow energy....an efficient BH can turn a low energy arrow into a very efficient killer.

From: Stickshooter
08-Mar-18
Who says no one should shoot at 100yrds. Afraid of alil practice?

08-Mar-18
I doubt anyone’s afraid of ”alil” practice. KE, momentum, or any other factor, is of zero consequence when shooting foam or paper at 100yds. Animals are a different story.

From: DonVathome
08-Mar-18
I have taken over 100 deer with a compound bow. I recently got an xbow for my girls (10 & 11). Xbows of today are amazing. No practice and super accurate, no need to draw and 2x the KE of my bow. Unreal. They are 1/2 between a modern inline ML and a compound bow. My daughter easily took a small doe at 33 yards with complete confidence.

They need their own season which will never happen here in Ohio.

From: PECO
08-Mar-18
It isn't hard to understand. Targets don't move. Go ahead and practice and hit them all day at 100 yards. The animal at 100 yards that you shoot at has plenty of time to move before your well practiced arrow arrives. I don't care how good you are at stationary targets at 200 yards, those shots are predictable. Many more variables come into play when shooting at live animals.

From: GF
08-Mar-18
“But as many are saying, an arrows lethality is NOT just a function of arrow energy....an efficient BH can turn a low energy arrow into a very efficient killer.”

Yup.... KE in the low-mid #30s has killed everything that won’t fight back and some that will...

From: Shug
21-Mar-18

Shug's Link
CJ according to this guy... the further the better...

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1949186241980774&id=100006682506591

From: ELKMAN
22-Mar-18
Why would it matter? A target doesn't care how much KE you have, and I know no "archery hunter" would shoot that far at a healthy animal... Right?

From: Beendare
22-Mar-18
Shug....great link. That is too funny......

"At 10 yds the arrow doesn't build up enough kinetic energy...."

WHAT?

OMG...and that guy is a game warden?

From: Shawn
22-Mar-18
I get a kick out of no one should be taking 100 yard shots at animal comments. Ask some of the worlds greatest goat hunters if they have killed goats or sheep at 100 yards and I bet you get quite a few that answer yes. I am not saying all of them have but again the guys who have killed 15-20 sheep or goats in far away places quite a few of them have. It has been done and why should anyone worry about it?? Shawn

From: Ole Coyote
22-Mar-18
at our club we have a 100 yard target set up the center is a pie plate you get three shots for $1.00 if you hit the pie plate you win all the money in th kitty, we have done this for six years all the money is still untouched. Heck i can't see that far anymore never mind taking a shot!, lol, lol, lol!!

From: Stekewood
22-Mar-18
Where is that club, when is the next shoot, and how much money is in the kitty? ;-)

22-Mar-18
"I get a kick out of no one should be taking 100 yard shots at animal comments."

Funny, I just shake my head at those idolizing those that take 100yd shots at animals. I'm not going to argue the virtue of taking 100yd shots at animals. I'm not going to change your opinion, and you're certainly not going to change mine.

Wyoming has been about as liberal as they come for what constitutes archery equipment. Crossbows have been legal basically since the beginning of time, and for several years it's been perfectly fine to use a mechanical cocking device. Just in the past few months, G&F has recommended to the Commission that crossbows be eliminated from archery season, except for those that are disabled. Their reasoning is that crossbows are now able to make 100yd shots (i.e. the Raven). The commission is now conducting a study to see if they concur with G&F's recommendation.

For those that see zero ramifications from taking 100yd bow shots, you might want to take another look as to whether there will be any consequenses...other than the obvious.

From: Olink
22-Mar-18
If they ban crossbows for being able to make 100 yard shots, then they better ban compounds too. That is an ignorant position by the G&F. If they wish to ban compounds from archery season, there are much better valid reasons.

22-Mar-18
Funny you posted this thread,,,, yesterday I was out on the range at our club. A guy was shooting a parker thunderhawk crossbow..... not top of the line, but average bow, he wanted to see how much penetration he would get, at distance,,,,,, he was not advocating long distance shooting, for game, he was curious.

His bow was capable of delivering a shot up to 60 yards with the scope he had on it. We put out a 3D target, not the most scientific, test, but he launched one several times, all in the ring, shooting off of shooting sticks, and a small packable seat. he was using a replaceable blade broadhead, at 100 grains...... penetration was not good.....

We put on one of my bh's 125 grain Magnus Buzz Cut, that flew like a dart also, but it buried into the target. he had to cut it out.......... big difference......

No doubt in my mind, with the right set up you would have the KE at 100 yards, to kill ,,,,,,,, I would never do it, but with the advertisement you see, and the marketing etc, oh yeah, there are guys who will take that shot

22-Mar-18

wyobullshooter's embedded Photo
wyobullshooter's embedded Photo
"That is an ignorant position by the G&F."

When you have crossbows ads professing "meet your next rifle", "3" groups at 100yds", "see the crossbow that thinks it's a rifle", and people idolizing those that take 100yd bow shots at animals, you're opening a Pandora's Box you may regret. If you think G&F dept's aren't taking notice that "primitive weapons" are no longer primitive , you're sadly mistaken. Doesn't really matter what you think are more valid reasons.

From: Shawn
22-Mar-18
Never said I idolized any buddy. I would never take a shot that far because I know my capabilities but I have seen many a shooters who can make that shot. I have a buddy that would win the money in the 100 yard pie plate shot most likely his first shot. He also won vegas a time or two. I just hate when someone who has never experienced hunting certain critters give an opinion that they do not have a clue about. Ask Tom Hoffman if he has killed any big game animal with a bow at 100 yards or more. Shawn

22-Mar-18
Once again, a 100yd pie plate shot and Vegas are one thing. That same shot at an animal is quite another. If someone makes a great shot on a 100yd pieplate, I'll be the first to pat them on the back and say "great shot". OTOH, that same person takes a 100yd shot at an animal and I'll just call him/her a damn fool. Don't care if the name's Tom Hoffman or Joe Blow. That's my opinion whether anyone else agrees with it or not.

Just because someone CAN do something doesn't mean they should. Most speedometers go to at least 120mph, most higher. Doesn't mean a reasonable person drives at those speeds.

Again, I'm not going to argue with you. I don't have to live with the consequences of shots others take, at least for now. All I'm saying is the people that decide what we hunt with, and for how long, are taking notice.

22-Mar-18
man I would love to see a primitive weapon season somewhere,,,,, ml with no scopes, and hand drawn bows,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, didn't we have that once?

From: trophyhill
22-Mar-18
Funny.....when I hit my 3d target at 100 yards, he just stands there looking at me. A real deer on the other hand, takes a permanent nap ;)

From: Olink
22-Mar-18
"That is an ignorant position by the G&F." A compound bow is just as capable of making the same 100 yard shots. And unfortunately there are some guys that have already tried 100 yard shots on a live animal with a compound. Restricting a crossbow because it is capable of 100 yard shots is opening up a Pandora's box. So yes, IMO it is an ignorant position by the Wyoming G&F, because if you restrict crossbows for ONLY that reason, compounds might not be far behind.

From: PECO
22-Mar-18
So you guys are saying compounds are as easy to shoot and as accurate as crossbows? I say no.

From: trophyhill
22-Mar-18
Any bow or crossbow, is only as accurate as the guy touching off the shot ;)

From: Shawn
22-Mar-18
No arguing and as said some folks can do it, some cannot. Its only an opinion but for someone to say what another should not shoot that far at an animal is like saying someone should not bait!! Oh wait, I say that all the time. Too each their own!! I also don't think anyone is saying a compound is as easy to shoot accurately as a crossgun, just saying there are some awfully good shots out there with a compound! Shawn

From: JTV
22-Mar-18
"man I would love to see a primitive weapon season somewhere,,,,, ml with no scopes, and hand drawn bows,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, didn't we have that once? "

yes, we did... then men started using womens bathrooms ID' ing themselves as freaks and everything went to hell ..

From: JTV
22-Mar-18

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo

From: PECO
23-Mar-18
Like when Lee shot that sheep, at 88 yards, and it moved 3 feet from the time he released the arrow until the time the arrow got there and the sheep just happened to move to where the arrow went and connected. Yep, great shot.

From: trophyhill
23-Mar-18
That's called anticipation baby ;)

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