Black widow vs other company
Equipment
Does anyone have a black widow bow for sale and what is in the same category as them for less money?
Lots of better true custom bows for less money. They aren't special or faster than any other bows and they aren't custom, but rather factory-produced. They just advertise a lot and have a loyal fanboys. I used to shoot one.
Nothing wrong with them, but they are way overpriced compared to many custom bows you can get elsewhere IMO.
Just looking to get a recurve, takedown if possible. I like the riser on the black widows
Jack Kempf Quick Stick. Not as expensive and great shooter, also has limbs mounted to belly of riser.
Dont own one, never have, but they are great bows. Shot lots of them, love them. Bullet proof, great resale, shoot nice, best customer service in the business. They are not overpriced in comparison to lots of other high end bows. There is a reason they weathered the storm of compounds, and are still going strong. They sure do have their fair share of haters for some reason. Try one, you cant go wrong if it fits you.
I've got an MAII, 62", 63# @ my 29" draw. I've had it for longer than I can remember, and shot I dunno how many deer, and several thousand arrows with it.
Now in my mid 60's with pretty arthritic shoulders, I've switched to two customs...both WhippenSticks...the best damn bows nobody's heard of! Unfortunately, the bowyer hung it up last year. Mine are the Phoenix takedown recurve, 60", 52# @ 29", and the one piece RD longbow, 65", 53# @ 29".
The workmanship is second to none, performance is amazing, zero stack or hand shock, whisper quiet, fast, and almost half the price of a Black Widow.
BW is a good bow...I agree with a previous poster on the durability, and their customer service is great, but while it once was a custom it's now a CNC production product. That's not a bad thing, but I agree it's over priced.
Kinda like Harley-Davidson...lol...an over priced cult classic.
And...I'm an old Harley guy also.
B.W. bows are made by a handful (like 4) people in a very small shop in Missouri. You can go in and pick your laminates and veneers personnally and order the colors you want. Most all fabrication is completed by hand. I would hardly call them a factory bow. For those that have never been there, maybe reserve comments for folks with experience with them. The Widow Boys have a small range in the shop where you can fondle and shoot every model, in various lengths and draw weights. The folks there are great people who love archery and care about their product immensely. I have been there on multiple occasions to have multiple bows made, and like stated above I picked out my componants, draw lengths, weight and colors. A factory made bow they are not. Hand assembled, hand fit and finished. They are built like a tank fyi.
all bocote 2 months to make and deliver
all bocote 2 months to make and deliver
just what 7mm-08 said. service is the best .have beem to their shop,their bows are built to last
If you want a great recurve look at the predator bows. You find a like new for 400 dollars new a bit more. I have had both, the black widow is gone, i love my predator, great shooting bow.
If you want a great recurve look at the predator bows. You find a like new for 400 dollars new a bit more. I have had both, the black widow is gone, i love my predator, great shooting bow.
There a lot of really nice bows being made out there, but none of their "brands" or "names" could possibly be as trusted going forward as Black Widow. There is a reason they have weathered all the storms and came out the other side stronger than ever...
Predators are nice bow. Quick, well-made and smooth. They don't fit me well. I had two and sold them. Thankfully there are many makers out there for us and we can find a bow that suits us individually.
Go to RMSgear for use bows, they have a big selection. If it is your first time with trad bows I recommend to stay no more than 50#, I hunt with a 43# Borders and it will blow through about anything in NA, short placement is key to everything along with a sharp broached. There is some good quality bows being made for the money, Black Rock Black Hunter is about as good as one gets for the $, through Twig Archery. Borders and Morrisons are the compounds of recurves (super curves), shoot low # that get 8-11# more performance. Good hunting.
X3. If you live in the Denver area definitely go visit the Clums at Rocky Mountain Specialty. You can shoot a bunch of different bows, including Black Widow, and see what feels best. The fit-feel of trad bows is different for everyone.
Black Widow MAII Graybark....autographed by Ted Nugent.
Don't be jelly, Lou! :-) :-) :-)
Nick, if you turn it sideways and put a stock on it you can shoot it like Ted!
The OP asked about "the same category as them for less money". No one is saying BW doesn't make fine bows and they've done a fantastic marketing job over the years. But compare theirs at $1,250 to many of the custom bows out there in the $750-800 range (Stalker, for example. I believe he's still a Bowsite sponsor).
If you really like the look/fit of Black Widow bows then you should find one in the price range that you can afford. They are frequently available on the used bow market. They make a good quality bow. Plenty of other good bows out there that sell for less.
Go to the classified section of the leatherwall, lots of good used how's for sale, especially if your a righty.
Like it was said above already.....go shoot a bunch of different styles. See what works best in your hands. Widows are nice bows. No doubt there. I used to live in Nixa right down the road from the shop. Cool place and great folks. That being said.....personally I think there are a lot better bowyers out there making some great bows. Javaman, stalker, RER, Tolke, Striker,Rustic Archer, Wengard to name a few.
I do not have a BW bow. I do have a bow from Great Plains Archery and Shane is a fantasitc bower. Great bow...mine is the SR Swift in Estacado. 56" long and 42lbs @25". I paid around 900.00 for the bow and it is one of the best bows I've shot.
While I haven't shot a black widow, and many of the customs. I have shot a couple, and I own several bows that are new and older. I think the idea that all these new bowyers are doing something very different than what the bowyers did 30 years ago is mostly a marketing ploy. There were many good bowyers, remember, back in the day there were only recurves available. These guys; Asbell, Howatt, Bear, Pearson and more, were true craftsman that honed there art over many, many years. Martin bought Howatt's business many years ago, and I still like those handle/grips best, as I don't like bulky grips. My go to hunting bow is an Asbell Bighorn Custom, although at 63 pounds is a not fun to get to full draw. Point is, buying a couple used bows in good shape is a great way to figure out what you like. You can sell one, buy another, etc. You aren't out so much money, and you may find a bow you like one of these more than any of the new ones. At least it will get you shooting, and building your muscles as trad bows are a real workout. ;)
Hoyt, you should really try one before you buy. Plenty of places to try bows out, thing is a bow, any bow is not one size fits all.
Bill
Dan, I have to politely disagree that nothing has changed in the past 30 years. Some of the "newer" bowyers have improved upon limb design and material combinations to draw smoother and deliver stored energy more efficiently through the release cycle.
I used to shoot Asbell Bighorns until one day I shot a Palmer with the same arrow but 7 pounds lighter, and not only was the Palmer faster through the chrono, but the draw cycle was more consistent. Sold both Bighorns and never looked back.
Until my hunting partner retired from bow building (Kelley Custom Bows) he had a standing challenge to anyone to shoot the same arrow and poundage through a chrono alongside one of his bows of the same length and style (TD vs one-piece, etc) Never found one faster. A good friend brought over his new $1200 Widow one day, all proud of it, and left with the Widow and one of Tom's shop bows. I don't believe he ever hunted with the Widow.
I see your point, and my next bow, (when I heal up from tearing my tricep off), will be an ilf with carbon composite limbs. But, realistically I have seen some charts showing bow speeds and some new bowyers aren't really making much faster bows, and if they are, then they are 3-10 fps faster than the next, and it really depends on draw length/arrow combo as some have sweet spots. But, I give the same advise to people starting out shooting a compound, or starting skiing, or anything else. Don't go out and buy the latest Mathews, Hoyt, etc for $1500. Buy a 2 or 3 year old bow, shoot it, if you love it, then it gives you something to look forward to in the future. I will look for a deal on Palmer bows though, as they sound like a nice addition. ;)
No doubt there is a sweet spot where the stored energy is maximized.
Palmer makes very good, fast bows, not the prettiest, but his customer service is not good. Hopefully you won't need it but if you do be sure you have a backup hunting bow. Took 4 months to "repair" a glass fatigue on one limb, which he did by painting the limbs black. He never returned a phone call in that whole Time. This was many years ago so hopefully he has changed for the better.
Awe piss... I just put my new BW together, fletched up a dozen arrows and started shooting it, now I gotta sell it :)
You all should have started this thread 5 weeks ago by golly.
If the OP is looking for a bow that appears similar to a BW then he may want to look at Hill Country bows. The handle shapes and limb geometry look similar. They are less expensive. I've never seen one so can't offer an opinion on how they shoot.
I have shot a BW recurve for the last 8 or so years. BW is not the fastest bow and IMHO they aren't very good looking either. But, my BW shoots where I am looking so I'll keep shooting it. Used BW bows turn up on ebay frequently so there is an option if the OP can't find one used anywhere else. RMSG also has hundreds of used bows but the BW bows get sold quickly and tend to sell very near their new price.
The OP didn't ask but if they are in the market for a traditional bow the best way to shop is to go to a couple of nearby 3D shoots and check out other people's bows. I've found that most guys are happy to show you their bows and will typically let you shoot it a few times.
They are great bows, shot one for a long time. Then got on the ILF train and haven't looked back. Tons of great bows out there shoot as many as you can!
I don't own a Widow but I've tried a few. They are solid shooters and have probably killed as many deer as any traditional bow made. Customer service is outstanding. It may have been mentioned but BW does have a try-before-you-buy program.
I called BW about an old Wilson Brothers recurve (precursor to BW) that was inherited by my wife's nephew's kids (whatever that is). Great grandpa was a bowhunter and the high school band director. In 1960 the band parents bought him the recurve that he used for many years. The family brought it to me for inspection. I called BW and they had record of the band parents organization buying the bow and the deliver date. I made a new dacron string and it still shoots quiet and accurate.
A lot of good and great bowyers have come and gone over the years but Black Widow is still going strong with a loyal following in spite of any so-called shortcomings on the chronograph. Their primary "shortcoming" is price.
I've owned a TON of traditional bows from Morrison, Schafer, Kota, Bear, Toelke, Centauer, and Black Widow just to name a few. (I'm sure I'm missing a couple of my favorites)...And Black Widows will shoot as good or better than any of them. They sometimes get a bad wrap from Bowyers but my experience has been that they are a solid choice and shoot better than I can. I wouldn't put yours on the rummage sale just yet Nick! :) For a "starter" Widow, you can usually find one somewhere for around $600 used.
Owned most of the customs out there. As Lou said Widows are not a bad bow but as far as performance they are average. Look at Stalker bows, south Cox makes a great bow and you can get a nice one in the $700 range or used and decked out for about the same. There is one for sale on the Leatherwall now, maybe 2. Next would be an RER recurve, great bows and they can be had new again for around $700 or so. You could also look at Timberhawk bows as Scott makes a very nice bow and they can be had for 600-700 bucks as well. Trust me Widows have great customer service and they are not a bad bow, they just charge double what they should! Shawn
Black widows are pricey but they hold their value better than 90% of the ones out there. I have bought and sold six or eight and they stand the test of time.
I’m really partial to the TallTines bows. Nothing wrong with BW but they aren’t the cats meow anymore. They have certainly stood the test of time and I’ve only heard good things about their customer service! Also as mentioned they really hold their value, it’s hard to find a used one for less than $6-700 anywhere
Had the opportunity to be in bear camp with the owners of BW and they were stand up guys. They brought a bunch of their bows to shoot at camp. No sales pressure and nothing but respect for them and good people. FWIW
Bob lee bows... a good as they come..
So many good bows.
The smoothest [and fastest] recurves I've shot are all ILF's.
BW are solid bows. As mentioned, been around a long time. Warranty is something you never want to use, but when it happens you know they will stand by their bows. Plus buying from an unknown bowyer almost always means you will have trouble selling the bow if it's not what you wanted.
Lou, Tom Kelley bows may be quick, but his customer service is the last thing you would want to deal with.
The thing about Widows is they hold their value. Yes you can get good bows for lesser $$$ but how many of them will have the same name recognition. Aside from Bear I can think of no other. The other thing about Widow's is that they always shoot good for me. When I shoot a bow sometimes it just doesn't shoot good for me "where I am looking" I don't think that means that its a bad bow, its just not for me. Just like some don't like certain types of pizza, doesn't mean its bad pizza. But I have never met anyone who has "tasted" a widow and did not like it.
Have several widows. Great bows. I am not a big fan of their recurves, though. Too noisy. The longbows are noisy but they can be quieted down easily. Like others have said, it really helps to shoot several different bows and pick what fits you best. Pick up a used one from the leatherwall first too save some money.
Cazador, I don't disagree with you about Kelley customer service!
Have several widows. Great bows. I am not a big fan of their recurves, though. Too noisy. The longbows are noisy but they can be quieted down easily. Like others have said, it really helps to shoot several different bows and pick what fits you best. Pick up a used one from the leatherwall first too save some money.
Snareman is absolutely right. Bob Lee bows are fantastic. Supurb workmanship, excellent customer service and just plain good folks to work with.
If left handed and want draw weights over 60,contact me.Am soon sending quite a few lefties to RMS in Denver on consignment.(also one righthanded Rocky Mt Recurve with unused xtra limbs and draw weight around 50)
Centaur Archery out of Hamilton Mt. Jimmy Neaves is the bowyer. Trust me, you won't be sorry.
Try to make it to one of the big trad shoots out east and shoot some bows before you buy anything. And start out with a low draw weight one and get some lessons before you shoot it even once, master it then look to buy a hunting bow! DON'T BUY ANY EXPENSIVE BOW WITHOUT SHOOTING ONE FIRST, THE GRIPS ARE ALL DIFFERENT FROM ONE MAKE TO THE NEXT AND YOU MIGHT HATE IT!
I shoot a Palmer. I think they're excellent bows...as good as anything out there.
Palmer is having a sale right now. Sellng his Classic recurve in Bocote wood for 750.00! And on top of that he is getting them delivered in about 2 weeks! I know a couple of guys that have bought from Mike recently. He has a web site. palmerbows.com. I have thought about it. I owned a Palmer years ago and they are nice bows. Fast and smooth. But I'm one of those Black Widow shooters, and I'll just stick to what I've got. I shoot one of there recurves and it is very quiet.....
Go to the leather wall classifieds and find yourself a recurve. Lots of good ones for sale and for 400 dollars you can find yourself a predator recurve which are excellent bows.
Wes Wallace Mentor takedown
What! "Palmer is having a sale right now. Sellng his Classic recurve in Bocote wood for 750.00! "
I paid $600 for my Palmer Classic back in 1993, I was hog hunting down by Sabinal(lives in Colorado now) and stopped in, he showed us how he makes them an I ordered one on the spot...went from a Howatt Hunter to the Palmer, like going from a Volkswagen to a Porcshe
Yes, I think the Sale is still going. Give Mike a call. That is a good price on a new bow!
They are not a true "custom bow" in my opinion since they are produced with C&C equipment I believe. That being said, I owned a used one years ago and they shoot very nice. I didn't really like the big 2x4 riser but it's a little heavier in the hand and that generally aids in accuracy.
Many bowyers cannot stay in the game long term regardless of the quality of their work. Just look at the ads in an old issue of Traditional Bowhunter. Because of that, an established company like Black Widow is likely to be around to handle any issues with your bow.
I don't know what "category" to put them in and not sure if there is a true comparable. They receive custom money for mass produced bows but their quality is at a different level than mass produced bows, I believe. A true niche' in trad archery:)
It took some practice but I finally got mine to shoot straight.
"I like the riser on the black widows ". I have to ask, do you like the riser because of the looks or because of how it feels in your hands when you shoot it? if it doesn't feel good when you shoot it, looks mean nothing.
I like the riser on my Black Widow takedown both in looks, and in the way it feels. If I didn't like the way it feels I wouldn't be shooting it.....
I think the BW risers look ok but not great. My Stalker Wolverine riser and limbs are beautiful but the bow just doesn't shoot as smooth and forgiving as my widow. Nice bear Nick! I have the same setup as you, arrows and bow.
I bought my Black Widow MA II 60", 60# @ 28" back in 85 and bought my Partner Recurve 60", 56# @ 28" from Mike Palmer in the early 90's when he and Bob Lee were partners. The Partner is faster, but both are great shooting bows and quiet. I also have owned Bears, Martins and others. You can't go wrong with either.
Black Widows.... the bows everyone thinks you ain't nothing unless you shoot a Widow!! Yes, I own three, and they stay taken part cause I hate the grip, the stacking feeling from the it builds weight, hate the slow arrow speed, and hate the customer service!! Wait till the riser on your 1400.00 bow starts to crack and they tell you that happens with that particular wood!! Lot better bows out there that outperform a Widow, both in looks and performance. But if you want a Widow, good luck to ya sir.
If people did not have different opinions and preferences there would only be one car manufacturer. Some like Fords and some like Chevy's. IMO - Black Widows have the coolest name in the bow market.
Anthony, If you don't like Black Widow so much, Why did you buy 3?
Ha! Arrowflinger!
I don't own a BW but my hunting buddy does and loves it. I buy used and they are too steep for me. My buddy says there is nothing remarkable about the bow except the price and the fact it consistently kills animals. "Amazing piece of plywood". His quote, not mine.
Love 'em or hate 'em I bet in the past 30 years they have killed more critters than any other maker of recurve because their owners believe in them. Buglimin the exception :-)
“I bet in the past 30 years they have killed more critters than any other maker of recurve“
LMAO! That’s like saying more people have been killed in Corvettes than in Camrys or F-150s because people drive the ‘Vettes fast & stupid.
JMO, if you’re just starting out, get yourself a Sage with limbs in the #30-#35 range (net @ your DL) and learn to shoot. That riser’s already set up for sights, so you can work with those until you get to where you can hit where you KNOW that you’re aiming.... because if you can’t hit when you KNOW where you’re aiming, then how the hell are you going to learn how to shoot when you can only GUESS where you’re aiming???
And on top of that, the best way to tune a string-bow is by bare-shafting, but it doesn’t work any better than you can shoot.
Widdas: Never shot one; some love ‘em and some hate ‘em. I wanted one in the worst way for YEARS, but I got over it. And frankly... For speed, I’d be thoroughly surprised if a Widow could out-shoot my 27-year-old Howatt Hunter, for which I paid the princely sum of $150, brand new. You wanna talk about holding value? Show me a 25-year old Widow (or any custom you like) which has been hunted over 40, 12-14 hour days (and hundreds of miles), has sent well over 10,000 arrows across the shelf, and is worth 2 or 2 1/2 times what it sold for originally...
If you’re really set on a take-down, you could find a used Martin Hatfield, but those are going for a good deal more than the Hunters (relatively speaking) because so many fewer were made... but they’re still going for a nice chunk less than a Widda.
I’m not saying that a Widow isn’t a perfectly good bow, and their ads have some of the best photography in the industry... but the bows themselves are not Magical in any way.
And FWIW, a lot of guys are on some kind of Quest for The Bow that does everything perfectly for them (operative word being FOR), and the truth is that while you absolutely CAN waste untold amounts of time and money that way, if you can learn to shoot one, you can shoot ‘em all. I shot my Hunter exclusively for a dozen years before I picked up anything else, and I’ve never shot any other bow noticeably better or worse over the longer term. And just a word of warning - just about ANY new bow will shoot circles around whatever you’re used to shooting... For about 3 weeks... After which time it will Suddenly and Magically become no more accurate than you are.
Life’s kind of a Bummer that way sometimes....
Look at the Predator TD recurve if you want a fast smooth shooting bow.
Had to run this one over with my lawn mower to getter shootin right. It's been about seven weeks since I started shooting her, fun stuff. Darn widows are costin me money...
Nice bears Nick congrats!
If you like the forward riser design, check out Timberghost bows. They are great bows for the money. My advice is shoot as many different kinds as you can and decide from there. If you are dead set on a widow, you can pick one up in the leatherwall classifieds for a fraction of what a new one costs or you can always have black widow send one of their stock bows to ya and if you don't like it, send it back. Good luck!
Traditional bows don't get any better than Widows. I guess some can be as good, but not better. That being said, I'm sure liking my Satori. I've had PSR, SAG, PCH, PSA, PL and liked them well enough. I love the PMA bow and I've never shot anything as well until I got my Satori set up. If a bow is made to order, it is "custom". When I ordered my bow in 2015 I called, asked for a PMA recurve. I asked for graybark riser with bamboo limbs and bamboo laminations in the riser to match the limbs. I asked for my name on the bottom limb near the specs and "Arrows follow a wandering mind" written on the top limb. If custom means getting something just for yourself at your own request than that must fit the bill. The bow arrived just as I ordered and I am happily shooting it still and will be as long as I can shoot bow. Fast forward to Summer 2017. My riser had developed a crack along the sight window. Very small, but disturbing none the less. I sent the riser in and within 3 weeks a new riser of the same design was built...free of charge. That is customer service. Black Widow makes as good of a bow as you could find, and the customer service is second to none. To me they are the best, but no one can say they are not a very good bow company, even if they prefer something else.
Nick, you are putting that Widow to good use. Beautiful bears!
When I first got into traditional archery, I looked at Black Widow, and seriously considered it. But I went with Wes Wallace, because i thought the lines were much more graceful. Over the years I've shot a lot of BW's owned by others. They are a nice bow, but not really any nicer than my Wallace. In fact I like the balance better of my Wallace than the BW.
On the other hand I have heard many good stories of how BW stands behind their bows, and has gone WAAAAYYY out of their way to help those in need.
If you go with BW, you will have a quality product. If you are happy with the lines, you will be happy with the bow. But don't just go with your first choice and explore the plethora of bowyers that are out there. You'll be glad you did, even if you decide to stay with the BW.
TMBB
