Carbon Express Arrows
Big bull trips, breaks neck!
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
Rut Nut 01-May-18
ohiohunter 01-May-18
LUNG$HOT 01-May-18
LINK 01-May-18
Dyjack 01-May-18
yooper89 01-May-18
Ziek 01-May-18
Ucsdryder 01-May-18
Riplip 01-May-18
LKH 01-May-18
ohiohunter 01-May-18
Dikndirt 01-May-18
ohiohunter 01-May-18
TrapperKayak 01-May-18
Ben 01-May-18
SBH 01-May-18
WV Mountaineer 01-May-18
Ziek 01-May-18
drycreek 01-May-18
LKH 01-May-18
Ziek 01-May-18
splitlimb13 01-May-18
drycreek 01-May-18
TrapperKayak 02-May-18
ohiohunter 02-May-18
TrapperKayak 02-May-18
Ziek 02-May-18
iceman 02-May-18
splitlimb13 02-May-18
Griz 02-May-18
DL 02-May-18
Ziek 02-May-18
Ucsdryder 02-May-18
Ucsdryder 02-May-18
spike buck 02-May-18
ohiohunter 02-May-18
Jethro 02-May-18
Rut Nut 02-May-18
Firsty 02-May-18
12yards 02-May-18
splitlimb13 02-May-18
keith 02-May-18
TrapperKayak 02-May-18
cnelk 02-May-18
Ucsdryder 02-May-18
splitlimb13 02-May-18
TrapperKayak 02-May-18
ohiohunter 02-May-18
drycreek 02-May-18
splitlimb13 02-May-18
ohiohunter 02-May-18
APauls 02-May-18
TrapperKayak 02-May-18
Matte 03-May-18
TD 03-May-18
BULELK1 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
PAbowhunter1064 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
cnelk 03-May-18
LINK 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
wilbur 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
APauls 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
Ziek 03-May-18
Ziek 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
1boonr 03-May-18
grubby 03-May-18
Ziek 03-May-18
Topgun 30-06 03-May-18
splitlimb13 03-May-18
lineman21 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
TrapperKayak 03-May-18
ohiohunter 03-May-18
Firsty 03-May-18
ohiohunter 03-May-18
splitlimb13 03-May-18
cnelk 03-May-18
TD 03-May-18
splitlimb13 03-May-18
Ziek 03-May-18
t-roy 03-May-18
TD 04-May-18
1boonr 04-May-18
12yards 04-May-18
Ucsdryder 04-May-18
TrapperKayak 04-May-18
Ziek 04-May-18
Boreal 04-May-18
LINK 04-May-18
1boonr 04-May-18
TrapperKayak 07-May-18
TrapperKayak 07-May-18
From: Rut Nut
01-May-18

Rut Nut's Link
Saw this one when looking at the other video. Talk about bad luck! : (

From: ohiohunter
01-May-18
Reminds me of the peacock conundrum... sometimes the bigger you are the harder you fall.

From: LUNG$HOT
01-May-18
“Big tree fall hard”

Dam the luck!

From: LINK
01-May-18
That’s some bad luck. I’ve seen whitetails catch their back feet and flip but they always get up and run off.

From: Dyjack
01-May-18
Brutal. What a way to die.

From: yooper89
01-May-18
Damn. That’s a real bummer. Wonder if they were able to get a roadkill tag for the meat.

From: Ziek
01-May-18
While it doesn't appear to be the case here, OLD fences are an unacceptable hazard. Where I live, there was a fence around every 40 acres from when this area was a cattle ranch. I removed most of them on the 160 acres I once owned. It seems ranchers, farmers, and even some folks that don't need wire fences, are quick to put them up, and once installed, they NEVER come down. Maybe we need a permit system before they're installed with a renewal every 5 years or so, with a huge fine if they'r not removed when no longer necessary.

From: Ucsdryder
01-May-18
I hate stuff like that. Love killing them, hate seeing them die!

From: Riplip
01-May-18
Tough to see especially from a fence.

I called in a fairly nice 6x6 this past season and he came in right at me until he was about five feet away and I had to let down. When I did so he literally jumped in the air and tried to run, when he did he tripped and did two full somersaults down the hill breaking trees and making one of the loudest noises I have heard in the woods. Scared the crap out of both of us as I thought he was dead! Pretty cool encounter...

From: LKH
01-May-18
Nature is tough. One year SW of Douglas, WY we found a big 4x4 suspended from its antlers in a crack between two huge boulders. It was just hide and bones since the bugs had cleaned it up. Big predators couldn't reach it

Ziek, our farm in northern MN is still in the family. We cut down a beaver girdled oak and when we cut it into firewood found it had been used to put up a barbwired fence. From the tree rings we figured it was no later than 1935. Wire was completely inside the tree.

From: ohiohunter
01-May-18
LKH, that would be a terrible death.

As beautiful as nature is, she can be twice as ugly.

From: Dikndirt
01-May-18
Wow didnt take the birds long to start circling!!!

From: ohiohunter
01-May-18
About 30 seconds huh! I bet that road feeds a lot of scavengers.

From: TrapperKayak
01-May-18
That's not nature. That's human caused spooked elk that resulted in an unnatural death at the hands of a human made barrier. That pisses me off seeing that. Would have been the same if it were a cow too, unnecessary. Those old fences need to be removed. I HATE ALL BARBED WIRE. I once found a big old Roosevelt bull wedged between two downed trees in deep snow dying near Mt. St. Helens. Two days later I went back and he was dead. That made me feel bad for him but THAT one WAS natural, and it did not irk me like this one does. Freaking waste off a beautiful animal, this one here. Dammit!

From: Ben
01-May-18
The reason a lot of ranches were fenced that way is to rotate pastures so your pasture grass would last all season. Run cattle in one till it is grazed down then, move the cattle to the next while that one rests. Called rotational grazing. The fencing is a necessity in a lot of areas.

From: SBH
01-May-18
Ben is spot on.

01-May-18
Ben x 2. Fences are expensive, take hard work to build, and even more diligence to keep up. No one is building them unless they need them.

From: Ziek
01-May-18

Ziek's embedded Photo
Ziek's embedded Photo
It's only necessary IF it's being used and in good repair. That's hard to tell from the video. In the case in the photo, it's not even barbed wire. It's an old electric fence that hasn't been used in many years and should be required to be removed. Anyone who spends any time out and about has seen too many animals killed just because fence builders are too lazy to remove them when they're no longer required.

From: drycreek
01-May-18
Is that public or private ? It makes a difference. If it's private, what the landowner doesn't need is the government telling him to build a fence or to tear one down, because it's simply no one else's business.

From: LKH
01-May-18
Drycreek, I've got about 190 acres but because of riparian areas and multiple pastures I have roughly 4 miles of fence. It's expensive and a lot of work to maintain. Even so, if I'm not maintaining it and it's killing animals I think it is someone else's business.

I freed a calf elk from a fence in WY but after a while it was obvious it was not going to make it and we put it down. You only have to see one animal suffering like that one was to realize that even if you own the land it doesn't give you the right to kill and torture animals through neglect and laziness.

By the way, even a new fence will get the occasional animal.

From: Ziek
01-May-18
If that's the case drycreek, then he should be fined for illegally killing the elk in his abandoned fence. It's also no longer legal to abandon old vehicles on your property, or to fowl the water, etc.

From: splitlimb13
01-May-18
First of all i think the real issue here is the title says "Big Bull" :^) haha had to sorry. Some of you guys sound like greeny tree huggers! No matter what type of property it is it's obviously fenced for a reason. That fence isn't even an old fence,the posts are T-Posts and if you guys bickering about knew anything about ranches or fences you'd know the reason that fence is sagging and tilted I'd because of the elk! Fences are necessary and expensive. Stuff happens,it unfortunate but it happens.

From: drycreek
01-May-18
So if a squirrel gnaws into the wiring in your attic and gets electrocuted you should be fined ? Shit happens ! It ain't always pretty, but it's always gonna happen. Who gets fined if you hit a deer with your car ? The deer or you ? Animals don't live forever. It makes me cringe every time I see a dead deer on the highway, but mostly because it's a total waste of good meat. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that, to the deer (or elk), it makes little difference whether it's a car, an arrow, or a bullet. Or a fence. I don't want to see any animal suffer, but an animal's world is a dangerous place and there's not much to be done about it.

From: TrapperKayak
02-May-18
I understand the necessity of fencing for ranching operations and herd rotation, etc. But that doesn't mean I have to like barbed wire. Build the fence out of split rail or something else. Safer on game, more expensive, harder to maintain, better to look at, less durable, more labor intensive to build, etc.. (ie., alot of pros and cons). But it is easier on game trying to cross it. Greeny tree huggers? I could counter and say some of you sound like you could care less about game animals unless you are able to score some to fill your guts or display on the wall. I value game animals in both live and dead status, and I see this kill as an unnecessary waste, just like most car killed deer and elk. It was avoidable and so are many roadkills. What value is there in a rotting dead critter by the roadside (caused by vehicle or fence)? Alot of them were an avoidable waste. Same as caused by distracted driving.

From: ohiohunter
02-May-18
How many animals do vehicles maim and kill?

From: TrapperKayak
02-May-18
Huh? You want a number? I am not sure where you are from, but here in the states its in the millions, all types of wildlife. Many I have actually witnessed, and most of those were totally avoidable. People driving too fast when animals are in or near the road. Many fail to even slow down for crossing critters, Its just an overall attitude that hey, you're in the way, tough crap. Or distraction. Whatever, re: your handle, I thought at first meant you were from Ohio - obviously not. But the last time I drove through Ohio, USA, I saw two of the biggest bucks dead in the median that I've ever seen anywhere. Huge 10 and 12 pointers, miles apart, both wasted on the freeway. I know it is sometimes inevitable, but I don't always think people are paying attention to deer near the road. Just saying, how about just being more cognizant of wildlife when driving, and anyone who is building fence, consider an alternative to barbed wire. Not meaning to start a big argument here, it just bothers me to see that bull wipe out and die, and the same for road killed wildlife. I'm a fish and wildlife bio. and manager and these kinds of mortalities have always bothered me. That's just how I am.

From: Ziek
02-May-18
"So if a squirrel gnaws into the wiring in your attic and gets electrocuted you should be fined ?"

That's not even close to what I'm talking about. There are fences that control livestock that are far more wildlife friendly than barbed wire. And that's not even my primary concern. It's abandoned fences. When they're no longer needed they should be removed, either by the person who put them up, or how they will be addressed (either to be used and maintained or removed) if the property is sold.

There is much in Fence Law that is outdated and needs to be amended. Colorado, for instance, is an "open range" state. That basically means that a rancher doesn't even have to fence his livestock in. If you don't want them on your property, you have to fence them out. How stupid and outdated is that?

From: iceman
02-May-18
Definitely a slow time of year when we're arguing about fences here. Even suggesting that the government be involved with permits and fines for fences on your own land. That's exactly what we need...sheesh.

From: splitlimb13
02-May-18
Split rail? That would be so expensive and rots do fast. Majority of the time barb wire is all cattle respect,other than pipe and pipe could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars ,and there are places that holes can't be dug or pipe can not be taken to because of access issues. You can continue to wimper over your personal feelings,in the end it's the way things are and will always be. Not the ranchers fault or the elk,it's life.

From: Griz
02-May-18
Once found a cow elk along a road way back in NF in Montana. She had tried to jump uphill over a three strand. Rear leg came down between upper and middle wires and tripped her. She fell backwards downhill creating a tourniquet just above her hoof. She must have fought hard as the ground around there was really torn up. she had been dead a day or so.

From: DL
02-May-18
Opening day of deer season in Oregon a few years ago we had a herd of elk come running out of a pasture towards the road. The cows jumped the fence but the bull tripped and crashed in a heap right in front of the truck. He must have been one of those animals from The Far Side.

From: Ziek
02-May-18
"... it's the way things are and will always be."

That is so lame and shortsighted. It IS the ranchers fault. Barbed wire is OLD technology. I'm not going to do all the research, but there is a response in the Bugling Back section in the current Bugle Magazine about fencing that addresses the point. I'm not suggesting that ALL barbed wire be removed. But better choices should be used going forward, and all ABANDONED fences should be required to be removed. As far as laws go; if landowners did as I do, and remove them voluntarily, that wouldn't be necessary.

From: Ucsdryder
02-May-18
The number of animals killed by cars vs fences is enormous. If money is no object it sounds like it’s time to fence every road in America with 8 foot deer fences...both sides of course. Don’t forget the animal overpasses!

At some point you have to write it off to chit happens.

From: Ucsdryder
02-May-18

From: spike buck
02-May-18

spike buck's embedded Photo
Deer was running across a clear cut and hit the rut and broke its back!!
spike buck's embedded Photo
Deer was running across a clear cut and hit the rut and broke its back!!

From: ohiohunter
02-May-18
No one cares that a nice 10pt and 12pt were hit and killed, the number of full blown world class deer killed by vehicles would make you gag, but as said... it happens and nothing will change, nature doesn't discriminate. For every "avoidable" collision how many do you think are avoided???? millions upon millions, who in their right mind thinks they are just going to plow through a deer unscathed, I guess new yorkers? People want to avoid hitting deer like the plague. Since you're so sensitive regarding this subject I suggest you never drive NM at night, 2 words..... Kamikaze Konejos!

The fence issue is pretty much a joke, to think a few game species die every year will make a lick of difference you're sadly mistaken. Now if fences were killing Tasmanian tigers and snow leopards you might have an argument. OTOH the scrap left behind is a different story, doesn't kill a bunch of animals or anything, but it is litter.

From: Jethro
02-May-18
Spike Buck, don't show that. Now somebody will say we have to make sure all ruts are filled in.

From: Rut Nut
02-May-18
Wow! Never expected this thread to turn like it did. Just thought it was amazing that a bull elk would/could kill itself by tripping over a fence. And more amazing that someone actually caught it all on tape.

From: Firsty
02-May-18
Wow you can really tell you the city slickers are on this site......... definitely can tell some don't understand how ranching or farming works in the real world..

From: 12yards
02-May-18
So, If you are hunting and you see this happen and you quick run over and put an arrow in him can you claim him as a kill?

From: splitlimb13
02-May-18
Agreed that someone does not understand. It's REALLY ridiculous.

From: keith
02-May-18
1: How do you know it was humans that caused the herd to run? Could have been any number of things. 2: Why did all the other elk make it over the fence. Maybe this bull had a vision problem. Natural selection? 3: There are many things an elk can trip on, fences are just one of them. 4: It doesn't appear to be a long painful death. About 1/2 a minute, and it was done.

From: TrapperKayak
02-May-18
LOL, city slickers, 'New Yorkers', wimper over personal feelings, does not understand, etc. ... all well and good, remain clueless, you have no idea about my background. Live 4 hrs from 'New York', grew up on and around farms, fences, etc. and lived in MT and WA for 30 years, worked on ranches, built a ton of fence there, barns, etc. whatever.. I have never hit a deer, or anything larger than a marmot, but have avoided countless potential hits. Whatever, got a few hardasses who think nothing matters. Apathy is reality too..obviously.

From: cnelk
02-May-18
About 20 yrs ago I was ML hunting and had an antlerless tag in my pocket. One morning I came across this calf elk that had its back leg twisted in the top 2 wires of a perfectly stretched fence bordering BLM & NF

The calf was in fine shape, must have happened earlier that morning.

I cocked my 50 cal and put the muzzle behind its ear and pulled the trigger. After I put the smoldering hair out, I punched my tag, and pack that elk back to my truck and butchered it.

So, who's fence was it that the calf got hung up in? NF or BLM?

From: Ucsdryder
02-May-18
Brad we’ve talked about this!!! You were supposed to free the calf then shoot it later! Didn’t you read the thread on the locked bucks!

From: splitlimb13
02-May-18
Hahahaha perfect!!! Good eating!

From: TrapperKayak
02-May-18
NF or BLM. Doesn't matter, both federally funded. No problem with that situation. Luckily it got used and not wasted. I still don't like strand wire fences though. That's just me.

From: ohiohunter
02-May-18
Have you ever watched a fawn beat itself to death trying to get to is mother on the other side of a square mesh fence?

From: drycreek
02-May-18
I think if that had been a possum we would not be having this discussion........

From: splitlimb13
02-May-18
From: drycreek 02-May-18Private Reply I think if that had been a possum we would not be having this discussion........

Hahaha prob not.

From: ohiohunter
02-May-18
Nope, but it does shed a lot of light on to those who think a system should change per their opinion..... where have we seen this gender neutral bathroom before?

From: APauls
02-May-18
I think it was an interesting video.

From: TrapperKayak
02-May-18
Lol! Barbed wire needs to go. Period. ;>O. :)

From: Matte
03-May-18
Just remember the Industry building the fence let alone the materials is huge something like 8 Billion a year. Beef industry wow could even imagine the economic impact there. Sorry but fences are needed to feed this country. The only thing I hate about barbed wire is tearing a hole in my pants. Well and maybe when you have to tear it out but heck you can still make good money for that.

From: TD
03-May-18
I've seen elk and deer bones in a field of blowdowns...... pretty much looked the same scenario. Seen pics of a dozen elk killed with a lightning strike. Nature is a bitch.

Nobody mentions how many elk are fed by the farmers hay fields or ranchers private pastures..... or saved in the winter by feed programs.....

Stuff happens. Now and then they even fall on a sharp stick...... nobody seems particularly upset at the sharp stick and into the freezer way of nature....

From: BULELK1
03-May-18
That is a sad vid but thanks for sharing with us.

Down broken up old barbwire fencing is worst than an upright/visible barbwire fence.

Good luck, Robb

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18
Bulelk1, true that. I know barbed wire is necessary for farms/ranches, I'm just stirring the pot now, thus the :) That doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't.

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
CitySlicker here, thought I'd post up some facts and a story. For your 'discussion'. https://www.gohunt.com/read/wildlife-fences-friend-or-foe-to-big-game Yeah, we need that barbed wire.

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
Kinda like women, Can't live without it, can't live with it.

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
Time to clean it up. Lots of old abandoned fencing out there. RMEF and others doing something about it. Keep it repaired, and it is much easier on stuff. Let it go, and this is often the result. It happens a lot more frequently that most realize. There are literally millions of miles of barbed wire out there, much of it abandoned. Just something to think about.

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
It is a man-caused problem for wildlife. It is not nature. There are solutions. Barrier fences with over or underpasses, etc. on main highways, like in Banff. Its just something to consider. Human infringement on elk and deer habitat is increasing, esp. in wintering areas, esp. along the Rocky Mt. front. But hey, I'm from New York, how would I know what a rancher needs?

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
Whoops sorry about the double post. Meant to do this one. "Is there a brain in there, or is it all just horn???"

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
Its not a problem, 'It's just nature'.

03-May-18
Desperado....you better come to your senses.....you been out ridin' fences, for so long. :-D

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18
LOL! Good one, PA. https://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2011/02/record-elk-found-back-huge-antlers-stuck-mud

Geee, I wonder f he tripped over the fence, or just fell over forward from the weight of his rack and got stuck there. Its just nature.

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18
The big picture (with some other interesting stuff mixed in). Worth a look and a ponder. Maybe there is something else worth looking at, eh Hoss?

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18
The big picture (with some other interesting stuff mixed in). Worth a look and a ponder. Maybe there is something else worth looking at, eh Hoss? Sorry for the double post again. https://www.google.com/search?q=barbed+wire+tangled+in+antlers.&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CUjbMuVjVkGRIjjEKqxQlDkf8hP33iL3VyqzhgZjnnR7JmLuGfIGMox8OcmPxjfRTBnDgcTTQAfBzmvWgw9b7lxuYyoSCcQqrFCUOR_1yEZR2iNI7T_1qLKhIJE_1feIvdXKrMRC2R7_1S9jU3QqEgmGBmOedHsmYhF8utvsT-WMwCoSCe4Z8gYyjHw5EWmfnbjATqmkKhIJyY_1GN9FMGcMRAWtlckbA3xQqEgmBxNNAB8HOaxGwwRI6ynok7SoSCdaDD1vuXG5jEebgeASSWYmu&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi3gtGns-naAhXxlOAKHYQAAd0Q9C96BAgBEBg&biw=1888&bih=882&dpr=1#imgrc=fymf91QzfSPIzM:&spf=1525345757903

From: cnelk
03-May-18
My ranching friends in N Colorado live in a big elk migration corridor. Twice a year, the elk come thru their fences, absolutely wrecking them. Nary an elk is found each year.

The more frustrating part is the fence repair, so they have started 'laying down' the fence and then putting it back up after the spring migration, before the grazing starts

From: LINK
03-May-18

LINK's embedded Photo
LINK's embedded Photo
I found this doe. I freed her leg and then was going to kill her. After her leg was free 3-4 seconds, she jumped up and I watched her run 1/2 mile. Not sure if she made it. Fences are a necessary part of a modern world.

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18
cnelk, that's a smart solution. Seriously, good thinking on their part. Learn as you go I guess, adapt to situation.

From: wilbur
03-May-18

wilbur's embedded Photo
wilbur's embedded Photo

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18
That looks like a Texas buck. Long brown antlers, short gray hair.

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18
Those large hole mesh fences are not friendly either. Smaller mesh, 2x4 is better. Wire sucks basically. Too bad it is cheap and necessary.

From: APauls
03-May-18
I don't get the "It's not nature" comments. While I hate big cities and concrete as much if not more than the average dude the fact is that no one would argue man came from nature way back. So man evolved, and what you see today is what man has made. It's all part of nature. Nature just looks different today than it did 3,000 years ago. If a monkey makes a tool, is the monkey no longer part of nature? Where do you make the distinction? Especially a fence. Fences are so old. Take a fish trap fence for example. Sticks stuck in the mud to trap fish. People probably think that is still nature. Just sticks and mud. But it's also a fence. Fences are not nature. Either you include man and all man has made in the natural world, or you don't, but it's rationally weird imo to include some of it, but not all. It's just a different world today and we need to look after it. I imagine vehicles are far worse on animals than fences.

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18
Ya know, I have always also held that very stance. I guess I just don't see it as the same as a lightning strike or falling off a cliff, or getting stuck in a tree or between two boulders. That seems more like "Nature'. But yeah, Man is part of Nature, cars, wire, etc all come from Earth, the ground, so I completely agree with you APauls. I still think there are better materials to build fences with that offer more protection to more wildlife than wire. Albiet far more expensive and probably logistically preclusive.

From: Ziek
03-May-18
"...so they have started 'laying down' the fence and then putting it back up after the spring migration, before the grazing starts"

This is exactly the type of thing some of us our talking about. In Colorado north of Silverthorne on rt. 9, one of the most dangerous highways in the state for vehicle/wildlife collisions, they have installed wildlife overpasses and underpasses and game proof fencing to funnel the critters to the safe routes. Much of it was paid for, and the effort led by, the big ranch the road traverses. Some landowner/ranchers get it. While this project goes above and beyond what anyone would expect, there is much that can be done. Proper fence choice, use, management, and removal of fences that are no longer required, should be part of doing business. The age of 'put up the cheapest, easiest choice' with no concern for wildlife should be over. Maybe fence kills should be part of landowner tag allotments.

From: Ziek
03-May-18
While man is part of nature, we put rules into effect to limit the damage we cause. We no longer dump our sewage into streams, we limit emissions released into the atmosphere, have quotas on fishing take, eliminated market hunting, etc. All these restrictions are more expensive, but also more responsible - a human trait. As to road kills; at least there is a sort of quid pro quo. ;-)

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18
Darn fine assessments and posts, Ziek.

From: 1boonr
03-May-18
I doubt that it broke its neck because it was kicking its legs. Maybe it died of a heart attack and the fence had nothing to do with it. People telling landowners that they need to remove something from their property because they think it is no longer needed, give me a break. Imagine somebody telling you to remove something from your property. Split rail fence as replacement for wire. What would that cost, and couldn’t an elk still trip on it? Would you have a maximum height limit also?

From: grubby
03-May-18

grubby's Link
A buddy of mine found this one......

From: Ziek
03-May-18
"Imagine somebody telling you to remove something from your property."

We don't have to imagine that. Old mines have to be mitigated, it's no longer legal to leave strip mines un-recovered, etc., no matter who owns the land. In the mostly rural, Colorado county where I live it's illegal to abandon an inoperable vehicle on your property. Sounds like the same sort of thing to me.

Some of you are putting up straw arguments. We're not saying all barbed wire should be replaced. We're saying use better choices going forward and clean up the mess you've left with abandoned fences. Many experiences indicate that using smooth wire on the top and bottom of 4 wire fences are just as effective and less hazardous to wildlife. While I haven't priced it, I can't imagine it's more expensive than barbed. I have a neighbor that has NO animals to fence in or out. He put up barbed wire to mark his property boundary. WTF! Much of this is just about education and overcoming the inertia of "it's the way we've always done it".

From: Topgun 30-06
03-May-18
I imagine it broke it's neck in short order after all the struggling it was doing trying to free itself and the fence certainly did cause the accident. When he jumped you can see his lower front legs hit the wire causing them to buckle under him with all his weight continuing forward causing him to do that summersault.

From: splitlimb13
03-May-18
BLEEDING HEARTS OF THE WORLD UNITE! Maybe you can start a movement to get ranchers funding for elk friendly fences? Old wire just laying around should be cleaned up! That's the only thing I'll say you're right about!

From: lineman21
03-May-18
Ok so we have a 1500 acre ranch with 4 wire barbed wire surround and dividing. Miles and miles of the stuff. What should I specifically do to prevent a deer from getting hung up? And please don’t bankrupt me with your suggestion. I also don’t like cattle getting into the corn field so keep that in mind as well when you give me your answer.

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18
BLEEDING HEARTS OF THE WORLD UNITE! Splitlimb, speaking of friendly fences...;^)

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18
lineman, not talking about well maintained fence 'in operation' as much as old abandoned wire. But yeah, money spent to protect a public resource should be considered. Grant money maybe. If you can't afford it, work something out with the govt. Lease to run cows? Open range is pretty common out west. Fence necessary? Just wondering.

From: TrapperKayak
03-May-18

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
"Imagine somebody telling you to remove something from your property." Yeah, why on earth would you do that? Because its a liability to others maybe???

From: ohiohunter
03-May-18
Lineman, I think the cheapest remedy would to make the top wire more visible, but cheap is a relative term. No matter the solution attempting to battle this issue will cost the fence owner $$$.

From: Firsty
03-May-18
I agree fence kills should be a part of landowner tag allotments..........????

From: ohiohunter
03-May-18
Its potentially the exact opposite. The damage done to the fence, and other damages, often warrants the issuing of landowner tags. Perhaps a rancher can chime in, but some states give subsidies for property damage, including grazing, as well as tags for population control [which as we all know] and is sold to further line the LO pockets.... if I knew in more detail I would divulge but I don't.

From: splitlimb13
03-May-18
Here in NM for a while a certain stamp was a requirement, all proceeds from the stamp was disbursed to landowners for fence repair.

From: cnelk
03-May-18
For those that want fence kills to be part of the ranchers allotment, Im sure they would be glad if your volunteered your time to walk fence lines to count dead animals and remove them.

From: TD
03-May-18
Better yet, how about the ranch directly charging the state for wildlife damages to their fences..... I'd guess it was at least 10 to 1damage to fence kill..... likely much higher. How many folks have ever made fence repairs? They don't fix themselves.....and it's hard work and time taken from doing the normal necessary jobs. Could be a matter of a few minutes to a full day depending on the repair. I don't know if you could call the materials "cheap" either. But it is money out of their pockets none the less. Net money. Along with crop damage it's one of the reasons many states issue landowner tags. It helps with the costs and damages from wildlife at basically no cost to the state.

Been "riding fence" since I was a young kid. To this day we walk fences and help repairs on the ranches we have permission to hunt. They appreciate us. The ranchers hate the deer, they bust up the fences all the time. Cattle get out and cause yet more grief, fence repairs can be the least of it. We've found deer in them too but it's pretty rare considering the miles and miles of them. In most cases you can see where dogs have run them into the fences.

Laying down the fence is less labor than fixing it. But the reality is most times the fences are there for a reason. Laying them down kinda defeats the purpose. If you can rotate the herds to do so that would help. But it's still labor. Sometimes I think people forget these folks are trying to make a living. If you're a 40 hr a week guy and then forced into some overtime work with no pay I'd imagine it wouldn't sit well......

Landowner tags in many areas are abused, I'd agree with that. But the reasons they were created were/are valid IMO.

Honestly the worst I've seen at killing game are the electric fence tapes. Always the axis bucks..... for some reason they always want to fight that white tape when the rut kicks in. A horse pasture one year tangled and killed 5 or 6. More bucks than what we took out of the place in that time. A couple of those bucks were killed by other bucks after the one had gotten tangled. They are brutally aggressive. Is that man? Or mother nature? if a fence falls on the range and no one is there to hear it....? =D

From: splitlimb13
03-May-18
Thank you td . That's exactly right.

From: Ziek
03-May-18
"Net money." And here I thought "nets" were for fish. I know I've heard that somewhere. ;-)

While I haven't repaired fence, I've taken a few miles of old fence down. That crap is the nastiest stuff ever invented! I think for every day out, I ruined a pair of gloves, a pair of pants, and several inches of skin. And I wasn't responsible for it being there and no one paid me to remove it.

From: t-roy
03-May-18

t-roy's embedded Photo
t-roy's embedded Photo
What I want to know is...who or what is liable in this situation?!!

My buddy took this pic a couple of days after the huge fires in Oklahoma had subsided a little bit. A day or 2 after they had gotten control of the fires in his area, he looks to the west of his place a couple of miles and sees the sky lit up again, and the smoke rolling. He hauled a$$ over to find the volunteer fire dept., already there, hard at work putting out a fire that was burning up a bunch of taller CRP grass that he was planning on baling, due to the drought in his area.

Fortunately, the winds were mild, and they got the fire out quickly. Upon investigation, they determined that the cause of the fire was this hawk that had landed on top of a power pole and had somehow shorted out across the wires. He hung up there long enough to catch fire and then dropped to the ground, catching the grass on fire.

Who’s responsible for this calamity?! The feds for placing raptors off limits or for providing the financial incentives to entice the landowner to enroll this potential fire hazard CRP grass planting? The landowner for being greedy enough to take said funds? The power company for not putting barriers on the thousands of power line poles scattered across the plains? Or possibly all of the homeowners down the line, hooked up to the power grid? I’m sure I’m leaving some other guilty parties out of the mix somewhere! Personally, I place most of the blame on the hawk.

From: TD
04-May-18
Wow. WRT the fire..... I'd blame it on stuff happens..... what are you going to do? Deny folks power? Get rid of hawks? At some point it still comes down to being in the wrong place at the wrong time and maybe doing the wrong thing. That bull had likely jumped that very fence dozens if not hundreds of times in his life..... either tired, old or just a bit lazy and he tripped up....

Ziek is also spot on. On our farm in CA we took down miles and miles of fence after we quit running any cattle. Some places it was harder to remove than it was to put in. Only thing worse was getting equipment snagged in the old fencing.... made for a bad day. That;s why we removed it. Some of that old abandoned fencing..... I'll give most of it a break.... plenty of folks that left it, a good chance they lost everything, fences weren't on the screen....

"Net" LOL!, "net" was always hammered into me from my Dad. He was one of but a few successful farmers in the area. I had just start running the wheat combine and he had some wonderful fields.... irrigated prime stuff and high yields. Adjustment to the combine were critical. Now computers control the adjustment with sensors that have exact counts of losses. But back then it was ALL manual. (And I might add... no cabs.... it was a hot, nasty dirty job.) Check, adjust, recheck.... There is always some loss out the back but one time he made me stop and took me over what I had just harvested. Showing me all the grain on the ground, he pointed out to me that ALL that grain had been already paid for. The land, seed, equipment, fuel, fertilizer and water..... all paid for already. That on the ground was all "net". Our profit. Right out of our pocket, like it was in your hand and you just threw it away. Never forgot the lesson. An economic lesson on a real world classroom. About when I was feeling bad about it, he pointed out the loss on the ground wasn't bad.... likely better than most... but could be a bit better and make an adjustment to the blowers..... =D

Hijack over....

Did I mention combines are not barb wire friendly either? Lots of yelling and swearing.....

From: 1boonr
04-May-18
Invisible fence is the answer. Put a collar on all your livestock. Check with ziek first though to make sure it’s ok to keep livestock on your ranch.

From: 12yards
04-May-18
Who was there first, the elk or the rancher?

From: Ucsdryder
04-May-18
12 yards what’s your argument? Sounds like you might want to sign over your deed to the Native Americans right now. Haha

From: TrapperKayak
04-May-18
Its the hawk's fault. And he paid the price. :^) There, happy now?

From: Ziek
04-May-18
Actually, It's a design flaw in the power line. One that has been addressed in most newer installations.

From: Boreal
04-May-18
That rancher was there before that elk.

From: LINK
04-May-18
Ziek, you deal with power lines much? In a former life I worked for the same power company or neighboring company that takes care of the line that T-Roy posted. 7200 volt power line the ground wire goes to the top of the pole, less than a foot from the center phase. It’s that way all across Oklahoma. On 14400 volt the ground wire stops at the neutral. Even so on transformer and lightning arrestor banks there are grounds near hot wires all over. I don’t know how it is in CO but in OK it’s everywhere and I’d imagine it’s the same. I’ve seen bobcats fried, snakes dropped by birds go phase to phase, raccoons you name it. Most birds are cleared by a line breaker that resets and you don’t know about them but I bet there are more hawk fatalities to power lines than die of natural causes, lol.

From: 1boonr
04-May-18
12yards- based on your logic we better be gettin all them wolves back also.

From: TrapperKayak
07-May-18
12yards, Judging by its condition, the fence was there before the elk or the rancher. Or the start of the 20th century even.

From: TrapperKayak
07-May-18
12yards, Judging by its condition, the fence was there before the elk or the rancher. Or the start of the 20th century even.

  • Sitka Gear