No archery!
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Ursman 13-May-18
bowbender77 13-May-18
Paul@thefort 13-May-18
Bowboy 13-May-18
JTV 13-May-18
EF Hutton 13-May-18
JTV 13-May-18
drycreek 13-May-18
Shawn 13-May-18
drycreek 13-May-18
cnelk 13-May-18
PushCoArcher 13-May-18
Proline 13-May-18
Trial153 13-May-18
Trial153 13-May-18
drycreek 13-May-18
Shawn 13-May-18
PECO 13-May-18
jjs 13-May-18
lewis 13-May-18
drycreek 13-May-18
lewis 13-May-18
Corn bore 13-May-18
Corn bore 13-May-18
IdyllwildArcher 13-May-18
PushCoArcher 13-May-18
WV Mountaineer 13-May-18
Backpack Hunter 13-May-18
Ben 13-May-18
Ben 13-May-18
RutnStrut 13-May-18
12yards 14-May-18
JusPassin 14-May-18
COHOYTHUNTER 14-May-18
grubby 14-May-18
Mpdh 14-May-18
Jethro 14-May-18
TreeWalker 14-May-18
LBshooter 14-May-18
Lost Arra 14-May-18
Beav 14-May-18
JayG@work 14-May-18
Bob H in NH 14-May-18
Trial153 14-May-18
JusPassin 14-May-18
TD 14-May-18
M.Pauls 14-May-18
Missouribreaks 14-May-18
RutnStrut 14-May-18
Z Barebow 14-May-18
Beav 14-May-18
x-man 14-May-18
Ollie 14-May-18
Mt. man 14-May-18
lewis 14-May-18
BOX CALL 14-May-18
Ned 14-May-18
Boreal 14-May-18
tobywon 14-May-18
JB 14-May-18
RutnStrut 14-May-18
Wood 15-May-18
Tonybear61 15-May-18
Pigsticker 15-May-18
12yards 15-May-18
Pintail 16-May-18
COHOYTHUNTER 16-May-18
Bake 16-May-18
Pigsticker 16-May-18
BigRed 16-May-18
Rut Nut 16-May-18
BagginBigguns 16-May-18
PushCoArcher 16-May-18
BigRed 16-May-18
TrapperKayak 16-May-18
Rut Nut 16-May-18
BagginBigguns 16-May-18
buc i 313 16-May-18
12yards 16-May-18
Rut Nut 16-May-18
petedrummond 16-May-18
oldgoat 17-May-18
Rut Nut 17-May-18
TrapperKayak 17-May-18
standswittaknife 17-May-18
drycreek 17-May-18
TrapperKayak 17-May-18
TrapperKayak 17-May-18
lv2bohunt 17-May-18
lewis 17-May-18
Rut Nut 17-May-18
drycreek 17-May-18
x-man 17-May-18
TrapperKayak 17-May-18
WV Mountaineer 17-May-18
12yards 17-May-18
WV Mountaineer 17-May-18
x-man 17-May-18
Pigsticker 17-May-18
lewis 17-May-18
drycreek 17-May-18
Silverback 17-May-18
x-man 18-May-18
buc i 313 18-May-18
pdk25 18-May-18
WV Mountaineer 18-May-18
From: Ursman
13-May-18
No archery or rifle teams in NewYork state if a state legislator has her way. She introduced such a bill recently. Will football, baseball or even badminton be next. Oh yea, she is a Democrat!

From: bowbender77
13-May-18
A Democrat ? Surprise surprise !

From: Paul@thefort
13-May-18
what does that mean, No archery or rifle teams?

From: Bowboy
13-May-18

Bowboy's Link
This article will explain it.

From: JTV
13-May-18
little democrats vote for Big democrats... Democrats are a distinct threat to the 2A and personal protection .... there is no such thing as a "good Democrat" ...

From: EF Hutton
13-May-18
That is a poison link. It gives you an unwanted congrats and a spinning wheel

From: JTV
13-May-18
I have no problems with the link .. you have a virus ...

From: drycreek
13-May-18
Ok, get a firm grip gents, but I see nothing wrong with that. IF, big IF, they'll take all sports out of school. I know most of you are gonna have a conniption but I have always believed if you want a youth football, baseball, soccer, (ad finitum) team in your town, get in your hind pocket and pay for it. Stop taxing me to pay for all the buses, fuel, uniforms, stadiums, etc. and pay the teachers a good wage to teach your kids what they need to know to succeed in life.

Ok, y'all can get the torches and pitchforks now.......

From: Shawn
13-May-18
drycreek very narrow minded!! Sports teach kids way more than playing a game!! Shawn

From: drycreek
13-May-18
Shawn, it teaches them nothing that their parents couldn't teach them if they would take the time. And if you think that kids need sports, pay for it ! You wouldn't ask me to make your car payments, why tax me for something I care nothing about ? As it is, I'm paying taxes to a school district and a college. Our kid just graduated and I provided every dollar for his education. Our school spent nearly a million bucks on the football field a few years ago. What earthly benefit is that to the biggest majority of taxpayers ? If you want to play, then you aught to pay. I'd rather my tax dollars went to education.

From: cnelk
13-May-18
Drycreek

You're also paying taxes for your local fire department.

How big is your hose ? lol!

From: PushCoArcher
13-May-18
Drycreek I tend to agree with you and while I agree sports can teach valuable life lessons it can also be a negative. I played football in high school with a guy that was functionality illiterate he was a "star player" so the coach made sure he passed his classes. He ended up getting a scholarship to OU to play football he flunked out his first semester.

From: Proline
13-May-18
Wow. Drycreek you are out there. Hope there aren't many more you like you for the kids sake.

From: Trial153
13-May-18
Don I agree with you. Take it a step further. Why are people that don’t have children in schools paying the same tax rates as someone that does? What about renters who pay no school tax that have several children in school? Maybe they should be paying for it as well. Another example, those of us that choose to send our children to private school pay tuition and then school tax on top for other children’s education. You don’t even want to know the cost of that proposition in a state like NY. There is are numerous examples. That said there is value in providing public education for everyone and the expense should shared as the befits are shared by everyone however the rate should be commensurate with the use.

From: Trial153
13-May-18
In regards to this bill, my understanding is that it hasn’t even garnered a co sponsor. And in the unlikely event that it does, it is unlikely to make it to floor. Furthermore the special elections that just took place in ny were are being hailed as a disappointment to democratic candidates in any districts that was contested, meaning that a republican was runnning with a even semi legitimate chance of being elected. So with that in mind this bill has almost no chance of seeing day light never mind passing.

From: drycreek
13-May-18
cnelk, you're right, and I also donate to the volunteer fire department since I live in the country. See, money where my mouth is. My stance is not because I'm a cheapskate, it's because I see no tangible benefit from sports programs to the average taxpayer. If you like sports, it's great. Not everybody likes sports. I'll bet a hundred dollar bill if taxpayers had the option to "opt out" of any monies going toward sports, band, etc. you'd be surprised how many would. I knew full well that lots of you would think I'm crazy, but that's ok. I think people who live and breath a football game are crazy. See, it all evens out in the end. :-)

From: Shawn
13-May-18
Hard for a parent to teach things that sports teach kids, so many in fact I would have trouble naming them all!! I really hope there are not many with the mindset of a few on here who have posted. I pay taxes they cover everything involved in going to school, busing, salaries, sports, band, on and on and on!! I am glad to pay for all of those things that make a well rounded young person! Shawn

From: PECO
13-May-18
If you like HS football and paying high taxes for it, move to Texas. Their school taxes are crazy high and many of their HS football stadiums rival other states college football stadiums. The education of our future should not be the burden of homeowners, everyone should contribute. No more property taxes, instead stick it to the tourist.

From: jjs
13-May-18
One of the fastest growing high school sport is trap shooting here in Mn. Sporting clays are increasing with the youth also, liberalism is really mental disorder.

From: lewis
13-May-18
I generally stay out of bs like this but not this one look how many kids would not be able to go to college without sports.Sure all wouldn’t graduate but a bunch will. I know a bunch of folks back in the sixties that would not have attended all of high school if not for sports.Most of them became very good tax paying citizens some of them excelled and became doctors.I guess if you are the last one picked every time you might hate sports.Lewis

From: drycreek
13-May-18
lewis, lewis, lewis. Last one picked huh ? Laughable ! I was always taller and bigger than my classmates and coaches pleaded with me to play football. When I wouldn't (because I had rather be in the woods or on the creek bank), I was treated like a second class citizen by those coaches because I wouldn't play their game. I played baseball, and we all furnished our own gloves, bats, balls etc. because at that time baseball wasn't big in schools. I played dodge ball and excelled.I loved that game ! Not bragging, just stating facts. I played football in PE and was ALWAYS the first choice to keep the quarterback's ass in the game, because I made sure nobody got to him. I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now, but, again, if you like it, you pay for it and let my tax money go to education.

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

From: lewis
13-May-18
You will not change my mind nor will I change yours Lewis

From: Corn bore
13-May-18
With dryceek here. See busses in chamberlain SD ,one from Sioux Falls going west, one from Rapid City going east to play "games" and me with no children and no experience playing these games, but WTF I get to pay property taxes to pay for it. You want your kid to experience "sports" you pay for it. Why do I need to pay for population growth in this day and age when there are like 7 billion people and growing. Izzak walton league sayes about 1.5 billion people are sustainable for planet earth??? Is it good for these kids??? At best maybe some end up stuck up a holes some learn a lesson on how to live life, no different than kids that don't play sports.

From: Corn bore
13-May-18
Oh and my favorite is when I own " hunting/recreational property" in a county where I don't live or get to vote, I still get to pay their whore house high property taxes with zero respect from law enforcement or any govt. angency in order to support and improve the the life of their children. Once again not my kids!!! /

13-May-18
I didn't play HS sports because my parents wouldn't let me. What'd I gain/lose? Two intact knees and no traumatic brain injuries. I'm a pretty well-off, well-adjusted, and successful adult.

If I had a nickle for every time I treated a guy who told me, "yeah, this knee is shot, 20 years ago I had a HS football injury..."

From: PushCoArcher
13-May-18
Worse then the enormous physical strain these kids are put under is the pressure put on them by adults. I played football from 4th grade to 12th the first few years were a lot of fun nobody cared who won then slowly but surely the adults began sucking the fun out of it. By 10th grade all the fun was gone I hated football (still do today) and several of my teammates felt the same but most of us stayed due to pressure by parents, coaches, teammates, etc. I've been in a locker room were a grown man cussed and shouted at a bunch of us kids because we lost a game. All that physical and mental stress put on to kid's for what a silly game.

13-May-18
Don and James X 10!!!!!!!! I played plenty of sports too. I just don't get why it is everyone's responsibility to fund sports for a small percentage of kids. I don't get why 85% of my county property taxes go to the school board. Saying I don't agree with it doesn't mean i don't like kids and sports either. I have sweated, bled, won, cried, been carried off the field on a stretcher and, on the shoulders of my teammates. I know none of that got me through school. I do cherish some of the lessons I learned while doing it. I just don't see why it is a tax payers responsibility unless they have kids in public school.

God Bless men

13-May-18
Taxation is theft.....pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.

From: Ben
13-May-18
The worst part to me is the salaries we are paying to the liberal teachers for pumping liberal crap into our kids minds. My 6 year old grandson has came home with all the ideas that fish have feelings, we shouldn't harm animals by hunting and he was very upset last time he came down to our farm when we visited a neighbor cutting down a tree and he said his teacher said we must save all trees in order to breath!

From: Ben
13-May-18
By the way I have explained all the reality on these subjects to him. Unfortunately he goes to school 5 days a week and only visits Papa every few weeks.

From: RutnStrut
13-May-18
Why stop at sports? There are many things that our tax money goes to that we may not "use" or may not directly affect us.

From: 12yards
14-May-18
As a guy who has to pay for my kid's hockey seasons, I know that sports would be gone in a hurry if drycreek had his way. It's expensive as hell. And if sports were still around, it would be a rich family's game.

From: JusPassin
14-May-18
Gotta agree with Drycreek x10. I'm paying nearly $2000 a year to the school district. Have no kids or grand kids in it. What do I get for it, wide screen TV's in the locker rooms so they can watch their game videos. Total BS.

From: COHOYTHUNTER
14-May-18
This is a hot button for me for sure.. I played organized team sports my whole life. I can tell you for a fact that there are things you learn in that environment that cannot be learned elsewhere. Teamwork, motivation, self drive, grit, had work,determination, and how your indivdual job on a team can help the whole team, ect. In my opinion, these are important life lessons that cannot be taught in a classroom alone. For some of these students, such as myself, I was afforded an athetic college scholarship, college may not have been an option without sports. In high school and college I learned more life lessons that have helped me than I ever learned in a classroom... Getting a great education is fundamental, that is only aspect of personal growth.. when I played sports, we were responsible for things like cleats, gloves, etc. But I believe having public funded uniforms and decent feilds to play should be paid for my schools. After all, these sports teams do generate some revenue through ticket sales and concessions, but more importantly what these sports provide through learned traits is more important to the community as a whole.. just my two cents...

From: grubby
14-May-18
I don't believe our school pays a dime on the trap club. I believe its $350 per student. They also sell raffle tickets to raise money. I'm sure there is some cost incurred by the school but its not much.

From: Mpdh
14-May-18
Would the fire department exist if the only funds they had were from donations like yours drycreek?

From: Jethro
14-May-18
We hear bitching and moaning almost everyday how youth are losing opportunity to enjoy the outdoors and hunting is becoming a rich mans game. But we want to take sports away from kids and make it so you can play if you can afford it.

I am glad my school taxes have allowed kids today to have the same opportunities I did. I hate to even see cuts to liberal arts and I have/had not interest in those. My school taxes are lower today then they were 3 years ago.

From: TreeWalker
14-May-18
I was a good athlete in a family of good athletes. I played in impromtu sandlot baseball and football games from time could swing a bat or toss a football. Being part of a sports team taught me lessons and I learned skills.

I learned more relevant skills to help me as an adult from being editor of the school newspaper than any seasonal sport team, though. Negotiating to get interviews, articles written and reviewed, dealing with personalities, hustling for advertising from local companies, etc.

I learned skills from Scouts.

I support PE classes being used for teaching sports. Learn the rules and the proper technique so less risk of injuries. No need for full speed tackle football. Heck, more than a handful of NFL stars say they would not let their sons play tackle as young kids.

Not a supporter of seasonal sports within the school. Distracts from classroom focus on game day, injuries happen with some instantly tragic and others only surfacing decades later, uses up funds at a time schools are challenged to provide classroom supplies for teachers, etc.

Sports injured several teammates a year. Here, have a pain pill. Suck it up and we really need you for the next game. Opiods for the win. Here, consume 5000 calories so can bulk up to play on the line and am sorta sorry about your knees and you carrying all that unhealthy weight into adulthood. Go team.

Schools should focus on educating students to obtain the skills to become functioning adults. Rather than pay for bus trips that pull students out of class several afternoons a year the school should invest in classrooms and technology access and tutoring are providing nutrition for poorer kids, especially through middle school years. A hungry kid is less likely to learn. Handing them a basketball does not change that.

From: LBshooter
14-May-18
It's real simple, that liberal congresswoman is a communist. brainwashing kids at the earliest age possible. Team sports teach many valuable lessons and if you can't see that then there is no explaining it. Not all kids are physical enough for football, soccer, basketball etc... shooting sports allow just about anyone to participate, and the kids are better off for it. I doubt that this communist will get her way but if she does it's the voters fault for keep this whack job in office, period.

From: Lost Arra
14-May-18
The move by the legislator is a political/publicity stunt and nothing more.

From: Beav
14-May-18
I believe all extracurricular activities in schools provide a great learning opportunity for kids and promotes discipline, team work, and responsibility. In this day and age a lot of these kids have very little structure at home and I have experienced first hand how sports has helped kids turn their entire lives around. I work as a probation officer and was also a varsity basketball coach for 16 years so I have saw the benefits first hand.

From: JayG@work
14-May-18
I pay some of the highest property taxes in the nation, in January, then I get the opportunity to be raked over the coals by the schools in Sep. My school taxes are higher than my property taxes. I have no kids at home, and haven't for 6 years.. I was afforded the opportunity to pay for a multi million dollar turf field a couple years ago.... That was nice. IMO, if you want to play sports, you should pay for your sports.

From: Bob H in NH
14-May-18
Yes sports can, and do, teach great life lessons, help develop young into adults and provide a path to college for some.

But in a world where the ONLY way to fund them in schools is taxes, where do you draw the line? Sports are NOT played be the majority of students (I would think), they are played by the athletes that make the teams, there are limits. When it comes to college, that's an even smaller number. It may be time to look at moving the sports budget to books, teachers etc. And introducing some level of pay to play?

Also not all sports are equal when it comes to funding. Football is about as expensive as it gets, with sports like track, soccer etc. on the other end.

From: Trial153
14-May-18
Amen Jay.

From: JusPassin
14-May-18
It's also pretty ridiculous to believe that you can't become a productive member of society without having been in a sports program. Dumb actually.

From: TD
14-May-18
Geez..... summa you guys act like you never got hot'n heavy with a cheerleader......... oh, ok, nevermind.......... =D

From: M.Pauls
14-May-18
Obviously a complicated issue. Whenever we have a crisis like a school shooting, there seems to be a thread on here and a common theme is the lack of family and/or fathers in society. I tend to agree with this, along with God being removed. It's happening here in Canada faster than in the US. I don't think sports are bad. A lot of great things come from sports. But what I do see is a trend of treating sports like the new religion and or parent. I bet sports would be one of the leading reasons for "functioning" families, not spending time with each other. We are in the heat of raising 3 children and it amazes me to see how many of our friends are running 2 or 3 different directions, 4 out of 5 nights of the week and then on weekends. Absolutely crazy. My son says to me "Dad I wanna play hockey" so I'll say "sure son lets load up and drive to the rink and town, and lets play some hockey." I see it slipping into one more area where society will raise the children instead of parents. School was first.

14-May-18
Agree with jusPassin.

From: RutnStrut
14-May-18
So for those tight wads that whine about paying taxes for school activities. Why cut out only sports? Hell band offers nothing practical, gone. Chess club, math club, or any extra curricular activities are not needed, axe them. For that matter why do we have to feed these damn kids while they are at school? They can bring their own food. School should only be 8 hours of pure forced brainwash er I mean learning. I think some of you live in the wrong country.

From: Z Barebow
14-May-18
Come on RutnStrut. I am sure those posters can find a one room school house somewhere their kids/grandkids can attend. I saw Laura Ingalls attend one.

From: Beav
14-May-18
JusPassin, I did not see where one post stated you couldn't be a productive member of society without being involved in a sports program. I am just saying sports helps kids in a lot of areas and especially those kids that lack structure at home. Those are the exact kids that would be effected most if they had to pay everything to participate in sports.

From: x-man
14-May-18
Each school district decides how much to spend on sports as a school budget. If you don't like it where you live... either move, or put yourself on the ballot and become a school board member.

We pay taxes even when our children are done with school so the next generation of kids will have the same or better opportunities that our kids enjoyed. The same way other tax payers before us paved the way for our kids opportunities. Pay it forward.

From: Ollie
14-May-18
The bill makes it very clear that it is targeting shooting sports. Quite a bit different from a bill that would propose to eliminate all sports in the interest of reducing tax burden on those paying the bill. Clearly 100% liberal politics involved. Bill should be opposed for that reason alone regardless of how you feel about tax dollars being used to support school sports. That is a separate issue.

From: Mt. man
14-May-18
IF you play sports YOU DEFINETLY PAY! Some on here are completely clueless. There is a big cost with every sport anymore and the benefits of learning teamwork are priceless. I agree LB shooter and x-man. The subject of this thread and many of the comments are so ignorant it again reminds me how lucky I am not to live anywhere but a big RED state!

From: lewis
14-May-18
RutN strut,Beav,xman,Ollie Mt man, x10 I too live in 2 Red states thank God Lewis

From: BOX CALL
14-May-18
Our school district has pay to play,even marching band.so if a student plays two or three sports,they pay several times.our district doesn't have any shooting sports except the ROTC air rifle team.would they be targeted too.

From: Ned
14-May-18
Sticking with the original post here, the person trying to ban shooting sports in schools is doing it for the wrong reasons, there are no good reasons to ban shooting sports, but to ban shooting sports for political purposes is just demented. The rest of these posts about sports in school, and who pays for it, and is it worth it to the taxpayers, etc ....... is just too broad a subject to draw any conclusions from. On a personal note, I've played darn near most American sports there are to play, some organized and some not, but I've played darn near most sports in one form or another, and to me it's not so much the sport or activity that helped me, but the coach or mentor, or instructor that encouraged me along the way, and let me say, not very many of them were very encouraging LOL. Organized sports, and competition had more of a negative influence on me than a positive one. It can be very demoralizing when winning a game is more important than life itself. The biggest, most positive influential person I ever met was my drill instructor in the Army, and yes, a large portion of our taxes definitely go toward national defense, I wish he was our football coach in high school, we may have actually won a game.

From: Boreal
14-May-18
Organized sports can kids teach teamwork, goal setting, focus, etc.

What does it teach the kids who get cut?

From: tobywon
14-May-18
Shooting sports and archery are in the Olympics. This should be a major point made to knock this whack job down. You know those biathlon competitors and Korean archers are a rough bunch:)

From: JB
14-May-18
That life isn’t going to get handed to them. Maybe if they worked a little harder they wouldn’t get cut. Maybe they aren’t talented enough. There are going to be situations in life where they aren’t going to make the cut. What happens when they don’t get a job after an interview. Maybe getting cut will teach them to handle a negative situation.

From: RutnStrut
14-May-18
"What does it teach the kids who get cut?"

That everything in life doesn't always go how you wish it would. That there will always be others better than you, so suck it up and deal. That you probably could have worked harder at it. That just because your Mommy told you, you can be anything you want, that's not true. There are many could lessons to not making the team. That is if one takes an introspective look at themselves after such a thing happens.

From: Wood
15-May-18
Should everyone get to vote on bond issues that will raise property taxes though some don't own property? Should I have to pay for teachers' wages that are teaching lies and disgusting values? Should I have to pay for road construction/maintenance if I walk everywhere? Should only criminals have to pay for cops and prisons?

From: Tonybear61
15-May-18
"One of the fastest growing high school sport is trap shooting here in Mn. Sporting clays are increasing with the youth also, liberalism is really mental disorder." Yes it is.

However placing a kid on steroids, significant diet plans, and dieretics to make weight for wrestling , back in the game after a serious concussion or injury to "take one for the team" is a mental disorder too. Yes there are rules in place and yes I have seen some of my sibling's kids, neighbors coaches skirt the rules. My kid's former baby sitter could not get into college had a hard time graduating because of a head injury (from friggin football). That bid for college on a scholarship gone with the injury.

Foot ball as one example has about 3,300 serious injuries (some resulting in death ) per 100,000 participants. Yet no one is proposing to ban it, we build stadiums left and right with public funding. Shooting sports injuries are basically not statistically significant (0.3-1 injuries per 100,000 participants). No fatalities that I have ever heard of. The injuries reported are from moving archery bales, climbing in and out of the tap house, slips and falls on the range and poking someone behind you in the eye while pulling arrows. Ping pong injury rate is many, many times higher than the shooting sports...

From: Pigsticker
15-May-18
I see some real resentment here. Some of you must have sat on the bench or worse got cut. For those that don’t know what you learn from being cut need to go read about Michael Jordan being cut. All of a sudden everyone is into academia after many wasted an opportunity at an education. You can be well adjusted and not play sports and you can be an academic all American. It’s your choice! No wonder that we are so politically divided in these times. Good thing they are only talking shooting sports since maybe we can see it for what it is. We need more money for the arts so quit bitching about high taxes. Nine out of the top ten highest property taxed states are Democratic strongholds. Move if you don’t like it or vote for a fiscal conservative. It takes warriors to defend a country so where are you going develop our next heroes? Math lab or better yet the thespian club. It has been proven that higher wages do not increase long term performance. I have five teachers in my family and none of them are starving. Get rid of tenure and the NEA if you want to improve the education system. Oh by the way the National high school weight program is the only approved weight loss plan by the Department of Agriculture. So if your kid is taking diuretics he is not following the plan.

This thread has been a true disappointment.

From: 12yards
15-May-18
Why even have schools at all. It's just a big babysitter anyways right? Parents should educate their own kids. Why should I pay for someone else's kids education?

From: Pintail
16-May-18
This thread is so much like our society. You have people who have a sense of community with a vison of the future and then you have the self serving " what's in it for me crowd." If the only thing you see when kids compete on a playing field is the very sport that is played you have missed the big picture. Like it or not every tax payer has stock in tomorrow's future. Its a lot like election day, its raining and the wrong guy is going to win anyway, I'll stay home.....

From: COHOYTHUNTER
16-May-18
Well said Pintail!

From: Bake
16-May-18
I think a lot of people are misunderstanding some of the posters like Drycreek. I don't mean to speak for him or others, but I imagine their big gripe is the AMOUNT spent on those sports.

I got no problem with sports in schools. What I do have a problem with is the excessiveness of some of it. And I'm glad I live rural where we don't have these issues. I have a problem if the Coaches make 2-3 times more than teachers, and do nothing but coach. I have a problem with building a $10 million football stadium that rivals a college's.

I have no issues with a reasonable amount spent on sports. I have no issues with the way our rural school pays a coach some extra pay to coach along with regular teaching duties.

And before you all claim I'm a bitter person that must have sucked at sports. . . . I'm actually a little bitter that I played. I might not limp today and have to stand up in stages. I was a 3 sport letterman for 4 years, and probably could have played 2nd/3rd string at some small junior college if I had desired.

I've tried and tried to think of something I learned playing football/basketball/baseball. . . . I really can't think of anything that I couldn't have learned by hunting/fishing more, or working an afterschool job which I never had time to do with sports.

If my daughter wants to play sports someday, then I'm okay with that, and I'll go to every game. If she doesn't, I'm okay with that too. I know I'm not going to let her sit at home after school every day. She'll have to do something. Sports, after-school job, piano, guitar, shooting, hunting. . .something. If she would study music and/or shooting type sports, I think she would find a lot more happiness in those things in later life than memories of some basketball/softball game that means absolutely nothing.

From: Pigsticker
16-May-18
Bake, I find it hard that a smart guy like yourself can’t think of anything that you learned from sports. What about teamwork, we before I, self discipline, leadership, and sportsmanship?

From: BigRed
16-May-18
Yep... What Pintail said.

From: Rut Nut
16-May-18
Pintail nailed it!

What do school sports do for you? Well, when I started playing organized sports in 9th grade I was a tall, lanky awkward and painfully shy teenager. I was "athletic" but did not have a lot of natural ability. Just barely lettered in Track as a freshman. But with 4 years of hard work and determination, became one of the best hurdlers in the state. Also played basketball for 2 years and ran cross country 4 yrs to stay in shape for Track. What did it teach me? Really improved my self-confidence and self-esteem. Taught me hard work, determination and goal setting will not only pay off in sports, but in LIFE! Taught me probably even more from my "failures" or challenges than it did from my accomplishments. Taught me to never give up, find a way to succeed and it is more important to try and fail, than to never try in the first place. Helped me get into a college that I might not have been accepted to had I not been an athlete. And also taught me time management skills. One of the best decisions I ever made in my life was to get involved in organized school sports.

But I admit it is not for EVERYONE! But for a LOT of folks it can make a HUGE difference in their lives!

Let me ask you this..................................would you rather have kids play sports or hang out at the mall, or at home in their rooms surfing the internet or out causing trouble with their friends and or gangs???!!!

16-May-18
I'll finish your statement for you BigRed: What Pintail said... is ironic.

The notion that the "what's in it for me crowd" consists of those who simply don't want to pay for the hobbies of other people's kids, rather than those who are demanding that non-participants contribute, is irrational and exactly the opposite of reality.

From: PushCoArcher
16-May-18
Well said Bake I played sports my entire childhood until the end of high school and can also not think of anything I learned from sports that couldn't have been learned else where.

From: BigRed
16-May-18
No Baggin... They're not hobbies, but life lessons. Sorry you don't understand the difference.

From: TrapperKayak
16-May-18
Football is causing far more physical harm and injury to young people that any shooting sports ever will. Even if someone goes ballistic with 'shooting sports equipment'. Get rid of football, promote more baseball and skill sports and shooting sports for the overall well being of our school aged youth. Sports teaches you competitiveness and good 'sportsmanship', learning that losing is not anything to be ashamed of, but it helps you to strive to win, and then go about doing so in a respectable manner. It creates friendships, comraderie, and respect for others. Those of you knocking competitive sports I'd wager never were actively involved in them.

From: Rut Nut
16-May-18
Well said Trapper! I agree that some sports could be detrimental like Football and even gymnastics. I would not want my kids playing either one competitively, BUT if someone else wants to participate I would not argue with them. And in fact I would support them and gladly have part of my taxes go towards their sport. Much rather see my $$ go to that, than to pay for jail, food stamps and other public assistance when they fail to become a productive member of society!

16-May-18
BigRed:

Nobody here is arguing that sports are of zero value or that there's nothing to be learned from them. What IS being argued is that sports are not a necessary means to teach these lessons; they can be learned through other more constructive (and often less destructive) ways.

Nevertheless, by all means do whatever you want. Put your kids in every last sport you can squeeze into their (and your) schedule. But pay for it yourself.

From: buc i 313
16-May-18
IMHO,

The very best investment we can make for each of us, for our country is the investment in our children and their education. Be it through tax or out of pocket. We owe it to ourselves, our parents and to future generations to do so. We should never be guided by greed, on being short sighted or from a lack of vision.

Believe it or not, one of "them" could be the next Einstein !

LOL,

When it come's to the ignorance of elected official's to propose bone headed bill's.

I cannot / do not find a monopoly by either party.

:^}

From: 12yards
16-May-18
My job requires brains and brawn. I'll take a former athlete any day as a fellow employee.

From: Rut Nut
16-May-18
This thread reminded me of a college team mate. He was much younger than me, and we were in different events, so I didn't Know him very well. One day I was talking to the coach and he told me about him.

He was from the inner city and lost his mother when he was in Jr. High.( drug overdose) His freshman year in H. S. his dad went away to jail for drug dealing. He ended up transferring to a boarding high school for orphans/under privileged youth and excelled in Track and Field. He got a college scholarship, graduated and ended up getting a job as a H.S. guidance counselor and track coach. Last I heard he was happily married and had 2 kids.

I shudder to think where he would be today without high school sports!

From: petedrummond
16-May-18
And playing sports gets u the hot chicks.

From: oldgoat
17-May-18
I grew up in Odessa Texas, the town in the Friday Night Lights movie, kids at Permian were juicing back in the 70s, kids dad's were getting cash jobs and homes in the right school district to pad the deck at that school, their coach made more than the principal etc... Not sure what positive things that teaches kids, I also think it's a direct reflection of what we seen transpire with the NFL and the kneeling bullshit! I think it can be done right, but I don't think we do it right very often at all, and if they ended all the pro sports tomorrow, it wouldn't mean one bit of difference in my life!

From: Rut Nut
17-May-18
I graduated in 1983 in an avg size school distict in South Central Pa. Our stadium had no lights, so football was a Saturday afternoon thing. Only a few schools in the area had lights(larger schools in the "big" city ;-) Bleachers where steel frame with wooden seats/steps and 20+ yrs old(watch for splinters! ;-) The track that went around the natural grass field was cinders. Only 2 schools in our entire area had all-weather(synthetic) tracks. One in our county, and one in the next county. And NO schools in our area had "Astro-turf" back then!

From: TrapperKayak
17-May-18
Regarding the 'You pay for it' mentality, we pay $1000s in school taxes in NY state every year (you do that when you own property). We don't have kids, much less kids in school. I could say, "Why the heck am I paying for YOUR kids to go to school?" That is just a selfish way to say screw you, I should not be responsible for the way your kids turn out. We all have a societal obligation to help our kids excel, to propel our society into the future if we are going to be part of it. If not, go be a hermit in AK wilderness. Since you are part of it, you have an obligation to perpetuate wellness, and that is through education, both physical and mental, and spiritual (since God had largely been removed from schools, this is why we are seeing godlessness in them, in the form of school shootings for one), We need your money to educate our youth, and one other STRONG feeling I have is we need good educators as well, and PAY them well for teaching your kids to be the next doctors, etc. Teachers serve as coaches by volunteering their time, they deserve your moral and financial support. They are nearly as responsible for raising your kids well as you are. if not more. My wife was a teacher for 38 years and a darn good one, highly motivated and devoted in a Podunk town school, where all the kids loved her, and she remains in regular touch with many of them years later. Some of her kids wound up in ivy league schools, took and excelled in sports, etc., now dr.s, heli-nurses, you name it. Its your responsibility: it takes your money to make this happen. God forbid if it never did. Shooting sports must remain or increase in schools to promote safety and mental stability, or the craziness and the shootings will increase without it. You teach responsibility and respect, and you solve the problem. You don't, and you have a problem.

17-May-18
Pintail nailed it. The other crowd are simply the "Get off my lawn" crowd.

From: drycreek
17-May-18
I agree that sports teaches teamwork. Like when one spoiled bastard takes a knee the rest do too. Now there is something to aspire too if you’re a school football player.....

From: TrapperKayak
17-May-18
Regarding the 'You pay for it' mentality, we pay $1000s in school taxes in NY state every year (you do that when you own property). We don't have kids, much less kids in school. I could say, "Why the heck am I paying for YOUR kids to go to school?" That is just a selfish way to say screw you, I should not be responsible for the way your kids turn out. We all have a societal obligation to help our kids excel, to propel our society into the future if we are going to be part of it. If not, go be a hermit in AK wilderness. Since you are part of it, you have an obligation to perpetuate wellness, and that is through education, both physical and mental, and spiritual (since God had largely been removed from schools, this is why we are seeing godlessness in them, in the form of school shootings for one), We need your money to educate our youth, and one other STRONG feeling I have is we need good educators as well, and PAY them well for teaching your kids to be the next doctors, etc. Teachers serve as coaches by volunteering their time, they deserve your moral and financial support. They are nearly as responsible for raising your kids well as you are. if not more. My wife was a teacher for 38 years and a darn good one, highly motivated and devoted in a Podunk town school, where all the kids loved her, and she remains in regular touch with many of them years later. Some of her kids wound up in ivy league schools, took and excelled in sports, etc., now dr.s, heli-nurses, you name it. Its your responsibility: it takes your money to make this happen. God forbid if it never did. Shooting sports must remain or increase in schools to promote safety and mental stability, or the craziness and the shootings will increase without it. You teach responsibility and respect, and you solve the problem. You don't, and you have a problem.

From: TrapperKayak
17-May-18
drycreek, 'respect' doesn't take a knee. Teach it, in all fields, including sports.

From: lv2bohunt
17-May-18
I think to the majority of folks, paying taxes that go to schools is a hot button because of the waste in administration costs. Administrators get paid too much, sports programs get an unequivocal amount of the money and because all of us have someone close to us reaping the benefits of that waste we won’t change it.

From: lewis
17-May-18
Kinda interesting a lot of these posts would be more fitting on websites like Cosmopolitan Good House Keeping maybe even People Magazine but on Bowsite it just seems weird.Can’t imagine schools without sports I do know they’re safe and going strong where I reside.Lewis

From: Rut Nut
17-May-18

Rut Nut's Link
From: petedrummond

16-May-18

And playing sports gets u the hot chicks.

LMBO! I just heard this song at lunchtime............................................... : )

From: drycreek
17-May-18
Trapper, I thought sports were supposed to teach that. Seems it's failed to do so.

And you misunderstand my post for the most part. I have no problem paying school taxes, but I don't want to pay for sports programs. It's pretty simple to me. My wife is the librarian at the local high school, so I have a little insight as to what goes on there. Do you think our school should have spent $800,000 on a football field while the teachers are underpaid and buying some of their own supplies for the classroom ? I don't ! And don't even bother suggesting involving the school board. They're all a bunch of football nuts and educating kids is down on their list.

From: x-man
17-May-18
drycreek,

Get yourself on the darn school board and do something about. Stop whining and do something.

From: TrapperKayak
17-May-18
Drycreek, no, absolutely not, about paying for fb field. Yes pay the teachers and, educators more, admin. less. But there are other sports besides football, like trap and archery. I am not putting down your state, but I do think football mentality there rules, as in many other states. Mine too. Football has run the show in sports for the most part. Our hs soccer had beans for attendance compared to fb. I think that stinks. And the spoiled brats that play it (some are) are a product of the money aspect that you are talking about. Stinks. But we are trying to promote shooting sports in this thread I think.

17-May-18
Whoa. Hold on there fella. You boys act like it’s a crime to suggest we prioritize school spending to best fit all agendas. Teachers under paid. School employees under paid. But, we got a good ball field. Plus a 1/35 of the school kids get a benefit from our budget appropriations. But, that’s all good as long as we turn out a leader every couple graduations.

Been plenty of leaders, people who bring others together, people who take the world by the horns ,that never played a sport in their life. It likely wasn’t the sport that teaches what you insinuate. It was the individual who was looking that found it.

I’m all for sports in school. As long as it’s fuvding and role is appropriate with what’s best for the school district and the education of the kids that attend public schooling there.

It doesn’t take huge amounts of money to obtain great things on the court or field either.

From: 12yards
17-May-18
Be interesting to see what these big high school football programs bring in for money in the form of ticket sales. How many programs are self supporting (or would be if they didn't have to share them with less popular sports).

17-May-18
Takes a lot of tickets sales, car washes, bake sales, and all around fundraising to pay for government allocated spending on school activities. The only problem with that scenario is that tax payers do that instead.

Football can’t be self sustaining. It’s all a dead cost. Tax payers pay for the field, the equipment, the coaches, the buses, the over night trips, the cheerleaders uniforms, their transportation, the referees, etc..... and the funds ticket sales generate gets lost in the system to be spent.

From: x-man
17-May-18
All of our local high school sports programs are self-supported. We share a stadium with the local small college. No tax-payer money in our school district goes to sports other than a small amount of coaches salaries.

Let me repeat myself again... If you don't like the situation where YOU live, either move, or get on the school board and do something about it.

From: Pigsticker
17-May-18
I keep hearing that teachers are under paid. Let me work for 38 weeks out of the year and still get a retirement and normally great health care. Nobody is lobbying for me or others occupations to get a raise. Fact, more money doesn’t guarantee better teachers. Do away with tenure if you want better teachers.

From: lewis
17-May-18
Hmm our booster club built the locker room aka field house bought the uniforms plus bonuses to the coaches plus thru donations funded our state and nationally ranked archery and trap and skeet team.yeah you could say we like sports archery is a sport isn’t it.Lewis

From: drycreek
17-May-18
Sounds like plan to me lewis. I think your booster club, and whoever else WANTS a ball team should contribute. I support education, not sports. My wife and I have sponsored scholarships in the past (that were open to any high school senior) and I'm not sorry we did, even though some of the recipients didn't even finish college. At least we put our money where we thought it would do some good.

x-man and lewis: Sounds like a plan to me ! That's just what I've been saying, folks who want sports need to pay for them. Keep up the good work !

From: Silverback
17-May-18
I always wondered why it is the taxpayers responsibility to buy buses to get the kids to school. Why isit not the parents responsibility to get their child to the school and back home?

From: x-man
18-May-18
My wife is a high school math teacher. She has two majors and two masters degrees. She works 42 weeks during the regular school year, 6 weeks during summer school. During the school year she spends an average of 10 hours a week correcting papers at home.

As a matter of public record anyone could ask and see that she makes $61K per year. The district pays $500 a month towards a healthcare plan that she has to take(cannot opt out). That healthcare plan costs $2200 per month! (1700 out of our pocket).

Please tell me another occupation where two masters pays less than $80K...

From: buc i 313
18-May-18
LOL

Back in the day, when I walked --- miles to school , UP HILL, BOTH WAY'S :^}

Teacher's for the overwhelming part were good / great teacher's. They belonged to their Union, had tenure and were respected as educator's. I cannot put my finger on the time or year when Teacher's, lost the respect of so many ? Perhaps, just perhaps it began when "Little Boy or Little Girl" were always in the right and would never lie, never could never be / do anything wrong. Therefore the Teacher is a bad person or a bad Teacher. The school they go to isn't a good school etc.

There is a problem, could it be a lack of vision or loss of respect for each other ? IJDK

When a school system or sports booster's see no problem raising up to and over a million dollars for a football field when the school doesn't have a library or the children must buy their school supplies (normal) or bring personal toilet tissue to school ?

Where are the / our priorities ?

We have always paid the way forward for Public Primary Education, K-12 in this country. This included PE and after school sports for a long time. Not so much now for the extra and after school programs require more funding than in the past. I do think the needs for today's basic education has more requirements than in my day so it may cost more than it used to.

Funding, I'll pay my share, just like I'll gladly pay my taxes to live in this country. Yes, the country I live in requires money to live here, to drive on a highway, to walk down a street, yes it even requires money to educate our children. Yes money to allow them to participate in sports.

I for one do believe there should be various boy's and girl's sport's in school's. This includes Archery, Shooting, Basketball, Baseball, Football, Lacrosse, Badminton, Tennis, Ping Pong, the Debate Team. Oh well you get the point.

All of this said, it should never be confused with a / some "boneheaded proposal" by some elected official !

As x-man said, get involved.

Contact your legislator, the sponsor of the bill, voice your displeasure, discuss the lack of the bill's merit's and / or it's shortcoming's and or lack of vision.

The best method IMO, is a written letter to each legislator, in addition to requesting a visit to meet with he or she to discuss the merits or lack thereof the Bill.

:^}

From: pdk25
18-May-18
I played sports extensively in high school, and it was a valuable learning experience, but it definitely was the minority of students who played sports, and I don't really think it should be funded by taxpayers. Hate all that you want. I also didn't agree with the increase in taxes to fund the school swimming pool in a district that I lived in while in Pennsylvania, but you don't really get much say in it. So I pretty much agree with drycreek. Archery shouldn't be singled out, and if the parents are willing to pay for the equipment and such, I see not reason that it shouldn't be kept. I just feel the same about all sports. I also have issues with physical education classes being mandatory to obtain a college degree, but that is another topic. The discussion regarding fire departments isn't really an apples to apples comparison.

18-May-18
x-man, if you share a stadium with a college, tax money paid for or, helped pay for that stadium unless the college is private. Salaries are tax funds. Transportation is tax funds. Say what you want. High school sports are not self sustaining nor, will they last without tax funding. ANY where.

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