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Alabama Spear Hunting
Alabama will pass a law this season that bans Spear Hunting for deer. Apparently the spear hunters in Alabama have had such an impact on the deer population that it has been banned as a weapon of choice. Maybe the deer population in Alabama can finally have a chance to rebound. The future sure looks bright.
I know which direction this thread will go. :)
Crap, gotta cancel my order for my Sitka loin cloth.
Sounds like someone is learning from the Alberta Bowhunters Association, which "spearheaded" the effort to have these tools banned here.
It's a huge problem. I hope they address the boomerang hunting of quail next.
When the board makes decisions with out expressing their reasoning, I'm always suspect of their intent. Nothing new for our CAB.
Don, did you see where they've decided NO deer urine attractant allowed after March 2019? Synthetic only. The Mississippi CWD incident has fueled hysteria.
You mean hunters won't get involved to save spear hunting ??
How about a sling and 3 smooth stones?
It's because Moultrie doesn't sell spears................
Does this include atlatls??
Joey, I did see that. Deer urine is also a big issue here. I believe it has more to do with the mouthwash companies losing too many customers to people like Tinks and such, and you no big money talks.
Good. It is a black eye for hunting and the average non hunter will never understand the "need" to spear a deer.
So killing a deer with a spear is not ok, how about just a knife?
Yes, it includes atlatls... Moultrie doesn't sell them either.
Discrimination plain and simple with this attack on spear chuckers.
If you are asking me Treeline, I say no.
Why don't we just use sledgehammers too? You could kill a deer with a sledgehammer too.
Bowfreak- why not include archaic methods like archery too? No need to use an arrow in this day and age...
Ignert sh--tuff, right there. The average non-hunter doesn't understand the need to kill anything, any way. Heck, some hunters don't understand the need to have archery(?) equipment hold their arrow back for them, either. Ban it!
Nobody, hunter or not, that knows of my spear-hunting attempts thought it was anything other than a more difficult way to hunt than most modern hunters do it. No bad feelings about it, no objections.
Figgers that "hunters" (yeah, in quotes!) would be the ones that equate it to "hammering" a deer.
The allowing of weapons like the spear is one of the things I loved about our system here. I never done it but it represented a sort of freedom. Figures though with the a##clowns we got making decisions now.
slowly step away from the crack pipe..........
Moultrie doesn't sell crack pipes either.
I don’t get it.
There should be limits to the use of higher technology that makes it unsportsmanlike, not limits to making it more difficult.
Hell, if rifles are legal to kill a deer, then any lesser weapon down to hands and teeth should be legal.
Dead is dead, no matter the tool used to get there.
Ghostbird posted, "It's because Moultrie doesn't sell spears................"
For those who don't know, this is tremendous ammunition to use against him. If the reasoning is to prevent or slow the spread of CWD, then, they must also ban all feeding. Feeding/baiting is probably one of the biggest factors in the spread, right behind pens and transporting live animals across state lines. BTW- TN also has that law.
We're the home of Howard Hill, Byron Ferguson, and pertinent to this discussion Gene Morris. Now you have a whole group of hunters that think 45# pound recurves are unethical spears are unethical and wonder if a .50 cal patched round balls are ethical at more than 50 yards. Soon as I get done with this crack pipe I'll go spear a hog cause it's still considered ethical here until the c.a.b. decides for me that it's not:)
EmbryO, south. Right quick I might add. BTW, who cares what the average non-hunter understands? This is just one more 'weapon of choice' taken from hunters, a clear step in the wrong direction in the big picture. Protest it.
Eddie Maxwell's Link
You are kidding yourself if you believe that non hunters accept spearing and stabbing animals with knives as easily as other methods, including archery.
And yes....there are many many non hunters that are totally accepting of hunting. If they didn't exist hunting would be illegal.
If any of you want to prove me wrong, get a copy of the Bowmar dude spearing that bear and show it to your non-hunting friends and watch them become overjoyed.
Who cares what the average non hunter thinks?
You better if you want to keep hunting.
The proposed rule change is not a law and it has not been finalized. It has already been contested under the procedures of the Alabama Administrative Procedures Act.
The proposed rules change announcement can be found at the attached link. The DCNR's attorney certified that the proposed rules changes are necessary for the public health and welfare after nearly two decades of allowing spears to be used for hunting deer.
How many thousands of deer are getting spear hunted each year?
Thanks Eddie. I read an article in the news paper that my Dad showed me and it read as if it was the Law. I'll try and get that article the next time I go to visit with him and I'll send it to you.
Arrowhead, when you open the link to read the announcement, be sure to keep scrolling down. There are large gaps and you'll miss the complete announcement if you aren't careful.
There are other changes besides the spear ban. Handguns for turkeys ban is being proposed as well. Crossbows for turkeys being allowed is there too.
Stricken language is removed from the current rule and underlined language is being added.
You can have my boomerang from my cold dead fingers. And keep your bloody hands off me dingaroo thingie
Looks to me like they're bundling the spear ban under the exclusion of handguns for turkey. THAT part actual makes a little sense regarding the "public health and welfare" wording.
How does banning hunting whitetail with a spear fall under that?
handguns for turkey's........that's a new one for me. I'd like to meet the guy that can spear one.
There's nothing proposed to allow hunting turkeys with a spear. The proposal is to ban hunting deer with a spear.
The change for turkeys is to ban the use of handguns for turkeys but allow crossbows.
Straight Arrow, hope you don't mid me using your post as an example..........
"handguns for turkey's........that's a new one for me." Hunters having been using handguns for turkeys for a long time, here in Alabama. I knew a few in the early 70's that were using Remington .221 Fireballs. One was a Game Warden. Not because they were inept with hunting them or calling them in close, but because it was legal and a different challenge. But times have changed and I can understand, somewhat, how using one now could affect "(public) health and welfare" regarding other hunters or guests on public areas.
"I'd like to meet the guy that can spear one." ....... I'm guessing you meant turkey, but since that's not an option I'll go with deer. See this is where ignorance comes in regarding many hunters and obviously some on our CAB. Hunters using spears aren't typically hunting from the ground wrt whitetail. I suppose technically one could, but the majority WOULD be from a treestand. The wording of the current regulation is what I think is causing the confusion. "Hand thrown spear".........as if hunters using a spear are "chunking" it at a whitetail from ground level. When in most cases it's using a downward force from above...i.e. a treestand. Not much unsafe to other hunters or the general public in that repect. It would appear from my perspective that some on the board are viewing spear hunting with that kind of ignorance. Probably because they just don't have any knowledge of how it's done. But then, this has been an issue hunters and fisherman have had with decisions made in the past from the CAB.
Anyway, it's nothing new.
Bowfreak, most non hunters who are not antis are smart enough to know that hunting is an acceptable sport and won't be swayed by antis' rhetoric, therefore won't vote against hunting or gun rights. The antis will never change anyway, so I do not care what either group thinks. Most non hunters are pretty much going to retain their status qou. We are not going to lose hunting rights in this country based on the average non-hunters positions. Most are not against it. There are not enough antis to end it. Common sense will prevail. Look whats going on in our country now. Common sense if back in style.
Next thing you know some hunters here will spout off against running deer with dogs in the south....
I see no reason why spears should be legal for hunting. How about a bowling ball or baseball bat season? I'm sure that some nut job out there would like to kill a deer that way. Using spears would be terrible publicity for hunters. And how many people are capable of throwing a spear accurately enough to hit the vitals? (Yes, I know...we have some bowhunters that are terrible shots.)
IF we lose our hunting rights in this country it will most certainly be because of non hunters. Anti hunters and hunters are both in the minority.
Common sense will prevail? LOL! I like your optimism but we have a list of closed hunting seasons and practices based on emotion not on biological sound grounds or even on practicality.
See what I mean.....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Pure ignorance. Ollie's post that is.
Some of the back and forth arguing amongst hunters (above) is one of our biggest problems. I think we would learn a lot about this proposed bill if we knew exactly who was asking for the ban.
Eddie Maxwell's Link
The common problem is picking your battles. As hunters we are a minority, so how do we sway the majority our way when we in fact, are not the majority. Well, for one it needs to be deemed acceptable by the majority. Fact of the matter is it's a different world today, and if we don't want to be categorized as completely out of touch, we need to appear relevant to the common non hunting person. Fighting for every single thing simply makes a person seem closed-minded and irrelevant. Is driving a spear into an animal that important?
I for one do not want anything to infringe on my hunting rights, so I would want to fight it on that basis alone, but if we take a step back and look at the overall equation, is looking like the backwoods irrelevant bloodthirsty spear chucking hunter the image that we want to convey that will do the best for the long term interest of our heritage? As much as we hate it, sometimes you need to pick your battles. Our problem as hunters, is we don't seem to pick any battles, we simply go lame...
The Advisory Board of Conservation consists of the governor who never shows up for the meetings, her appointees and a couple of other members who hold other offices associated with conservation.
The members are required by law to be appointed due to special experience in matters related to the duties of the agency, but, in fact, they are just picked by the governor from campaign contributors. People like undertakers, cattle farmers, landscape workers, lobbyist etc. hold those memberships.
The attached link shows the members and where they're from.
We couldn't hunt deer with a spear in East Texas anyway, there ain't no way to mount a spotlight on one............
Thanks Eddie. It sound like AL's board members are chosen exactly like VA's board members are chosen. The biggest campaign donors are chosen. Then those board members get to make the decisions for the fish/game/wildlife commission. These people may or may not have any knowledge of fish, game, habitat, or wildlife management. We hunters, fishermen, and trappers lose because we're not truly being represented.
In VA the board can't ask for any law change unless the Governor wants it. Is this how it works in AL? If so, then it stands to reason that the Governor is behind all of this.
As APauls pointed out we need to know how to choose our battles. How many people will be affected by a spear hunting ban? Not many.
But on the other hand, how big of a problem is the hunting of deer with spears? Seriously, are there hundreds of deer suffering from poorly placed spears? Are other hunters or landowners being adversely affected by spear hunting? Was a famous deer in AL recently killed by a spear? I think we can all agree that hitting a deer with a spear would require a lot of skill and especially patience. I think we can also all agree that a spear would be an effective way to kill a whitetail, probably with a very low wounding rate. What could possibly have prompted the Governor to all of the sudden want a law change outlawing the use of spears?
This is an interesting dilemma. It almost looks like the anti-hunters have chosen to ban the "lowest hanging fruit" and they want to see if the hunters will fight back. If they are successful then they'll look for the next "lowest hanging fruit". I hope that I'm wrong.
Is getting hit with a spear more brutal than getting shot in the head with a .30-06.......??
Joey Ward X2. And with enough unification and real action and participation among hunters (not the apathy that is common now), common sense will help us win out, tough battle but we will win. Esp with this administration. When push comes to shove, we will unite and act. I believe that. Or we will lose our choices. You decide to act on it or not to, but it impacts us all both ways. As for spears, no hunter should accept this proposal to ban them. Esp. in our ranks. I would give it a try, after some serious practice and proficiency. No one should restrict that choice if it is an efficient method of killing. It has been done throughout human history and there is no reason it should be stopped now. OK, maybe there should be a proficiency test and training on spear chucking. So require it and do it before a license for it can be issued. NBD, same as anything else. Some of you are caving to the 'cruelty' argument... Its not about how 'important' it is, it is about the freedom of choice of effective weapons to use. Don't take away my freedom of choice is what I'm saying. Because I don't CARE how anybody else, hunter or non-hunter, feels about it. Its my choice.
what about spears launched by a bow, we call them arrows on here?
I thought one of the two deer a day limit in bama had to be taken with a spear?! O I guess that wasn't true
I'm going to withhold judgment until I see a triple post from "deerspearmaster".
Using logic. The last figures I saw, put hunters in the U.S. at roughly 4% of the population. Confirmed anti-hunters slightly higher at maybe 6%. The remainder were classed as non-hunters. Anyone with 2nd grade math can readily see, the power of the vote is the non-hunter. Therefore: I care nothing about what affect I have on an anti-hunter. You are not going to change their mind. But I sure as heck care about how I impact a non-hunter because I have the opportunity to sway them in either direction by my actions, my behavior and my words. As a result, I am extremely careful what I say, do and write when in the public eye. And that should but does not always include, public forums such as this one. In the last decade, hunter numbers have declined 10%. Think about that.
Bowriter, it's sad but true that hunters are declining. It seemed like when I was young I didn't know that many people who didn't hunt. I have said it before, that I even took my rifle to school with me and my Teacher would put it in the coat closet until after school so I could just walk out behind the school and go hunting. I didn't even know who's property I was hunting on because it was never an issue with people. People would ask me to keep some squirrel or rabbit for them but never any "Your Trespassing On My Property" well except for one old lady that said I should not walk across her garden. Not only are we losing hunters but also property to hunt. It seems like every year we are getting less public hunting lands and leases for property to hunt are going up. Could be another reason we are losing hunters. We just lost a guy in our club this year because he said it was too expensive to pay and with the lack of available time to hunt due to work, it just wasn't worth it. If hunters would combine all their efforts into working together to promote hunting and pushing back every time something is being taken away then maybe things could be better for our future generations. Even something as simple and insignificant as Spear Hunting for deer.
I agree with elkstabber: this is simply being targeted as the "low hanging fruit". Even hunters aren't on board with supporting the allowance of hunting with a spear. So it goes away. Next will be running deer with dogs. Then baiting, then bowhunting, then...
Brotsky- I was thinking the same thing! LOL! : )
Its obvious why Alabama is seeking to outlaw Spears, TBM lives in Bama! He'd wipeout the Deer population in a no time! lol, Mike
You may remember the movie with Clint Eastwood, "Any Which Way You Can" It's apparent that Clyde was planning to move to Alabama so the CAB had to act fast on this one.