If I could Pick One...
General Topic
Kinda related to another post I made, I am often asked, if I could do one more hunt again, what it would be. Most people expect me to say Africa or Argentina. Truth is, it would be hard for me to pick between caribou and elk. But probably, a New Mexico hunt on the ranch I use to hunt would be it and for sure, it would be a bowhunt.
Many times, I have heard younger hunters say, "I'm going to save up my money for an (fill in the blank), hunt. I always tell them, BS. Go to the bank, borrow the money, take the hunt and then pay them back. You'll make monthly payments one heck of lot easier than you'll save the money. Plus, by the time you get the money saved, you'll be too old and too fat to go. I am extremely thankful I went to college in WY, spent ten-years there, did a lot of hunting and then found a profession that allowed me opportunity to actually hunt and get paid for it. Me and Lennie Rezmer on a caribou hunt many years ago.
A loan on a hunt? Does a euro mount work for collateral? I can hear my banker now when I ask him to give me a loan to go on a sheep hunt, lol.
Yeah I'm sorry but I don't think that's the best financial advice. I try not to take a loan on work I do to my house which is considered an asset never mind a hunt that is gone tomorrow. Yes I know memories are great, but we live in a 'need it now' world. Go hunt some whitetails or elk until you can afford a rich mans hunt. And if you still can't afford it, well then you probably shouldn't have taken a loan for it, or you're in real rough shape now.
The other major problem with that is if you go once, you'll want to go again. I tried to push off adventure hunting as long as possible for this reason, but kicked it off last year with an epic moose hunt with my bro. Tell ya what, we're doing something this year again!
M.Pauls you nailed it. That first big hunt for me was like a first hit of cocaine for an addict. I have to go again, and I have and will continue to do so.
My advice is work hard and smart when you are younger. Live and hunt within or below your means, stay in good shape, while dreaming and planning for future hunts. Then when finances and family obligations have been secured start living those dreams.
I agree, bad advice for taking out a loan. Instead of making monthly payments with interest, better off making monthly payments into savings account until your hunt is paid for. Could get a dang good hunt every 5 years. And that's interest free!!
Yea, go to the bank and borrow 7-17000k for a hunt and go on your hunt for ten days. See some animals and come close to getting a shot and maybe even get an animal. By the time you pay that money back with interest it will be the most expensive meat you'll ever eat lol. This time I have to disagree with you bowriter. Would rather save up the money, if I'm to old or fat or both then I'll buy something else with it.
I'm gonna somewhat agree with John. Not about the loan, that's your business decision, but about not waiting until you're too old and tired. I wish I had scrimped and saved (or spent my hard earned money better) and hunted better instead of more often. A 60 year old man in good shape will rarely best a 30 year old man in good shape except in his bank account, and an elk, a sheep, or a goat couldn't care less about that. I've done a few out of state hunts, more antelope than anything else, and I could have done more, but I was working too much trying to get well. I got there, but I missed a lot of stuff along the way, and I ain't ever seen a Brinks truck in a funeral procession.
Hell yea bowriter !!!!! My brother and I took out an $8000 loan in 1985 and went to Alaska for a month.....we had a little saved up to go with it . We owned a little trucking /dirt work company, shut it down for a month and took off . Took two years to pay it back together but man what a great time we had hunting, drinking cold beer, chasing pretty girls and fishing . Still think about that trip a lot and I would do it again in a heart beat !! Money is made to be spent and life is short.
A SWING and a MISS}{
ouch^.^
Yea, go to the bank and borrow 7-17000k for a hunt and go on your hunt for ten days. See some animals and come close to getting a shot and maybe even get an animal. By the time you pay that money back with interest it will be the most expensive meat you'll ever eat lol. This time I have to disagree with you bowriter. Would rather save up the money, if I'm to old or fat or both then I'll buy something else with it.
Yeeesh. Ill go with the Dave Ramsey camp here.
Dave Ramsey has helped me get my shit together big time! I can promise you I'll be on the fresh track of a cottontail when I'm well into my 50s because of him. Gonna save up for a squirrel hunt too.
Nick you better have your house paid off before you splurge on that Squirrel hunt. I think that's detailed in chapter 8?
I may be out on a limb here but here goes...
Find a hobby/second job to pay for your hunts. I had two jobs until I was 43. My second job was refereeing football, basketball, baseball. In addition, I was a process servicer, tax preparer, and landscaper.
I tried to find an outside activity that would bring in a few extra bucks. I have always found it easier to make more money than to save from my real job.
Good luck to all.
I get what you are saying, and I agree to the point that you should do it now when you can, not put it off thinking you'll eventually save the money. Not sure I'd take a loan though! My advise is to DIY on inexpensive tags on public land! I've gone on one outfitted hunt in my life, and will probably not do it again. I've been on a couple solo bighorn ewe hunts, picked up a doe tag in the Missouri Breaks and spent 7 days solo in the wilderness study area there, total isolation and adventure! Spring Bear tag in Montana and DIY solo in the Cabinet mountains was definitely an adventure! Point is, you can make some incredible adventures on our public lands, and you can do it with relatively inexpensive tags if you want. You shouldnt be breaking the bank (or taking out a loan) to go hunting!
I'm calling "BS" on borrowing money for a hunt. If you can't afford the hunt, you don't need to be going. There is a major difference in "Nice" vs. "Necessary." I would hate to know I needed money for a "Necessary" and could not get a loan because I was obligated on a "Nice" loan and was denied monies.
I can see John's point. Everyone makes their own life...... has their own priorities. Obsessions even. I'd skip a family reunion to go on a great hunt and not think twice about it...... I'll see whatever/whoever some other time.....
Cool. Save your money. Live your life. When you're 50 lb overweight, out of shape, heart problem, laying there in your death bed..... enjoy counting how much money you have, or your new shiny car, or new furniture or how happy your kids will be you left them all that they never had to work for...... or be sad for all the opportunities of adventure you never took. A couple haunt me now and I'm still far from my resting place..... but working toward some pretty awesome ones.....
I've NEVER done a hunt I regretted. Never. Have been on a few unsuccessful ones.... but never one I regretted. And I've put a good amount of tags and bigger expenses on my CCs. OK, many thousands. I pay them off, but can't take that money to the grave. I can however relive those adventures till my last breath, just by closing my eyes.... and have seen things and done things a very rare few ever get to do. But you have to DO them. Experience them. I know so many folks who have never left their county much less their state, and if so they couldn't get home fast enough. To me..... that's sad. Life is so much more.....
Live it safe. It's easier that way. But you never know when your last day here will be. That's a fact. Then it's too late. But at least your house is painted when you go...... that keeps folks up at night worrying about too.....
Another clue..... it's not just "can I afford it...." it's bigger than that, it gets to the point of CAN I even do it? If you are waiting to go on that "once in a lifetime" hunt..... good grief.... what are you waiting for? You really only plan on doing ONE?!? The drive to do those adventures is motivation. Without motivation it's too easy to sit on the couch, too easy to eat too much, skip a workout..... when I turned 40 I thought I was in decent shape..... went on a hunt that totally embarrassed me, humiliated me. Swore that would never happen again. I was going to be in better shape at 50..... I had to be to keep hunting the way I wanted to, needed to. 50 would have kicked 40's azz around the block and given 30 a run for his money. Slipped a bit at 60 but will be back up there soon. I have to. It's not just money.... it's motivation for living life. Life is over far too soon. For some it's over and they really don't even know it..... there's a difference between living.... and still alive.....
Do your adventures as soon as you can. All waiting does is make it one less experience to remember for your lifetime, one less adventure you'll never do. Ever.
you have to go young on some hunts, because money wont get you up 10/12000ft after for some 40 others 50 yrs old.you have got to get up there then put in maybe 15/30 miles to get a trophy.altitude sickness anyone.
And yes I live to hunt. Been obsessed since I was young. I chose to not have kids and married a woman that supports me. I never finance a hunt but I never put one off. I set dates book hunts and Work my ass off. Great post
Each to their own on deciding to borrow money for a hunt. But depending on what the hunt is, it may make more sense to borrow money and be cheaper in the long run. Have you seen the year on year price increases on some species? Certainly more than the interest on a loan. What if your dream hunt was a BC Grizzly?
Horrible advice on borrowing money to go on hunts. MANY a marriage has ended with that type of philosophy... JMHO
I think many are missing John’s point..... life is short... if you want to hunt you need to figure out a way to make it happen. A lot of hunts are not cheap and if you wait for all your financial stars to align then you likely are not going hunting. When I first start going elk hunting out west I was married and young children and lived on a very tight budget. I gave blood plasma twice a week to pay for my hunts . You don’t have to take John’s advice about taking a loan out but his point of figuring out a way to make it happen is spot on. Mike-TN
I think many are missing John’s point..... life is short... if you want to hunt you need to figure out a way to make it happen. A lot of hunts are not cheap and if you wait for all your financial stars to align then you likely are not going hunting. When I first start going elk hunting out west I was married and young children and lived on a very tight budget. I gave blood plasma twice a week to pay for my hunts . You don’t have to take John’s advice about taking a loan out but his point of figuring out a way to make it happen is spot on. Mike-TN
Why shouldn't my family suffer monetarily for the next number of years so that I an individual of the family can go hunting?
Financially I'd be more inclined to borrow money to invest it and beat the interest rate than spend it on a hunt. That's just crazy. Sure, you can relive that memory for the rest of your life, but with that way of thinking and spending that's about the only big hunting memory you'll have for the rest of your life. Work smart, save smart and have multiple of them. As others have stated adventure can be found many ways, and not all are on a path of serious $.
About the #1 thing that can get you into adventure hunting that the world needs more of is being a registered guide. It sickens me the opportunities I turn down year after year that I cannot go guide because I am running a business and have a family at home. Get your guides license, work for a few outifts and you can go anywhere and do anything while being paid. Then you can often also do guide/hunt swap type deals where you hunt in your days off. I can't believe more guys don't do this. To top it off there is a real shortage of good guides out there, and outfitters are always scraping the barrel for names. Just a few days ago had to turn down another offer for a week of fishing guiding way up northern Canada. Done the one week fishing deal a few times and it's like a vacation where you see cool country, have fun with some strangers, help them catch huge fish, catch huge fish yourself in the evening and see some cool country. All on someone else's dime and come back with an extra thousand or two to spend on another hunt. Getting my guides license was one of the smartest hunting decisions ever. Besides that all kinds of hunting equipment retailers will give you discounts with a guides license. In the future when I can back off my work hours I look forward to many days guiding others. Guiding is a serious blast, especially when you don't have to do it 300 days/year. When you do it a few weeks a year it's the funnest thing ever. And like I said, you come home with enough CASH, yes CASH to pay for that next adventure hunt.
So now you basically got that adventure hunt you wanted for free living through others $, and boom you got your next hunt saved up and paid for.
In my 20's, my buddy VISA and I made a few hunts happen. Smart? No. Regrets? No.
Other considerations are how fast some hunt costs are increasing. Some definitely outpace a low interest loan. Things change as well. Game populations (caribou), laws, access, etc. No, borrowing money for anything that doesn't hold or increase value usually isn't smart, but I see people take out loans for a lot of things they don't need.
Many people have 5 or 6 digit education loans for a degree they or their kids never needed for the career they landed in? Fancy trucks, ATVs, pools, boats, RVs, poorly planned business ventures, etc..
Great point Mike-TN that’s pretty cool how you made it happen. It really all depends on how bad you want it and your priorities.
Anyone still saving up for that Quebec-Lab caribou hunt?
Oh snap!
Doesn't matter guys. Bowriter said over on Leatherwall he's done hunting, don't have it in him anymore. Not really sure why he even brought this topic up here??
My bad, it was right here he mentioned that, not the Leatherwall. Sorry, I'm getting my ego's mixed up.
"From: South Farm 21-Jun-18Private Reply Doesn't matter guys. Bowriter said over on Leatherwall he's done hunting, don't have it in him anymore. Not really sure why he even brought this topic up here??"
Bowriter has never been on Leatherwall and about 98% of you missed the entire point.
People who are good with money would have a plan (and could stick with it) to pay off borrowed money for a hunt. However, these people are generally not the ones who would be apt to do those sorts of things.
If you don't have a family, and you can find a bank willing to give you a loan for a hunt, by all means go for it. I've never tried it, but I tend to think that is probably not realistic for today's day in age, unless you are going to get a lien on a dependable asset. If it's something that you could max. out a card with, it seems like you might be on the losing end paying it back. In my experience, very few are capable of maxing one out and paying it back without significant losses. If you ARE one of those people, have at it. I'm banking points on a card, but have the cash to back up the purchases, so that's really a moot point in regards to this discussion.
So what is the point we all missed?
We all did not miss it. Only 98%
"So what is the point we all missed?"
It has nothing to do with borrowing money.
So with 30 different posters on this thread 98% of them means less than 1 of us know what the point of this thread is. Sounds about right.
"Go to the bank, borrow the money, take the hunt and then pay them back. You'll make monthly payments one heck of lot easier than you'll save the money."
I read what you said.
I got the point about life being short so do things while you are able. I respectfully disagree with your comment about borrowing money for a hunt.
Good Lord! It aint about borrowing money. It is about borrowing time!!!!
In this day of house notes, car notes, tuition, college loans and who knows what all else. All people think about is money. Money, you can repay, you can borrow more, you can borrow to get all the things you think you need. You can make monthly payments to repay the loans. How do you borrow time? How do you repay that? How do you make monthly payments and save up time? What is your life worth? Can you mortgage a memory? Can you recapture a lost minute? How do you save vitality? How do you bank a healthy heart or lungs. Good God! What has happened to the simple act of living?
It is not about money. Money is just paper. You cannot buy the sound of a bugle on a frosty morning. You can't rent the sight of a caribou on the Tiaga. You cannot get a loan on the silence of a canoe floating on a river, expecting a huge bull around every bend. You borrow gard dangit and you do it! Then, when you are old, you pay it back. I misdouobt 2% even get a glimmer of what I just said.
Makes sense to me but I have always been one of the 2% group
^^^^^^. Damn, I am in good company !
After the WY draw, I just found out I'm not one of the 37%
You're absolutely right!......You should be in politics.
Well I just got the $25,000 saved for my stone sheep hunt.... $h!t What are they $40-$50,000 now?
Wise words, Bowwriter. Look forward to seeing your photography if you do stop hunting.
I've found myself trying to do more and more stuff I actually enjoy doing. It's all so fragile. Might as well live it up.
I got this several years ago from some hunt info from Jack Atcheson. Keep it posted on my refrigerator as a reminder about enjoying life as much as possible, within reason.
At my age and the people I see some of the people around me that are my age-things are pretty clear that life on earth is a “limited engagement” and I have been truly blessed.
Just a thought here, but tomorrow is promised to ,no one. I’ve used my VISA for more hunts than I can remember, when I was a younger. I just worked my ass off in overtime to repay. I retired early at 55, with 35 years. Started my own business, and now hunt more than ever. It’s all about money management, and just as important, time management.
BC173 you hit the nail on the head!
Thanks for the reminder of how valuable time is. Many may have scoffed at the advice, but wouldn't think twice about borrowing money to pay for a $60K truck, when a $5k craig's list special would have been just fine.
Life is short, hunt
Sometimes it takes a little explaining or...a swift kick in the butt.
It is 12:55 on Friday morning. I have been awake for about 30-minutes. One of the drawbacks to old(er)-age, I guess. I don’t sleep well, haven’t in years. So my faithful dog Libby and I are in my office. Libby never lets me out of her sight, except when she is asleep. That is 90% of the time. Libby is 75 in dog years. About my age.
I was sitting here looking around. Mounted deer heads, caribou, sheep, elk, turkeys, bobcats, bear, ducks, fish, books and pictures and various awards. Memories of a life well spent. I am well pleased with how I spent it. Despite having spent much of it traveling, away from home, I have been married to the same woman for 44-years, have two great kids and four super grandkids. I don’t have a new truck or a new boat or a mortgage or a single debt.
But I dang sure have a ton of great memories and have lived a life few can even dream of. I’m glad I lived it while I was still alive.
Congrats on a great life bowriter. I'm happy for you that you are able to sit around enjoying memories and mounts paid for with money you had at the time, and you're not working overtime to pay for stuff you bought that you didn't have money for earlier in life ;)
Some seem to forget that the flip-side of paying with money you don't have is that you have to pay the piper at some point. This means work when you don't want to overtime etc, missing out on kids things, a whole lot of memories there as well, albeit negative. But I guess that's the beauty of a free world, spend your money how you'd like. Sounds to me like bowriter is happy with his life's decisions even though he didn't mortgage the future back in the past.
Giving advice is always a dangerous thing, because the giver of advice doesn't have to live with the consequences. "paying it back when you're old" means work. Not even health is a given when you are old. How can you be sure you'll be able to do so? Never mind the habits it starts in life to feel like you owe it to yourself to mortgage from the future. Scary proposition IMO.
I'd rather be that 50% broke that has lived life to it's fullest, taken it's risks, enjoyed it's adventures than the 6% who are "comfortable" and have maybe been to Disneyland or taken some boring azzed ocean cruise somewhere. Hell, I'd rather be in the 33% dead that lived their lives to their limits than those who opted out. I have ZERO desire for a rocking chair on a porch being worthless and lazy, biding their time till it runs out. I could be worthless and having an adventure of a lifetime few will ever experience. Some will be rocking that chair because it will be too late and it's all they can do. Others will never adventure because for one excuse or another they tell themselves, they won't.
Somehow getting "life advice" from a 30 something (or even a 40 something) is kinda deja vu. They don't know what they don't know..... they think they have this life thing nailed..... just like some of us thought we did..... 20 or 30+ years ago......
I'm a pup at 62. It's FAR harder to count up all the dozens of dead folks I knew about my same age than the ones that are able to go do a two week backpack elk trip with me. I think those I personally know I can count on one hand and a couple of those guys are from the Bowsite..... The dead pool grows more (and faster) every day. Lost another good friend last week (have heard a couple stories how, but he died surfing anyway. Hopefully mine will come on a mountain....)
Work? Have no fear of work, I plan on working at something the rest of my life. A 40 hour week a person can do standing on their heads, that's nothin'. You want something kick it up to 60-70+ and get it done. Lots of time to rest up after you're worm food or dust....
Those with the loudest voices I've heard are those who with the advantage of years and hindsight..... bitterly regret not doing something (whatever that might have been) in their youth..... while they could.... and now it's too late. Saved more money is very rarely the wish, because life is, in the end of it, not about money. IMO that is "advice" worth at least acknowledging, contemplating, if not acting on.
Oh I hope I don’t sound like I’m giving life advice! My only point is that we need to be real careful about big picture life advice that someone gives. Everyone is an individual so I’m glad you’ve figured out what makes you tick and is right for you but just because you have figured that out don’t automatically assume that that is right for me or someone else down the block. That’s the beauty of the free world we get to live it how we want.
Simply trying to point out the pros and cons of different avenues although I’m sure my leanings come through.
We all have a right to disagree.
Kind of reminds me of my dad insinuating that I should follow his lead on some things he figured out about his marriage. I’m really happy he feels like he’s got it figured out with my mom. After 40 years of marriage I’m sure he’s learned a ton - heck of a lot more than I have. But my wife is a completely different person and ticks in a totally different way. What he was telling me would t apply to her. So how could a person give blanket advice over the internet to people you don’t know? Tough one
Do it when your young, i see far to many die in their 40's in my profession. Buy a older truck and go on that hunt!
For me...... balance is important...... the boring azz cruise I just went on with my family to Alaska is every bit as important as a hunt...... and every bit as much of an adventure...... trips with my wife to the Grand Canyon...... Colorado...... Gattlinburg......and yes..... Disney....... were just as important to me as a hunting trip.....
I heard Alaska is awesome. Did they not let you fish off the mother ship?
Dang, I keep checking in on this thread and hoping it's morphed into everyone's one hunt they would choose if they could only pick one. I've got two young kids and more on the way, so I'm busy dreaming about all the "once" in a lifetime trips we'll go on once they grow up a bit.
Great advice Bowwriter! My career in ER has showed me over and over life can and will end when you least expect it. If you are one of the unlucky ones that are placed in a nursing home to twiddle your days away until you lose your mind, the last thing your mind will think of is happier days with your family and bygone days in the field.
Many outfitters are turning to payment plans for a couple years to book up! It is still a debt but probably an acceptable debt. I suppose many hunters have $500 down and $200 per month than $6000 at a show! Be careful as I doubt it is refundable in the middle of a payment plan. Also, make sure the outfitter is still in business or you are probably on the short end of the stick. Do well!
I'm not sure a pre-paid hunt using deposit(s) is the payment plan most are thinking about here. paying in installments before the hunt is a risk, the more down and the further in advance the riskier, paying installments after is a personal choice on priorities and one's philosophy on debt.
I have never head of outfitters accepting payment after the event as per a true payment plan and think they would be insane for doing so.
Make the payments to yourself in a coffee can after putting the required deposit down to book the hunt...... My hunt of a lifetime is moose....anywhere. If I could hunt moose every year in trade for giving up all other hunting..... I’d do it in a heartbeat.......
APauls..... I went on a halibut fishing excursion in Ketchikan..... It was my way of getting a little bit of a fishing adventure on our family vacation..... It was on a small boat with only 3 guys fishing.
I’m thinking of starting a go fund me account for an Argali sheep hunt that I’ve wanted to do. Anyone who’s interested in donating, PM me and I’ll let you know where to send the funds.
Hey, it worked for that pinheaded couple that wrecked their sailboat!
Bowriter I got it from the beginning but then I’m 68, spent more time in a hospital bed a few years wondering if I was going to loose a leg above the knee from an infection than I want to think about. Hospital beds are great places for reflection on life especially after age 60. Reading the obituaries in a hospital bed is even more reflective. When you have a co-worker that you laughed and joke with Monday afternoon die Monday night of a heart attack that is the same age as you causes another moment of life reflection. Younger fellas just can’t grasp this yet. You know or think you’ve got a lot of life and living ahead of you. Those of us that are older know we don’t. I’m struggling now with how important these hunts are for me? I’ve got 15 grandchildren most under 10 and 9 now live close by. I know that spending time with them is the most important thing but I have hunted for 60 years. I do more hunting in my mind now than actual hunting. I realize my mind writes checks my body can’t cash. I’m a taxidermist and have plenty of mounts. I’ve seen what happens when an avid hunter and or a taxidermist dies to all their prized trophies and it’s sad. My job now is to share with my grandkids what each of those mounts memories are. My dad loved to hunt. Worked 6 days a week driving trucks. He died at 48. I wasyoung at the time and I wonder if he thought about future hunting trips while lying in a hospital bed fighting cancer. That recent sheep hunt video posted on here really hit me hard. If you haven’t seen it watch it. Tick Tock fellas. Time waits for no one.
