Traditional record book coming soon
Contributors to this thread:General Topic
From: JSW
15-Oct-18
For all of you trad shooters, P&Y will publish the 3rd edition of the Traditional Journey Record Book early next year. I encourage all of you to get your animals entered before December 31 so they are in this book. It's a great way to see how your trophy compares to all the others taken with traditional equipment. Jim
From: Treeline
15-Oct-18
Looking forward to it! Thanks, Jim!
From: Genesis
15-Oct-18
Bou will want a few copies.
From: WV Mountaineer
15-Oct-18
Why? I hunt with and am very successful with both. I just see no reason why there must be a different book. Which is why I asked. Not wanting to get anything started.
From: Jaquomo
16-Oct-18
WV, I agree, but you and I both know why it had to be done. At least P&Y hasn't adopted the hokey Compton scoring system for trad entries.
From: BuzAL
16-Oct-18
...no reason...?
Is having no interest in compound, crossbow, gun, vehicular, or "natural death" records really incomprehensible?
From: APauls
16-Oct-18
Is it going to be considered fair chase under trad rules if one using high tech clothing? ;)
From: smarba
16-Oct-18
APauls, those entries will have a * next to them LOL
From: ROUGHCOUNTRY
16-Oct-18
I hunt and have killed with self bows, long bows , recurves and of course compounds. If you check out the kill threads on the traditional side, it's sparse and trophy size bucks are even more scarce. It's definitely more challenging, and I imagine the little book will be about 20 pages long:)
From: South Farm
16-Oct-18
20 pages...made out of birch bark and written in campfire charcoal to keep it "Traditional", no doubt;)
From: Buglmin
16-Oct-18
Lou, It's sad to see the way bow hunters have been separated. The arguments that went along with the fight to have their own separate book was dumb. Seems stickbow shooters think a lil highly of themselves...
From: EmbryOklahoma
16-Oct-18
Jaquomo, I first read your "hokey" comment as honkey. I was like, damn, this derailed quick.
From: JSW
16-Oct-18
Why? Because traditional bowhunters wanted it. There is a difference between hunting with traditional equipment and hunting with the most modern compound and some people want to see how things stack up in different categories. We also publish a whitetail only book and a velvet only book. While we take our hits for what we do or don't do, we try to be responsive to the needs of our members.
From: pav
16-Oct-18
Compound shooter here....and I've never been bothered one bit by the Traditional Journey. It is just another offering that makes money for the organization. If I ever enter an animal killed using traditional gear....I'll probably own a copy myself!
From: greg simon
16-Oct-18
Congratulations to those who will be in this new book. I have not yet killed an animal that will qualify, but I'm trying!
From: Ken Taylor
16-Oct-18
I'm just an old northern Canadian bushman and I enjoy all P&Y publications, a club I was introduced to by hunters during my fairly long guiding career.
I live and love all aspects of the outdoors and enjoy getting some idea of what's going on hunting wise in other parts of North America.
I find the traditional book especially interesting not only as a representation of that segment of the bowhunting world but also for the history contained within.
I for one, am looking forward to it.
From: Kodiak
16-Oct-18
I don't mind the idea, mainly because I shoot trad.
Yes, we are an arrogant bunch.
From: rallison
16-Oct-18
Kodiak, I'm a trad shooter as well (really...I hate that term...lol), and have been for decades. Why? Because I love shooting them...that's it. I don't hold myself on high and never will.
But, that arrogance runs deep on both sides of the fence. That's too bad. Divide and conquer is a long standing, successful tactic...and we, as bowhunters, are our own worse enemies. We need to all get over ourselves and keep our sport alive.
That said, I'd take a look at that book myself.
From: Charlie Rehor
16-Oct-18
Jim: Roughly how many additional entries are there between the second and third book?
I have entries in both traditional equipment and compound equipment and agree it’s way harder with trad. Perhaps we need separate World Records and ranking for each category?
From: Missouribreaks
16-Oct-18
Why not just have Boone and Crockett and do away entirely with weapon? Weren't we there once?
From: 1boonr
16-Oct-18
I’m waiting for the traditional book with records taken on public ground. Everyone knows how easy hunting private is. There will be an asterisk by trophy’s shot on weekends because that is the most challenging time to hunt on public.
From: midwest
16-Oct-18
I heard one guy is pushing for a separate Alabama record book.
From: Missouribreaks
16-Oct-18
Some other states already have their own records, Michigan I believe is one.
From: EmbryOklahoma
16-Oct-18
Hoping to enter one myself, soon.
From: spike78
16-Oct-18
We have the Northeast Big Buck club here which makes it an even playing field and I believe they also measure without deductions and their aren’t rules like size of bow or use of certain accessories.
From: Ollie
16-Oct-18
Is it any wonder that many traditional bowhunters want nothing to do with you guys. Take a look at some of your comments and then try to tell us how it is the traditional guys that are arrogant and not wanting to get along. This post was about a records book being published and had no negative or judgmental comments and some of you guys jumped all over it.
From: JSW
16-Oct-18
Charlie, The first Traditional Journey in 2007 had 7755 entries. By the time the second edition had been printed 6 years later there were over 800 additional entries. I don't know how many entries have been sent in since 2013 but I expect it will show a fairly consistent trend. Maybe Ed can answer that. I don't intend to take the time to find out until this recording period has ended and we start creating the book. It will certainly be interesting to find out.
The divide and conquer comments kill me. What is divisive about wanting to break down the statistics by category. Discussing equipment and being team loyal does nothing to lesson our resolve to take on the enemy at all fronts. It's just another interesting way to converse about what we think about 24/7.
For what it's worth, we are adding the private/public land question on the next revision of our fair chase affidavit. That is another statistic that will be interesting to track.
From: rallison
16-Oct-18
To an earlier question, the Wisconsin Buck & Bear is one.
From: Missouribreaks
16-Oct-18
Why did bowhunters carve out a niche from B & C, and then complain when bows found better wheels and scopes? What's up ?
From: JSW
16-Oct-18
Who is complaining? Complaining about what?
From: Missouribreaks
16-Oct-18
Complaining about traditionalists wanting seperate listing? Should be obvious if you read all posts.
From: Missouribreaks
16-Oct-18
Complaining about traditionalists wanting seperate listing? Should be obvious if you read all posts.
From: stealthycat
16-Oct-18
it should be P&Y record book
and then a separate record book for compounds and crossbows :)
From: Missouribreaks
16-Oct-18
Here you go. If it was not about weapon choice, why create P &Y separate from B&C ?
From: Missouribreaks
16-Oct-18
Here you go, why not allow crossbow kills in P&Y vs 85 % let off, or whatever it will be tomorrow?
From: Missouribreaks
16-Oct-18
Here you go? Add to it please.
From: Missouribreaks
16-Oct-18
Here you go, I know of three hunters who entered P&Y Wyoming crossbow antelope kills in P&Y. What you say?
From: WV Mountaineer
16-Oct-18
I'm sorry JSW for even asking. I really am. I truly didn't mean to get Missouribreaks started. I was truly unaware that there was a 1st and 2nd edition already. Thank you for being respectful in your response.
From: PECO
16-Oct-18
There should be a record book for those of us that shoot left handed.
From: Missouribreaks
16-Oct-18
Left handed and left eye dominant, Lol.
From: stealthycat
16-Oct-18
well truthfully .... the entire history of bowhunting and archery IS recurves and longbows - not compounds
so to re-write archery and bowhunting as compounds, and relabeling recurves and longbows traditional?
bowhunting and archery is recurve and longbows - anything else can be labeled something maybe?
From: Stryker
16-Oct-18
With SOME OF YOUR COMMENTS Fred Bear, Saxton Pope and Art Young just rolled over in their graves. This is not what they invisioned for our future. Wake up and unite as a group for what we all believe in. I shoot tradional and have for 30 years and that is not a statement but what I enjoy just like you enjoy shooting. The rest of my family shoots compound bows as that is what they feel comfortable with. We need to stay united. It’s not about what you shoot but about your ethics and yes I am a member of Pope and Young Just saying
From: HUNT MAN
16-Oct-18
Wow
From: RogBow
16-Oct-18
Traditional archery is certainly in a league of its own and credit should be given to those who choose that route and become proficient at taking game with said bows on public land. Also, nothing looks as good as a fine trad bow.
This said I love the power and accuracy of my compound.
From: JSW
16-Oct-18
Those of us who hunt hard, hunt a lot and hunt all over want to learn as much as we can and the various record keeping organizations are a great place to start. There are state only record books that quantify only those animals taken in that state. Is that divisive? There are species only record books like the P&Y whitetail book that is broken down by state. Are we pitting whitetail hunters against everyone else? We have the velvet only record book that shows only those entries and, yes, I know that book was extremely flawed but we can't change that. We'll fix it next time. All of these tools allow you to see what has been taken in the categories you are interested in. B&C lists everything, even road kills. They just want the data and only discriminate if it was taken illegally. Even on a poached animal, if the G&F ends up with the head, B&C will accept it and list it as owned by XYZG&F. Just because you aren't interested in certain data doesn't mean it's not valued by someone else. Because someone wants to see data that you aren't interested in is not divisive, it's inquisitive. I still don't understand what you mean. The only ones I see complaining are the guys who don't think there should be a traditional only book. You're entitled to that opinion. Just like everything else in life. If you don't like it don't watch it, read it or purchase it. But don't be the guy who insists that just because you don't want it, no one else should be able to get it.
From: Missouribreaks
16-Oct-18
Wa wa wa wa. The good the bad , and the ugly.
From: Shrewski
16-Oct-18
Why can’t there be more men like Ken Taylor in this world?
Support the club and stop whining. If you don’t like one book or the other, don’t buy it.
Good for the guys that get their name in the traditional book. Good for the guys who get their name in the “regular” book. Or are you all jealous someone gets their name in both books for only one entry fee? Grow up and find something worthwhile to complain about!
Thanks to Pope and Young for compiling all this data and keeping track; it’s a worthwhile research tool.
From: bowhunter24
16-Oct-18
Thanks Jim for all you and Pope And Young does and congrats on that Bison again!
From: Jaquomo
17-Oct-18
I have volume 1 and 2 and primarily bought them for the great stories (besides supporting the club). I have animals of multiple species listed in both.
Don't see a problem with publishing separate record books, including whitetails only, if there are volunteers willing to do it and the Club makes money from it.
But the "I'm trad and therefore special" attitude that some wear on their sleeves can be tiresome. Especially from the converts. I'm just glad the Club hasn't adopted something like the Compton system for traddites where the "scores" of the animals can be inflated by things like shooting it from the ground with a longbow on a full moon while wearing a plaid wool shirt, self-tanned leather underpants and a genuine Borsalino cocked just-so..
From: Zbone
17-Oct-18
Missouribreaks - "Here you go, I know of three hunters who entered P&Y Wyoming crossbow antelope kills in P&Y. What you say?"
Just curious - Is that for real, P&Y now accepting xbow kills?
From: Steve H.
17-Oct-18
MOST P&Y species would be faaaar more difficult to kill on PRIVATE lands than public lands. And, you can quote me on that.
From: ground hunter
17-Oct-18
I shoot a longbow, so the record book would be kind of cool. I agree with Sherwski,,,,, I think Pope and young is a fine organization. Jaquomo makes a good point, which is why I do not belong to any trad org, but I do like the TBM magazine.........
Its just archery, its just to have fun, some guys shoot a stick, and act like they found the holy grail,,,,,,,,,geesh
From: ground hunter
17-Oct-18
By the way, the Wis Buck and Bear Club put out a beautiful record book,,,, check it out and buy it,,,,, it is well done
From: Rock
17-Oct-18
Missori wrote; Here you go, I know of three hunters who entered P&Y Wyoming crossbow antelope kills in P&Y. What you say?
I would say where is your proof of this? If it is true and I doubt it is, then why don't you prove it and turn them in seeing as you hate the record books so much?
From: huntnmuleys
17-Oct-18
Wow, this thread got interesting LOL. I’m anxious to see the new traditional record book, I have the other two. Personally I am a traditional bow hunter, but all of the people in my camp and all of my close friends here are all compound guys and I’ve never been one to care either way what weapon anyone uses. I’m a member of comptons, But I think they’re scoring system is, well, out there and I have never entered anything in their archives and I’m sure I never will. But I do enjoy the magazine and reading the stories. I also enjoyed reading the compound stuff on here. But I think they’re scoring system is, well, out there and I have never entered anything in their archives and I’m sure I never will. But I do enjoy the magazine reading stories. I also enjoyed reading the compound stuff on here. However, beings as I usually use a traditional bow I take a lot of interest in the traditional record books. It’s neat to see were things stack up. I don’t believe that’s an elitist attitude, it’s just fun info.
From: huntnmuleys
17-Oct-18
Lol and for some reason, Voice texting edited part of that twice to make me look like an idiot. God I hate iphones lol.
From: ROUGHCOUNTRY
17-Oct-18
Over the years I killed a few deer with a recurve which scored "Hope and Young." These landed in that no mans land between 118 and 125 inches:) We could apply some "handicap" points similar to golf and bowling. This would insure trad-kill hope and young bucks would make the book and deserve their honor since the hunt involved an added degree of difficulty:)
From: Catscratch
17-Oct-18
They want their own record book I'm all for it, cause killing a deer with a stickbow certainly isn't the same thing as killing one with a compound or crossbow.
From: 1boonr
17-Oct-18
Isn’t it harder to kill a poper on public ground with a compound than on managed private ground with a recurve?
From: Treeline
17-Oct-18
Do booners on public ground with a longbow count?
From: Glunt@work
17-Oct-18
Pope and Young? Hmmmm, most of my critters have been plenty young...not so much Pope. :^)
From: 1boonr
21-Oct-18
Treeline- that would be a very small book.
From: Charlie Rehor
21-Oct-18
East of the Mississippi River yes.
From: midwest
21-Oct-18
I enter mine in the Poke 'em Young book.
From: JL
21-Oct-18
When I think of traditional equipment.....I think of the basic, early equipment used throughout the 1700's and 1800's.....no frills. Working under that concept, the old ball, patch and powder ML's would be traditional. If there were to be a book of "traditional" harvests, to me it might make more sense to use "traditional" weapons as the context to list animals. That would be stick and string and old style ML's/flintlocks (heck...even a blunderbuss). Those are the weapons the country's history was built on.....ie our traditions. Just an outsiders thought on what "traditional" means when it's used.
From: altitude sick
21-Oct-18
I am currently shooting a Mathews Triax, it’s kinda traditional:))) of course just kidding for a those that are literal. I do occasionally get the itch to pull out one of my custom recurves, longbows, Self bows I made. or just my dads Bear Grizzly. Jac, I also do not like the holier than thou people turning down their noses at training wheels. I and many on here were shooting “Glass Powered” bows before many of the pompous douche bags were born. With that said. I think a seperate book would be cool. Even though I am shooting with training wheels for now. I also believe that it would be nice to have a self bow, recurve, longbow season. Of course will never happen. But it would be nice especially for limited quota units.
From: Lee
21-Oct-18
It surprised me to read a lot of these comments. Pretty hard to argue it’s not harder to kill a big deer with a traditional bow than a compound! I don’t see an issue with it at all and I hunt with a compound! I hope the book makes PnY a bunch of money.
Lee
From: 1boonr
21-Oct-18
It all depends on the hunter and where he is hunting. It was pretty easy for Rothaar to shoot a good buck compared to an average hunter with a compound on public ground. I almost always do better with my bear kodiak than the killers that hunt next to me with compound and crossbows.
From: Shawn
21-Oct-18
I for one do not believe there should be separate record books. I hunt with both and have at least one whitetail that would make the book in the trad book but I do not enter any of mine, compound or traditional. Its archery hand held bow drawn by the string by hand or a release. Shawn
From: tradmt
22-Oct-18
What we should have is a record book for pounds of meat taken from the damn carcass.
From: JSW
22-Oct-18
It's interesting that someone who doesn't enter his animals in the record book would care one way or another.
I've come across a hand full of elk carcasses that were like that. It always makes me sick. If you don't have enough respect for the animal to take the time to do it right, you don't deserve to be out there.
From: Linecutter
22-Oct-18
I see that those who have never shot a Traditional bow, want to complain about those that are wanting separated section, because of the equipment they shoot. So if you see no difference, then give up your compound and hunt with traditional gear. I will tell you it is a whole lot easier to go from Traditional to Compound, than it is from Compound to Traditional. I will make it even an easier on you so you don't have to spend the money on a Traditional bow. Shoot and "Hunt" with your Compounds with fingers only, glove or tab your choice, no release, no Peep Sight, and no Sights. You still do get your let off on the bow. SEE how the game changes. This is just so you don't have to change bows, but to give you a taste of the difference between what you shoot and what Traditional shooter do. Until you are willing to live in this world with your bow as I just described, for 3-4 years, don't be condescending towards those that do. You don't think there is a difference, then take this challenge, then come back, and tell me how it is not different. If you are not willing to do this: Is it because you can't hit anything, is it takes more practice than you want to remain consistent, is it you might miss your shot on that Big Buck because you don't have your sight pins and peep to aim your bow? If so you have no real clue as to why they want the equipment separated, and just want to complain. But hey, to listen to many of you there is no difference, they are both bows, shooting arrows, and should be in the same class. So if that is the case, why don't you shoot your compounds, the same way those shooting traditional gear do, with no bells, no whistles, and with fingers? THEN I would agree with your argument, there is no difference, and there shouldn't be any separation. DANNY
From: Wapitidung
22-Oct-18
Dang
From: Boreal
22-Oct-18
It's not a separate book. The book is still the book. It's an additional book. I really don't see a problem and I shoot a compound.
