Price of hunting land
General Topic
Here in Ohio we see quite a bit of hunting land for sale for extended periods. With the tremendous hit the stock market and most likely the housing market, what do you think will happen to land prices regarding recreational property. I think many many "would be" buyers are indefinitely on the side line. Thoughts?
FWIW.............we are closing on a snowbird home here in the Daytona area tomorrow. When I went to drop off a check on Friday, the title company lady said we got in at a good time because some of the folks who came after us are having a tough time getting their loans due to the virus/economy issue. If anyone is considering a home purchase in the near future and plan on using a loan....heads up.
I have a buyer for one under contract and they're expected to close by April 18th. As of last week her loan officer was moving forward so I hope your hearsay is very localized.
I think this whole mess will be a buying opportunity for some, and an adversity to others. I wouldn't want to be buying or selling property, right now.
Matt
I just don't see the price of land taking much of a downturn unless the economy gets significantly worse than it already is. Interest rates are at all time lows for those that need to borrow and there are a lot of people sitting on old money (cash in hand) looking for a place to invest it.
It’s a case by case situation. Some People are going to get clobbered and some Will be golden
Unless someone needs money now I figure they will just wait. Hopefully things will be back to normal in 4-6 months
Will vary as mentioned.If they start cranking the printing presses for more money,land will shine.Few months down the road though for sure IMO.
Another FWIW.....for the 30 yr conventional we locked in at 3.25%. I don't know if land only goes at a different schedule?
My wife works in the mortgage industry and says because of the huge influx of refinancing/buying the mortgage lenders and banks are greatly backed up and are having a hard time processing loans in a timely manner, this could be one reason, and with all the layoffs another.
With all the uncertainty in the markets and the future of the economy, it is just too soon to tell. If Trump is right, and I pray he his, the pent up economy will rebound and this will be a horrible, but temporary setback. But there are other well respected economists predicting far more dire outcomes. Our country may soon be reaching a tipping point, with our leaders balancing the health of our people and the health of our economy. Not an enviable job.
I am closing on a new piece in Edgar County, Illinois on Friday and I financed it through Farmer Mac at 3.65. I feel like it’s a great time to buy land if you can. I purchased 435 acres on March 6 in an auction and feel like it went super cheap.
Chaos & panic provides opportunity for those sitting on cash and misery and envy for those who do not have available funds to hold on or to acquire.
Redman You gonna need any "help" with that property ? I just happen to be a resident of the state ;)
Banks are one of the many institutions Small Business people can get the loan/grant given by the feds if they've had to close. They are absolutely swamped.
Seems like one of those situations that calls for caution. One thing for sure, the price isn't going to be going up any time soon.
I put off buying land two years ago because my daughter got in to an expensive private school. My brother, who's made a lot more money than I have, is railing on how cheap money is right now. I hate to go into debt, but this may be the time.
It's been mentioned but...I'd sure hate to be buying and definitely HATE to be selling right now.
If Americans were smart (and we're not) this type of situation would make city slickers consider the great value of a sustainable lifestyle. Sell everything and "head for the hills". I think we all know that isn't going to happen. The 2008 housing market (loan market) crash should have made people think twice about taking on so much personal debt. In fact it did not.
The economy will certainly get worse. We essentially shut down the entire system in a few weeks, it will take much longer to start up again. The unemployment rate won't automatically rebound. It will take years. Recreational properties won't be in as high demand because many of those who might have been able to afford them two months ago have no job.
Economy’s always rebound. At least they always have in the past.
Many fortunes have been made during down economy’s.
At the bottom is always the time to buy. Not when things are booming.
Interest rates will stay low. And I don’t think housing or land is at the bottom yet.
Land and homes bought at the right price are always a good investment.
In a few more weeks
Buy, Buy, Buy.
Good time to buy anything. Barbecues, boats, vehicles, land, or houses. It’s a buyers market out there
Nothing is selling up here for houses. Land is hard to buy because the feds outbid everyone. I have a 60+ acre piece, mostly swamp, that they offered 3 times the assessed value for. I told them they can have it for $600,000 as they bought a 40 acre flooded swamp for $495,000. They said they are waiting for the next election. If the Dems win, there will be more money for land acquisition. I won’t sell as my neighbors would hate me as the feds are hated up here. It is a good woodcock cover that locals hunt and the fed manager is a control freak and anti-hunting dogs.
Trax, he especially detests hounds. You can hunt with only two beagles where they are allowed. If your hunting with bear hounds and they cross their land, you can expect harassment if they are not down at the local coffee joint, taking their twice a day, flirting with the waitresses, while wearing their East German uniforms, hour long break. The good thing is that they quit at 4, and if you hunt more than 100 yards from the road, you will never see them. They don’t stray far from a pickup. I had only one encounter with one who tried to get me to snowshoe down a ridge to him. It was on private timberland. I yelled down to him to learn where the Communist property line was and I kept climbing up to a mountain swamp with my beagle. We don’t like them up here as you can tell.
I just saw an 80 acre parcel come up in NE. Sits immediately off the highway with a small wooded draw, small pond that is mostly silted in and the rest dryland crop. They are asking $800,000 for it. $10k/acre is ridiculous!
Trax, we bought the land, but they make all the rules and control it. They don’t even pay taxes on it, which means that in a property tax state, we pay more to cover the loss of tax base.
Lawdy
How and why do they make the rules on land you own? I've never heard of that. Is it wet lands?
None of that makes any sense to me. Would you elaborate a little more please
We all bought the fed land with our taxes. One of the main facets of Communism is public ownership of property but the control of that property is in the hands of the elite masters. Karl Marx was clear about this in his Communist Manifesto. Locals have zero say as to what goes on. People in high population areas who will never visit or live here have, by their sheer numbers, more input than we who live here. These are two huge refuges that are planned to take our entire county. I asked about hunting and they said “allowed, for now.” They own over one third of our village. Fed land is supposed to be our land, but face it, he who controls it, really owns it, and we sure don’t control it.
This thread is getting weirder and more confusing everytime I refresh...
Lawdy, Having trouble following along with what you are trying to say. Is this in New Hampshire? or some other land far, far away?
Lawdy thanks got it
Federal land. but land "we" all own. Good luck with all of that
Hey LIVE FREE OR DIE
Pour it on Lawdy. Sounds like you are winning!!
Lawdy, that sounds like what they do with National Monuments here in the West. Once declared, access and use is highly restricted from what was permitted before. When they say "hunting is permitted for now", that means "until a progressive president is elected who rewards his 'conservationist' constituents by closing all National Monuments to hunting by simple decree".
Do I get extra credit for not mentioning BHA in the paragraph above?
I think it will take awhile for the economy to sort itself out. The market swings are all over the place. As long as interest rates stay low, land prices are going to remain steady. Although, if this lasts another few quarters, those folks who are highly leveraged may start dumping and all bets are off.
Dpat, this is in Northern NH, Maine, and Vermont. I have been fighting this for 15 years with petitions, attending meetings, and testifying in our state capital and Washington. Very hard to fight when they have the power of the federal government behind them along with our money. Our fed reps, Shaheen, Kuster, and Hassan are all progressive and cater to the liberals downstate where the votes are. We don’t count. Until the right people are affected, we fight alone. Our grandkids will never experience the liberty old farts like myself grew up with. Someday, America will wake up and deal with these issues. The cleansing , like all governments before us, will probably be with blood. We up here along the border put up with long winters, low wages for hard physical work as a general rule, and our reward is the bounty of these huge forests and solitude. We value freedom and local control, and especially distrust big government. End of rant.
Lawday.... robbing bank is only a punishable crime if you get caught. It sounds to me like they are too busy schmoozing the city folk for votes and celebrating the wins at the local diner to be a concern. Carry on!
By that logic stealing trail cameras and tree stands are also only crimes if you get caught. And I'd like to break the knees of every camera/stand thief out there ;)
Back to the OP. Rural real estate will likely go down some because of current state of affairs. I don't think it will go down a lot and here's why I think that.
I lump hunting property in with all farm property because I don't think there is a lot of difference between the two, price wise. Farmers claim hunters are paying too much yet the vast majority of sales go to farmers, regardless of how many deer it holds.
#1. I think the price of farm property has increased over the years because of 401K's and IRA's. Many of us are at the point of having access to those funds and we want to purchase something that we can use while we can still use it. That goes for farmers and hunters alike. I recall Rush Limbaugh predicting this 25 years ago and he was exactly right. Things like that stick with me.
#2. A lot of land has sold over the past 10 years as the prices were going up. There's not going to be a lot of "have to"sales going on. Most sellers can wait it out if the price goes down. Those that can't wait will be so few that the supply will stay low and the price will not go down a lot.
#3. Many of those purchasing farm land already own enough to be able to borrow on their equity without much problem. Cash or the current state of the stock market is not a huge factor. If interest rates are low they might be willing to pay more. If I wanted to make a purchase today, I would borrow the money and make payments. As soon as the market rebounds, then I would sell off some stock and pay it off.
#4. I try to pay attention to a lot of sales going on around where I own land. About 80% go to farmers or businessmen who live close to the land being sold. A very small percentage goes to hunters looking for a place to hunt and a place to invest money. If it is really good habitat it can bring a premium for hunting property but not always. Really good habitat doesn't make many bushels of beans so it starts off worth less than good farm ground. We hunters tend to bring the price up on that land but not really over what adjacent, more productive farm land would bring. If the good land is selling for $3,000 an acre and the hunting land is realistic worth only $2,500 per acre based on income, we will pay $3,000 an acre for it.
#5. Farm ground around me has been stable or gone down about 10% in the past couple of years, even before any of this happened. All farming has been less profitable recently and that has had an impact. Because of this, there are fewer pieces for sale.
#6. Once we get past this and Trump get's re-elected, things will take off again. The creators in this country understand that 4 more years of America first and a pile of conservative judges means great things to come.
Just as an FYI. Tillable ground in Illinois with prime soil is bringing $8,000-$12,000 per acre and recreational ground is still between $2500-$4000 per acre for good hunting land. The farmers are still paying big money for good crop ground and with the rates now, lots of people are starting to diversify with land. No better time than right now to buy. When you think back in 20 years everyone will wish they took advantage of this market.
Great post JSW, and thanks for re-aligning this thread. I believe/agree with every point you made. But the virus brings uncertainty. I hope, no, I pray your entirely correct with #6, but what if you’re not? What if the country doesn’t simply “get past” this, and/or what if Trump doesn’t get re-up’d in Nov? That’s the key to the OP’s question. Recession/Depression possible? You bet. So buy now and then what?
The value of my rural land has risen in my mind, considering what's going down in all the big cities right now.
Matt
History has shown that "progressive" left leaning leaders are clueless when it comes to economics. FDR took a depression and made it great and Obama took a recession and made it great. Both men made the suffering last for years instead of months via massive spending and punitive regulations.
If Trump doesn't get 4 more years our future if very bleak. The left has gone so far off the deep end it's ridiculous. It's almost like they want us to fail and want China to take over. Feel free to prove me wrong. Remember, Obama said we can't have a single super power in the world. Progressive writers have also said that the only way to achieve their goal is for there to be a total collapse. Think about that before you vote.
Back to the OP. If Trump loses this fall, the last thing you want is debt. If you can't afford to purchase ground that won't provide an income, you should hold tight.
I saw a great quote this morning. "It took a worldwide pandemic and economic shut down to bring the Trump economy back down to the high end of the Obama economy".
I think it’s very risky to buy recreation property and not pay cash for it, unless there is bank vault tight good income stream that mostly covers the payments, or the purchaser has enough cash to pay cash for it but elects a loan at super cheap level and invests the cash on hand. I bought land mostly for asset diversification in 2009. I over paid and knew that was the case. But “location” made it worth it to me. I paid cash. The property turned out to be great hunting land. I’d do it again, but again it would be cash, no loan.
