Feel free to provide your own definition of “longer”.
I love both challenges and am an active participant in both, but hate when they’re combined. I respect those that can shoot a bow consistently at 120 yards, but have a tremendous lack of respect for those that shoot their bow at 120 yards at an animal and then post it online to influence others to do the exact same thing. I was young and dumb just a few years ago, and remember seeing online videos of folks arrowing animals at 90 yards and thinking it was the coolest thing ever and was something I wanted to emulate.
Years went by and I took a long hiatus from YouTube hunting shows. I began forming my own opinion of what challenge was and the type of hunter I wanted to be whenever I wasn’t devoured by influence from “shock factor” YouTube videos, and that type of hunter wasn’t one that found a dopamine boost from seeking “long shots” but one that found a dopamine boost in my opinion of what ethical hunting was. I only find a dopamine boost if I can truly tell myself I defeated the animal’s senses, and I don’t believe I would have that feeling if I shot at something over 50 yards away.
So long story short, I guess my “limiting factor” isn’t a physical factor at all - but an internal one.
There's also the adrenaline factor. I don't get buck fever badly, but I'd be lying if I said my aim is as steady in hunting situations as it is when target shooting.
Matt
I'm not a snob, I have rolled more than a few critters off the side of a ridge at 500+ yards with a tricked out rifle. I'm just selfish when it comes to bowhunting and want to to get the most satisfaction based on my version of what's fun.
And that makes sense - there’s a lot of that for me, too…
But as you guys have noted, there are some shots where Hang Time pretty much trumps all, even when I’m feeling good about being able to hold into the line… Behavior is a big deal; sometimes you can just see that that animal is liable to move at any time and other times they seem pretty content where they are. But the hang time… it’s just a killer.
Reminds me of the guy I heard about here who had his 15 minutes of fame for killing a ram at 80 yards or something after the sheep had jumped up from its bed and dove in front of an arrow that was headed to a spot about 6 feet away from where it had been aimed…. And the guy who posted a video of his dad muffling a 70-yard attempt on a bull that wheeled around at the sound of the shot and caught an arrow in the back of the brain-case…
And I’m totally on board with the Predatory Rush that comes from being inside the envelope. That’s a big piece of why my average shot distance is pretty much inside of typical stickbow range, even with a scoped rifle. I shot a Whitetail at about 180 (rifle, obviously!) and it just didn’t do a damn thing for me.
At a 60 yard animal, the limiting factor is NOT me - it’s the reality that the animal might not even be there when the arrow arrives.
I know a guy who killed a big muley at 80 yards in a gale force wind. It was an absolute Hail Mary that landed right in the heart. After that he became the advocate for long shots. He wanted to set tree stands up for 60 yard shots despite his batting average being questionable at 20. We don’t hunt together anymore.
But seriously, I like my hunting shots 20 yards and in with my recurve. I know my own limitations and I expect anyone that is serious about their hunting knows theirs as well.
I’ll shoot at any distance reasonable if it feels right with traditional bows. I’m guessing that maximum would be 45 yards or so if my target is well lit.
With my compound, that distance could increase to 60 if the target is lit up and my pins aren’t in direct sunlight. It creates so much blur if it’s the other way around. I’ve had deer within yards of me and not shot with either bow if the lighting was wrong preventing me with an acceptable sight picture. So, with both weapons, it changes dramatically from day to day given the situation. However, if I can see where I want to hit, I can hit it.
I often wander how cool it’d be to be able to shoot a sighted compound like I could when I was younger. I’ve killed a pile of animals with both bows. I lost count long ago when time allowed for 4-5 states a year deer hunting with elk and bear scattered throughout. Yes, it could be worse. But, I think it was Gods way of protecting the animals from me. lol.
Granted I’d love every shot to be 8 yards, but I have taken probably 8 -10 animals in the 55-80 range and ironically my record on those is perfect, something I can’t say about 0-40. Obviously I’ve taken way more shots in close. I trust my gut
First my choices come from experience. Now in the last 10 years, I have not lost a animal. My max shot is 70. I take in to consideration the animals demeanor, arrow path/angle to animal, wind. Coupled with, I try to shoot at least once a week minimum, thats mostly in the off season. I have a ten target 3d range in woods behind my house. I have to setup every time I shoot, targets are laying on ground. If left setup I find them broke and nocked over by bear. After I set them up I can shoot from any distance or angle. For me a perfect shot on a deer hard quartering away maybe a hit right in front of the hind leg. I also have a 30 target, 38 yds, indoor 3d range 25 minutes from my house. I also try to hit 6/9 club 3d shoots a year. Al these gives my the confidence to take longer shots.
But what breaks that confidence is like I said animals demeanor, path to animal and its up/down angle. 60-70 yards I won't shoot at an animal thats a little to quartering away, but will shoot if its in the same spot broadside.
Animals: everything else.
Fartherst I've ever shot an animal confidently is 55 yds. Closest was about 10 yds, avg is 25.
I no longer shoot beyond 50.
Here lately I have been only hunting whitetails and I am not shooting as good as I used to. Not sure if it’s me or the bow or both.
It’s been 6 years since I have shot an animal past 28 yards.
A person can be proud of their long range shots. But the one I am most proud of is a 3 yard shot while being on the ground at eye level with the animal.
To start, they aren’t much of any quieter than a properly designed and out fitted compound.
Second, they are slow enough that when deer hear it, they can easily get out of the way. and, a standing deer, 12 yards out, from a 18’ high tree stand can and will drop every shot. The only question is if he’s alert enough to do it. And, it doesn’t take much to miss high when he is. I didn’t include the doe’s because they are going to be alert enough.
It’s heart breaking to see this go down. And, with the limitations the trad bow creates for longer shots, 20-25 yards is better than 12 on standing deer. The bow doesn’t startle them as much farther out.
IME, I’ve seen more animal movement on the shorter shots where the animal heard my bow go off. Sometimes a little more distance is to your advantage.
Of course distance magnifies everything on the actual shot; trajectory, margin of error
To clarify and worth mentioning because I’ve seen guys take these shots;
I’m talking shots where the animal has not made you. Shooting at any critter thats made you is a license for bad shot location or a complete miss…and its way worse on a critter staring at you out past 50y….heck even 40y. Someone taking those shots is rolling the dice……we aren’t rifle hunting.
When it comes to the animal moving due to the shot itself ( and it has no idea you are there) ….…I’ve personally seen less of that on slightly longer shots, YMMV- grin
Otherwise… I guess I have made up my own distinction between “hang time” and “lock time”….
So (just me) Hang time is a factor on long shots; on a lot of my shots in practice sessions, that arrow is airborne for probably 2 full seconds - feels even longer on a poor release, standing there contemplating the error of my ways and watching to see where that sucker ends up…. If I were standing there watching a perfect shot on a bull dropping into where the 10-ring WAS, a half a step ago, I’d probably have time to barf preemptively…
Lock time, though, is different (again, just IMO); that’s how quickly an animal can react to a shot and move far enough to turn a good shot bad at customary bowhunting ranges.
YES, 100% agreed that there is (or can be) such a thing as Too Close; the definition of that probably varies between compounds and single-strings. I suppose it’s possible for a fast compound to be too fast for a deer to react to at close range, but I don’t think tradbows provide much (or ANY) room for error when they’re really wound unless you guess right about where they’re going. If I’m good and busted, I’m done - unless I can stay still until they forget all about me. On the other hand, a couple of times deer that were more curious than alarmed have basically just stood there trying to ID me until the arrow hit. Those were basically between 20 and 30 yards. And yeah, in my early days there were a few shots (even longer) that got no reaction at all… until the arrow hit something noisy behind them….
I’ve never seen an animal react before the hit when it was already moving steadily, though; not even at single-digit distances. I did have one that was moving hesitantly (it was actually stalking my brother) which froze, mid-stride, and almost caused a problem… I got lucky on that one.
If all that checks out, I have to hit full draw and “feel it” so to speak. If it isn’t good, it isn’t good.
The shot I want is 15-20. The shot I'm willing to take on most animals is 45 on deer-size animals. Animals move a lot. I also don't shoot thousands of arrows per year with a compound anymore, so I'm just not as good of a shot as I used to be.
Remember the 70s. Guys would really launch arrows.
“…and one that I continue to analyze on every shot I take.”
Yup. It’s a long list, isn’t it? I posted mine here once and caught hell for it, as if I were suggesting that I started thinking about all of these factors AFTER I had hit full draw and the animal was in my shooting lane….
Morons. LOL…
My guess is it would be the quantity of arrows he can have in the air at the same time....
Absolutely true. And they wounded animals by the carload, I’m sure. If you look at the best available statistics on bowhunting wounding and loss rates from 50 or 60 or 70 years ago - note that P&Y were big in the 1920s - they are appalling. And back then, nobody really cared. I’m not saying that’s the ideal case or even acceptable, but that’s what it was. That’s not what it is anymore. And if I knew someone who was wounding and losing as many animals as those guys did (or as the “average“ bowhunter did 60 years ago) I would absolutely, positively BEG him to give it up until he’s got his shit together, or just give it up entirely.
People like that… It’s not just that “bow hunting doesn’t need them” it’s that bowhunting cannot survive if they’re not purged from the ranks.
If you really want to see bowhunting outlawed, just continue to advocate irresponsible, unethical practices. It shouldn’t take very long with a strong internet publicity effort. Hell, look around the country. Depending on where you live, we’ve already lost trapping, hound-hunting, bear-baiting and ALL forms of top predator management, so how long could bow hunting take?
Ethics and shot selection are personal decisions, and not for me to critique or criticize.
Far worse is discussing poor outcomes with any weapon on a public forum. That, coupled with pictures of horn porn and hide hunting are massive turn offs to the non hunter voter.
Are you sure that’s not a bit of a cop-out?
I used to give Jim Fetrow absolute hell about some of the shots that he took, but the better I get, the more I am able to understand what’s possible with this equipment in the hands of a truly skilled archer (I’m not claiming to be one of them, mind you). There was a video link posted on the wall recently showing an Englishman who was shooting an accurate reproduction of a war bow, and he was launching a 3 ounce arrow at 193 ft./s from a long bow drawing on the order of his entire body weight. And he was dropping arrows pretty well on target at 200 yards. One well respected authority has stated that English longbowmen of The Day were fully expected to be able to hit a man-sized target at that range. Consistently.
Anyway, at some point, I realized that my limitations aren’t necessarily applicable to others, and I would agree that you really do have to let the results speak for themselves.
So yeah, it’s a fine line between policing our own ranks and just being a pain in the ass Gerry, but it’s not a lot different from speaking up against poachers; we really do need nonhunters to understand that the overwhelming majority of us are responsible, conscientious, and as committed to ethical behavior as we can possibly be.
I guess maybe there are two kinds of bow hunters who will take those longer shots; those who try it because they saw one of their “heroes” pull it off on YouTube and they usually do OK on foam, and then there are those who take those shots because they’ve been hunting successfully long enough to have extremely good judgment as to what they can deliver on in any given situation.
The Masters deserve our respect, but the Wannabes need their asses kicked once in a while…
No Thanks I'll keep my shots close as far too many things can happen during a hunt and we owe the animal a lot more respect than taking iffy shots..
Foam don't care, animals always be aware...-Overheard at a 3-D tournament.
That might be true if you were shooting in a vacuum. But arrows start slowing down immediately, and an animal that can dodge your arrow can ABSOLUTELY take half a step or (as with the ram that dove in front of sone guy’s arrow at 80 yards) jump up from its bed after hearing a foreign sound which they may have learned to associate with arrows clattering into the rocks close by.
You should also try shooting lighted nocks in a crosswind some evening; I was out one night and took a few 70-yarders and was perplexed to see a hard tail-wag on my arrows at about 50-60 yards down-range, even though the shafts had been nicely settled up until that point. But up above the trees in the swamp there, there was a distinct breeze that I’d been completely unaware of until I saw it upset my nicely settled flight.
And while it’s great to practice long (I have one or two targets at the club where I can reach out to 90 or so), even if I could reliably group into a foot, that leaves ZERO margin for error on a deer and damn little on an Elk, which can move a foot just by shifting its weight.
So enjoy your long-range artillery practice, by all means. But 100 yards is longer than the average RIFLE season shot was always said to be, out in CO. JMO, if archery equipment is a “100-yard weapon” and muzzleloaders are now “200-yard weapons”, there’s really no reason for the overwhelming majority of hunters to tolerate these special set-aside seasons for “lesser weapons” anymore, is there? I sure can’t think of any…
