Help… Poor Shooting Right before Hunt
Equipment
My son age 13 has been shooting all summer. Has gotten very good and a week ago was killer out to 40. Last night he was shooting great to 30 but not well enough to hunt at 40. Tonight even at 20 he is all over the place. I made him walk away, I have tried coaching him. I let him shoot all alone. He is missing the target at 20 by feet some times and most of his groups are larger than a basket ball using 3 arrows. To the point where he is afraid to even try a shot with a broad-head.
Any ideas?
I am trying to calm him down, trying to slow his roll, but he is not having it.
Sadly he has a Pronghorn Tag and a Bighorn Sheep Ewe tag we can start hunting this weekend, but right now we both agree there is no way he should be shooting at an animal?
What is the best approach? Last night he was killed at 20 and 30.
Also we only shot about 20 shots last night. Tonight he in going 30 shots but not one group has been decent…
Any help or suggestions?
Target panic and it probably won't go away anytime soon, if there's a lot of pressure on him. some times you just gotta sit back and let him be him. No pressure.
Make sure everything is tight/not worn on his bow. If not that, probably target panic. Lots of info online on how to address, but rarely is it a quick fix.
For a quick confidence booster… Keep him at literally 5 yards or less shooting at something the size of a pizza box… No dot drawn in the center just a big 2 ft square piece of blank cardboard
So hold on…
He’s 13. You’ve set out an expectation that he should be able to take hunting shots at 40 yards.
Lou (Jaq) has been doing this for ages and has all the experience you could ever ask of one person, and 40 is his limit.
The most important thing for a kid that age is to have a positive experience, right? Wounding something is not going to be very positive. And if things go pretty bad, it could turn him off permanently. Just seems like there’s a ton of pressure baked into this from the get-go. Maybe do everything you can to make the whole thing about getting to do a really cool & exciting Hunt together, and if you can get him a chip-shot at a legal animal, so much the better, but if he thinks you’re going to be really disappointed if he doesn’t fill that tag, that just seems like way too much pressure…
Your kid and you know him; I don’t. But unless a sight has gotten wobbly, his problem is between his ears, and asking him to be solid out as far as an Old Pro just seems like a HUGE ask.
Take a full day or 2 off. I gotta do it myself still sometimes
Corax,
No I never expected him to shoot 40. He however, practiced a ton and until yesterday he was shooting a grape fruit sized group at 40.
I think he is putting a ton of pressure on himself. I have tried what I can to clam him down. But he just fell apart tonight.
I did not push him, spoke to him about control, and mental preparation. He kind of did this before hos state shoot this year, was shooting g awesome then last minute just dropped his score by 30 points.
He was practicing to 40 and was good, but in no way did I expect him to shoot that far. Last year he was only good to 20. So his shots were limited to 20 or less. This year I felt Good with his shots at forty until recently…
If you have a local bow shop with a giant target wall, I’d have him shoot literally 40-50 shots a day with his eyes closed. Focus on breathing and trigger control ONLY. After a time or two, start opening eyes and focusing on PINS, not the target/spot. Be so close that there’s no way the arrow hits his pin so he’s not focused on “picking a spot” and only focusing on a steady pin and a slow squeeze. This is the closest equivalent of dry fire practice with a rifle you can get with a bow
If I had to select one thing to try to correct my form (assuming target panic has been addressed), I would focus on "follow thru". It seems like for me and others this has corrected a lot of flaws in form that occur under stress.
How many arrows does he typically shoot in a single practice session? Is it possible he's shooting 'too many'? How many shots before his form starts breaking down? At 13 he's growing and needs rest between workouts. (Don't we all?)
I suspect a few of us have tried to 'power through' a bad session of shooting. Rushing to shoot more. Throwing more arrows when I'm 'off' has never worked well. Just get sloppier. Better to put the bow aside and start fresh tomorrow. One arrow at a time, good form, no sweating 'groups'.
Sounds like he was good at 40 until today. Just chalk that up to a bad day.
I agree, have him take a couple days off.... regroup and relax.
Good luck, Robb
Check the bow and setup. Then leave him to it. You slow your roll and give him his space. If it’s not the bow setup, it’s between his ears. He needs his own time if that’s the case.
All I want to know is how he was killed at 20 and 30??? :)
Relax dad and send him out stump shooting with a dozen arrows. Tell him not to come back in until he has lost every arrow.
Having him do blind bale shooting like Boggs suggests. Get him relaxed and thinking about the process not aiming. Good luck to you on those adventures, spending time with him at this age is priceless
Resistance release Cured my target panic
not sure how you'd fall apart like that, really seemed like something in the bow or the release changed
Several good pieces of advice here. When things go sideways for me, I check the equipment first. Then I blank bale while focusing only on pulling through the shot and follow through. When I return to aiming, I only shoot at big dots as in paper plate size at 10 yards. Make sure the dots are round as your brain automatically centers the pin in the middle. When my paper plate starts developing holes I could possibly aim at, I replace it. And my "dots" get larger as I move back. I supplement "dots" with a cardboard cutout of the animal I'm hunting. I try to keep it life-sized with no aiming points drawn on it. I had a chance to shoot with Dr. Ulmer years ago. He told me he spends 90% of his practice shooting a blind bale at 5 yards.
I'd just wait and see if the problem continues. Everybody has off days and jumping to the assumption that it is anything but that isn't always helpful.
If it's true TP it isn't likely to be corrected in a week using any method.
If it's an equipment problem it should be easy to pin point.
Target panic. He may control it with a few days off shooting or some drills but it will rear its ugly head again until it is addressed.
Target panic means anticipating the release with no follow through. IMO you beat target panic by working on release and follow through. Have him shoot with his eyes closed close to the target. Over exaggerate his follow through. Don’t drop his bow arm until the arrow hits the target.
Not to derail the thread - but what’s interesting to me, is the fact that target panic seems to be an archery only thing. I’ve never heard of anyone having a bad streak with a rifle and calling it TP? There’s always an answer in firearm shooting and at it's core archery is the same concepts of natural breathing pattern, sight focus, and trigger control. I havent experienced it that I know of, so I might just he not giving it the credit that it deserves, but accuracy is all about confidence. If your son hasnt heard the phrase "target panic" before, then I definitely wouldnt tell him. If someone tells someone they're panicking, its a surefire way to actually make them panic. Support him and rebuild confidence and the rest will fall into place.
Great advice here
One thing that might be important is that you mentioned that this has happened to him once before Prior to his state shoot
Might be worth concentrating on what he did then to correct the issue
He is 13. It needs to be fun. When it stops being that do something else for awhile
"Target panic means anticipating the release with no follow through"
Target panic is the fear of missing or as some say the fear of hitting. Yes you are typically punching a trigger with a stationary shot but it can reveal itself in many ways.
If groups opened up that much that quickly, verify the rest / sight hasn't moved.
If this has occurred before, seems like the added pressure of competing or shooting at an animal is taking focus elsewhere.
Might be worth letting things rest for a day or two....or....one arrow at a time at 5 yards to retain form.
When you do get back to any sort of distance, use 1 arrow at a time.
Find a mantra for these moments even if that's just walking through the shooting process as it comes through. "Grip...Draw....Anchor 1....Anchor 2....that's the spot....squeeze"
"Not to derail the thread - but what’s interesting to me, is the fact that target panic seems to be an archery only thing."
Nope. It's not just archery. I've seen rifle shooters develop target panic, as well as shotgun shooters. If it involves aiming and triggering a shot, target panic can rear its ugly head.
I sure hope this is a simple equipment problem, but is sounds like classic target panic to me. If so, your son isn't going to beat it overnight, unfortunately. If you can, post a video of him shooting on Youtube. TP is usually fairly easy to spot, if you know what to look for.
Matt
Blind fold him and have him relax and shoot at 5 yards to just hit center of something big. Watch his form, especially his grip and look for hand torque as well as the timing between his release and what his arm and hand/grip are doing at the release. All good advice given above nothing for me to repeat.
Matt,
The "yips" in baseball, golf and basketball is the same phenomenon in my opinion. Rick Ankiel and Chuck Knoblauch in baseball, Charles Barkley in golf and Markelle Fultz are all examples.
@Elker — seems like you have a decent handle on things; and I know the feeling because my son is the kind of kid who will record an audition piece literally 100+ times to get it right. He’s just a freakin’ Gamer.
You should see him in the gym…
So not likely telling you anything you don’t already know, but do what you can to de-escalate. Don’t talk about shooting to 40 and stay focused on the idea that he’s there to learn to hunt to within 20. This is a life-long journey and he’s getting the privilege of starting out on some hunts that a lot of us will never even have a reasonable hope of being able to take on, whether due to time, health, pref-point issues or whatever.
Filling a tag is always a big highlight, but your Hunt will be a lot more enjoyable if that’s not the only reason you’re there. Worst hunting trip of my life, I tagged out on a huge cow at noon on the opener. Then the work started. Then I didn’t have a whole lot to do.
Every day I don’t fill a tag is another day I get to hunt, and I would much rather hunt than spend my time running a grid search. So enjoy that boy — you don’t have nearly as much time as you think. Mine are now 18 & 20 and there are SO many things I have never gotten to do with them that I don’t dare even think about it; just staying focused on what’s still ahead.
Assuming there is no obvious mechanical problem, it is likely target panic. 90%+ of archers have it or have had it. Many dont know it or won't admit it. You haven't told us what type of release he is using. My guess is its a trigger, probably index finger? TP takes a long time to cure, but a first step that may yield some short term improvement is to switch to a different release style. Preferably a triggerless back tension but your time table is too short for that. So maybe just a different type of trigger. Like thumb instead of index finger. I have a just 14 yr old daughter who has been through all of this recently. We have found her success with releases like Scott Longhorn, B3 Ranger and an Ultraview. Ultimately she will shoot a triggerless hinge full time when her finger strength allows it.
The shooting you describes sounds like equipment issue as a possibility but expect you've checked that. Shooting a bunch with eyes closed, as mentioned above, at a large target from 5 yds can be very helpful in working on form and relaxing without worrying about a bullseye.
The shooting you describes sounds like equipment issue as a possibility but expect you've checked that. Shooting a bunch with eyes closed, as mentioned above, at a large target from 5 yds can be very helpful in working on form and relaxing without worrying about a bullseye.
I agree, Bowfreak. And the problem is, the harder most people try to beat it, the worse it gets. I had a buddy in high school who was an outstanding basketball player. He was a deadly perimeter shooter. Out of the blue, he started missing easy shots in game situations. It got in his head, and then he started missing in practice, as well. It got so bad, our coach was forced to bench him. He quit playing basketball shortly after that.
Call it fear of missing, anticipating the shot, punching, yips, or whatever, it's all a problem between the ears. And there is no one-size-fits-all solution, unfortunately.
Matt
and without question, once form falls off, groups go awry and tiredness sets in - more shooting is definitely having the opposite effect. Sometimes it is better to stick to the "one shot" standard - meaning that is all you get on game, not 5 rounds of practice. How is he on "one shot" ? Maybe just try one shot a day for a while.
At a young age it can be mental. In HS if I made a few bad shots and got in my own head it was over the for they day/ Period. As I got older it got better. Also maybe muscle fatigue? There is a reason body builders work out each muscle only once a week.
Have him draw, anchor, focus on target not the site, settle and think release but do not release. Do this over and over. I had to do it for a week/2 weeks when I got TP bad shooting compounds. Shoot a recurve now, no sites.
As other have said, it is a mental thing unless something it overtly wrong with his bow set up. The other thing is,,, are you 100% sure he wants to do these hunts? It sounds like a full hunting schedule for a young teenager. Possible he may have other things on his mind like sports, girls, etc. You may want to pursue that as an outside possibility.
My name is Blane, and I suffer from Target Panic.
I don't know that it's target panic for your son, I hope not. Mine took a LONG time to develop fully. And mine happens with guns, shotguns, bows, etc. I don't tell this often, but one spring season I missed 5 gobblers with a SHOTGUN under 30 yards. How does that even happen?
First thing I would do is stop him shooting. Check the bow for loose screws and such and make sure nothing has moved.
Second thing I would do is DO NOT LET HIM SHOOT at SPOTS. Spots kill me. To this day. The smaller the spot I'm trying to hit, the more likely I'm going to send an arrow 3-4 feet off target. Or pull the shot with a rifle and miss terribly.
I did two major things to address my TP with a bow: 1. I stopped shooting at spots, and instead shoot at a 3D target. I remind myself that I don't have to hit a dime spot, I have an 8 inch kill zone. I let my pin wander all over that kill zone. Funny thing is most of time I'll still hit a little spot that I'm dancing and waving around. I'm not a target shooter, and I remind myself that I have a big area to hit and don't pressure myself to hit one small spot
2. I got a thumb release. I don't know that I'd push a thumb release at this point with your son. But it is a consideration down the road. You can still punch a thumb release though, as me how I know.
I will also shoot closed eyes at times to work on release. But those two things above have helped me a lot. I'm not cured. I do much better in calm situations like a treestand or blind. Spot and stalk where I feel like I have to shoot quick, I'll still punch one every now and again
With guns I have to remind myself to stay down on the gun and follow through, and that has helped me there tremendously. And again, once a rifle is sighted in, I NEVER shoot at spots.
Bake
It happens all the time. Accept it, and regroup.
Try focusing on tiny spot on target and NOT concentrating on pin. Concentrate on target only all the way through your shot and seconds after. This will help with “peeking”. Which is bow movements caused by trying to find your shot outcome to soon.
Keep sessions short.
Don’t frustrate him, put the bow down and shoot the next day.
Chuck Knoblauch once was trying to throw out a runner at first on a routine ground ball and he threw it in the stands and hit Keith Olberman's mother in the head. It is unfortunate that he didn't hit Keith Olberman.
If not an equipment issue, he’s probably just feeling the pressure from the upcoming hunt and trying too hard resulting in some bad shooting. Target panic usually comes on gradually, at least in my experience.
I would agree that if its not equipment, its likely panic.
Not sure I have ever had target panic, but if I feel myself getting a little punchy/rushed when I am getting near the target I will practice just holding on the target with my finger on trigger and NOT shooting. If he draws, holds, and lets it float on target without shooting - it will help relax his NEED to punch, yank, etc. Do it a bunch and don't actually shoot - just float on target with finger on trigger. Maybe not a cure, but something that I think helps.
Great post Bake! I've also dealt with TP on and off for years and it is certainly not limited to bow shooters. Seems like the pressure of the upcoming hunt has your son questioning his ability. So much of shooting anything is mental. I'd take a few days off to let the pressue ease up and then start out at short distances with big targets and not aiming at a "spot". He'll settle down, I would just try not to make too much fuss over it.
When this happened to my daughter, I had her draw and aim with her finger firmly behind the trigger. Then let down, rinse and repeat until she held steady and relaxed. I would stand beside/behind her and check her hand for muscle tension & try to keep her relaxed while aiming. Then when she least expected it, I pulled the trigger while "checking her hand for tension". It scared the heck out of her...and she hit the bullseye. ;) She got lucky, that made a mental connection with her that relaxing was the key. Might have been a world record time for curing TP, five minutes.
My first thought is a strand is broken in your string. Hard to believe things went that bad that quick and it not being equipment
Shoot less arrows and end practice with a good arrow.
Lots of good advice here. Good to see some Bowsite ghosts from the past back on here! I never had TP when shooting trad (instinctive) but have struggled with it from time to time with the compound. It will leave me for long periods of time, then as with your son, will suddenly pop back up when I least expect it. Part of that is due to my shooting with an established draw-settle-release rhythm after 50 years of shooting trad. My mind wants to follow that same rhythm with the compound.
Two things I did that really help - blind bale and close-up shooting, focusing only on the mechanics, thinking about every element of the cycle, holding the follow through.
The other thing was switching to a Spott Hog Keeton hybrid release. I didn't want to go all in on switching to a different method of release, and after watching Randy Ulmer's video I decided to try it, and it has done wonders for my shooting and my drawing comfort while recovering from a shoulder tendon issue.
Luckily I never have TP on animals, only when trying to hold the pin on that dot on a target.
Relax and let the kid go hunt. By not going could be worse. Sounds like Dad's to excited. And maybe the boy is afraid he is going to let Dad down? Let him go if he misses so what there be more chances. Once the animal is in his sites his problem may end. No pressure just a good time alone with your son. Go enjoy.
Honestly, at 13 years old...target panic would be surprising...especially within a 24 hour period.
Look at bow timing and rest location...just to make sure something hasn't slipped. If his form looks good, make sure he isn't torquing the bow with his bow hand at release.
Also, check his release and make sure it is opening properly. I once missed a slam dunk shot at a big whitetail buck in Iowa. Assumed it was buck fever...although I wasn't feeling that as the buck approached. Shot a practice arrow before climbing down later that day and missed my target by 3ft. Felt it that time...the release was not opening properly. Oiled it up back at camp and all was well...except I did not get another opportunity at a shooter on that hunt!
Maybe target panic? Just sounds strange to go from zero to severe overnight,
Sounds bad. Maybe better wait til he can shoot so you don't get crippled animals followed by worse disappointment. Maybe it is something simple like a rest problem. I noticed my whisker biscuit would occasionally throw shots 6" left at 40 yards but it was easily fixed by straightening the fibers.
I’m guessing it’s not an equipment issue because you said it happened before in a tournament. Lots of good advice above. I’d bet if you try what X-Man said…activating the trigger for him you will see him flinching terribly. He needs to beat that anxiety. I believe the cure can vary from person to person depending how bad the case is.
Try the suggestions above…shoot at close range like 8 feet. My TP was directly related to pin float. The further away I’d practice the worse it would get. I had to draw aim and let down at close range. Then shooting at that range to break down my shot process. Trying to keep the aim on autopilot in the background, while pulling through the shot.
If it’s bad enough you can have him try a tension release. That’s what my wife had to do… she’s killed her last three bucks with a Silverback tension release. It forces her to execute the shot process under pressure. Good luck !!!
I developed target panic when I was in high school. I was fortunate to essentially stop shooting a bow while serving a career in the Army, but after the Army I had to address the TP. After a ton of research, I bought a SCAT release. To be brief, it is a hydraulic release that fires after a period of time. It cured me. Consider looking into this training aid for your child.
One suggestion I haven't seen is give him a couple drinks. Maybe a couple beers or a couple shots of whiskey. ;) Or if you've seen the movie, Major league, I think it was Charlie Sheen who had the equivalent of target panic pitching the ball. He cured it by wearing women's lingerie under his uniform. maybe if he is more focused on that instead shooting that would cure his problem as well. I don't know that either one of those are great suggestions, but probably as good as some of the ones above.
I've struggled with a little bit of target panic from time to time. Couple sessions, blank bailing always helps me. Just focusing on shooting the bow and not aiming is good thing from time to time.
I know it won’t fit you at all, but can you shoot his bow enough to get a feel for whether or not it’s something mechanical or indeed TP?
First of all, thanks for all the tips and support. He got more upset last night and finally broke down. He was letting several things weigh on him and not dealing with them. The biggest was last weekend we spent scouting our favorite deer and elk areas. A new monster sized power line running through our camp ruined that spot. We had another coyote stand ruined by a new road. We covered and insane amount of land and saw almost no lopes and no deer. He just realized that nothing stays the same, that someday our favorite spots might not be an options. He just wants the spots to be like they were etc.
Then yesterday he got a card in the mail from a taxidermist congratulating him on his “Once in A lifetime” sheep tag. Luckily it is a ewe tag and not once in a lifetime, but he then realized that there is a chance this is the only sheep tag he might get. There was more, but those 2 were hitting him hard and when he started shooting he could not clear his thoughts and it got worse, then he got more frustrated, and the cycle repeated. I couldn’t get him to just stop.
Regardless today, was anew day. We started the day off early, did a few chores, accomplished something, build confidence, then packed camp for the hunt tomorrow, then he went and shot and was right back to where he was… I usually can read him like a book, but hormones, growing up or something made him different last night…
I will be posting a hunt thread first as this will get good…
Thanks again. We have home lined out and shooting well again…
Good to hear! Best of luck to him, and ever more importantly, have a wonderful time getting to share these experiences with each other!
Excellent! And that sort of distraction happens to all of us at some point, all throughout life..
Go have a great hunt!
Great news. Just shows how mental archery is.
Happened to me just before going elk hunting,thought it was target panic, took bow to shop and string stretched and cams were out of alignment.We overnighted a prestretched string and was back in business
Good luck!! Sounds like he's fairly results-focused which isn't necessarily a bad thing in life but can rob some joy out of hunting and add unneeded pressure to a youngster. Hope you can help him enjoy the journey! Have fun out there!
Good luck to you guys! Enjoy your time together and all of the experiences that come along with it. Success is not always a punched tag!
Your brain can do amazing things, but times like this it does things subconsciously you do not want it to do. Glad he is through it, good luck.
Yeah, losing a good spot where you feel confident in seeing game can definitely booger your thinking. Glad it's turning for him.
