Baiting/mineral licks/deer decoys
Whitetail Deer
I am not trying to start some internet driven maelstrom here....just looking for understanding. If you are not in favor of baiting, are you also against mineral licks? Why or why not? If you are in favor, your comments are also welcome. If you are not in favor of baiting, are you also against using deer decoys? Why or why not? Again, if you are in favor, your comments are also welcome. I'd really prefer to learn of logic-driven trains of thought.....not the emotion driven ones.
Here we go.....
While we are on it, why is bear baiting acceptable but not deer.
" I'd really prefer to learn of logic-driven trains of thought.....not the emotion driven ones."
the way i see it..."logic" says that deer (and most other game animals) are really only concerned with three things.
food
survival
reproduction
we all try to exploit one or more of those things in one way or another in an attempt to kill them. beyond that it all about legal preferences.
This one has been beaten to death Jake, but I’ll bite. :)
Three reasons for me. One, bucks cannot be trained to come to decoys or even mineral really. Bait can be placed in secluded cover where a big buck would remain comfortable and not have to expose himself to the open setting of an ag field to eat. (People that argue deer are going to eat corn anyway are apparently too dumb to recognize this distinction).
Secondly, it gives folks with little to no habitat/poor wildlife properties the ability to draw deer from those who do. (We’ve learned here recently that fence sitters are scum in Iowa, but Kansas property line corn piles are acceptable I guess).
And lastly, baiting affects much more than the target species. There are multiple predator/prey interactions that are proven to occur at unnatural levels at bait sites. Home ranges of certain prey species shrink in the presence of bait and can affect nest success rates for ground nesting birds (This is probably the biggest for me. Decoys and other technologies obviously have no effect in this regard).
Jake, I think it mostly boils down to how we want to view our "hunt", and what our concept of "fair chase" is. As much as we like to pretend, we are not subsistence hunters. Oh, we may eat what we kill, but most of us could by meat cheaper than what we spend hunting for it. What we are really controlling for is the level of difficulty we want our hunt to entail. Since you asked, I don't bait, don't use scents, don't hunt over mineral sites, and years ago I did try using a decoy, with zero success. I have to say using the decoy was mostly a curiosity thing as a friend gave it to me to try out.
For me it's setting the level of personal challenge for me. When I was young and fit, I was all about boots on the ground after a specific quarry with a weapon requiring practice based skill. Stick bow, habdgun, side hammer ML etc. Now that I can barely walk to a ground blind it's more about keeping going. Yes I hunt over feed plots now. If it were legal I might even put out a mineral block or bear barrel. 20 years ago no way I would've
If you're not breaking the law where you hunt, go ahead and use whatever method you want. After all, we don't have the "right" to hunt. We have the "privilege" to hunt. A privilege that exists for the sole purpose of numbers management and control.
My biggest issue is with the double standards that exist within our hunting community. For example. There are several forum members here who blast crossbows...while sitting over a bait pile, on land they paid to be on, in a stand that someone else set for them. Claiming that crossbows are too easy....
Either accept it all or except it all.
Being a trapper and hunter, I have no issue with any of the above.
I like to hunt public land gravity feeders almost as much as i like to hunt food plots on private land. Sometimes those gravity feeders on public are the absolute best place to sit.
For many, at a big picture level, this comes down to "gotta draw the line somewhere". I believe that is often decided by "feel" (like "this just doesn't feel legit anymore") rather than logic.
...and Jake, you must be bored today! You're not usually a fire starter!!! :)
I think Bou' got ahold of Jakes credentials...
I've always found that minerals draw more deer in the spring when the deer need to recoup from the winter. I've not seen much action on a mineral sight during season cuz I think they are trying to put on fat via mast . Just my personal experience. I have all but quit buying corn not because of some ethical dilemma but more so because I'm tired of hauling them bags around and it does feel a tiny bit better killing one without the extra 30 $ investment .
Only decoys I've used is for turkey, I would like to use a decoy for deer at some point cuz it looks fun but I hunt mostly thick cover or mature hardwoods here in Ohio. Which doesn't lend itself to decoy use so well.
"I've not seen much action on a mineral sight during season cuz I think they are trying to put on fat via mast . Just my personal experience."
My observation is the same. I don't bait, illegal here, but I've hunted where it's 'the only game in town'.
For me, it's about training wildlife to come to a specific small kill site, like bait piles and mineral licks do, versus a much larger area where they have a greater chance of avoiding being shot, like a large food plot. The former doesn't really require any hunting skills or woodsmanship, IMO. The latter at least requires a hunter to adapt his strategies as the animals learn how to use the food plot and avoid danger.
Decoys aren't really in the same conversation, IMO. You don't train an animal to repeatedly come to a decoy. You *may* fool a big buck once, if he's in the right mood, but he'll rarely be fooled twice. Like others, I've never found decoys to be very effective for killing big bucks.
I also agree that's it's a "draw your own line" thing, within the limits of the law, based on what feels right to you, not anyone else.
Matt
Like some others have said, mineral licks are usually very active spring through late summer, and the activity on them tapers to near zero in early fall. So they may be good for providing minerals to deer, when they need them, but there is minimal or no use of them during hunting seasons. At least that’s been my experience. Additionally different areas will see drastic different use of mineral licks. I’ve put salt blocks out in west central Ks and seen zero deer activity on them over several years. I’ve done the same in Oregon and Minnesota and saw them get hammered by deer and elk (Oregon) all summer.
I see nothing wrong with decoys, unless you stake out live decoys. Fake reproductions are fine. I feel the same about the other two lures.
Is sitting on a natural mineral lick equal to sitting over a crop field?
"Is sitting on a natural mineral lick equal to sitting over a crop field?"
Not as good as a natural Gravity Feeder. But close.
I use mineral licks to help supplement the deer, especially in spring and summer months. I hunt a property with a buddy and we don't use bait or cameras on it. I might be old school and I like the challenge. On my own property, I have food plots and feeders. I have a lot of kids hunting and want them to see a large number of deer. They see a lot of does and younger bucks. We don't see very many big bucks around the feeders. My issue on feeders is it has caused a big increase in hogs and raccoons. I believe the raccoons and hogs have hurt the turkey population in my area. I'm thinking about putting a low fence around the feeders and start trapping the raccoons. I like using calls and decoys on anything. For that reason, I enjoy seeing the reaction of bucks and does with decoys. I have had some success with big bucks while using decoys, but sometimes they have caused me not to have success. I still enjoy the experience.
The only logic is that which exists in the mind of the person making the choice or decision.
Jake being from New York maybe you haven’t sat over corn but myself being where I was born you can say I have a few times. Here’s my one cent’s worth.
Like KB said above it involves so much more animals. Here the last few years I’ve used a decoy some. It don’t bring in other animals wanting an easier meal. A few years back in Kansas a coyote came sneaking down the deep dry creek bed. He came down to right where the feeder was about about 5 or so yards from the edge of the bank and just eased up and peeked over for a bit. He knew exactly where that feeder was at and probably did it quite a bit. He looked plenty fat and healthy. Imagine if a lone fawn was there while it’s mother was off with a buck at that time. I’ve watched hawks go back at forth down the draw at another feeder and every so often swooping down trying to catch the quail feeding there. Even the hawks learn where they are.
Had a guy that owns a gun store up there tell me earlier this year that his horse either got really sick or nearly died because a opossum got in it’s feed and I guess contacted a disease from it.
I’ve witnessed coons, badgers, coyotes, and all sorts of different types of animals at corn. Up in Kansas some put big piles out and yes I shamefully will say I had done it myself a few times.
You go back after awhile where a big pile was or still is sitting and you will see piles of feces of all these different animals all mixed in with the corn. Now I ain’t no scientist but that can’t be healthy for any animal especially for the birds and turkeys. Heard they were easily acceptable to diseases anyhow.
So here me and the coyote sit in the brush looking at this pile of yellow junk that I’ve put out. Thought crosses my mind…hell I’m even teaching the coyote how not to hunt and be lazy along with the birds that hunt.
You see I’ve finally seen that it messes up the natural routine of wildlife not to mention all the sickness it can create between animals. I used to do this because I wanted to put some big horns on the wall….if you really think about it some it nearly makes you feel sick.
Some places that still has plenty of deer and wildlife it might not be that big of a deal to keep feeding just as far as numbers of wildlife is concerned. In Kansas though where parts of the state is in serious trouble with declining numbers of all sorts of wildlife this practice needs to stop now….like tomorrow is too late.
KB, sorry, but you are dead wrong about the minerals. The bucks on my place visit the minerals more than they do the protein feeder and I have the pics to prove it.
Baiting/feeding deer creates a major distribution station for CWD. That's been proven. Interesting that KDWP discusses this at length in their precautionary guidelines, explaining how the disease is spread at bait/feeding sites, but they still allow baiting....
Guess I should have clarified Don. I wasn’t speaking towards bucks in July, but rather those who are hungry and/or searching for does during popular hunting dates. They absolutely utilize mineral consistently over the summer, but once the velvet comes off it’s sporadic visits at best in my experience. Maybe in Texas because of nutritional deficiencies in natural browse mineral would have a longer or permanent draw for them? My comments were more Kansas focused as that’s sort of been the center of the baiting discussions around here recently.
Lou, baiting and trail cams are banned on all public and Walk-in properties in KS. Private is next.
Lou, another reason KDWP might not ban baiting state wide in Kansas is a threat of loss of funding. Google Outdoor Life magazine’s interview on banning baiting in Kansas. It’s simple Blackmail.
Not only am I pleased with the tenor of the thoughts that have been shared here, but I am also proud of the civility that has been used .......keep it up.
Deer use the salt and mineral ranchers put out for cattle. I know they will never make them stop doing that. So CWD will be spread there. We are begging states to take our hunting rights away. Crazy!
"Baiting/feeding deer creates a major distribution station for CWD. That's been proven."
does a broadcast feeder create any more or less of a "distribution station" than acorns or anything else falling from a tree naturally...small food plots that are visited over and over and over again as they regenerate...or how about scrapes and licking branches where virtually every deer in a given area sticks their noses in other deers bodily fluids?
at the end of the day...deer spend a whole lot of their lives with their noses in another deers business in one form or another. its how they communicate. thats never going to end...bait or not.
^ True, they will continue to do what deer naturally do, but by eliminating the un-natural congregation around failure piles it will lessen the transmissions...simple math.
Timex, you hit the nail on the head. Here the private land is mostly oak timber, surrounded by National Forest (oak timber). Grain clover and brassica are a huge draw. Planting a few sawtooth oak in a clearing is silly.
Forest nobody is saying we got to stop doing things that are beneficial for cattle and the way things are done in that regard so us humans can eat. Everybody here knows why some people don’t won’t baiting to end and it doesn’t have anything to do with eating the deer….more so on what’s on top of that animal’s head.
Yep I think I heard this at the commission meeting too about this made up excuse scare tactic of…oh their stripping away our hunting rights. Tell me something Forest. You think Iowa or Missouri is wanting to strip hunting rights from hunters. I hunted Missouri for 20 something years and they do everything they can to promote hunters coming there.
The work they put into their public hunting grounds is unbelievable. The problem is they have too many out of state hunters. Iowa really cares about their wildlife too and promotes hunting. Both states don’t allow hunting over bait.
It’s ironic that when a state starts thinking about taking steps to insure that future generations will have a chance to enjoy wildlife there is some of us starts accusing the state is trying to strip our rights. Doesn’t make no sense and everybody knows that is an excuse.
"but by eliminating the un-natural congregation..."
couple things. deer congregating is natural...whether its at a bait station...under an oak tree...or any of the multiple reasons they do it every day.
second...they dont even need to be there together. im no expert but doesnt the prion live in the soil for years? what does that say about food plots?
you say its simple math but is it really? its the same "simple math" that told us face masks reduced the transmission of covid too. but by how much? theoritical yes...practical...not so much.
"simple math" would also tell suggest that smoking 30 cigarettes a day is better than smoking 40 cigarettes a day. practically...?
The more food on the landscape, the less the congregation.
Lord please give me patience when I’m talking to so called educated fellars.
“ Deer use the salt and mineral ranchers put out for cattle. I know they will never make them stop doing that. So CWD will be spread there. We are begging states to take our hunting rights away. Crazy!“
Huh? How is changing baiting regulations taking your rights to hunt away?
Good ole fashion scout an area , hunt it and get familiar with it and as seasons progress you start to see the forest for the trees and harvest deer without minerals , licks and bait. But to each his own all is well
wait until they come up with a vaccine for cwd that can be distributed as an additive to corn in a feeder or a mineral lick.
i wonder if the reasons for not wanting others to bait might change?
"We are begging states to take our hunting rights away. Crazy!"
I don't see it that way. I think it's about preserving a certain level of hunting ethics and fair chase. Just like other hunting methods that have been banned, like jack-lighting and hunting from aircrafts.
Matt
It's as much if not more about fair chase for me, please don't misunderstand. Lessening the transmission of disease is just another reason, among many, to eliminate baiting.
P.S. It is simple math, all the italics and bold print in the world can't change that.
Jack lighting is legal in many states for a certain group of hunters, same with baiting. Prohibited for other groups of human hunters.
LOTS of really good thoughts/points here. We get satisfaction form our hunt. More and less depending on how we hunt. I have done them all, when/where legal. My stalk trad bow kills in my socks w critter in its bed rank at the top for me. Satisfaction is relative to the process. I still say the HUNT is the trophy, Sometimes its a big trophy sometimes smaller.
When I learned to focus on important things in life, hunting became far more enjoyable.
It bears repeating... there's no such thing as "hunting rights". Speaking in such language is not only wrong, it shows a degree of entitlement that fuels the anti's.
Antis need no fuel. Hunting is a basic human instinct and we WILL hunt. Witness the "Robin Hood" legends.
I have two trains of thought on the subject. The first is "can it be a biologically negative impact". to date I have not been convinced that either practice (baiting or mineral licks) is a meaningful threat to deer. But I could well be ignorant. I do think baiting will be determined to be a negative impact on turkeys but I am still on the fence on this one. Maybe not in areas with short seasons. But in SC, baiting for deer goes from August into January. But I don't think this was the intent of your query.
From a hunting standpoint, I am not against any of them. I do find it somewhat paradoxical that many of us took up bowhunting for the challenge and then we look for ways to make it easier. Anything we manipulate makes it easier or else we wouldn't be putting forth that effort. To me the ultimate would be killing a mature buck in December in my home state on the ground (not in a ground blind) with nothing other than my ability to pattern and play the wind and odds game using natural cover with minimal manipulation. But that's what ticks my clock is the challenge and increasing the challenge. Not against anything legal and biologically sound. As an aside, I am against using gobbler decoys for gun hunting turkeys. It is just stupid easy and I find myself stretching to support something legal that in no way is difficult. I do think hunters should ask themselves why they are doing what they do. I am in no way a high fence advocate, but it isn't far off the means to an end that many can enjoy to put a rack on the wall through any legal means necessary with a bow.
I have and will bait again at some point. But I do not trick myself into thinking I am growing to a challenge and growing as a hunter through that means. Deer decoys I do not have an opinion on. I think it comes down to are you pushing yourself to get better and understanding characteristics of your quarry that help you grow as a man (or woman, if you bait regularly, ha...) and hunter. Hunting reflects my life pursuits, I want to push myself to get better in all walks of life.
In my state, almost every CWD case has been found in a pen. Deer breeders are the main source. There are a lot of “unknowns” concerning CWD, we think we know where it originated, but do we ? We know where it was first discovered but is that where it originated ? We don’t know ! We can’t prove where or how it started. We can postulate, we can quote scientific papers, we can share links, but we can prove very little. Kinda like Covid. We can’t vaccinate for it, hell we can’t even be sure a live deer has it or not. The deer has to be dead last time I looked for it to be confirmed dead by CWD. So just how reliable is the information we receive about CWD ? I’m with Ricky, deer communicate with their mouths and body fluids, I can’t see food having much of an impact whether it’s under an oak tree, in a clover plot, or around a spin cast feeder. If I’m wrong, our descendants may know, as slowly as CWD moves, but we don’t.
Bait, as in a bait pile for deer and other deer type animals? That is/was one of the worst things I have seen happen to deer hunting public forests. Localizing, changing habits and causing more nocturnal habits for what? Deer type animals are easy to hunt without baiting them if you learn how and where to hunt them. Baiting shuts down movement from what I have witnessed. Lot of people here in WI fill their doe/fawn tags that’s about it. Deer know the game and smell you every time you freshen up the pile. They wait till after dark then come in, except for the fawns. I for one would hope they shut it all down in WI. Bear? No issue with baiting here, about the only way to get them here. That or dogs. Out west you can spot and stalk. Mineral licks fall into the same category but not as bad because you place them and leave them. Decoys? Why bring into this conversation? Not related, nor is scent, rattling or calling. Bait piles cause issues for all that hunt. It also makes a great place for wolves to hunt if your unfortunate enough to have them things.
Baiting and hunting over mineral licks are illegal in Illinois. I wouldn’t want to hunt over a bait pile, but I’ve never hunted anywhere except Illinois and hunting elsewhere could change my mind. I’ve never tried using a decoy and have never really considered it. I’m personally on the fence about the ethics of hunting over food plots. Seems to really border on baiting to me. I’ve never put out a plot because all of the farmers around me put out several hundred acres of beans and corn every year. I can see where a plot in could help me hold deer in late winter. So maybe I’m a bit hypocritical for hunting around so many planted fields, but I figure that there’s nothing I can do about it. The deer will eat what’s available to them.
My love for bowhunting is because the challenge and I personally have no interest for baiting animals. I have no problem if others do just not for me. I would think decoys would fall under calling tactics more than bait. I run a guide service on Kauai and hunt hogs over piles of bait. At first, my concern was that no hunter wants to sit over a slop pile and shoot a pig, boy I was wrong! A lot of hunters said it’s just like bear hunting over bait which I realized is true. Growing up, I took pride in my big boars I have shot, but no pride if they were in a slop pile. I had no idea people drop massive piles of corn for whitetail. I have been interested in doing a whitetail hunt one of these years so it’s good to know that’s how some hunts work. I would be very disappointed to be put in a stand in front of a pile of corn. But I’m fine if others like to hunt that way
On another note, if you think hunting a bait pile is truly hunting, do you feel that hunts like the sub guy(jimmy johns or something) hunting governor tags with an entourage is truly hunt? I have no problem with either but I do know there’s a major crutch in success.
Kodi, after watching your moose video probably a half dozen times I have no doubts you could tackle a DIY whitetail adventure without corn!
Well, they bait in Canada , that's for sure...
RCG there won't be a vaccine for CWD. The immune system can be trained to respond to microbial, viral, and even endo parasitic stimuli, but prions are not living organisms so they can't be killed by the immune system.
"RCG there won't be a vaccine for CWD."
i was being somewhat facetious with my statement about vaccines and bait. it was more an attempt to illustrate how the the popular reason for opposing something might not actually be the real reason for opposing something.
even so...dont be so sure about never having a vaccine for cwd. technology has a way of making the impossible possible. (see link)
"but prions are not living organisms so they can't be killed by the immune system."
this is why many believe that eliminating bait will have virtually no meaningful impact on the spread of a prion that exists indefinitely on the landscape.
Based on most of the comments on this thread, I don't think the
popular reason for opposing baiting is CWD. But there is quite a bit of compelling evidence that baiting does increase the rate of a host of different parasites and pathogens, like lice, ticks, mites, mange, tuberculosis, and brucellosis, in addition to spreading CWD.
I know some people balk at any type of scientific research if it doesn't support their pre-conceived opinions, so I won't bother providing links.
Matt
"Based on most of the comments on this thread, I don't think the popular reason for opposing baiting is CWD"
granted...popular probably wasnt the best term...but i still think you missed the point.
let me put it more directly. there are a lot of people that dont want to admit that their primary reason for opposing baiting is simply the fact that they dont want someone using a pile of corn to draw "their buck" away from them.
claiming its for the health of the herd sounds a lot better than "i put a lot of time...money...and effort into attracting and keeping deer on my land until im ready to shoot them...how dare you lure them away from me with a $10 back of corn."
same goes for the arguments about antler point restrictions...crossbows...cell cams...etc. its about someone else having a perceived advantage.
if you dont think thats accurate...go to the the "CWD you eating them" thread and take note of those that have no concern about CWD...and then compare that to those who are all of sudden concerned about it when it comes to baiting.
two examples of what people said on that thread...
a: " I've never had one tested, and don't worry about it. People were eating CWD infected deer for decades before it was even discovered."
b: "Don't test, not worried"
...compared to what they said on this thread...
"a: "But there is quite a bit of compelling evidence that baiting does increase the rate of a host of different parasites and pathogens, like lice, ticks, mites, mange and viruses, in addition to spreading CWD. I know some people balk at any type of scientific research if it doesn't support their pre-conceived opinions..."
b: "Baiting/feeding deer creates a major distribution station for CWD. That's been proven."
i wont mention any names but for some...arguments seem to change depending on their "preconceived opinions"...or even who they see as their opponent.
KSflatlander's Link
A virus isn't a "living" organism either. I have to agree with Ricky that a vaccine may be possible. See link.
"I have to agree with Ricky..."
time to buy a powerball ticket...thats the sign ive been waiting for. :)
Ricky, like I said, I don't think most people oppose baiting solely because of the spread of CWD, I know I don't. So, I don't think there's any contradiction in what I posted here and on the other thread. But, the spread of CWD isn't the only known health issue that baiting can increase the spread of. So, I understand the concern about that side of the issue, as well.
One thing is certain, there will never be a consensus on baiting, just like many other controversial hunting methods. Fortunately, the general public isn't tasked with making wildlife management decisions and regulations, unless you live in a ballot initiative state like I do, of course.
Thanks for the thread, Bruce, It's been a good discussion.
Matt
As I've noted a hundred times, I have been killing deer in KS for almost 30 years. Had access to "10'000" acres of written and verbal permission. Nobody baited, nobody had cameras, and we all hunted the same deer. Many ranches were like public land because the ranchers hated deer and would give permission to anybody. The nonresidents showed up and brought their damned towers, then feeders. I watched the home range of open country whitetails ( I can see 20 miles across the hills from several of my spots I've hunted for 25 years) shrink to practically nothing. Large bucks used to range miles and miles, giving opportunities to many hopeful hunters. I spoke to an outfitter this rifle season that kept driving past the gate I park at. He was curious if I was trespassing on "his" property. He ended up bragging "his" bucks never leave his 900 acre lease because he has all the "feed" and cover. Interestingly enough, his lease has some large grain fields the deer never visit anymore in daylight like they did when I was in high school. They stay back in the wooded meadows where he dumps tons of corn. Baiting has single handedly disrupted the historical movements of deer that often ranged miles, from acorn ridges, to crop fields and pastures. The baiter is the culprit, the guy that doesn't want to share " his deer", hence the baiting, hence the outcry and gnashing of teeth from greed driven outfitters. The non-baiter often hunts on hopes of chance, on his own skills of identifying sign and correct travel corridors and habitat. The baiter possesses no skills, but relies on the easy way out, the most primitive powerful urge known to animal, it's hunger. I once planted a measly 2 acres of a wheat/turnip plot. Deer visited daily, and I was never given an archery opportunity on that tiny plot. Plots are not the same as a corn pile. End of story.
Decoys: Mine has been sitting in the rafters of my shop for almost ten years due to it spooking everything that saw it. Watch some of the live hunts on here, very hit or miss on mature bucks with decoys.
Mineral licks- I don't have enough experience to have a say for my area. I've built 4 ponds on my farms with equipment I owned or rented, and 1 farm the deer came out of the woodwork to paw and eat at the newly exposed soil. They never touched a salt block across the creek.
"Ricky, like I said, I don't think most people oppose baiting solely because of the spread of CWD..."
i dont either...but for many its a better sounding reason than the ones i mentioned in my previous post. lets be honest...if deer didnt have antlers...very little of this would matter. who gets territorial about does? who complains when a doe is shot before shes fully mature?
The boys in the south run deer with dogs. Guys do deer drives in rifle season in alot of states. Both are methods i completely disagree with. I dont think its really hunting, but i would never lobby to have their rights to do so taken away. There will always be a group that thinks you shouldn't hunt any other way but the way they do it. Giving any of our rights up is a slippery slope no matter if you agree with them or not. We saw it in Colorado with spring bear. First they took baiting then they took the season. Im a big fan of not telling people what to do on their own property.
Forest - for dog driving, I don’t want it illegal but I would like to see it regulated differently. Either with a minimum acreage requirement or a way of substantial penalties and enforcement if dogs leave the property.
Just a perspective that different ways of hunting cannot fairly be managed under a single set of regulations and something similar may be necessary for baiting deer to allow protection of turkeys in some areas.
You don't have the right to poison wildlife, decimate the herd structure, and alter the entire landscape of and around hunting. You do have the right to hunt, try it sometime here in KS Forest...I think you'd like it.
Wrong again sitO! He literally has the right according to the laws of the state of Kansas. But I forget apparently you're God almighty capable of bestowing rights upon people.
I’m with Thornton on the baiting, it’s gotten so out of hand and has merged with the popularity of archery equipment to become a double edged sword that has changed the impact of archery seasons. In states like Ohio and Kansas which have been quality states largely because of gun seasons outside of the rut it is starting to have true impact. Then couple that with cellular cameras on the bait piles an you have a real game changer
Baiting isn’t wrong or unethical but it has real effects on harvest and animal movement
couple questions for those that think baiting alters the natural movement of deer.
first of all...what is the natural movement of deer? where i hunt, the natural movement of deer is basically to and from bedding and feeding areas... and those change significantly depending on the time of year and the availability of food.
second...doesnt everything pretty much change those "natural movements?" does building a food plot change them? does building neighborhood where a farm used to be change them? does logging change them? does a fire change them? does crop rotation change them? does hunting pressure change them? deer are very adaptive creatures...they change based on what benefits them the most.
how does the public land big woods hunter feel when a private land owner in his section clears a couple acres and plants a food plot...or two...or three? or how about the farmer that leaves few rows of corn standing...or creates a little "spillage" for his family and friends to hunt over?
if we are being honest...is it the change of natural movement that really bothers us...or is it the change of natural movement...that doesnt benefit us...that bothers us the most.
Others baiting has become an excuse for those who are too lazy to get out of their tower and actually hunt a deer up.
This link is a study that radio-collared 44 mature suburban does to research how temporary bait sites altered their movements. They found that bait sites didn't significantly change their annual home range, but they did change their core areas, if the bait was placed outside of their normal core area. Also, every collared deer used the bait sites.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261825756_Effects_of_Temporary_Bait_Sites_on_Movements_of_Suburban_White-Tailed_Deer#:~:text=We%2520concluded%2520that%2520temporary%2520bait%2520sites%2520had%2520no,more%2520vulnerable%2520to%2520management%2520activities%2520at%2520bait%2520sites.
In this study, they used dozens of game cameras on 4 different large properties to track how temporary bait sites affect the movement of bucks. As with the above study, the bait sites didn't significantly change the buck's home ranges, but they did change their core areas and concentrate the bucks closer to the bait sites.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8388532/#:~:text=We%2520found%2520little%2520evidence%2520that%2520short-term%2520baiting%2520affected,enhance%2520disease%2520transmission%2520and%2520change%2520harvest%2520susceptibility.%2520Abstract
So, it's no surprise that baiting can alter deer movement, concentrations, and core areas, but it doesn't significantly alter overall deer populations in home ranges.
Matt
"...the bait sites didn't significantly change the buck's home ranges, but they did change their core areas and concentrate the bucks closer to the bait sites."
youre right...no surprise. im sure the same could be said for food plots...maybe even more so because they are more permanent.
For those who think baiting does not alter behavior, movement, mainly times of movement, your either a baiter or have never hunted public forests. The question always comes in, "I have or what if the adjoining private landowner has a bait plot, LOL, bait plot? Who cares, I hunt generally miles from private property and if I did hunt next to someone with a bait plot I guess I know where the deer are going. But, do they go out and dump new bait in a bait plot continuously? Does a farm field of corn get recorned every week? other day? No. I did not give a rats ass about baiters at first till I all of a sudden started to not see deer. Then I started looking for deer in other areas only to find sign going to bait piles. It looked like bike spokes going in and out of them. Then through the years these baiters complain of not seeing deer and all photos are at night. Well, dah. So if you want to "plant" A food plot next to public forest, go for it, it would help anyone that hunts that public land. You want to screw hunting up for you and everyone around that wants to hunt, put a pile of corn out.
I'm surprised how many people on this thread have had bad luck with decoys. Most of the older bucks I've shot where with a decoy. In my opinion decoys are by far the easiest way to get within bow range of a mature buck. A close second is late summer feeding patterns.
"For those who think baiting does not alter behavior, movement, mainly times of movement, your either a baiter or have never hunted public forests."
no i dont bait (its illegal here)...and yes i hunt both private land and public forests.
so again...ill ask the question. how is that different than a food plot?
deer become nocturnal not because of the presence of bait...they become nocturnal because of the presence of hunters (danger). if you over hunt a food plot...deer will avoid it like the plague during daylight hours...no different than a bait site...an oak flat...or an apple orchard.
if what you say is true about your "bike spokes" leading to bait sites...and i have no doubt it is...seems to me that if you learned to hunt the staging areas around them you would clean up. deer arent dropped from the heavens on bait sites after dark....they live there...all day...every day.
"I'm surprised how many people on this thread have had bad luck with decoys."
depending on where im hunting...i like to use a 2 dimensional decoy every now and then and youre right...if for nothing more than occupying a bucks attention...they are very effective...if you can keep from laughing out loud.
bucks tend to circle the decoy when checking them out and their reaction when the decoy "disappears" is comical. lol
The only time I have hunted over bait was in Texas. Once was in south Texas for deer and the other was in East Texas for hogs. Most states I hunt in don’t allow baiting so it’ doesn’t really cross my mind much. However I really don’t have a preference if baiting was allowed or not. In south east Ne were I do most of my rut whitetail hunting there are corn fields everywhere. The timber I hunt in is small wood lots, river bottom and creek bottom country. Sure corn heads on combines are more effective these days but there is still some waste grain in the fields. The only advantage I could see to have a corn pile in the timber is it would provide another food source in cover. Other wise there is corn everywhere in that area. The nice thing about a sept 1st opener in Ne the beans are still green. The summer draw to green beans can be taken advantage of. Not sure how a corn pile would affect deer feeding.
As far as minerals go I have used it for cameras but honestly it’s never crossed my mind to hunt over it.
I have a love hate relationship with decoys. In certain situations they are very effective. One piece of ground I hunt has a lot of does and from what I have witnessed a decoy can do you more harm then good there. Every doe is going to react different to a decoy. Some will avoid them some are curious and some just freak out. Got to love when a doe sits and blows at your decoy for a half hour.
so again...ill ask the question. how is that different than a food plot? A food plot does not have continuous human scent coming in and out of that one 5'x5' spot in the woods, that is what makes them nocturnal. You would have to be around a bait pile to see the effects of it. Do people think deer are that dumb? There is a pile of corn "food" in the woods, then 50 yards away there is a new blob of a pop-up blind, it stinks to high heaven with human scent, hmmmm I wonder if there is a human here. As far as hunting the bike spoke trails coming to them, I have been pushed to hunt these but hunting after dark is illegal in WI, LOL. Plus, I am a considerate hunter and I expect others to be considerate hunters. I see a vehicle parked in an area, I go to another. So, sitting a trail going to a bait pile does not interest me much. But, when there are ?#'s of bait piles scattered around, pretty hard not to hunt them because all the deer in the area are going that way.
If you put out a mineral lick during hunting season that's called baiting. If I'm against baiting but I use a decoy that is the same? Don't see the logic in your question.
A food plot does not have continuous human scent coming in and out of that one 5'x5' spot in the woods, that is what makes them nocturnal."
just like anything other hunting tactic...use them correctly and they are very effective. use them wrong...and they arent likely to be very successful. if you over hunt a food plot...without paying attention to scent...it will go cold during daylight hours...just like a bait pile...or a stand site at any food source...bedding area...or any travel route between them.
"You would have to be around a bait pile to see the effects of it. Do people think deer are that dumb? There is a pile of corn "food" in the woods, then 50 yards away there is a new blob of a pop-up blind."
how is it then that so many people take deer over bait...including mature bucks? first you claim its like shooting fish in a barrel...and then you claim the deer would have to be dumb to fall for it. which is it?
with all due respect...who is the one being dumb? if there are bike spokes leading to a bait pile...and a person cant find the deer that are coming to it before they get there...well...ill just leave it at that. its a rhetorical question.
if bait is legal in your area (and even if it isnt... and people are still doing it) use it to your advantage. the deer still live there...like someone else said..."hunt em up."
Ricky I like you a lot better when you're pedantic about hunting. Lol
The deer do come in and feed on it, just when they know the person is not there. In WI public lands, I do not here of many mature animals being shot off them. Mostly yearlings and fawns are shot. Throughout the years, I have come across many of these sites and the deer around them are pretty tough to "hunt up". Yes they do live there, but if the movement is after shooting hours, how do you "hunt them up"? Yes, if rut is on, you can hunt away from them and find day time movement. If not, the movement is not there. What does it matter if you find the trails coming to them if they do not use them till dark? I have throughout many years tried with no avail. I have had to hunt around them, so from experience I know. Not theory, but in the woods hunting experience. Quoting on questions you have no experience on is a mute point and has no credibility.
Another thing, why is it I know a few people who started baiting but quit after they realized it was wrecking there hunt? They go out, bait, sit it with no sightings but bait is gone. Put more out, sit it with no sightings but bait is gone. One guy said he never saw a deer on stand with a rifle. One night he had 100 plus pics of deer after he left. The next night the same. All movement started 15 min after he left. He quit baiting but others around him baited so your back to no movement anyway.
Live2Hunt, you obviously haven't followed the "Live Kansas" hunts that are featured here every year.
Matt
"Quoting on questions you have no experience on is a mute point and has no credibility."
does that include assuming you know more than you do about the people you are speaking to? You have no clue what my experience is. bait is illegal in michigan...now. ive been hunting for close to 50 years. ive successfully hunted over bait in michigan and other states as well as canada. ive hunted food plots...oak flats...farm fields etc...and have been successful at pretty much all of them. even tried a few spot and stalks on whitetails and have yet to be successful at that.
now...how about answering a question for me. if there are enough deer in your area to create "bike spoke" paths to bait sites...are you seriously suggesting you cant figure out where those deer are bedding and traveling to and from those sites?
are you seriously suggesting you cant figure out where those deer are bedding and traveling to and from those sites? LOL, I did answer that question a few times, you can find where they are bedding and where they are coming from, but if you cannot see them during legal time, you are out of luck. Do you think they will stay where they are bedded for me to walk up and shoot them? Seriously you need to think about it.
Natural food sources, farm fields/bait plots do not have the effect on deer that a bait pile does. Food plot and a farm field are basically the same and they do not alter time of movement I have seen in WI forests as a bait pile. Of coarse the big problem in WI now is there are very few deer left on public forest areas like there were in the past and they do not rebuild anymore.
Still hunting has become a lost art, hunters are too lazy to leave their perches.
Your right Missouri, still hunting is a great way to hunt, so is tracking, so is a stand in a good location. I employ all of them every year depending on the situations. Mainly still hunt during the day and sit the morning and evenings. This year I mainly still hunted as there was no snow, and with very few deer you could not sit a stand because you could not find the sign to sit. If sitting on a "perch" over a bait pile is hunting to you, you need to try hunting once. Is that the point you were making?
Live2hunt, what do you think about food plots that were standing corn, that has been bush hogged, putting 150+ bushels per acre on the ground. I’m not for/against that where legal. But there’s food plots and there’s plots with 100s of bushels of corn on the ground in an area bigger than a feeder or pile. I would think that those kinds of “plots” sure do impact deer travel.
No, I did not mention baiting in that post. But, hunters who complain about nocturnal deer and altered patterns because of others baiting and plotting, simply lack hunting skills and blame their inefficiency on on others. I do not care if others bait, I always found the deer. Even the 30 plus years I hunted public paper company land, I was successful more times than not, with a selfbow. Hunt them up boys, the deer do not leave earth. They are always out there. Do not become lazy, and predictable. And, no whining please.
Of coarse oh masterful hunter sitting on your private land belittling others. When is the last time you were on public land? Been awhile the way you talk. Do you think it is a big challenge to take deer on private land? It does not take much, been there done that. You, again, the way you talk, have no clue what has happened to the public land. Please don't throw our county DNR stats out there unless you break out public and private kills. I have no problem with plotting on private lands, none whatsoever, it just makes it easier to hunt those deer on public adjoining land if it is there, so please do that.
Large food plots, oak flat, clearcut, etc. Great, I will hunt them anytime as the deer will move to them unhindered. Again, 49 years of hunting and I have seen and done it all. I know deer, deer movement, patterns and what changes them. The whining is all yours.
I was talking to a friend in Wyoming who had a ranch that has the only available water for miles in either direction. He had every antelope in the country watering on him. He is pissed now as his neighbors on both sides added dirt tanks on their property. Can you believe those guys? They did this simply to train the antelope to come from his small specific kill site to their small specific kill site. Next thing you know they are going to add a center pivot of alfalfa too!
A water hole, how about a spinner?? Hey, what time does the spinner go off? 4:00? Well its 3:30, better get out there. LOL
I never ever mentioned any names, let alone belittled someone. It is my opinion, some hunters ( in general ) have become lazy and whinny. Repeat offenders.
"Seriously you need to think about it."
i have thought about it...and ive come to the conclusion that your issues have very little to do with lack of deer and bait.
and ive come to the conclusion that your issues have very little to do with lack of deer and bait.
LOL, come to the great public lands of WI, or MN, deer everywhere, LOL. Why do you think there are meetings now up here, because there are too many deer, LOL. Better do some research before you type. Not the lack of deer, that there is funny.
"Better do some research before you type. Not the lack of deer, that there is funny."
im just taking you at your word...maybe that was a mistake. wasnt it you that said that there are "bike spokes" leading to the bait piles. must be squirrels and raccoons leaving those spokes. :)
Bike spokes 25 years ago, yes. Baiting started the decline of decent deer hunting the public lands here. Yes there were deer, and yes I shot deer, but people staking out there little spot in the woods because they put a bait pile there, leaving notes on vehicles that this is there spot, the issues with TIMES of movement were ridiculous. Deer hunting was better for all prior to the start of baiting. Then they decided to reintroduce wolves which declined the deer herd big time. Throw in a couple hard winters and more than normal numbers were taken out. Then lets throw in xgun full inclusion so the ones that did not want to bow hunt or bowhunters who could not hit anything could use a gun and fill there doe tags and get there buck during the rut without issue. Now today, no deer, unhuntable populations in areas. Yes I can get deer, but it may be the only one I see in range of my bow. Rifle hunting, well, I have not shot a deer with a rifle in a number of years and I believe the last one was a doe on private land. Bike spokes now? well they are a sad bike wheel nowadays. Good thing this year where I rifle hunt? baiting was outlawed. Bad thing? no deer left to seize the moment. Again, I am there/here hunting it, not sitting behind a computer saying things I know nothing about.
Seems to be very , very little provable science involved in any of the differing opinions.
But, then again, nobody needs science to prove what they already fervently believe.
I am also in the group that dislikes baiting because it changes deer movement in an unpredictable way. We can scout and find bedding areas and travel routes and set stands. Acorns drop from the same trees at the same time. Food plots are somewhat predictable. We can see what is in the ag fields and monitor harvesting. What we have no way of knowing is when a neighbor throws out corn a week before archery or gun season and causes the deer to shift movement patterns. Months of preparation can go up in smoke overnight. Mineral licks and decoys do not do that.
All the whining about baiting moving deer are from people not using bait.
They argue at the same time it makes deer predictable to the bait but unpredictable to their stands without bait. Go figure
Wild, LOL, as long as the baiters can hunt after dark they are in!!
"There's corn piles everywhere!"
"You can't walk a hundred yards in the bush without tripping on a corn pile!"
"Every jackwad from town is dumping corn everywhere!"
"From my kill plot stand, I can see three corn piles across the fence!"
"The feed store literally shovels trucks full of corn in the fall!"
Ok. To me I'd say all those scenarios would be spreading deer out, not concentrating them to one spot. Unless of course ALL the deer gather together and walk from pile to pile.
You are correct Ambush. The more places to dine, the less the concentration . Limiting available food sources does not spread the herd out, a third grader could get that one right.
"You are correct Ambush. The more places to dine, the less the concentration . Limiting available food sources does not spread the herd out, a third grader could get that one right."
so are you saying bait could actually help in reducing CWD transmission?
:)
Good question. I think Faucci politics played a role in the baiting issue.
Fauci that is, do not want to offend his fan base with a spelling error.
"I think Faucci politics played a role in the baiting issue."
maybe fauci politics will play a role in the cwd issue too. :)
Also many complaints about hunting over bait is too easy, or no wordsmanship or un fair advantage-
How does rifle hunting out of a "Redneck" blind over an Ag field shooting a deer at XXX yds compare to the ease of shooting a deer over a bait with a bow? Is either considered "hunting" to the non-baiters?
Most of the angst comes from those who choose not bait in areas where it's legal to bait. Then complain incessantly how the "neighbor baiters" are ruining their deer and making it harder to kill the "neighbors deer" since it won't cross the property....
I have seen first hand how a feeding program can grow a deer herd 5 times what it would be without supplemental feed. Is that good or bad? of course more deer= more predation, but the overall numbers are way higher.
Also it has been argued bait is not natural- What is natural about a food plot? what is natural about ANY Agriculture for that matter! Big commercial farms actually have reduced habitat for all wildlife. Baiting may be seen as getting food source back closer to cover thus helping wildlife- many ways to look at it.
Well said wildwilderness!
Wild wilderness, common sense has no place on a hunting forum.
Again, you can tell who the baiters are and the ones that are clueless on the effects of it and are sitting on the private land saying how beautiful everything is. LOL funny stuff guys, keep it going!!!
WW, if deer were the only native species to consider your thoughts would have a lot more merit. As was discussed up a bit in this thread, landowners have every right to do what they want with their properties. But it is sad that the need to acquire antlers has allowed thousands of acres to turn to shit for many other species, some of which are in much greater need. And then as a double whammy baiting further complicates their livelihoods.
It helps the private landowners when no baiting is allowed on nearby public lands. That is why QDM food plot guys are against baiting. Private bait plots suck the deer right in. Believe me, I know from experience.
I also get a sense of Resident vs Non- Resident anger as well-
Sure if you have all season to hunt and only 1 buck tag it may not be a big deal to play cat and mouse trying to guess right on an ambush point, and you can mock those who don't do it your way. but most NR don't have that amount of time.
I travel and hunt all over the world. I will do what it takes to maximize my time in the field. If using bait is legal and increases my odds of success, I don't have an issue using it. Many areas are very difficult to hunt, like Arkansas pine thickets, or say Saskatchewan big woods etc where bait is most likely the difference between success or not.
Another huge factor is baiting does help identify the deer on a given property. I am able to target certain deer and help the overall age structure and future trophy potential. Sitting and waiting for a certain size or age class deer that doesn't exist in the area is a poor use of my time.
Many claim that bait is too easy- then at the same time others complain it makes deer nocturnal and too hard! There is no guarantee about a bait and killing a certain mature deer! Sure it does make some deer more predictable, like does and young bucks, but so does an apple tree, or an oak dropping or a corn field. Mature deer still have their senses and are still difficult to kill.
When targeting certain deer, I will use all legal means to help me as long as I still enjoy the chase. It's my time, my hunt and my enjoyment and I don't need someone else telling me I'm doing it wrong.
It helps the private landowners when no baiting is allowed on nearby public lands. That is why QDM food plot guys are against baiting. Private bait plots suck the deer right in. Believe me, I know from experience. Love it Misery, Send me a link to your property so I can hunt the public next to it. I believe all private land owners that have land butting up to public should have bait plots/kill plots/food plots/lazy plots what ever you want to call them. It makes it easier to pattern the buck you are after. Well, unless someone puts a bait pile between and screws it up. Wait, no baiter in there right mind would put a pile of corn next to a corn field, would they, LMFAO!!! Seen it, too funny.
Obama told the have nots it was everyone else's fault.
WW, with that thought process why even buy property in Kansas like you have? Wouldn’t a more efficient use of your time be spent shopping around with outfitters who are likely to have a bigger buck or two than you any given year? I suppose tag availability is getting to be a serious consideration, but for the money involved 15-20 Kansas hunts and mix in some Iowa/neighboring state options in off years and you’d likely come out much farther ahead in total inches acquired!
Obama told the have nots it was everyone else's fault. LMAO, another good one, how is the throne with your blinders on?
"It helps the private landowners when no baiting is allowed on nearby public lands. That is why QDM food plot guys are against baiting. Private bait plots suck the deer right in."
to a large extent...i think you are exactly right. thats why i posted the following a bout the mentality of a large segment of those against baiting...
"i put a lot of time...money...and effort into attracting and keeping deer on my land until im ready to shoot them...how dare you lure them away from me with a $10 bag of corn."
i would also add..."and how dare you shoot them before theyre old enough and big enough to make it to my hit list."
Baiters are the "trannies" of hunting, yea they get a trophy every once in awhile...but nobody will ever be convinced they earned or deserved it. So put your buck on the wall, but realize every time you look up at it, that it had nothing to do with hunting...and on that day you weren't a hunter, though you may have "identified as one".
"It helps the private landowners when no baiting is allowed on nearby public lands. That is why QDM food plot guys are against baiting. Private bait plots suck the deer right in."
And, helps the public land hunters know where the deer are going to go during hunting hours, If they learn to pattern and hunt deer. Go get them, right? All private land owners should plant food plots to help the public land hunters out, thank you!!!
I believe in mineral blocks, but not near where you would have a stand. Do it where it's legal if that's your thing. I'll hunt crop fields but game can appear anywhere in that situation, so I don't see it as baiting. Decoys and scents aren't in my tool bag had to many deer detour from either or both. Missed a chance at my #2 one year because he shied away from my decoy. Sold it to a lady for a lawn ornament. Rattling and grunt tubes seem to work around here.
I'm not getting baited into this one Jake ;0)
sit0, hey Buddy! How’s it going with your quest to shoot that public land, wild, untrained deer that has fed exclusively on native vegetation? I know that you’re too principled to shoot, much less eat any deer that has consumed any crop of any kind. Tall order, but I respect your total dedication to it!!
"untrained deer that has fed exclusively on native vegetation?"
Fun to hunt, tasty to eat.
What I don’t understand is if a redneck like myself can see it then why the hell y’all can’t. I don’t mind saying I don’t see hunting as a sport. I’m very competitive and I love sports but there’s points involved in that with always a winner and loser. I know that totally goes against the grain with most on here but I think animals were put here on earth for us to enjoy and eat. I don’t think there is nothing wrong with going after trophies as long as you keep the meat in mind as well. In doing that though I think we should treat them with respect.
Most on here it’s probably safe to say that treat hunting as a sport and don’t get me wrong…there is nothing wrong with that at all. But if you going to treat it as a sport it’s very difficult for me to understand that you don’t see where baiting isn’t a sporting way to harvest an animal. I got cows I go feed. I put it out and they come and eat it…it’s called livestock.
There’s a lot on here that travel all over and shoot different animals. For y’all that do that and then turn around and put bait out and to make it worse put a cell cam on it I just don’t get where you’re thinking. Now if it’s about not wasting time and just seeing how many animals you can put on the wall then I can kind of understand. If you’re doing it for that kind of reason then I get it cause I used to be that way on Whitetails and still got some of that in me…trust me I still got to fight that urge just to do whatever it takes to get a big one.
I get tired of hearing that whatever is legal then just do it. If they made it legal to put a remote control gun or a bomb at the feeder just to kill them would y’all be fine with that? You got a brain…do a little thinking with it instead of just following the masses.
I think a lot of us hunt because we love accumulating the most big animals we can so it makes us look good instead of giving the animal a fair shake. Prove me wrong.
Baiting makes it easier or it wouldn't be done. But baiting in one area may be on par with hunting native areas in another area. I really do not understand the point of the discussion. If you do not believe baiting makes it easier speak up. I'm not knocking baiting. Just this is an inane circular discussion.
Big question ? Who is still having fun ? Think we have lost some over nonsense
There are many anti deer baiters that go on guided, baited bear hunts. When quizzed about the contradiction the answer is always, "well that's different."
"Baiting makes it easier or it wouldn't be done. But baiting in one area may be on par with hunting native areas in another area. I really do not understand the point of the discussion. If you do not believe baiting makes it easier speak up. I'm not knocking baiting. Just this is an inane circular discussion."
i dont think anyone is disputing that. of course people use bait to make hunting easier. its just another thing in a long list of things that are used to assist in the taking of game.
its the same reason people use food plots...high letoff compound bows...treestands...camo...scent loc...goretex...decoys...calls...scents...scent killer sprays...pop up blinds...mechanical broadheads...sights...releases...lighted nocks...trail cams...binocs...range finders...gps...onx...and the list goes on and on and on.
they are all intended to make some aspect of the hunt "easier."
the original question wasnt about whether or not baiting makes hunting easier...it was about the logic behind why are some hunting aids ok and some arent.
fwiw...the only person that ive seen that insists baiting makes hunting harder is live2hunt.
What is the hunter definition of baiting?
Back to bears? you guys don't listen well do you. I would be OK if WI did away with baiting bears. But, baiting and hounds are about the only way to get a bear and control numbers for hunting them in WI. It would be a rare thing to go out an sit a ridge waiting for a bear to come by like you can with deer. Not a real enjoyable way to hunt, but its either that or hounds. Deer? Yes Ricky, it makes them harder to HUNT in all the ways I explained throughout the posts above. LOL, I am the only one that thinks that? Funny stuff again. If you have to use bait to hunt and animal like a deer you are not a hunter, not out there for the hunt, just there to kill.
Here is your skill level, park car or wheeler, walk in the woods to the first trail within 100 yards, dump pile of corn, put blind up, wait a few days, dump more. Keep going till the ground is tore up. You may notice you are going to see fawns and yearlings mostly during daylight but boy look at all the deer sign and all night long you will see bucks coming in. Just think, if you sit there all season he may come and get some corn during daylight. But that is the sporting thing with baiting its called the fake, don't worry, keep dumping corn, in reality your fake hunting.
Ricky, so, harder to hunt? Do you mean, congregating deer, changing behavior to nocturnal, killing more of the nub bucks and fawns than normal, Claiming an area to yourself, writing notes and leaving on windshields of cars that this is my spot because I have been baiting it, abnormal amounts of human scent in an area from dumping bait, not required to hunt an animal like a deer, deer move more normal at natural or planted foods, etc? You seemed to have forgot quite a few things with your comment.
Misery, see above, think about it. BTW, get to planting some food plots, I will be on the public land adjoining waiting for your big target buck, lol.
I am in favor of progressively challenging oneself. That is an individualistic thing. Just evolve as a hunter is what I respect. Generally I do not disrespect any legal means. I do not understand hunters, who in good physical condition, do the same style of hunting year after year with the same results. I am not belittling it, I just do not understand how it is fun to keep doing the same thing with the same results. Again, I am not against it, I just do not get it.
Live2hunt: I have bow killed multiple dozens of bears, on the ground, NO bait. I've never shot a baited bear. Where I live, there is no big game animal easier to kill with a bow than bears. Deer are just the opposite.
You can justify baiting bears because, otherwise you'd seldom get one. By that logic you'd approve of bating deer if the same was true for them. Am I correct?
The bear is still there, just like the deer. They're quite large and they have preferred foods and habitat, just like deer. They leave tracks and other sign, just like deer. So why can't a person just go "hunt them up" as the saying goes?
"You seemed to have forgot quite a few things with your comment."
i dont think so. you just keep changing your story depending on the day.
" BTW, get to planting some food plots, I will be on the public land adjoining waiting for your big target buck, lol."
you realize you can do the same thing with bait piles...right?
all you have to do is find an area on public land where someone has parked car or wheeler, walked in the woods to the first trail within 100 yards, dumped pile of corn, put blind up, waited a few days, dumped more and kept going till the ground is tore up...then follow those trails back a few hundred yards...set your stand...and "hunt em up." even the mature ones that wont get near that bait pile until after dark. seems to me that a hunter of your caliber could pile them up like cord wood.
Ambush, you live in a mountainous area. Throughout my descriptions in this thread you will find that I stated, Bear hunting in the mountains is easier because you can spot and stalk. I have been in the mountains and yes, I would prefer that way over baiting bears any day. We do not have that in WI, it is flat and thick. Your deer population is primarily blacktail and your forests are like a rain forest. But, deer are easily found because they tend to do the same things daily once the preferred food source for that time of year is found. I have watched some hunting shows of deer in your neck of the woods and have yet to see one that they are baiting. But, if I see a bait pile or a spinner in a video, I turn it off. One of the good things about YouTube.
"Deer hunting was better for all prior to the start of baiting. Then they decided to reintroduce wolves which declined the deer herd big time. Throw in a couple hard winters and more than normal numbers were taken out. Then lets throw in xgun full inclusion"
What a load of crap. Deer hunting was not "better for all" prior to the start of baiting, how someone can even say that is ridiculous. You've asked everyone? Even all the baiters? They "all" struggle to find a deer to shoot as much as you do? Just because something is apparently nearly impossible for you to accomplish doesn't mean everyone else has the same struggles.
"They" reintroduced wolves in Wisconsin? Who is they and can you provide any links that document that? Sure the DNR can't seem to estimate the wolf population correctly, and they seem to downplay the damage wolves are causing, and for that matter they really seem to like wolves, but where and when did this reintroduction happen? Rumor has it wolves have 4 legs and are known to travel. Got a link?
And again for your selective memory, there was not full inclusion of crossbows in Wisconsin. They have their own separate season, harvests are tracked separately, and they are not "in" recurve bow season, or longbow season, or for that matter they aren't even 'in" the high-tech compound season which I hear is the most challenging of all. ;-)
"Now today, no deer, unhuntable populations in areas."
Seriously, one of these years you should ask any of the many hunters that still harvest deer from the same counties and from the same public lands that you claim have "unhuntable" populations how they do it, maybe you could get some tips on how to hunt. I agree that there are areas in some counties in northern wi that have few deer, but southern wi is the exact same way you can find areas with very few deer. But most people do not keep deer hunting an area they know has "no deer" and if they do, I imagine they're hunting for reasons other than actually harvesting a deer, so I wouldn't think they'd keep whining.
It also is becoming clear that you despise private landowners and people that have access to hunt private lands. When I read your many comments about hunting the property line right on the edge of private lands simply to be a dick which is how it comes across, I'd bet that for every private land bordering public I see that has a no trespassing sign every 20 yards and when I hear the stories of landowners not letting a hunter from the public retrieve the deer they shot that went onto the private, my money says these people were not like that until they met someone like you. Just something to think about, whether you're just a tough guy keyboard warrior talking crap or you actually do this stuff in real life, you are more than likely doing no favors for anyone else that hunts that public after you do. Your fellow hunters should be thanking you.
Live2hunt: You do know that BC has from sage brush to coastal rainforest to high mountain to just thick bush. BC is bigger than most three or more states put together. And from your comment I can say confidently that you know next to nothing about the hunting here. So given that fact, how can you tell me what is easy or hard to hunt. I have no corn, grain, bean, peas, etc. crops within two hundred miles of me. I can't just use my "woodsmanship" to walk a field edge for the best trail entering the cut corn, then simply follow it back a bit and hang a stand. Or set up on the edge of a field.
The mistake people make is they always project their situation to every body else's. Even hunters five thousand miles away.
Very simply: if you approve of bear baiting it is totally hypocritical to look down on baiting deer.
Ambush exactly. Same way you can't look down on wing-shooting elk or spot and stalk doves.
Bottom line.....people who are paid to manage wildlife populations in certain states have determined there is no reason to make baiting illegal. That carries more weight to me than someone spouting off on a forum about the extreme carnage that baiting causes to deer health.
Perhaps some hunters cannot afford bait, or habitat improvements.
“I can't just use my "woodsmanship" to walk a field edge for the best trail entering the cut corn, then simply follow it back a bit and hang a stand. “
Bowsite classic right there!
Only thing you forgot to add is, “throw a cell cam on it”
Unfortunately a lot of hunters are Richard's, that is why more and more landowners do not support hunting.
HunterR wrote a pretty accurate post.
"HunterR wrote a pretty accurate post." LMFAO, REALLY!!! Yes HunterR, it was better, I was there and hunted then so have many others in WI. Public bordering private? Anyone has the right to hunt public border properties, it is there choice as to how close to private and the outcome. Myself? I do my research prior to and gain permission from the landower. If not, I won't hunt it. I have no issue with people owning their own property nor what they do on it. If they wanted to allow rifle hunting 365/24/7 I don't give a rats ass. I care about what I have to hunt and if I do not like what is happening I do say something. You, your an ass and you show it many ways. Also may I say, if you hunted prior to the baiting you would not have made the stupid comment you made.
Ambush, LOL, no, I do not and never claimed to know hunting in BC. I said from what I had seen on programs. Please read and think before you type. You do not know what we have to deal with in WI either. Deer baiting here causes issues, bear baiting does not. We do not have mountains and or open areas to glass bears to spot and stalk. Hypocritical, LOL no. Practical, yes. Misery, again, blind.
Bowfreak, the Kansas wildlife commission has said they’d have already banned baiting if not for the political/social blowback that is sure to ensue. They’re scared of the legislature.
Still sad to see the lack of other species mentioned in this thread and by virtually all pro baiters. I guess bears were brought up, but as another target species. The innocent casualties of upland birds and turkeys have been documented and are a big factor in the Kansas discussions. Also the inflation of nest predator populations and how baiting has influenced that. Still the pro guys only ever want to talk about deer. Sad that some hunters just don’t seem care about/consider the whole picture. Especially those who own land and have the ability to improve those interactions.
Since I mentioned bears I guess I’ll throw in my two cents there. I have no issue whatsoever killing predators by any means possible. Especially where game populations could use some assistance. Our island in Alaska has the shortest blacktail season in the state and the biologist has said he believes about 50% of fawns are taken by bears. Kill them by any means necessary is my opinion. Baiting bears in that scenario has absolutely nothing in common with baiting whitetails in the Midwest. And there aren’t any negative effects to other species I’m aware of with baiting bears in this environment. I don’t think grouse are getting picked off at a bear bait like turkeys and quail do at a corn pile in Kansas.
Bear hunting in WI is a draw system. Depending on the area of the state it can be 2 years or 12 years to get a tag. Is it a great "hunt"? to me no. Sitting a bait waiting for them is not a hunt to me. I have done it and will do it again. The fun part of bear baiting is the finding a spot, and if you get hit, seeing the pics. If I shot one, I would be done.
Quote Live2hunt: " Deer baiting here causes issues, bear baiting does not"
So if deer baiting in my area doesn't cause problems for deer or other species, then it's ok with you if I wanted to do it?
"Anyone has the right to hunt public border properties, it is there choice as to how close to private and the outcome."
Correct, and every private landowner in Wisconsin has the right to tell the public land hunter that was sitting 5 feet off the line to pound sand when he's begging to retrieve the deer he shot, and that is even with the conservation warden standing there watching.
"I have no issue with people owning their own property nor what they do on it. If they wanted to allow rifle hunting 365/24/7 I don't give a rats ass. I care about what I have to hunt"
lol you don't care what people do on their private land, do you read what you type, or I should ask do you even understand what you type? You do realize that without private landowners managing their own properties the public lands would have a lot less deer correct? Show me one public land property that's managed anywhere close to as well as a lot of private lands are managed, you can't do it. Do you realize you also just typed that you only care about the land you have available to hunt? And I'm the ass...
Also fyi I hunted prior to baiting, and I hunted while baiting was legal, and, I hunted after baiting became illegal again. I managed to find deer to hunt in all of those situations much like many other hunters, I can't be the only one wondering why you find it to be so difficult.
Ambush, Deer baiting here causes issues, bear baiting does not" Here, as in Here in WI. I don't care what you do there in BC. I will add, I wish I had the opportunity to hunt bear by spot and stalking as you do there. HunterR, Oh boy, again, you have not been on public in WI for awhile have you? Well it shows. You think I am the only one with complaints? All public land hunters are pissed. Meetings going on in Northern WI and MN. But, it is just me having the issues? Please, check into things prior to typing.
Live2Hunt: your ramblings are so full of contradictions that trying to grasp what you’re saying is like trying to catch a fart in a wool mitten during a hurricane.
“I care about baiting” “I don’t care about baiting”
“There’s no deer” “I have no trouble shooting deer” “I can’t find a deer to shoot.”
“I’ve hunted bated bears”. “I didn’t like hunting baited bears”. “I would do it again”
“I don’t care how you hunt” “You better hunt how I do”
“I’m going to tell you all about your area”. “I don’t know anything about your area.”
Please don’t try to help me understand anymore. I really think you just love to hear yourself talk.
Wrong again live2hunt, I'm on public land every year including this one, and many hunters I know also are. I do know that you're not the only one whining that expects a deer behind every tree like there was in the 90's etc, but I along with most other people understand that the DNR does not want to see populations that high anymore and most hunters have figured out how to still have success, or at least not whine constantly that they don't see a deer during every sit.
"Deer baiting here causes issues, bear baiting does not"
really?
if its anything like michigan...tell that to the bait hunters and the dog hunters that hunt public land. not to mention how territorial bear baiters can and do get about baits on public lands...especially the outfitters.
"You think I am the only one with complaints?"
of course not. hunters...both private and public...love to complain about any one or any thing they see as a hindrance to them killing a big buck. the only thing they dont blame is themselves.
"hindrance to them killing a big buck" Ricky, don't care about that. I will take a 6 point if a good opp shows. Ambush, ramblings? LOL, Man, you need to learn to read and quote better. Your pretty good at spinning. Wow. You gents have a good day now spinning!!!!
"Please don’t try to help me understand anymore. I really think you just love to hear yourself talk. "
There's a reason why so many folks think hunters are complete dumbasses and unfortunately I can't blame them. This also is exactly why so much of what hunters want/say/express falls on deaf ears and why so many people simply tune out the incoherent babbling and contradictions and emotional outbursts, but, sadly we all get lumped in with the dumb ones. I still can not figure out why a guy would continue hunting for deer in an area he swears has "a unhuntable" deer population, or for that matter why he'd even attempt to kill the last one. Unless, of course, he only cares about himself and where he hunts.
Good stuff there hunterR, Can't wait to see you in a pick with your big buck, an xgun and a pile of corn in the background on Facebook. Yes, your actions do fall on deaf ears and we have to get lumped into what the likes of your kind have done to hunting. Dumb ones? LOL, please, lets see that pic of you as above, LOL.
Dog proof coon traps easily mitigates nest predators problems
Dog proof coon traps easily mitigates nest predators problems
Pretty easy to run a couple DP traps and take care of the nest predators.
I have lots of turkey and quail on my small farm, they show up as well.
I have had plenty of biologists and land managers come up with a habitat improvement plan and have implemented the recommendations to benefit all species. Supplemental feed helps increase the numbers in a small area with good cover.
KB- "WW, with that thought process why even buy property in Kansas like you have? Wouldn’t a more efficient use of your time be spent shopping around with outfitters who..."
Do you want to know the answer to that or just trolling?
I grew up dirt poor with no hunting tradition. I wasn't born with a "Silver Spoon" like the other Kansas Cohort on here with access to Daddy's and Rich Uncles 10,000 acres to hunt. Now some of them choose to stick that Spoon up their Ass and become stuck up narcissists condescending to any who don't agree with them, and how they are so superior and the only definition of true hunters.
KB- where do you fall? You seem capable of a logical conversation or want to be antagonistic?
I'm sorry I hurt your feelers WW, I must have forgotten to ask about your pronouns.
No silver spoon here, people just like me and let me hunt. They also know how respectful of their ground I am, and that I'm not poisoning the wildlife, instead I respect nature.
P.S. No matter how many of the baiter excuses you use, and you've grasped at all of them, you still needed a crutch...and on that day you were anything but a hunter.
That’s great WW. Wish more rec landowners thought like you. Sadly I think we’d agree many do not, and the vast majority of ag land managers don’t as well. If the whole state did I could see isolated situations where supplemental feed is a plus, but we know tens of thousands of corn piles scattered across the landscape with little other management just isn’t a net positive for wildlife. Good on you for trying to make a difference with what you have. That’s all we can personally control I suppose. The KDWP commission has to make the bigger decision.
I’ve been accused of the “silver spoon” here recently as well! (Edit: Long winded explanation anbout how if I was worried about “me getting mine” I could dump corn on plenty of acres. Obviously missed the point. Anyway… ) I think some of us aren’t coming from a place of jealousy or hate towards others when disagreeing with baiting. Personally I think it has had serious effects on the culture, wildlife, and future of hunting in Kansas and I can’t come up with many positives in that regard. The point remains that most don’t consider anything but deer when having this discussion and that’s a serious problem.
As far as my comments about your situation, I was responding to this…
“Sitting and waiting for a certain size or age class deer that doesn't exist in the area is a poor use of my time.”
It read like all that mattered was swinging down, grabbing “your” set of antlers, and on to the next. In that instance an outfitted experience seems pretty logical. But obviously I do see the positives and intrigue in having your own place.
"Good stuff there hunterR, Can't wait to see you in a pick with your big buck, an xgun and a pile of corn in the background on Facebook. Yes, your actions do fall on deaf ears and we have to get lumped into what the likes of your kind have done to hunting. Dumb ones? LOL, please, lets see that pic of you as above, LOL."
That's a great comeback live2hunt, good job.
You've heard of facebook? You look at it? Well then you should be able to see all the hunters that get it done where you can't, have you asked them for tips on how to hunt? Most of them seem like friendly people I'd just ask it sure can't hurt.
What have my kind done to hunting?
What is my kind?
Just so you know I don't currently bait. It's illegal in most areas I hunt besides I've found that food plots are a better way to attract deer. Being that I care about other hunters I do feel that baiting should be legal in all of Wisconsin and for those that hunt public land or for some other reason can't or don't want to plant food plots, but unfortunately baiting is banned in most every county in Wisconsin I believe. (It has been a while since I checked.)
Also, I apologize, but even though you have shown interest in seeing a picture of me I will have to decline, but thanks for asking. ;-)
sit0: how far does a person have to be from a Failure Field before they can look at the buck they killed with pride?
Your kind? Kill them any way possible, all technology welcome, only the kill matters.
Food plots, yes I agree they do work. You sound more like a private land only hunter putting down all the public land hunters. Food plots, I have them all over in the forests untouched by deer, acorns, clearcuts, meadows, you name it, its there. Good thing, they eat too much anyway.
Hell, there are 5 deer outside my office window right now, must be deer everywhere!!!! As a matter of fact, I drive through town here and always see deer, there must be too many. What is wrong with us, can't find a deer and they are all over like that. Blinders just like Misery.
I think some are trying to discourage hunters from coming north. The herd is down, but filling a tag is not difficult.
Here is a scenario for the "I'm OK with baiting and wish it would be legal everywhere" crowd. 4 years ago a guy and his 2 young sons road hunting bait piles. They put bait at the end of logging roads and would drive around to them all day "hunting". I talked to them and they killed a small spike. Is this hunting? its legal? No problems right? Kill them anyway possible, no ethics, no nothing. Is this all good?
I think some are trying to discourage hunters from coming north. The herd is down, but filling a tag is not difficult.
Blinders.
"4 years ago a guy and his 2 young sons road hunting bait piles. They put bait at the end of logging roads and would drive around to them all day "hunting". I talked to them and they killed a small spike. Is this hunting? its legal? No problems right? Kill them anyway possible, no ethics, no nothing. Is this all good?"
sound like one of those heard it from my brothers buddys sisters hairdressers mechanics uncle stories...but assuming its legit...
no...that would be poaching. at least it would be in michigan. same if you did it in a farm field or food plot or an oak flat.
Ahhh, Ricky, read again. I talked to them/him. Poaching would be shooting out of the truck, where they shot the spike from I am not sure as I was not there.
Many think they don't have money because they don't have cash. But think what the access to even 1000 acres in Kansas is worth? buying the land depending how much crp/farmland could be $3000-$5000 per acre. so lets use $4k as an average.
1000 acres is worth $4,000,000. Now some may claim they have access to 10,000k acres so that's using $30-50,000,000 worth of property....
leasing land is also high, $15-25 per acre now. so at an average $20 per acre 10k acres of access is worth $200,000 PER hunting season.
Please share how much land your relatives own, you own etc and realize how rich you really are, were born into. Goes a long way to realize how lucky one can be like KB mentioned, and put a real $ value to the situation, even though you didn't pay "cash" for it.
" Poaching would be shooting out of the truck..."
so they drove around to bait piles that they had strategically placed at the end of logging roads...when they came upon one that had a spike eating at it...they got out of the truck...removed the rifle...loaded it...got away from the road the required number of feet...and proceeded to shoot the spike...who apparently waited around for all this to happen.
candor is right...
"this is hysterical."
:)
Ricky, it was you that I talked to, you’re right, it is hysterical ironic!!! You think a dumb little spike fawn would not stand there and eat corn? Wait, did I say they were like 10 yards away? Nope, sure did not!!! Hmm, yes a hysterical little man you are!!!
Have you ever spent a lot of time helping local farmers and ranchers with jobs up there in Kansas WW? The people I know live a very simple life but work very hard. You’re right they could sell out anytime and be instantly well off but that’s not where’s its at with these folks. It’s not about the money but the dirt that gives them life and satisfaction. They work to make it better so the next generations can keep it going. Too bad most hunters ain’t got the same motive and looks towards the future.
Don’t know you so what I’m saying next could be false but it seems somebody hit a nerve with you mentioning money. It sounds like you don’t want somebody downplaying your accomplishments in killing as a result of money. It sure sounds like your trying to make somebody else rich to make you feel better. I got news for you bud. No matter how hard you try to convince people otherwise everybody knows the truth. Money buys hunts and land which most times automatically lessens that person as a true hunter in most peoples eyes. That’s one downfall of money. The poor guy has all the romance in that department and that will never change.
Sounds like you’re a good guy though…I bet in a few years your viewpoint on baiting in Kansas will change. Give it some thought.
I do have a problem with folk thinking they are Poor- when they have access or were born into access worth Millions and Millions of dollars, then think everyone else should have the same success as them with their own methods to hunt.
Then at the same time they are sitting on Millions and Millions of dollars of land they didn't buy but their grandparent did, they piss on people who made their own money like the Tiffany Lakotsky thread and bought land.
You can't compare hunting on 10,000 acres vs the small landowner who can only afford access to a couple 100 acres.
How does this relate to bait? Well baiting or supplemental feed can make 100 acres hunt better and give a chance at a bigger deer. So in a way I see these large Land Lord pissing on small land owners who choose to use bait as taking deer from them etc etc.
Sorry....I don't buy the "baiting is killing the deer herd" argument. I will buy the "baiting is killing my hunting argument."
With that thought process we were all born into billions of dollars worth of access in most states and probably trillions nationwide. So no one really has any more or less than the next.
Some of it you can’t run bait and/or cameras on though, so maybe it doesn’t count.
WW, are you going to keep your kids off your Kansas farm since they didn’t buy it, or just remind them how lucky/spoiled they are every time they sit in the blind with you?
That is for public land you could say that. I am comparing sitO (who only lists Adams) with his access to 10,000 acres of PRIVATE land in KS to the common public land hunter or small land owner of a couple 100 and that the hunting situations are not equal. I am making a point of what it would cost someone not born into the situation to replicate it.
KB I'm pretty sure even you know the difference from public land vs private quality and quantity in KS and most places especially for whitetail.
I am fine with that though, its America and capitalism is a good thing. What I don't agree with is taking that position and thinking you are a better or more competent hunter than others because you have all that access you didn't pay for. There are many great kind gracious hunters with similar situations that don't piss on others or want to partner with Anti's, since that is the only argument I see to ban baiting as "unfair, too easy"
And yes calhoun calhoun from Texas (were baiting is a way of life) I have helped farmers, branded cattle, cleared fields and baled hay, mended fence etc. What's your point? Are you saying Bait=Poison? Last I checked deer, turkey and quail like to eat corn and it doesn't kill them whether its on the stalk, fallen on the ground, or in a corn pile....
And it can be done to the great benefit of all the native species when managed correctly.
I know none of this will not change any minds, and Internet arguments are pointless. but Jake wanted to know why some people are fine using bait. Maybe some undecided folk see both sides, and not vote to further restrict hunting privileges like many want to do (partnered with the Anti's).
The old saw “killing them with kindness” was at play this week in the northeast. According to this press release issued by New Hampshire Department of Fish & Game, citizens in the town of South Hampton found six dead whitetails in a wooded, suburban lot on March 20. State biologists and a warden responded to the call and, after a brief search, discovered an additional half dozen dead deer. After examining the animals at a nearby veterinary lab, authorities confirmed that at least two of the whitetails were victims of enterotoxemia, a condition directly linked to feeding deer—primarily corn—in winter.
live2hunt...
you do understand there is a big difference between baiting during the hunting seasons and supplemental feeding during the dead of winter...right?
even so...you left out a pretty important part of that article (from 2015)...
“The ideal scenario for someone wanting to feed would be to start in November, before the first snow, and not quit until spring,” he says. “And start with small amounts, especially in areas where whitetails aren’t exposed to ag crops. My guess is that if the people in this latest case had just started slow and given the deer time to transition to corn, they might have been successful. But that’s another natural human response; its been a tough winter, the deer are looking bad and acting hungry, let’s pitch as much food at them as we can. Generally, it’s just not a good idea.”
https://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/whitetail-365/dont-feed-the-deer-how-corn-can-be-a-killer/
Calm down Ricky!!! Calm Down!!! Life is OK!!! LOL It was in reference to the statement of "I checked deer, turkey and quail like to eat corn and it doesn't kill them whether its on the stalk, fallen on the ground, or in a corn pile...." UNDERSTAND? Wow oh great hunter. Thinking you need a gummy!!1
"Calm down Ricky!!! Calm Down!!! Life is OK!!! LOL It was in reference to the statement of "I checked deer, turkey and quail like to eat corn and it doesn't kill them whether its on the stalk, fallen on the ground, or in a corn pile...." UNDERSTAND? Wow oh great hunter."
i am calm...unlike you...with all your exclamation points and capital letters. lol
even so...if your post was in reference to the underlined statement...apparently you missed the sentence after that one.
" And it can be done to the great benefit of all the native species when managed correctly.
you should try reading things in their entirety...it might save you a lot of yelling and screaming.
You mean like you and others? LOL, right. Spinning seems to be your MO.
Reading through this thread the one common denominator to me is some people just don’t like the way other people go about their business. All the “baiting or no baiting” threads have this common theme.
I have bait plots in multiple states, could care less what others think. Habitat improvement works !
WW you brought up money and I was just letting you know there’s plenty of people in Kansas that don’t look at money the way some people do. That’s very good you spent a lot of your time in Kansas helping ranchers and farmers. I took it from your one post you didn’t want to waste time in Kansas when you’re killing so I guess it does surprise me some. If you’re helping them fill out then like I said before you’re well on your way to seeing the light.
Yes I truly believe now when a pile of corn sits too long it can become unhealthy for all sorts of animals as well as bringing predators to that spot hoping to get an easy meal. Just like the human killer there hoping to get an easy kill.
The talk of anti’s don’t work with me pal. The lefties always wanting things easy and getting a free handout. Not wanting to work for what they get. Transfer that to hunting…does this sound familiar with some of y’all?
Tell me something else WW as far as ethics go. Would you or do you think it’s alright to shoot a deer from a High Fence?
We all have so many Breaths in this like. So sad to see so many of you waste so many
But it's a free world and everyone is entitled to use them up as they see.
"We all have so many Breaths in this like. So sad to see so many of you waste so many"
arent the same number of breaths used whether im typing or not? :)
Somebody I see doesn’t want to answer the High Fence question.
What about you Mr. Kiebler. Would you shoot or do you think it’s right to shoot deer inside a High Fence? Also do you yourself call that hunting when someone takes an animal inside a High Fence?
I thinks it's right to shoot a deer anyplace that it is legal to do so and with anything that is legal to kill it with
It's not important if I think it is hunting or not, but yep it's hunting. And more importantly it's all fun unless your panties are so bunched up around your brain that you talk yourself out of it being fun, but that's a personal choice one makes, just like what weapon you want to hunt with
Carry on with your pillow fight ladies
I agree on the weapons part if you keep it reasonable.
Well sir by that answer you have let Texas absolutely ruined your thoughts on what wildlife is and the definition of hunting. I got a very close relative that has managed a High Fence for a long time and it’s sickening what they do. They keep the bucks in small pens and sedate the deer in velvet and cut the horns off. They have a vet come out and they run the does into chutes and artificially breed them. Not going to mention everything but in short they ain’t letting a deer be a deer.
How would you like if somebody cut your short pecker off and put you in a small room where you couldn’t never breed. Anybody with a normal brain knows this ain’t consider wildlife anymore. Texas though has gotten to be a mess…they still consider that wildlife so you just go along with it.
Sir I haven’t met you but by your response it wouldn’t surprise me you make money off of killing livestock or tied someway into it. There needs to be a line drawn somewheres and this High Fence thing is just ridiculous.
be still, you really should be wearing a hat in that hot Texas sun.
Maybe you could be the one that will draw that line CC. You certainly have the knowledge to help you achieve that. So stop yapping and get to it son, prove your worth.
Ambush I don’t know if a hat would help or not but this state is kind of driving me crazy on how they’re treating wildlife.
Salem Texas is nearly too far gone bud. Big money and greed has about taken this state over. I started hunting Missouri years ago but right now I’m trying to do the little I can do in Kansas. Trying to help draw a line there cause it’s quickly becoming a Texas North.
Calhoun Calhoun
Of course we have met
You are a master baiter if nothing else. Go ply your Tom Foolery on somebody else your not professional enough for me to waste any more of my time with you. BUT you were good for a Christmas laugh. Thanks
Yep I sure ain’t professional but this here crumb eater sleeps good at night. Glad I made you laugh and you have a Merry Christmas. Please don’t try and pen up Rudolph though.
"Calhoun Calhoun"
isnt he the dude that shot bobby kennedy? :)
Come on Fuzzy it’s….you’re right RCG.
Gotta mix it up a little "Silent Cal " ;)
