Colorado Credible Wolf Depredation
Contributors to this thread:General Topic
From: cnelk
03-Apr-24
cnelk's Link
Well, that took longer than expected - see link
From: cnelk
03-Apr-24
cnelk's Link
Another link if the one above doesnt work -
From: Zbone
03-Apr-24
Dang, I used to hunt in that county...
From: Grey Ghost
03-Apr-24
I'd say one calf in 3-1/2 months of winter isn't too bad. I'm sure it will get worse, though. Colorado beef tastes better than Oregon beef. ;-)
From: wytex
03-Apr-24
Calving is just now taking place, not 3 months ago. More to come I'm willing to bet.
From: cnelk
03-Apr-24
^^^ Exactly
From: Bou'bound
03-Apr-24
Better that than elk
From: Grey Ghost
03-Apr-24
"Better that than elk"
Seriously?
From: cnelk
03-Apr-24
How about the CPW not being open about the wolves?
From: TRnCO
03-Apr-24
more to come, stay tuned. Wolves are hungry and gotta eat....
From: Glunt@work
03-Apr-24
When we get to Idaho wolf numbers, its about 3 depredations/week. Won't even make the news very often at that point.
From: WV Mountaineer
03-Apr-24
Yep. Kinda the start of calving season. They are going to kill more. I’m just upset they haven’t made their way into Kansas yet.
From: MA-PAdeerslayer
03-Apr-24
1 of many more…..
From: Bou'bound
04-Apr-24
Yes seriously
From: Nyati
04-Apr-24
I’m shocked
From: CBFROMND
04-Apr-24
I read an article this morning on this... They are asking the ranchers in this area to remember to not use excessive means when dealing with the wolves... Please try things such as range riders, hazing, etc..... too funny!
From: LUNG$HOT
04-Apr-24
These ranchers just need to have some rational conversation with the wolves about not eating their calves. Not sure what the big deal is?
From: jjs
04-Apr-24
When I was in Alaska in 1975 I had a discussion with Ak. Sen. Tillman (didn't know who he was at the time) and he was telling me about the wolf study in moose predation. They discovered that wolves primary food were caribou and if the caribou source was unavailable for the wolf litter den and cattle was available the pups will prefer cattle over caribou or moose and the end result the wolves must be removed.
Of course this was 50+ years ago and the study may have change. At that time there was designated kill zones on wolves to increase the moose population and cattle, the Manuska Valley area has a large cattle/diary farming.
In reverse Prince Royal Island had to relocate wolves to the island to keep the moose population down, the previous wolves died off from lack of prey and the moose population increased for carrying capacity, you would think moose hunting would be allowed but it wasn't.
Common sense is a balance control but when it comes to government there is no common sense. I primary hunt northern Mn and the wolf population is way out of balance and the deer population is paying for it, so much for the state deer/moose management.
From: samman
04-Apr-24
How many calves will get consumed & not even know they are gone? Ranchers will just have fewer calves without proof. They can't keep an eye on every cow dropping a calf 24/7. It was also determined it was a recently released wolf that make the kill.
From: Beendare
04-Apr-24
Tip of the iceberg…..
From: Jaquomo
04-Apr-24
From: Corax_latrans
04-Apr-24
Casa Bonita — now THERE’S a reason to go!
Surely that’s been faked…. But pretty funny if you’ve ever been to la casa….
From: Mike Ukrainetz
04-Apr-24
I’m sure the government Game department runs out and checks on every dead calf as soon as the rancher calls it in?! Or they wait a while for it to get eaten up and then it becomes an unknown kill, or just died on it’s own?
I know in Alberta once a pack gets a taste for cattle they will focus on killing them and then the whole pack needs to be taken out. Poison is the preferred method used by our game departments and we still have lots of wolves. Plus baited hunts, snaring, trapping, wide open shooting seasons. Good luck Colorado…
From: KHNC
04-Apr-24
So now GG is a wolf lover and elk hater. Got it.
From: Glunt@work
04-Apr-24
"Surely that’s been faked..."
Unfortunately, truth really is stranger than fiction here.
From: Jaquomo
04-Apr-24
Actually, no, that is an actual post the governor made on his FB page to pro.ote Colorado
From: samman
04-Apr-24
Such a cute, harmless looking wolf too. Maybe the tourists will try to cuddle those wolf pups. I'm sure the governors missus created that, thus the obligitory rainbow.
From: Paul@thefort
05-Apr-24
Maybe, "Now With Mt. Lions" and then with the other 9 big game species in Colorado.
From: CBFROMND
09-Apr-24
Saw a video clip this morning on this subject and it turns out that it was the European immigrants that settled here brought with them their superstitions and beliefs, etc about wolves and that's why they were eradicated... sure... It had nothing to do with real reasons like the fact that they are animal terrorists and impossible to deal with when gone un checked! Idaho set forth a plan to further control the wolf population in their state from appx 1200 down to appx 500... A number they feel is acceptable for the landscape.. No sooner than they put this out the bunny's got a judge to further restrict the trapping time frame... They won't stop working every angle and I only wish we as sportsman could do more.. I hunt elk in Idaho and have seen how fast the wolf establishes, sets up and destroys anything that walks the same ground... Oh... I do enjoy the lush landscape now that the elk aren't eating it all to the dirt! ha!
From: Bow Bullet
09-Apr-24
Bow Bullet's Link
Yep, just the beginning. Another one
From: samman
19-Apr-24
samman's Link
No surprise, wolves have figured out cows are pretty easy to catch. Got 4 this week.
From: Corax_latrans
19-Apr-24
Look at the bright side — these wolves must be having trouble catching deer and Elk ;)
From: Bou'bound
19-Apr-24
Better that than elk
From: Grey Ghost
19-Apr-24
Does anyone know exactly where in Grand County these depredations are taking place?
From: cnelk
19-Apr-24
From: JDM
19-Apr-24
GG, Does it make a difference really?
From: Bou'bound
19-Apr-24
It does if you are a cow
From: Grey Ghost
19-Apr-24
JDM, not really. We own a place in Grand County and I was just curious how close these depredations were.
From: butcherboy
19-Apr-24
If I was a rancher I would be pissed!
From: Grey Ghost
19-Apr-24
So, I read that the rancher, Don Gittleson, in Jackson County was compensated $16,000 for 6 confirmed wolf depredations, so $2666 per head. I'm not a cattle guy, so how does that kind of money work out for the rancher? I suppose it depends on whether they were calves, breeders, or bulls, but I'm not familiar with the values of each. Anyone?
From: butcherboy
19-Apr-24
That sounds about right. Probably going off of market value for a fat butcher ready beef. Or going off what the rancher would sell a butcher ready beef for. It’s more of a loss if the rancher would be using those calves for breeders when they get older.
From: KsRancher
19-Apr-24
Agree with butcherboy. That's what at 1425lb fat calf would bring. Around what a cow would bring. Wouldn't be enough if it was a breeding bull (doubt if wolves would go after one) or it was someone's registered stock.
From: Grey Ghost
19-Apr-24
Thanks, Butcherboy. So, in the case of a 75 pound newborn calf, assuming they pay the rancher the value of a fat butcher ready beef, isn't that a great deal for the rancher? He doesn't have any of the cost associated with raising that calf, but he gets paid as though he did. It's amazing how little information is available on this, or maybe I'm not using the correct search terms.
From: KsRancher
19-Apr-24
I know you didn't ask me. But yes, that would be a great price for a calf. Especially since most cow/calf operations don't finish their calf crop. Most sell as calves or yearlings.
From: WV Mountaineer
19-Apr-24
Yep.
GG, what if he losses twice as many that he can’t confirm?
From: Jaquomo
19-Apr-24
My understanding is that Gittleson had been breeding for certain genetic traits for decades, so he can't just go buy a generic "cow" to replace them.
From: KSflatlander
19-Apr-24
Rusty- if you were the rancher would you be pissed the wolves didn't take all your calves (not breeders) if they are paying that amount?
From: Grey Ghost
19-Apr-24
WV, obviously if a rancher has wolf depredation that can't be confirmed, he loses out. I was just talking about confirmed cases.
Lou, I wasn't aware Gettleson was raising for specific genetic traits. Do you have any information on how the fair market value is established, especially for calf kills?
From: WV Mountaineer
19-Apr-24
I wasn’t trying to be a wise guy. Only certain that the money they received, should be tripled. At least. The effects wolves have on livestock is documented. He’ll take losses that will see that amount fall short.
Just adding different perspective.
From: Glunt@work
19-Apr-24
Maybe theres a chance some folks want to raise cattle, work their tail off to produce quality beef, carry on a family heritage and lifestyle and sell them to willing buyers.
Folks like that might not want to feed their cattle to wolves even if their fellow citizens tax money pays them the same or better than the market. Especially when they understand that the wolf issue is about a lot more than wolves..
From: KSflatlander
19-Apr-24
It was a joke...
From: Grey Ghost
19-Apr-24
WV, I disagree. If Gettleson is like the cattle ranchers in my neck of the woods, he's knows exactly how many head is accounted for every day. Ranchers who graze on thousands of BLM acres for insanely cheap prices might be different.
From: Glunt@work
19-Apr-24
I got it KSF. Just speaking to the idea that its ok to be subjected to bad/wrong things as long as you get compensated. The pro wolf crowd and CPW are constantly pushing the compensation as if that makes what is happening here fine.
From: Grey Ghost
19-Apr-24
Based on the numbers I've been able to dig up, cattle ranchers are being more than fairly compensated for wolf depredation, at the expense of all tax payers. Hunters, who pay for the conservation and management of the big game animals they hunt, not so much.
From: KsRancher
19-Apr-24
Ryan. Yes, I would absolutely be pissed. I think the ranchers should treat them like coyotes. Just shoot them, poison a carcass or whatever it takes to keep your livestock safe.
Edit. I wrotw that wrong to how you asked your question. I would be mad if they on my land at all.
From: butcherboy
19-Apr-24
If he is breeding for certain genetic traits then he is also probably finishing them and selling them privately instead of going to a feed lot. Selling them for custom processing or selling them to a small USDA plant to get them into local grocery stores, restaurants, farmers market etc. He has a lot more time and money invested into each calf than a standard black angus. Price depends on what kind of beef it is, finished, grass fed, grain fed, size, etc. It’s a decent price for a standard grain finished Black Angus steer.
From: WV Mountaineer
19-Apr-24
GG, I was under the belief that wolf depredation was way under counted on the Yellowstone deal. I don’t imagine this time around is going to be any different. It wasn’t cattle men not knowing their herd causing it either.
From: Catscratch
19-Apr-24
All ranchers breed or manipulate genetics in some manner. It goes from culling ill-tempered cows to AI'ing registered bloodlines into your herd. It's a pain to replace years of established practices. I'd be pissed to loose calves to an introduced animal then get a pat on the back with a check saying just get over it. I wouldn't turn the check down, but it doesn't exactly correct things. It'd be like the Crack head down the block killing one of your new lab pups then giving you a check to cover buying a new one. I bet that check wouldn't just make it all magically ok.
From: Jaquomo
19-Apr-24
GG, my mountain ranching friends move their cattle onto National Forest leases and they have no idea how many they will end up with in October when they come down. They are always missing a few. Whether the few turns into many depends on wolf activity in that part of the Forest, I suspect. But they will never prove it.
Justin, what I know is what I read last year when the WY pack was hitting Don's place. He talked about the genetics in an interview and said he couldn't just go out and "replace" them.
