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OK. Bowhunters Lost.........

The WMU at Tishomingo OK. has been a bowhunting only area for 40 years. A proposal was made by a person that works for the wildlife Department of Oklahoma to open the area up during muzzle loader and gun season to the gun hunters. I talked with the man that made the proposal and he said the Wildlife commission voted it in. Thr WMU is a little under 3000 acres. But just across the highway from the WMU is the Washita arm unit that has 10,000 acres and has always been open to gun hunting. I don't understand why they didn't keep the WMU for bowhunting only. When there is 3 times the area across the road already open to gun hunters. I called the Bowhunting Council back in Janurary and was told they would try to keep that from happening. I guess they weren't able to stop it. I wish there were something we could do to keep the area bowhunting only. If any of you know how to help stop this please post on here and let us know. No matter if you personally ever used that WMU or not, it should remain a bowhunting only area as it has been for the past 40 years. Lindell Armstrong

Lindell

My guess (and only a guess) is that the area was not meeting the management goals for harvest.

The Tishoming WMA unit had the following archery totals:

2007 - 1 Bucks and 3 Does = 4 total

2006 - 0 Bucks and 0 Does = 0 Total

2005 - 2 Bucks and 4 Does = 6 Total

2004 - 2 Bucks and 7 Does = 9 Total

2003 - 2 Bucks and 2 Does = 4 Total

Average over those 5 years (latest available) is 1.4 Bucks and 3.2 Does = 4.6 Deer per year. Rounding up to 5 deer harvested per year on 3000 acres equates to a single deer harvested per 600 acres per year - just shy of a single deer per square mile.

With those numbers the biologist may be looking to increase the overall harvest.

~Troy

Troy, you may be right about the low harvest. I usually hunt the area in the late season. And there is never many hunters on the area at that time. If the person I had talked to had told me not enough deer were being harvested. I could have accepted that much better then his statement of(not enough places to hunt) I guess I just had to vent some. The bowhunters get very little consideration in this state. The Department caters to the gun hunters. But the are the majority, and the ones paying the bill. It is just sad to me that we lost that area after having it for 40 years.

Send comments by mail to: Attn: Proposed hunting and fishing regulation changes Wildlife Department P.O. Box 53465 Oklahoma City, OK 73152

By e-mail (comment only, no replies will be sent): [email protected]

Please be sure to include the rule you are commenting on. Comments will be accepted until 4:30 p.m. Jan. 16.

2009-2010 RULE CHANGE PROPOSALS

1.800:1-15-1. General requirements [AMENDED] 800:1-15-2. Hunter education certification requirements [AMENDED] 800:1-15-3. Instructors [AMENDED] Brings rules in line with state law; provide more hunter education options; provide more options for certifying hunter education volunteers, sets up volunteer incentive program.

2. 800:1-19-1. Instructors [NEW] 800:1-19-2. Administrative requirements [NEW] Sets up a new Subchapter 19 in Chapter 1 of Title 800 for Aquatic Education Rules.

3. 800:10-1-4. Size Limits on Fish [AMENDED] Delete Optima Lake from 14 inch black bass length limit and add tailwaters to the list of lakes that have 14-inch minimum length limits on walleye, sauger and saugeye (Altus-Lugert, Ellsworth, Fort Cobb, Foss and Lawtonka, and Murray lakes). Add Lone Chimney to the list of lakes with 14 inch black bass length limit.

4. 800:10-1-5. Bag limits on fish [AMENDED] Restrict angler harvest to one (1) blue catfish greater than or equal to (>) 30 inches. Delete creel limits for northern pike and muskellunge; delete hybrid limits on Optima, Ft. Supply, and Great Salt Plains.

5. 800:10-3-5. of bow and arrow, grabhooks, gigs, spears, and spearguns, snagging, noodling and netting Add seining and minnow traps to the list of legal means of collecting bait for personal use. (Emergency effective 10-17-08)

6. 800:10-5-1.1. Definitions [NEW] Add definitions of “artificial lures and flies”, “barbless hooks”, and “glass beverage containers”.

7. 800:10-5-2. Department fishing areas [AMENDED] 800:10-5-3. Designated trout areas [AMENDED] (1) Prohibit the possession of glass beverage containers at Department owned lakes, access areas and designated trout areas except in designated camp sites and parking lots. (2) Make fishing “catch & release only” for impoundments on the new Cimarron Bluff WMA. (3) Allow cast netting for shad in the Lower Illinois River designated trout area for the south boundary of the Marval trout camp downstream to the Highway 64 bridge.

8.800:15-7-4. Mussel sanctuaries [AMENDED] Add Robert S. Kerr (Pool 15) of the McClellan-Kerr Arkansas River Navigation System to the list of mussel sanctuaries.

9. 800:15-9-3. General; operating provisions [AMENDED] Add painted turtles (western and southern) and razor-back musk turtle to list of prohibited species for commercial turtle harvest.

10. 800:20-1-2. List of restricted exotic species [AMENDED] Permit only triploid grass carp to be stocked in private waters.

11. 800:20-4-1. Purpose [NEW] 800:20-4-2. Movement of aquatic plants [NEW] 800:20-4-3. List of restricted aquatic nuisance species [NEW] 800:20-4-4. Penalties [NEW] Create a new Title 800 Subchapter dealing specifically with aquatic nuisance species regulations. Restrict the movement of aquatic plants between waters of this state. Prohibit the possession of zebra or quagga mussels in Oklahoma.

12. 800:25-1-3. Deer archery hunting on Little River State Park [AMENDED] 800:25-1-4. Waterfowl hunting on Little River State Park [AMENDED] 800:25-1-5. Trapping on Little River State Park [AMENDED] Change the name of Little River State Park to Lake Thunderbird State Park and Area B to Hog Creek. Provide additional archery and waterfowl hunting and define legal traps.

13. 800:25-5-49. Permits for permanent or temporary blinds [AMENDED] Allow the blind drawings to be held on any weekend as determined by the Department.

14. 800:25-5-106. General Provisions [AMENDED] Tishomingo Wildlife Management Unit: (1) Allow vehicle access except during deer muzzleloader and regular deer gun season. (2) Provide additional waterfowl hunting opportunity.

15. 800:25-7-3. General Provisions [AMENDED] Remove Black Bears from the list of protected furbearers, add blaze orange requirement for bear season, and add bear to list of game species which may not be hunted with dogs. Delete unnecessary reference to prairie chickens.

16. 800:25-7-12. Pheasant [AMENDED] Allow flexibility to set pheasant bag limits each year based on population recruitment. This will allow increased hunting opportunity in years of high pheasant numbers.

17. 800:25-7-16. Wild turkey – Fall; legal means of taking [AMENDED] 800:25-7-18. Wild turkey – Spring; legal means of taking [AMENDED] Delete broadhead length exception for archery fall and spring turkey hunting to make consistent with deer archery requirements.

18. 800:25-7-27. General Provisions [AMENDED] 800:25-7-28. Dates, open areas, bag limit, hunting hours and legal means of taking [AMENDED] 800:25-7-29. License requirements [AMENDED] 800:25-7-30. Facilities and inspection [AMENDED] 800:25-7-31. Taking provisions [AMENDED] 800:25-7-32. Prohibited raptors [AMENDED] 800:25-7-33. General stipulations [AMENDED] Significant changes were made to Federal Falconry rules which necessitate changes to Oklahoma Falconry rules. These rule changes are required for Oklahoma to be in compliance with Federal rules.

19. 800:25-7-47. General Provisions for Antelope- Archery [NEW] 800:25-7-48. Dates, open areas, bag limits, hunting hours and regulations [NEW] Open an archery season for pronghorn antelope in Cimarron County and that portion of Texas County west of Highway 136. Licenses would be sold over-the-counter.

20. 800:25-7-51. Deer-archery [AMENDED] Add language to allow for use of mechanical broadheads that, when fully expanded, meet current minimum dimensions of legal broadheads for deer hunting. Delete the requirement that broadheads legal for deer hunting must be 1 ½ inches in length.

21. 800:25-7-54. Legal Firearm Specifications [AMENDED] Add language to allow for use of mechanical broadheads that, when fully expanded, meet current minimum dimensions of legal broadheads for deer hunting. Delete the requirement that broadheads legal for deer hunting must be 1 ½ inches in length.

22. 800:25-7-56. General provisions for elk [AMENDED] Change would eliminate the requirement for providing written landowner permission and legal description of land for purchasing an elk permit. It would allow personal checks to be used to purchase an elk permit. (Emergency effective 6-2-08)

23. 800:25-7-57. Dates, open areas, bag limit and hunting hours [AMENDED]This change would revise wording on the elk bag limit and would open elk hunting in designated counties in northeast Oklahoma. (Emergency effective 6-2-08)

24. 800:25-7-62. Open Areas [AMENDED] Delete Black Bear under closed statewide.

25. 800:25-7-64. General provisions for furbearers [AMENDED] Delete incorrect language which reads “..and no one may possess any Oklahoma bobcat or river otter pelt without a permanent tag affixed to the pelt.”

26. 800:25-7-66. General Provisions for black bear [NEW] 800:25-7-67. Dates, open areas, bag limits, hunting hours, legal means of take, quotas, prohibited activities [NEW] Establish a black bear season in Latimer, LeFlore, McCurtain and Pushmataha Counties. Limited harvest of 20 bears.

27. 800:25-7-75. General Provisions [AMENDED] Increase the annual Land Access Permit fee to fund the New Cooperative Agreement with Hancock, Rayonier, and Weyerhaeuser Timber Companies. (Emergency effective 6-2-08)

28. 800:25-7-83. Beaver River WMA [AMENDED] (1) Change deer primitive season bag limits to allow for whitetail antlerless harvest. (2) Remove controlled hunts opening weekend of deer gun season.

29. 800:25-7-88. Canton WMA [AMENDED] Change deer primitive season to same as statewide season and allow for harvest of antlerless deer.

30. 800:25-7-92.1. Cimarron Bluff WMA [NEW] Establish rules for the new Cimarron Bluff WMA. (Emergency effective 5-6-08)

31. 800:25-7-92.2. Cimarron Hills WMA [NEW] Establish rules for the new Cimarron Hills WMA.

32. 800:25-7-94. Copan WMA [AMENDED] Add language to archery reflecting 1 bird either sex and open turkey fall gun season to 1 tom limit.

33. 800:25-7-94.1. Cooper WMA [AMENDED] (1) Change deer primitive season regulations to allow for whitetail antlerless harvest. (2) Change deer gun season to remove controlled hunts on opening weekend.

34. 800:25-7-100. Fort Gibson WRP [AMENDED] Restrict firearms to rimfire and shotgun with pellets only.

35. 800:25-7-101. Fort Supply WMA [AMENDED] (1) Change deer primitive season regulations to allow for whitetail antlerless harvest. (2) Change deer gun season to remove controlled hunts on opening weekend.

36. 800:25-7-111. Hulah PHAWMA [AMENDED] Change the PHA to WMA and make turkey fall gun season and turkey spring season a 1 tom limit.

37. 800:25-7-112. Hulah WRP [REVOKED] Eliminate the Waterfowl Refuge designation and make it part of the WMA.

38. 800:25-7-119. Lake Thunderbird State Park Delete redundant language.

39. 800:25-7-129. Oologah WMA [AMENDED] Remove the shotgun and archery only restriction on Goose Island.

40. 800:25-7-131.1. Osage WMA Rock Creek Unit [AMENDED] Change turkey fall gun season and turkey spring season to a 1 tom limit.

41. 800:25-7-132.1. Ouachita WMA – Cucumber Creek Unit [NEW] Create Cucumber Creek Unit, walk-in access only in the Ouachita WMA. (Emergency effective 10-27-08)

42. 800:25-7-134. Packsaddle WMA [AMENDED] (1) Change deer primitive season bag limits to allow for whitetail antlerless harvest. (2) Change deer gun season to remove controlled hunts on opening weekend.

43. 800:25-7-137. Rita Blanca WMA [AMENDED] To allow archery pronghorn antelope hunting same as statewide season dates and allow pronghorn antelope controlled hunts during gun season.

44. 800:25-7-151. Tishomingo WMU/Cooperative Unit [AMENDED] Expanded opportunity for selected species. Remove shotgun and archery only restriction.

45. 800:25-9-2. General provisions [AMENDED] 800:25-9-3. Applications and instructions [AMENDED] 800:25-9-4. Categories [AMENDED] 800:25-9-5. Permits and fees [AMENDED] 800:25-9-11. Cimarron and Texas County (west of Highway 136) landowner permits [AMENDED] 800:25-9-12. General Antelope Regulations [AMENDED] Clarify language and simplify drawing process for landowner antelope permitting procedures.

46. 800:25-25-3. Exemptions [AMENDED] Delete language after the word cats and add ‘except native cats and bears’. Delete language after dogs and add ‘except coyotes’. (Emergency effective 3-11-08)

47. 800:30-1-4. Camping [AMENDED] Update information under camping on WMA’s.

48. 800:30-1-5. Vehicles [AMENDED] Eliminate the use of ORV’s and ATV’s on the Three Rivers WMA except under specific restrictions. Allow licensed deer hunters to use an ATV/ORV for the retrieval of lawfully taken and tagged deer under certain regulations. (Emergency effective 6 –2-08)

49. 800:30-1-7. Livestock and feral hogs [AMENDED] Add language to allow hunters to take feral hogs on Honobia, Three Rivers and Broken Bow WMA’s during any established hunting season with method of take authorized by the Department for that hunting season.

50. 800:30-3-2. General Provisions [AMENDED] 800:30-3-3. Site Development [AMENDED] Add specific oil and gas exploration and development requirements for Department areas with commercial or municipal fresh water production. The state does a real good job of making changes to rules and regulations without taking opinions of the local area hunters into mind. Especially bowhunters . Just look what happen last year in the south eastern part of the state with all the land there. As you can see above there were so many ,50, proposed changes it is hard to keep up. Since most of this came up last January, at public hearings, it is probably too late to do anything about it now. I do not like the changes that were made at Beaver River which is one of my favorite public hunting areas to go to. Gun huntere out number us bowhunters so they usually get what they want . Bowhunters get whats left over.

Hi arrowfinger I don't see anything in the proposed amendments about allowing gun and muzzelloading in the Tishamingo wildlife unit. I read as not allowing vehicle access during those seasons. Look at # 14 on the list from Grizzly Mike

Hi arrowfinger I don't see anything in the proposed amendments about allowing gun and muzzelloading in the Tishamingo wildlife unit. I read as not allowing vehicle access during those seasons. Look at # 14 on the list from Grizzly Mike

I think it would fall under #44

44. 800:25-7-151. Tishomingo WMU/Cooperative Unit [AMENDED] Expanded opportunity for selected species. Remove shotgun and archery only restriction.

~Troy

On # 50 Where the statement starts "The state does a real good job of making changes" from there to the end of the paragraph is my opinion and is not part of #50 I apologize for not starting another paragraph there

On # 50 Where the statement starts "The state does a real good job of making changes" from there to the end of the paragraph is my opinion and is not part of #50 I apologize for not starting another paragraph there

Thanks I will check it out

They MIGHT be talking about a limited draw, like they have over at the Refuge for muzzleloaders. If that's what they are talking about, I don't think that it would hurt anything. Over there, they issue a very limited amount of permits over a very few days.

Now, if you know anything about the unit, it is way under utilized by the hunting public, compared to the old days. In recent years, I know for a fact that the Fed was considering shutting the whole place down, because it was not cost effective to keep it going. A few years ago, I spoke with officials at the refuge, and begged them to keep the WMU open and keep planting the big bottom. They said they would, that they didn't think that anyone even cared. They said that I was the ONLY one that expressed any interest in the place. Needless to say, I was shocked. Now, I'm not taking credit for saving the place, but merely relating the facts as they occurred. So, it might be a good thing if they opened it up to a limited firearm hunt, in order to keep the place going. I started hunting there in 1962, and have not missed a year since. It holds a lot of good memories for me. I guess that we will see what happens. John

Hello Jeff, I believe it is in no. 44, remove archery and shotgun only restrictions. It says amended. According to the person I talked with from the wildlife department. It is passed. It will be open to gun hunters this fall. I am just going by what he told me. He is also the person that entered the proposal.

John,I think they plant in the big bottom there mainly for the ducks and geese. And the proposal is to open the area to the public. Not a draw only. I know because I have talked to department personal about it.If it were for draw only hunters I agree, that wouldn't be so bad. I honestly don't know how many people would hunt it. Because it is a walkin area. That is probably why there isn't a lot of bowhunters. Most people don't want to walk very far. And it makes it more difficult to get an animal out.

I'll make you a bet old buddy. If they do in fact open it up to the guns, you better not get near the place unless you want to get shot. I can give you several places that are public ground, walk in only. There is an orange coat every direction that you look. And I'm not kidding either. To open it up, will put an end to the deer hunting there.

And yes, the wheat is planted for the waterfowl, and always has been. The deer love it, and it's a very good place to set up, on the fringes. I know of several spots there, that will be no good as soon as the guns show up, and I am a gun hunter myself. I'd like to strangle the idiot that brought up that proposal. It probably passed because no one found out in time to marshal the forces to oppose it. Sure hate to see it happen. John

Even if they allow gun hunters in there, wont it be just for the first 9 days of gun season only, like the rest of the WMA's?

OT man, That is probably right. First nine days of the season. But it will also be open during the muzzle loader season. John, you are right. It will ruin that area when they start gun hunting there. And I did alert the Bowhunting Council, and was told they would look into it.I guess they weren't able to stop it. If they attempted to stop it at all. I feel like you, I am sick about. I have hunted that area since the 1980's and it has been a great place to hunt. I wish I would have posted about it back in Janurary when I heard about the proposal. Maybe enough of us could have called in and stopped it. If you would like to know the persons name that made the proposal, send me a PM and I'll give you that persons name. I had a talk with him a few days ago and let him know how I feel about it. But it still won't change anything. Arrowflinger..

Thanks, but no thanks. I don't want to be in jail during our September hog hunt. John

The harvest totals that Troy gave are way off. This may be what was reported but this is not accurate. I know many people that take deer from this place every year. Most of them don't report them as being taken there. This is a loss for all that like to bowhunt there. Being a walk in area for archery only is what makes this place great. All this boils down to is someone with some stroke wanted to gun hunt this place and made it happen. He probably saw a nice buck and is not a good enough hunter to take him with a bow. So now he'll get to take his rifle in there. This is a poke in the eye for those of us that don't mind working hard for a deer or hog. I guess there's no use crying about it. Let's just make the best of it and take advantage of the property that we have to hunt publicly. This is a great resource that all of us should utilize.

"The harvest totals that Troy gave are way off. This may be what was reported but this is not accurate. I know many people that take deer from this place every year."

Then those who took deer here and didn't report it are partially to blame. How in the world is the ODWC supposed to 'manage' a public hunting area without the hunters providing accurate harvest statistics.

If the harvest objective was being met by bowhunters for this area they would not have increased hunting pressure by allowing ML or guns in. Doesn't matter if someone had some stroke or not.

~Troy

Amen, Troy!

I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers Troy, sorry if I did. Not trying to cause a fuss. The departement shouldn't go by the harvest totals when determining this anyway. They do a deer count every year. I have also hunted this area for many years now. I do not believe there are too many deer for the bowhunters to control. There have been years when I had a hard time seeing deer. I have also taken two P&Y bucks off of this land. This law would have passed if there were only three deer on the whole place. This is why I think we as hunters should have some say, maybe a vote, to determine how OUR state and federal land is managed. The system in Oklahoma has it's flaws as does other states, but I just wish the department would take in account what the every day hunter like me and you have to say. The gun hunt is gonna happen, this is true. Let's just make the best of it. Hell, there have been several times that I have been bow hunting the Unit and had gun hunters walk by me. The entire south border joins private land. I even had a four wheeler drive right by me. When I reported it to the warden, I was told it would be hard to prove! Tell me those guys don't know the right people. If your wildlife law enforcement don't protect our resources then how are we supposed to?

No harm No foul on this end :)

~Troy

SEOkie, you hit the nail on the head! You killed two P&Y bucks in that area. I talked to a fellow that lives in Tishomingo and he showed me pictures of at least three deer he killed in that area that went 140 or better. He told me there are some people around Tishomingo that heard about the big bucks coming from that area and want to hunt the area with there guns. (Like you said, they are to lazy to bowhunt.) They talked with the person who made the proposal, who is also from Tishomingo and works for the wildlife department, and convinced him to make the proposal. I know this is true because I know the man that made the proposal. Although he denied the reason for doing it. As I stated above he says he did it because there are not enough places to hunt. Obviously he is helping out his gun hunting buddies in Tishomingo. I really liked that area. It was a good place to get away from the crowd. It will never be the same now.!

Tish is as good as it is because it is a walk in area. When they start letting anyone drive in then it will go down hill from there. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that place during gun season.

SEOkie, I believe the area will also be walk in for the gun hunters. The only hunters allowed to drive in are waterfowl hunters. The walk in only may disgourage some but it will probably have a lot of hunters for the first few years. I know over at the deep fork area it is bow and muzzle loader only. If you hunt during the archery season you see very few people if any. But go during ML season there are a lot of hunters. I would say that even being a walk in area, it will never be the same. Might hunt it before and after gun season, and stay away during the gun season. No matter now, It will never be the same.

I heard through the grapevine that they were going to open it up. Just heresay though.

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