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Crossbows

The State is taking public comments on a proposal to allow crossbows in the archery season for hunters aged 55 and older. Please let them know what you think about crossbows in our season. [email protected]

Opening the door up for Crossbows during the regular season. This is step closer to seeing it all the time for anybody. Not in favor.

If this is for retention of bowhunters as they claim why are Georgia bowhunting license sales going down every year. Answer it doesn't work for recruitment or retention. Just makes money for the ATA manufacturers! Jay McAnnich(sp)ATA president used to work for the MNDNR.

DNR's website has an online opinion poll up and running now. Go to the hunting portion of their site and it's on the bottom.

I am not in favor of cross bows for anyone that can't qualify for a disability permit. A "legal" bow in MN is now at 30 pounds.

If they can't pull a 30 pound bow then they should qualify for the disability/cross bow permit. It's as simple as that in my mind.

As one who is significantly beyond age 55 I well understand the many competing interests for my time that interfere with bowhunting. I believe others have the same issues and that is why bowhunting participation decreases with age. It isn't because I am looking for an easier way to hunt or for a weapon that doesn't require the strength of a bow! Come on, get real, if that were the case I would simply take up gun hunting. If physical strength is a problem Minnesotan's already have the option of getting a doctor's allowance recommendation.

Minnesota Bowhunters Inc. strongly opposes this proposal and I encourage all of you to consider supporting us in this opposition through membership. You may never spend a better $20! Let's work together to ensure we protect Minnesota's bowhunting heritage for ourselves and future generations.

If you need a little more incentive to join browse to the link I provided to read about the 2010 MBI membership drive. All who join or renew in 2010 will be entered into a drawing with some great prizes - 1st prize is a new Mathews bow.

Dwayne

The link above is to the DNR online survey. Regardless how you feel about the DNR proposals please take the time to tell them! Dwayne

The link above is to the DNR online survey. Regardless how you feel about the DNR proposals please take the time to tell them! Dwayne

I did the survey and I contacted the DNR sperately on individual issues, crossbow being one of them. NOT in favor of crossbow ruling!

I did the survey. I voted no to the cross bow. If you can't pull a 30 pound compound back, how are you going to manage a crossbow?

Me personally I dont care if some one uses crossbows or not but I am not voting because I dont have an opnion on this one besides its the persons choice. Just like inline muzzel loaders and flint locks. Its a personal decission.

Some cross bows have a cocking aid, like a crank. Otherwise you can pull with both arms and use your foot.

I'm in favor of letting people with disabilities use one, just not other "healthy" people during our Archery season. Anyone can still use a cross bow during the gun season....

Don't pollute/dilute our archery season.

Only visit here once in awhile and just heard about this but I wonder if the longbowmen and recurve shooters were sounding like some of us when the compound came out. I built a board bow when I was in Boy Scouts along with the string and arrows and I have an old Ben Pearson recurve, now I shoot a 14 yr old compound. I know about three people who shoot a crossbow and only one of them gets a deer regularly and that has more to do with his knowledge of deer and animals than any bow he shoots (he used to shoot a compound). Lets hang together, its in our own best interest and no I will not have a crossbow ever.

I use a crossbow based on a permanent disability permit, however virtually anyone can use one as is. Do you realize how easy it is to get a temporary crossbow permit? All it takes is any Dr or Chiropractor to sign the form....thats it.

Except they should do a history and an exam to see if you qualify.....

I'm thinking about purchasing a youth bow set at 30 pounds to add to my examination for patients wanting a x-bow permit. Then it can be business expense and my son can hunt with it this fall. WIN-win!

Awesome snapcrackpot! I am also against. If you can't draw 30#s, then ok, give the permit for x-bow. Otherwise, hunt with the xbow during gun seasons. Keep the seasons as they are.

Sorry, I meant snapcrackpop!

I went to the DNR meeting last night and it sounds like they want to pass the crossbow law. We argued against it but they were defending their side. Please take the online survey!!!

Thanks for the update. I believe that the DNR will listen to the majority, but hopefully us bowhunters are the majority and letting them know.

If someone has a medical/physical reason, I'm fine with the permit system now used. But this is where we have to draw the line. Even a 85% let-off compound has to be drawn and released in a short time. With a crossbow the person cocks it and can spend the whole day with it sitting on shooting sticks/rest, and pull the trigger when the intended target is in the scope! I don't care if they are only as effecient as a modern compound--it is not a bow! Please read Curt Well's column in this weeks "Outdoor News". Archers now shoot less deer than crossbow users in Ohio. As Curt says,"we are the minority".

I am really disappointed to read the MSAA {MN State Archery Association} is supporting Crossbow legislation. All bow hunters opposing this legislation should let them know how you feel.

I hope Dewayne will continue to update on here MBI's fight to keep this legislation from happening.

I don't think anyone is against people with true disabilities who use a crossbow during archery season.

But we should further degrade the archery season by letting any able-bodied person use a crossbow?!? You've got to be kidding. AS THINGS STAND NOW, anyone who wants to can hunt thirty (30) DAYS with a crossbow in Minnesota -- including the rut!

Does it take a little more time and effort to learn to shoot and hunt with a bow? Yes. That's why the season is a little longer and less crowded; it should stay that way.

Other than the obvious argument made by crossbow lobbyists -- "we want to make money selling crossbows and are tying to create a market for them at the expense of archers and archery season" -- the other arguments that I've heard in favor of crossbows during archery season could also be made in favor of rifles with lesser loads during archery season.

Seriously, what pro-crossbow argument is there that could not also be made in favor of reduced rifle/shotgun loads being used during archery season?

There are "Managed Recoil" loads already with a range of about 200 yards. Why should be "exclude" the big ammo manufacturers from marketing "Archery Season Legal" loads that might have an effective range of 50(?) yards. And of course, you could shoot them from any rifle but will probably want a special barrel with the right twist rate for those light loads loads... I'm sure those manufacturers would love it. Doesn't make it right though.

Other than people trying to make a buck selling do-dads to the outdoors market, who REALLY wants to head toward all-weapons seasons? (which are sure to be shorter and even more crowded for anyone who does not own their own land.) Not me (even though I DO own some hunting land.)

At this point, the online survey has about 85% supporting crossbows. This according to the wildlife manager in Little Falls.

Surprise. I see you can take the survey as many times as you want. The DNR, like usual, will get the results it wants.

If this is to become law, what I don't understand is what is with the age "55" giving you the advantage of shooting a crossbow? If it's an age thing, then maybe 60, but 50s are way too early to say you can't pull a bow and accurately shoot an arrow. There's no logic here, so it's most likely about numbers again and not the quality of the sport. But maybe the logic is "they let us lower the poundage to 35 lb, I'll bet we can get crossbows in now too!" So what's next?

I really think there is a PC agenda to this. There is a minority group that would gain and one of the leaders is out of St. Paul that was trying to push this through several yrs ago. There is another crowd that are strictly gunnies and want this also, seen it in Wi developed and pushed through, just like scopes on ML. We are own worst enemy; if it was my way we would spend the clock back 40 yrs and keep it that way and hunting would be better for it.

After attending the DNR input(output)mtg last night I'm convinced Lou has a senator or rep to introduce this right now. Given figures from other states He told me they were all "baked by MBI and P&Y". BY all means tell everone you know to do the survey and not just the crossbow question because LOU is the guy who counts them and I get the impression big time that unless you gun hunt(part of the 480k not the 25k who bowhunt only) He's not apt to even look twice. Get to know your legislators because this is where it's going to go. I may be wrong but better be prepared.

So much for recruitment and retention. Folks with time and money will head out of state, buy land or lease. Folks hunting public land will get fed up and stop buying lisences. Or course then they will say the the resource is underulitlzed and open crossbows to anybody. I don't know but I'm begining to think that Lou C. could care less about bowhunters. Off to take the survey again....

You guys are right on. The comment I got from a state rep. on this was he didn't like it but "this will be a hard one to stop" This is not good. Call your state rep and senator now and let them know how you feel. E mail them-- do something to help the cause. I have already been told that if the crossbow people end up sustantially killing more deer on top of what we archery people kill, season adjustments will be made. {shortened} Bonus areas will be adjusted. This will have an impact down the road. This will go from over age 55 requirement to full blown crossbow hunting in a couple years. Are we content with a shorter season, less opportunity?? Are we willing to give up a unique hunting season for like archery to share with crossguns? Get people involved to fight this, don't wait.

Phantom, No archery season has been shortened due to a state adding a crossbow season. OH has had a crossbow season for 30 years and they have a lot of deer and a lot of big deer.

Henry, The MN DNR picked age 55 because they kow they are losing a LOT of bowhunters between the age of 45 and 55. If they can keep those guys out bowhunting, it is better for everybody. So what if they are shooting a crossbow or compound bow. Aren't they still flinging arrows? How is that bad?

The reason they are doing this is to get more people out hunting. If you think they aren't going to drop the age limit down to anyone in the future you are just kiding yourself. I have alway told freinds that if they wanted to bow hunt to come and hunt with me at my property. Now I have to make sure they are not showing up with a cross gun. If they don't have the dedication to hunt with a real bow they can hunt some where else.

'losing a LOT of bowhunters between 45-55'...where exactly are you getting that from, Kansas?

In 2008 & 2009, MN archery license sales were 98,386 and 99,474 respectively. That is significantly HIGHER THAN EVER BEFORE and came directly from the DNR's 2009 harvest report.

And this while crossbows are not legal in the archery season (but are already legal for anyone who would like to hunt with them for 30+ days each year, including the rut.)

Goshawk, Those numbers come from the MN DNR. I am not saying your archery numbers are dropping, but you are losing archers over age 45 at a drastic rate and the DNR is trying to slow that drop off.

Orange, Great way to treat your friends.

Kansas- What numbers? You didn't post any. Show us the exact DNR numbers you are referring to please. MN DNR has no sound evidence we are losing hunters and specifically that this measure would make any difference in those numbers. If you believe this has anything to do with hunter recruitment your dead wrong. DNR will tell give you the kool aid if you choose to drink it. Those choosing to hunt over age 55 can hunt crossgun with a special permit. We are depriving no one who legitamately needs to use one to hunt. My shortened season comment came from two wildlife managers from the DNR so you are wrong again, it is an option that will be looked at if needed. Scroll back thru the threads and see the comments on this- many good points that ring true in MN if you hunt here to any extent. Maybe things are different in the land of ruby slippers or your native state of Ohio. As stated above the real issue facing hunters in MN is frustration with access to private land, over crowding on public land, etc. Hunter recruitment dollars could better be used working in this problem area. This is nothing more then a money bonanza for the Crossbow makers and sport shops.

Kansas, I was supprised to your response about treating friends. I told them all when I first got my property, that there isn't room for us all to gun hunt so I will have bowhunting only, even for myself. Now why would I change that and let crossbows in. I have already talked to one friend and he laughed. I said hey if you want you can get a bow and come down. He said no he just wanted to get something he could shoot like a gun. We both laughed and are still good friends.

Phantom, I will attach a couple of charts that MN has and that is my reference. The chart is older, but the MN DNR will confirm the trend has not changed. In states like WI where 65 and overs can use crossbows, that drop is drastically slower.

I agree on the access to hunting land. That is something we all fight no matter what state you are in. I also agree that if there was an impact that shortened seasons would be an answer for the DNR, what I said is that there has never been a season shortened where they added crossbows to archery. If it hasn't been an impact in OH, WY, AR, GA, AL, KY, TN, SC, WI, and VA, why would MN be any different?

What most states will say is the increase in numbers of hunters are not new people joining the ranks they are simply firearm hunters attempting Crossgun hunting. Those numbers are temorary only as many of those will drop out. Total number of overall hunters will not increase. This graph merely shows that as hunters get older, numbers start decreasing like most everything else in life. There is NO proof that allowing Crossguns into this scenario will increase hunter numbers. Who is to say those numbers are decreasing because we don't allow crossgun hunting after 55? My opinion is the graph represents loss of hunter access resulting in hunter frustration and hunters quit. The statistics gathered from the bear hunters survey indicated the biggest reason most quit was due to lack of quality experience from over crowding. Lack of access creates over crowding issues. Wisconsin has thousands more hunters and mention the word Crossbow on their thread and see their response. This is simply a shell game that the DNR throws out there to sell the change being pushed by certain legislators representing the crossbow industry and bow manufactures. They pay alot of money in salary and program costs to their new hunter retention coordinator. The beef is the money can be spent more wisely on hunter access issues. If we don't have access the number of hunters will not matter. Over crowding and less quality hunts will cause hunters demise, they quit, numbers dwindle. It will not matter how liberal a state wants to be in their Crossgun allowances. This is nothing more then good feeling legislation. If they want to allow crossbow hunting then set up their own season and coordinate it with the muzzle loader hunters as their weapon most closly resembles a gun then bow. We have allowances that permit crossgun hunting now during the firearm season and with a special permit all season long. Opportunity already exists. The DNR is not opposing this legislation because it means more $.

Yep, the age-55 thing sure seems like a thinly veiled foot being wedged in the door. I hope we are wrong, but the attitude of the DNR/MDHA/crossbow mfg lobby seems to be:

'Why NOT absolutely maximize the pressure on the MN deer herd? Sure, we already have a 16 day gun season which has been moved up from it's historical spot on the calendar so it sits right on top of the rut...but during the rest of fall, the only pressure/revenue comes from 100k bowhunters, even more small game hunters, grouse & pheasant hunters, bear hunters, waterfowl hunters, a few turkey hunters, ATVers, hikers, bikers and geo-cachers. If we could just get some percentage of the firearm-only deer hunting group out there at the same time...we could get even more license revenue! And it would create a whole new do-dad market for do-dad mfg's! Yeah,sure, we're already killing 70-90% of the yearling bucks in the state every year but...who cares? At least we're giving the pee-on MN residents "opportunity".'

Phantom, you're right on! Now we're all going to have to contact our legislators cause that's where this is going.

Orange feather

"If they don't have the dedication to hunt with a real bow they can hunt some where else"

Do you mean a long bow or recurve as a REAL bow? I don't think a compound bow is a REAL bow.

We are sunk anyway as the over 55 Crossbow allowance will pass this session. Would have already if Palenty had signed the Game and Fish Bill as it was in there and a done deal.

Phantom, it was not in the last legislation but you will see in this years for 65 and older, if anyone has your attitude we are sunk, we will still be able to fight it in legislation.

Macho boys- In case you don’t know, and probably never will, there is more to archery hunting than being able to pull back 30 pounds. I won’t get into it and you won’t get it until you get to be my age.

Tell me how a few senior citizens stumbling around the woods with crossbows is going to affect YOU. And please don’t use that age old statement about it will “increase the deer harvest and then they (DNR) will shorten the archery season.” They said that some forty years ago when the compound bow was legalized for archery hunting and they said it again when the release was legalized for archery hunting a few years after that. To this day neither has shorten the hunting season even a day.

Yes the crossbow makes shooting a little easier but so does the compound bow with it’s disgusting 85% let off. And what about those amazing mechanical releases that you all use because you can’t shoot a bow with your fingers. And what about all those fancy sights you have to have because you can’t shoot a bow without them.

Be careful because some day, hopefully, you will be of that age and want to spend a few more days in the woods hunting and shooting the bow just isn’t FUN anymore because you can’t shoot accurately anymore and you don’t feel like wounding a deer.

Increase harvest because of the crossbow? Actually the DNR wants you to kill deer that’s why they have a hunting season. That’s why some zones you can kill up to five deer, the DNR doesn’t care by which means you accomplish it. You can’t shoot anymore deer with a crossbow than you can a gun.

Depriving a few senior citizens the opportunity to keep hunting like the rest of you. Hunting that they have probably done for 30or 40 years and just want to hunt a couple more years!

You should be ashamed and so should the MBI.

Randy- 55 and over wait and see. MN is already interviewing potential candidates for Commissioner that want two lining in the summmer for fishing on and on. Wait and see, the DNR will become even more liberalized than they have been.

Handicap man- wasn't us saying they may have to look at the length of deer season if crossbows were allowed it was DNR Wildlife managers at the meetings. Got a gripe with it give them a call. 40 years ago the deer population was a fraction what it is now so I doubt we are comparing same. Either way it is not an issue with deer numbers but it is with "overcrowding".

They are trying to sell it as hunter retention when in fact it won't help retain hunters numbers at all. You have a disability you can use a crossbow now, just follow the steps to do it.

rodb, I am that age and most guys I hunt with are older and don't want crossbows in Archery season also. Becoming 65 shouldn't automatically make you handicapped. When you lay your check on the stock, look through a scope and flip the safety off before shooting you're not bowhunting.

rodb, actually I only hunt with a recurve but I don't have a problem with wheels. Do I give my freinds a hard time about using trainging wheels? Of course I do, just kidding around. No one is getting deprived of their last years of hunting if they can't pull a bow. Some day I may not beable to pull my bow and will have to go to a compound, and then some day I may have to go to a gun or camera.

If any of you don`t think the archery season has gotten any shorter in Mn. You`d better check the regs. In the 300 area where I live, there is now 36 days of gun hunting! I am NOT hunting when any of those morons are in the woods, and I don`t gun hunt. If none of this has had any effect, then why did we go from 5 tags last year to 1 tag period this year? They`re certainly not ADDING any days to the archery season! You know damn well they will be jamming the crossbows down our throats anyway. They`re already doing it in state after state! And every state bowhunting organization has an anti-crossbow committee for what it`s all been worth. If it has a trigger, they already have a season for that!

X-gun made legal, the state may as well just go to a generic season and let everything go. Like one warden said, "it is the choice of weapons for poachers". I still say the trad hunters should have their own season that start 14 days before the gun season, sounds like reasonable solution since we are a minority and Mn likes to support the minority group over the majority. We can not lose our Tradition.