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Transporting deer across state lines
I thought I would post this ..... maybe something can be learned from my mistakes. Many of you know that I killed a real nice buck back in mid-Nov. Well, I gave my deer to my taxidermist for him to mount. I've had the same taxidermist for many years. He has mounted about half a dozen bucks for me and several more for friends of mine. The gentleman is from upstate New York and he comes out here every year to bow hunt. This is how I met him. He is a super good guy and owns one of the best taxidermy studios in upstate New York. I believe he has 3 or 4 employees in his studio. When I gave my buck and a friends buck to my taxidermist one evening, he was getting ready to go back home early the next morning. Well, to make a long story short..... he took our heads back with him without caping them and with the skull intact. I've never been lucky and things haven't changed. When he got back home the NY DEC (same as our DNR) walked into his shop for other business reasons and noticed these heads. The NY DEC ended up taking our deer heads and issuing the taxidermist citations for each head (3 heads total). The NY DEC then sent our heads in to be tested for CWD and those results came back negative(thank goodness). So, at this point the NY DEC has my deer head that tested negative for CWD and I have done absolutely nothing illegal, but there is a good possiblity I may not get my head back. I talked with the arresting officer, and he talked like the NY DEC would be getting intouch with the IDNR back here in Illinois. So I talked with Mr Jack Price and he said he would do what he could to help on this end. I then got Mr Price's phone number back to the CPO. As you can see, this has been a real nightmare. I know my taxidermist should have known the law, but he is human and human's make mistakes. My guess is he knew the law but at 8PM he did not want to cape 3 deer heads and then leave at 4 AM to go home. BTW, my taxidermist is also a part-time Niagra County policeman and has mounted (and I quote)"litterly 100's of mounts for the NY DEC with no charges for them". These mounts for the NY DEC were taken from hunters who illegally harvested the animals. He has mounted 2 robo full body buck mounts for free to be used by the CPO's in the NY DEC. And he repairs them at no cost each year too. According to the taxidermist, the DEC has made upwards of $100,000 from fines alone using these robo bucks. My taxidermist has also helped gather the samples to be sent in for CWD testing in the northern district of NY. He has done this for no charge to the DEC. He even knows the head of the NY DEC personally and they exchange Christmas cards annually. Well, he had his court date.... yesterday (12-20) and all charges were dropped. And it appears we will be getting our deer heads back. I believe all is going to end well, but wanted to make this post so that anyone who transports their deer heads across state line knows the law. If it had of been myself, and not my taxidermist, who broke the law taking the heads across the state line into NY, I can guarrentee I would have lost my deer. So, again..... I strongly suggest you all know the laws.
And as a side note....I, also want to give a special thanks to Mr Price.
Thank You Mr. Price also for helping "Farmer"!
I know of that law and I know most probably do not. You'd be surprised of all the deer that leave Illinois and that come into Illinois this way. DNR would have a field day or a nightmare trying to 'catch' all of these critters.
This law holds true also for any 'split hoof animal' from Canada coming into the U.S.A.
farmer, sadly, when they do the cwd testing, they pretty much ruin the cape. too bad too, b/c that deer was a pig. hope you can find a cape big enough to replace it.
ryanrc..... it just so happens..... I have another cape. :) It's not quite as big, but close enough. It is from an old grey faced hump nosed buck that was going down hill from age. The cape is not perfect, but what capes are?
Murphey finds you at every turn. I bet you can even hear his voice when your about to do something. He only lets you kill big deer to torment you, and entertain me, and or us. :]]]]]] he has a sick sense of humor that way.
I hope you get your head back.
There's an article in NAW about this kinda thing in New Jersey. Makes you wonder what's was taken illegal and what wasn't.
What is the law these days? Head has to be skinned I take it, what about whole deer?
What about all the people who come out of the south.When they come back alot go thru Kentucky with the whole deer.I don't believe they can legally do that.
If you don't get that head back.....I say we make a road trip!!!!!!!!! The South will rise again!!!! :)
The CWD law is loaded with regulation. It is a precautionary faith based law. I would like to see one case, one document, where a hunter transported a CWD infected animal part into another state and stated an outbreak of CWD? This is as silly as making a law that it is illegal to eat because you might get poisoned.
New York announced reports of CWD findings in their state but like everywhere else, they are guessing about how it arrived and/or spread. And of course, the Media was all over it and for awhile there, we had Mt Horeb all over again. I remember a similar incident to Farmer's when an IL hunter actually did lose his trophy buck by taking the head to a St Louis taxidermist and IDNR picked it up. That was when the sky was falling in IL and I have never heard if the guy ever got his deer back or not. I hope he is as lucky.
But...it is the the law, as overboard as it is, not to take deer parts across state lines with the exception of skin, antlers, and boned meat. When this law first went into action, a hunter had drive AROUND Il to get his property back home. Sooo, I guess the lawmakers are working on it. I commend someone (Mr Price) for using some commonsense. No wonder he gets paid so much! 8^)
Just hard to imagine that Farmer seems so calm over all this 8^)
You mean Mr. Price gets paid? (not enough probably)
I bet "FARMER" ain't calm! (<:
CWD scare..is just that! It don't scare 'us' per-se' but it scares State Wildlife Agencies....because, they have to have something to do! If it wasn't "for that", what would they have to do??
We as a society (politicians anyway) are scared of "smoking, seatbelts, CWD, Guns, etc."....they better start being scared of THE PEOPLE! They better start wondering if their '4 year job' is ENDING SOON!
No Health Care, No State-Fed Retirement, No Paid Trips, No Kickbacks, No N O T H I N G!....Social Security and you make it on your own! SINK or SWIM!!! NO LIFE JACKETS from the "public"!
Deer Transportation across ILlinois State Lines! Into or out of....is Illegal by law....Unless, the meat is 'deboned' and the skullcap is removed of ALL Brain Material and CLEAN! IF a skull goes out...or in...it also has to be removed of all brain material and "CLEAN"! (but that is bone also....so I wouldn't want to try it).....I wonder....how many Semi-Trucks go across our State Lines with BRAIN MATERIAL in their grills??
Something else to think about huh?
I am glad things worked out for the best, Farmer...Losing a head like that would be devastating. Knowing this law had me put my ducks in a row on my trip to the midwest this year. All I would have to do is kill my buck of a lifetime and have some hysteria driven lawman confiscate it. I'd also like to know how this dead deer in the back of the truck spreading prions?????
----wonder....how many Semi-Trucks go across our State Lines with BRAIN MATERIAL in their grills??----
Good point, Herm
Speed, I haven't been all that calm about this ordeal ...... just asked the Mrs!!! I think I've even started stuttering because of all this BS. What gets me is that NY had the same policy for deer coming from PA(PA is also a CWD state), but a couple days before the PA gun season this fall, NY removed their CWD status on those deer coming back into New York from PA. The reason was because so many NY hunters go to PA deer hunting it would have been a big a$$ mess trying to enforce that law. Duh!!! as if it isn't for other states!!!!
My point in having this thread is so that all of those hunters (mostly NR hunters) who will be transporting deer parts, will learn they must know the laws in their state as well as in Illinois. Don't think this same thing can't happen to you..... it can. Next season, or this season if need be, anyone hunting in the Ashland, Chandlerville, Virginia and/or Beardstown area that wants to know a taxidermist who will cape their deer for them so they can get it back home legally just let me know. I'll be glad to give them that info. Those of you hunting with an outfitter, I also suggest you ask him if he can accommendate helping you get your skull plate cut out and the meat boned. Again, I stress having your deer and body parts legal when going into another state. If I would have done anything illegal.... anything at all..... the state of New York would have kept my deer head. Actually, I think they were trying to think of reason they could keep it........ don't quote me on this, but I think their state record bow kill is only about 6 to 10 inches bigger than mine.
"I wonder how many Semi-trucks go across our state lines with brain material in their grills?" Very goooood point Herm.
Another point made by my taxidermist..... Dead deer in the back of a pickup do not cause CWD. Give me one case that it has.
Farmer,i know what you went thru. This year I shot a 160 inch buck in Iowa. I have hunted Il.and do know the CWD rules for Il.,but didn't know for Iowa.So I called my taxidermist in Pa. who has did 5 other mounts for me,(deer) and he said he would check on the law. Well he got back to me the next day,I had it caped out by then.He said the Pa.Game Commission said there was no confirmed cases from Iowa and it was ok to bring back the cape with skull plate attached,I said are you sure? He again said yes. I then hunted for 10 more days and brought back my buck with cape and skull plate attached. I sure didn't want the Conservation officers to confiscate my buck as it was the biggest I ever harvested.The laws do vary from state to state for sure. Glad you are getting your heads back to you.
Headhunter- Excellent post.
We always debate the value of education on here and we can all learn something from this. Your buck of a lifetime is in jeopardy unless you know exactly what the law is about transporting animal parts. I wouldn't believe anyone and would read the law myself. Such articles of memorabilia can never be replaced. Better safe than sorry.
I've learned a lot from this thread, thanks guys.
Farmer, I'm glad to hear things are being resolved so you will get your head back, and settled in time for you to still have an enjoyable Christmas.
There are so many laws, that it's almost impossible to keep up with all of them. Hunters are the most regulated group of outdoor enthusiasts in the country. Yet we contribute the most to the establishment and conservation of wildlife and habitat of any group. Like I've said in earlier posts, the IDNR really needs to do a better job at educating the public about hunters, hunting, etc., as well as more readily sharing information with hunters themselves.
Otherwise, I don't know how a guy is supposed to stay apprised of all the BS laws and regulations. Heck, when I came to Illinois back in '89 with the military, I had 13 guns packed in the back of my Bronco and had never even heard of a FOID card, much less have one. Luckily, I didn't run in to any problems. But, I can imagine the stress and turmoil it would have caused me if the cops had impounded my guns.
I'm sure this ordeal with the NY DEC caused you a lot of unneccesary stress. Hopefully you can relax and still go get another big one out there on your place in these next few weeks. Good luck!
Dead Deer Passing On "CWD"?
A few years back, on the internet, I heard of a hunter taking a mule deer in Colorado....he was from Arkansas.....Colorado DNR took 'samples of killed deer' (I giuess at a check station) to check for CWD.
The hunter after checking his deer in and Game & Fish taking it's 'samples' the hunter returned home to Arkansas. He took his deer to a processor there and all was well!.......UNTIL.....Colorado Game & Fish called him and informed him NOT TO EAT HIS DEER it tested POSITIVE and they wanted to know where all the "material" was at??
He informed them it was at a butcher shop being processed and Colorado wanted the name of the business. Colorado got ahold of Arkansas Game & Fish and they went and confiscated meat and shut the business down because of contamination to ALL THEIR EQUIPMENT! The business was ORDERED to DESTROY "ALL of it's equipment"!
I do not know if this was a large business (processor) or a small mom& pop operation....but whoever, it had to be COSTLY to them to loose everything! I imagine the building and tables and grinders and saws and freezers, etc. were all destroyed....To Be On The Safe Side!
Is "IT" a threat to humans? Is it passable from dead animal to a live one?....I don't know!
A few years ago my wife Judy got a book called "Deadly Feast"!.....she said it was SCARRY to say the least.....it may be a Good Read for those interested.
Zim, I too could not see how they could keep my buck. Not when it tested negative to CWD, in addition everything I did in hunting and harvesting this buck was legal. Like you said, my buck is my personal property.... much like my truck. A state gov't just can't take personal property from an individual without them having done something illegal. The NY DEC could not keep my truck if I loaned it to my taxidermist unknowing that he was going to (for example) used it to go poach deer. I would get my truck back, seeing I did noting wrong....... I would think my buck head would be the same.
At this point the NY DEC still has my buck and I'm waiting on a call from my taxidermist as to how and when he or I will be getting it back. But with Christmas and everyone being off of work, this may take several days. I believe he is going to deal with the main man in District 9 of the NY DEC in getting the heads back........ this time of the year is hard to get anything pertaining to gov't work done.
Different states have different laws... it crazy. My taxidermist asked the NY DEC about the carbou heads he got in from Canada. He wanted to know if they were legal or illegal if the skull is intact. The NY DEC could not answer him. He has stopped taking them until he finds out(and it's in writing). Some states allow the skull to be intact on deer coming from a CWD state, but they must be taken in counties that do not have CWD, otherwise the deer from counties with CWD the skull must be capped out. Again, a person can not take for granted how any of the laws read when it comes to transporting deer parts across state lines.
I'd like to see the State of Illinois put out some more information on CWD laws to all NR hunters and push the fact the NR hunters should also know the laws in their state as well.
OLDMAN---Bill, Just to clarify, if you traveled through IL with your buck on the way back to PA, you broke the law. Most states have this law in affect. It not only matters where your destination is, but also the laws in every state that you will be traveling through. It is pretty much impossible to transport a deer anywhere at this point. Every hunter should just plan on caping out their deer if they are hunting out of state. It's not that hard, I got to be rather quick at it when I was guiding.
Does the antlers have to be removed? I always debone my meat while in ILL and usually cape it up to the base of the skull. Does the law state that i have to remove the antlers and cape it off the skull too?
You need to cut off the skull plate and remove all of the brains. The only thing you should travel with is boned out meat, the cape, and the cut off antlers/skull plate.
Thanks FD....Now i gotta figure out to cape it off the base of the rack and skull without screwing up a cape. Is this only b/c of CWD and if so does it only apply to CWD counties?
For most states, it applies to any deer from any other state. It is pretty simple. Just google caping out a deer and you will probably find instructions. Just take your time and you will be fine. The tricky part are the tear ducts, but once you do one, it is pretty easy. Most taxidermist will do it for $50 bucks if you aren't confident enough. As farmer's story proves, it is better to be safe than sorry. I would not take any chances.
I've been hunting in IA the past week. I'm an hour from my home, but if I kill a deer I will still have to cape it out and bone out the meat over there before I transport it back home.
you guys from down south should see the procession of entact dead deer coming into IL from WI in the back of trucks, on roofs of cars, etc. every fall.
Is it WI responsibility to enforce their entact deer leaving the state or IL responsibility to enforce their deer not entering ours? They should concentrate enforcement efforts on I-90 and I-94 southbound from WI around thanksgiving.
That's what they get for making laws about something that they do not understand. They should be spending the $$$ on more scientific testing, not chasing down three deer in NY or man hours conducting night sharpshooting like they do up here in the northern counties. Just wait until the southern counties have a deer pop positive for CWD, with the size of the herds down there the DNR will be out in full force mowing down your herds at night in Feb., and March over bait piles, just like us northern counties. Just wait, it will happen.
I hope you get your deer back Farmer.
... and just think. These so-called "deer farmers" can bring live, breathing deer (for which there is no reliable CWD test) right in with no problem. Like they're supposed to be less risky for spreading CWD than bringing in dead deer or feeding our resident wild deer. What a bunch of crap!
Thanks for the info FD, good luck on your IA hunt & send me some pics afterwards.
FULLDRAW,I know now you were correct,I didn't think of the "STATE LINE" crossing in the truck.Guess I was lucky,I thought I did the correct thing by calling my taxiderminst and him contacting the Game Commission. If I get a tag in 2009,and harvest another"large buck" I will do the full cape job as required. Thanks FULLDRAW!!!
Reading the regulations it states (on page 8) that you can bring in a deer into Illinois whole as long as you take it to a meat processor, and or taxidermist (both licensed) within 72 hours.
I have no proof of it but "part" of the hype programed into CWD is for the sake of PC. Activists were squawking all over the place about dead animals being transported in open view before CWD plagued the world.
Along time ago hunters used to transport the horns of an animal...or the whole thing atop trucks and campers to show off their egos in transit (a little). Drew a pretty good crown when you stopped for gas and take a leak.
Oooops, sorry, lost trac of my "PC" there for a second 8^(
Good post Farmer--=glad it all worked out OK finally. Thanks to Mr. Price for being so much help too. With all the different state laws it is a good reminder to all of us.
Farmer you you seem to have all the Luck ,Good and Bad,I am sure you will get your head back but like you say all will take time .Most states have CWD laws in place,and for all NR hunters you have to allow an extra day now for getting the deer caped and deboned,and many commercial places cant do it in a day,so bring your own knives and gambrel, so you really loose a day of hunting not being able to transport deer whole,I have not been on a hunt out of state yet where when we where coming home that we didnt get stopped somewhere by some Law enforcement wanting to now what we had harvested and where was the meat.though i have heard of many guys transporting deer back to the northeast whole many of whom somehow unbelievable where ignorant of the CWD laws.Well I am sure it will work out for you in the end Farmer and hope you and yours have a Merry Christmas.