Hadley Creek owner/guide fined
Illinois
This may be old news, but I just heard of it today. I wish I could say that I was surprised to hear it, but nothing in the whitetail industry really surprises me anymore. This guy should have his license pulled, and never be able to hunt, or guide in Illinois again.
http://www.sj-r.com/News/stories/24657.asp
So did Hadley Creek get busted too?
Here is the link and the article.
what is the limit on the crap this outlaw outfit will do? why would anybody go there for a hunt? when you think about what it takes to actually catch a poaching ring, it makes you wonder what these outlaws have done and not got caught for! i noticed that the photo gallery has alot of the same deer with different angles. if they are dishonest about something as simple as that i would not trust them!
They have had alot more than one guide busted for poaching, I know of at least 3 that has guided for them that has been busted:)
baldy- Does this also make you wonder what we don't know? 8^)
I hadn't heard a peep about any of this.
I wonder how many sobs do this same thing and don't get caught? The outfitter and guide should NEVER be able to hunt in Illinois. The shark got off easy with $7,500 fine.
$7,500 attorney dollars is a whole lot less than $7,500 average worker guy dollars! Take the hunting privledges for life!
Me thinks we didn't hear anything about this because it was on the federal/multistate level and these officers are working big time undercover trying to really bust up big outfitts that are running multiple illegal activities. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak and would not be surprised to see multiple members of this group face similar consequences. I have some firsthand knowledge of this group and it is loosely organized like a modern day La Costa Nostra mob family. Top Boss with capos on multiple levels answering to him. Only problem is none are very smart and loyalty isn't on same level with the real deal. Once Feds start putting on the heat rats will be everywhere. Time will tell and we will wait and see, I'm gonna gonna go pop some more corn and put another log on my fire, this is almost as good as the sopranos.
I think OUTLAW OUTFITTERS would be a better name for Hadley Creek..........
"I have some firsthand knowledge of this group and it is loosely organized like a modern day La Costa Nostra mob family"
If these guys are persistantly sending clients with illegal deer across state lines, then they should be prosecuted under the RICO statute (as in conspiracy to violate federal law). RICO was originally intended for mob bosses but it has been sucessfully been used in many creative contexts since it was signed.
It is a law with REAL TEETH and it would send a strong message to violators that promote a lack of respect for state lines.
Too many lawyers in this world lack imagination.
Reminding the offender “hunting is a privilege”.....
Let's see if we can get Herm stirred up over that comment. :)
Yes natty RICO could very well apply here and the best part is this bunch are so inter-galactically stupid they think RICO is some guy selling tacos on broadway in Quincy
“I am very sorry and remorseful for my actions,” he said. “It is the biggest mistake I ever made.”.......or at least the biggest I got caught with....$7500 does sound small when the penalty carries a max of $100,000 and jail time.
LOL
I suspect that if the FBI started knocking on doors that they would build a case in 48 hours or so.
To all the people that have a 2008 whitetail hunt booked with this outfitter just think about what else is going on and when you sitting in a tree stand where do you think your guide is.
whitetail properties....their show can be seen on Sportssouth
"SJ"....I saw that... ((*;
SJ,
He was going to respond, but he had to go vote for Hillary before the polls closed. :)
Hey guys I'm not from Ill. but I hunt in your great state every fall and I just wanted to let you know my experience with a Hadley Creek "guide". I ran into a guy at Gamemasters in Quincy in Nov. of 2005 that had Florida plates on his truck and about a 150" 10 pointer in the back. He told me he was a guide for Hadley Creek and he had killed that buck that afternoon. Then he went about trying to recruit me to come hunt with them the next year. Two red flags went up with me, one was that he was from Fla. and was guiding hunters in Ill. and two was that he had killed the buck and not a paying client. Not very good sale tactics, no thanks on Hadley Creek.
Double D You are a smart man, the guides can can go hunting when they drop you off in the morning and they are hunting the same farms that you are.
I agree with Cadien1215. It would be difficult for me to imagine that any outfit of this size would not be drawing the attention of Wildlife Agencies. I'll save my comments about the future until it all shakes out and I don't want to get DNR all riled up with me again about talking about a case in progress, e.g. "Double X Outfitters". I know a little about the background on this but not as much as Cadien. I know all I need to know 8^)
JRW....ya, right............ )*;
But....I guess I'd rather see her running than 'him' B.O. (wow, I like that..."BO")
Also, we need a REPUBLICAN in to get things RIGHT!!
I wonder how sorry this D head would have been if he didn,t get caught?
He actually teaches law. :)
whitetail properties....staff!
What a bunch of crooks! I wish there was an easy way to publicize something like this nationwide. I wonder if NAW magazine would take it, or are they too likely to hide stuff like this themselves to protect their segment of the whitetail trophy hunting "business"?
BREW
Maybe Les Davenport or someone would like to write an expose article. He was quite bold about his thoughts on Illinois' deer management in a recent article I read.
I'm not condoning any illegal activity. Nor am I a big supporter of outfitters, but the title of this thread is misleading. it says "owner/guide fined" which is not accurate. The individual who was fined is not the owner.
Cadien1215 I think that your relation worked at Hadley Creek. You should ask him how things are ran if your that concerned.
Yea, I know, i just typed in the web page. For some reason just couldn't get it to support. :)
One Thursday morning a couple of years ago, a guy with the Department of Interior, Wildlife and Fishers Division (from Indiana) came to my house (in Alabama) and wanted to talk with me about in investigation into a Pike Co. outfitter and a Illinois hunter from Atlanta. He was told that I had hunted with the outfitter and was not happy with the hunt and thought I could provide him with information on possible illegal activity.
I didn’t hunt or know the outfitter (or any other outfitter for that matter), but I did know the Atlanta hunter. He (the Atlanta hunter) had, in the past, hunted with some guys I hunted with near Nebo. I met him briefly twice and didn’t care for his trash mouth, but didn’t know anything about his hunting ethics, but the guys I had hunted with knew he was trouble and was distancing themselves from him.
The investigator had three Illinois mounts, in his SUV, he had confiscated. We had a very good discussion, but I really didn’t have any information he could use. I wish I could have helped catch these guys.
Bottom line is I heard that the Atlanta hunter was fined ~$100k and banned from hunting Illinois for life (I also think he was banned from Montana and possibly another state).
It sounds like this guy had multiple violations. Looks like he would have also been banned from hunting Illinios. (probably a lawyer thang)
Wonder what the Drury Boys think about this big mess. That guy should never be able to hunt in our state for life! That just shows you how things are run at "world famous Hadley Creek".
kd...."W" did good...till the Illegal Allien thing! He had a mess trying to fix what Bill C. left the Governemnt in when he left....it's such a mess it will take a few more years to fix all of that!
The problems we have been facing is all do to B.Clintons regime!....he and his wife are tyrants and crooked!
NAW Magazine?...they can't fix NOTHING! (jmho) I can't say no more on that!
You Play---You Pay (when caught)! They always say; "give a person enough rope...and they will hang themselves"!
Scarne...what`s innacurate, or mis-leading about the title? Allen Blevins OWNS Hadley Creek Outfitters, and is the President of Whitetail Properties. IMO he should absolutely be banned from having a license, of any type be it occupational or recreational, in IL or TN.
My bad...he`s a co-owner.
Seems like I just watched a Drury video(one of their newer ones, "Spot-on" maybe ??) with some body hunting there for that production team. Hmmmmmmm.....Jeff
I would like to know how he got back to TN? Kentucky does not allow whole deer to come into there state due to CWD.I don't understand how come I see all these dead deer in trucks comming back thru Kentucky from IL.The way I understand the law is that every one of these deer should be taken away from the hunters by the Game Wardens.
"Im not condoning any illegal activity. Nor am I a big supporter of outfitters, but the title of this thread is misleading. it says "owner/guide fined" which is not accurate. The individual who was fined is not the owner."
"Believer is correct. The title to the thread is not accurate and that is misleading."
Both assertions would be incorrect. The violator is an owner and a guide and does legal work for Whitetail Properties. There are many owners.
To all the people going to Hadley creek in 2008 might won't to think twice abought going there, there are plenty of other outfitters in Illinois that are honest and do things legal.
My experience with this outfitter went very well. I knew that some of the guides hunted while I hunted but it didnt bother me too much. Saw alot of nice deer and shot a nice deer to boot. I would hope that the Wards didnt have knowledge of the happenings going on. Doesnt surprise me to hear of this. Imagine what you dont hear about. Probably happens more than we would like to know. This guy has ruined his law career over a whitetail. What a dummy.
I get the impression that most of you guys have never hunted with an outfitter and feel angst towards anyone who can afford to.
Hadley Creek is a good outfitter ....not everyone kills a deer but it would be killing not hunting if they did. I own land in IL and have hunted with a number of different outfitters. Stacy Ward's operation is top notch and is run better than 90% of the others.
As far as Allen Blevin's goes, he made a mistake four years ago and shot a third buck in IL...he can legally take two as a land owner. Is it right ? no, not at all ...but does he deserve to be crucified ?
With Ward's past track record of poaching and now this lawyer who is also part owner in Hadley Creek Outfitters with muliple poaching violations..... does anyone else see a pattern of illegal actives within this outfitting group? As for those hunters sticking up for this bunch.....looks like some hunters would sleep with anyone in order to have a chance at a big buck!!!
Farmer you said it all right there.
Widowmaker, it's speaking very lowly of 90% of the outfitters if you'll place above them an outfit with this kind of crap going. I would hope that the opposite is true, i.e. 90% of the outfitters are better than a large, high profile, corrupt operation like this.
widowmaker...you would be surprised of all the things that go on in Illinois and who is being watched and who has been caught and who has had past and present problems....I think....non-res can ONLY take 1 buck with a "bow"! Regardless of if they are a landowner or not! 1 buck bow....1 buck firearm...IF they have the proper tags!
crusified?...YES!...they are not above the law!
FARMER & BREW are 'dead on' in their comments!
Widowmaker,
He did not even legally tag one of at least four he was involved with!
Crucified? No, guess not; unless you insist.
I do fell that a full state investigation and prosecution should be made by the State of Illinois, so that at the very least his "privilege to hunt" is withdrawn to the same extent that would apply to me.
Widowmaker, as a Ten. Resident how due you feel about the fraudulent tagging of deer in your state?
It was just a few years back that "guides" for Hadley Creek were caught baiting deer with corn. The CPO caught them with the shovel they used to dig the hole and the wheelbarrow they hauled the corn in. If I recall correctly they also got someone hunting over the spot.
This from the Pike Press. Notice how they go to extremes to whitewash the whole thing.
Local businesses say crime predates defendants employment By:Anna Lee Welty February 07, 2008 Allen W. Blevins, of Knoxville, Tenn., entered a guilty plea in federal court Monday, Feb. 4 for illegally killing and transporting white-tailed deer, a misdemeanor violation of the Lacey Act, a federal wildlife law. Blevins was a previous employee of Hadley Creek Outfitters in Pike County. A press release issued by the Midwest Region External Affairs Office stated that Blevins was listed as the president of Whitetail Investment Properties, another Pike County firm. Blevins is also a founding partner of Whitetail Properties TV in Pittsfield. Two of the local businesses stated that they had no association with Blevins at the time of the incident. U.S. Magistrate Judge Byron Cudmore accepted Blevins' plea. As part of the plea agreement, Blevins received a $7500 fine that will be paid to the U.S. Clerk's office for the benefit of the Fish and Wildlife Service. Blevins must also forfeit the three antlered mounts. Blevins was not sentenced to imprisonment or probation. Blevins admitted to killing a 10-point white tail deer with a bow in October 2004 on property owned/leased by Hadley Creek Outfitters in Pike County. After killing the deer, Blevins did not tag the deer with a valid 2004 temporary deer harvest tag as was required by Illinois law. Blevins then transported the untagged buck from Illinois to Tennessee where he falsely registered the deer as being killed in Putnam County, Tenn. Blevins would go on to kill two more antlered deer, an 8-point and 10-point, in November 2004. All three deer were displayed in the 2004 Hadley Creek Outfitters photo gallery for promotional purposes. The mounts were also displayed in public for other promotional reasons on Blevins' behalf. Stacy Ward with Hadley Creek Outfitters stated that the incident happened in 2004 prior to Blevins' involvement with Hadley Creek Outfitters. Ward also commented, "Hadley Creek Outfitters had no knowledge or involvement with Mr. Blevins' activities." Dan Perez with Whitetail Properties TV stated that Whitetail Properties TV has no connection to Whitetail Investment Properties. He said, "This incident occurred in 2004, prior to Blevins' involvement with Whitetail Properties TV. We have not been able to fully discuss this incident with Mr. Blevins and do not have knowledge of what actually took place at this time." Whitetail Investment Properties, located in Barry, could not be contacted for comment, as their listed phone number had been disconnected. Blevins' guilty plea is the result of an investigation into illegal hunting conducted by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the Illinois Department of Natural Resources and the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency. U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Special Agent Tim Santel said, "The willingness of the U.S. Attorney's Office to prosecute cases such as this one helps us protect our nation's natural resources. If all self-professed hunters acted with blatant disregard for wildlife laws as Blevins did, there would be no trophy animals left to hunt."
Spin control doctors and Damaged reputation technicians are comming out of the frigging woodwork amazing just amazing.
I've heard many stories about this. I don't know what blevin's affiliation with Hadley Creek is nor do i know what his affiliation with WTP is. Some stories say that he is an owner of Hadley Creek, but after researching, I found that he is not the owner of Hadley Creek. And as for WTP, I've heard many stories there too. Some say that he was associated with Whitetail Properties but when they found out, they made him resign. I don't know if it's true or not, but from the research i did, including on the WTP website, i found no mention of Allen Blevins being affiliated with WTP. And in another thread I also heard Drury's name get drug under the buss as well. Now don't get me wrong, i'd prefer to string up as many poachers as possible, but why throw some of these other companies under the bus as well, considering that you can't find anything that shows him as being associated with wtp and drury's.
I think that people are jumping the gun on here.. do you know all the facts here.. and if you do where r u getting all of your information... The guy plead guility, yes he admitted he did it, now he will have to pay a fine... Its not up to us to decide his punishiment, that would be the courts. I have a question for all of u that think that he should never be able to hunt again, if your caught speeding should you loose your lience to drive? and if u agree with that the next time that ur pulled over for speeding be sure to hand the police officier your lience and ask him to call u a toe truck so u can get your vehicle home, so u can set an example of what u just said or agreeded with.. also if someone in ur family is a crack dealer does that make everyone a crack dealer? or maybee a drunk, do u know that everyone in that outfit is a pocher? if u do i would love to see the proof and have them charged if they r.. you people on here r too fast to pass judgement on some one that u have never meet, maybee u should evaualet ur life before u pass judgement on some one elese..
I know alot of the guys at Hadley, they're good guys. I also know the accused. I read where someone had posted that Allen owns Hadley, HE DOES NOT !!! I'm not taking up for him, he messed up and should pay for it.If someone would investigate all outfitters in IL, there would be alot of violations found, some small, some large. Any time you deal with alot of hunters, there's always going to be a few that try to pull some kind of crap.What else can I say?
Well old boy, How can Stacey press charges on something that happened in 04? The pics were put on the site in 04. It's not like the pics were put on last week. I'll bet my left nut that Stacey had know knowledge of what happened till all of this came out. I'll also make the bet that the pics will be off the web site ASAP. It's not like anybody at Hadley knew anything about this until charges were pressed against Blevins. You need to do some research and see what has happened since.You'll be surprised.
Old Boy: Answer my questions on my previous post
The quote from Ward says there was no knowledge or involvement with Mr. Blevins activities.
i just checked out the hadley creek website to look for the pictures. . . there were nearly 160 photos from 2004. I was just expecting to see a dozen photos, but 3 more really don't make it any better. lots of the photos had two people in them. . . i guess one person may be the guide. I don't know. anyway, all that to say that ward might not have really known what was going on. . . that's pretty sad to say. he definately needs to keep a closer eye on things but that would be pretty difficult considering the size of the operation.
as for the second question. . . .
I don't know that there are charges to press on someone committing illegal acts while employed by you. What is he going to bring him up for? ? ? the only things i can think of are civil. and then he would have to expend more money than he would look to get back.
Do you think Stacey has the power that the FEDS do? Don't be stupid! Do you think that he would put pics of a poached deer on his site,knowingly? I know he wouldn't. If he had known then, he would have had legal action taken against him.
IT is 08, this happened in 04. How can you press trespassing charges on someone from 4 years ago. It kind of like being someones fiend and having them over for dinner, 4 years later you don't like this person anymore, so you go and press trespassing charges on them for being at your house 4 years ago !!! There's a time limit on things like this guys.
My question remains. How can you press charges on someone for stuff(i.e. trespassing) that happened 4 years ago. There are time limits to these things. Murder is the only thing that has no statute of limitation on time in which charges can be pressed.I really don't think you can press trespassing charges after 30 days.Am I correct?
how is it tresspassing if he has access to the property???? and what are the many other charges?
Alright boys, when stacey said he had no knowledge of it, I'm pretty sure he was talking about illegal activity. I'm pretty sure he knew Allen was hunting, maybe he was a paid hunter at the time. That would erase the issue of trespassing,RIGHT? Do you think that Allen would be stupid enough to walk up to stacey and tell him he just poached a deer? I don't think stacey meant he had no knowledge of Blevins, but rather illegal activity.
ACTIVITIES..........never said he didn't know him!!!!!
Aren't outfitters required to keep a record of ALL harvests taken on their controlled property? How can someone hunting on outfitted property kill three bucks in one season and the outfitter not know about it? Did he continue to hunt after shooting all 3? How did he have a valid permit left to be hunting with the outfitter after shooting the first 2? How could the outfitter let a deer be killed without checking it in?
Bill Clinton issued them a special use permit and said if anyone hasseled them about anything to tell them he said it was ok
Well wadda ya know? Yesterday Allen Blevins and Stacy Ward were pictured on this page as part of the group of founding partners. Today they are no where to be found. I, for one, hope this is just the beginning or their downward spiral.
LOL!!! 8^)
KC makes a very good point. The "Outfitter's Log" must be kept and ready for inspection for 5 years, so the alleged incident would fall within the required time frame for record keeping. I kept harvest records on all clients and affiliates, but I don't recall if it is required that the outfitter keep records on guide kills or not. I am not even sure if the owner is required to keep records on his own kills. In any event, law enforcement could inspect the outfitter log for any reason they like for the 2004 season. Not being familiar with the case, I have no idea if that played a role in the arrest or not.
As far as websites and advertising goes, there is no Federal "Statute Of Limitations" on the crime of fraud. I am making no comment or case as to the alleged incident at hand or whether there was any wrongful intent and/or behavior. However, the outfitter is bound to a requirement he agrees to before receiving an outfitter's license as to the terms of his promotional schemes. Violating said agreement could cause him to forfeit his license.
It's pretty easy when the outfitter does not know. When you were a kid did you ever sneak a cookie out of the cookie jar? Where there's a will, there's a way.
stickflicker- I don't know if your are responding to me or not...but I have NO idea what you are talking about. I just said I am stating facts and making NO claims against anyone. I am not even offering an opinion although I have one. Slow down and read before commenting. No one ever went to prison for stealing from a "cookie jar"...unless there was something in it besides cookies.
Old Boy- IDNR had plenty of time to think out ruling 640 and the outfitter license requirements are clearly covered. The agency and Attorney General were getting a lot of calls from unhappy hunters who claimed "misrepresentation" of outfitters businesses and put writing into law that would end most of that. There are also legal words defining an "accessory" pointing out that if a client breaks the law, the outfitter "can" be found guilty as well. Depends whether the outfitter covered the law with his client or not and perhaps the mood of the CPO on hand.
The Outfitter Log can serve as a possible paper-trail in conservation violations.
Maybe something was mixed up.Have you ever known a newspaper or tv news broadcast to spread misleading info? Maybe something was lost in translation, I don't know. Everybody always want to believe the worst, instead of hoping for the best. If stacey said he had no involvement or knowledge of these activities, why won't anyone just believe him and let it go. Stop beating a dead horse,let it go!!! The guilty person admitted to what he had done and was punished. Maybe the fines should have been stiffer, that's not for us to decide. I'll stand beside the guys at Hadley, if they say they had no knowledge of what happened I believe them. Please find someone else to whip on, give these guys a break!!
Ad Rule 640 did not go into effect until 2005. Speed, was any of the recordkeeping required before 640?
"Well wadda ya know? Yesterday Allen Blevins and Stacy Ward were pictured on this page as part of the group of founding partners. Today they are no where to be found......."
Got et by wolf-dogs after cougars caught 'em trying to put a doe tag on bigfoot"
Hey guys, I know one of the guys that works for Whitetail Properties personally and called him when I saw this thread and their name involved. I asked him what was going on and he said Blevins WAS the president of the company but as soon as they found out what was going on with him, they forced him to resign his position. He said they would not be affiliated with ANYBODY that was involved in this kind of crap. He said they had NO prior knowledge of what was going on with him before the guilty plea came out.
Just wanted to clear up that side of things, he is NO LONGER associated with Whitetail properties at all.
I have no info on the Hadley Creek side of this ...
Good Shooting Mike
KC- I have my "Outfitter Log" right here in front of me and my license was for the 2003-04 season. That was the only license I ever purchased because I retired after this regulation went into effect. I sold out in 2004 in the 3rd quarter. I am assuming that the alleged case being discussed here would have been during the 2004-05 season which would have been the second license DNR issued in the outfitter ruling.
Perhaps ruling 640 and the outfitter log didn't happen at the same time, I really can't remember. I just had it in my head that ruling 640 included outfitter licensing.
i have a ??? for all of you people that r still bashing the outfitting company.. was he a part owner when he committed the crime.. u know one time i was charged with bootleggin or in english overpossesoin of alchol.. after i was charged i switched jobs, how was my new employer to know what i had been charged with.. being charged with something does not go on ur record until ur convicted.. and then and only then will it go on ur record... the only crime that the outfitter commited was that they hired A bad employree or had A bad partner... how was the person to know that the person that he had partnered up with was a crook... those r the people that i feel sorry for.. and before u all send the lench party after me i had 3 cases of beer in my truck and the legal limmit in a dry county is 1...
Forrest, Forrest is that you?
mamma said life is like a box of chocolates you never know what you gonna get
Fried shrimp, roasted shrimp, bbq shrimp, shrimp sandwich, shrimp soup,........
Maybe that's why they did'nt have their trophy heads with them at the Rosemont show? Yup I'm stirren'
When you're booked before the shows start, why would you need to go. Maybe that's why their never there.
Don't know jack about who owned what. Never heard of the guy in question until this thread. But less than an hour ago, I saw a T V show-Whitetail Properties, whatever, the one y'all are talking about. The guy in question was the first picture they showed.
And to answer a question some posts back, yes, if he went through KY, he broke that law, too. However, a lot of people don't know about that law. It isn't exactly posted on roadsigns.
No excuse of course. But them toikey boids is all over my back yard. Guess the tornadeys didn't get 'em all.
Was it a commercial or the actual tv show?
Tell the truth, I'm not sure. I didn't watch much of it. I think it was the show...of course, 80% commercial.
Me n bubba we was best friends ya know... So I did what any best friend would do... I gave bubbas share of the money to his momma. I
Just finished watching "Robin Hood prince of thieves" with kevin Costner. At the very beginning this 10 yr old kid gets caught poaching deer for his hungry family in the sheriff of Nottinghams forest. They were all set to execute him till Robin Hood saved his little arse. Wonder what the sheriff of Nottingham would have done with Alan Blevins. As a side note those Long Bows Robin and his boys shoot are awesome and deadly. Really has me fired up, I want one now. Kinda startin to get the jist of this traditional thingy. Does black widow make a long bow or just recurves?
Speed....don't bring up the bama gumps! :)
speed, looks like you're right...
Adopted at 26 Ill. Reg. 18019, effective February 1, 2003; amended at 29 Ill. Reg. 12483, effective July 28, 2005.
Went into effect for the 2003 season. So... I wonder why HC didn't have records of these harvests?????
It shall be unlawful for an outfitter to:
e) knowingly allow or cause a client to violate any provisions of the Wildlife Code or related administrative rules;
i) fail to maintain required records.
Scarne - I know I know but damn I been toyin with the idea of either a widow recurve or long bow for awhile now and watching that flick didn't help my wife's quest for new drapes in the living room, I really have the itch and it may be time to scratch. Are Black widows custom made to the individuals measurments do u know?
KC-"Went into effect for the 2003 season. So... I wonder why HC didn't have records of these harvests?????"
Well, I really don't have a clue. Appears to be some loose ends perhaps. Going back to an earlier post I made, I don't know if an outfitter is required to log kills produced by owners and guides or not....but I chose to err on the side of caution. CPOs kind'a rewrite these laws as they go. I even logged my own kills and it isn't like that takes a lot of time or anything. But that said, I was always a Conservation driven person and about all I killed then was does. Killing does and unloading fly-by-night outfitters was the primary purpose of 640 but I am not sure that it actually did either one...yet 8^)
"Black Widow" is a fine product, but I don't know about the customer service part. A BW take-down blew up in my hand last October and nearly put me out of service for the season. I didn't get any satisfaction from BW but it was a 1994 model so I just dropped the whole thing. I would have the warranty spelled out though... those bows cost $1,000 or more now days.
Thanks for the heads up on BW speed, I shall research some other brands as well before making any decisions.
cadien1215- Yep...take your time, and I wouldn't exclude BW from your shopping list, but I would have them spell out the warranty. I reckon I don't know what "Lifetime" means 8^)
Go to gmarchery.com, check out the Chek-Mate recurves. Made in north Mississippi. I've got a friend who use one and really likes it . I've shot it and several Widows and quite honestly, the chek shoots justs as good.Lot less $$ to.
Check-Mate's are made in Western Canada....I have a couple....They are a great bow!! They sell to dealers state side so that is why 'stickflicker' (I guess) thinks they are made in Mississippi....but they are made in Canada (B.C. or Alberta I think) by a man and his wife! Great Bows and The Right Price too!
Section 640.20 Minimum Standards
a) An outfitter shall:
10) maintain a current log of all individuals who hunt on the property controlled under the outfitter permit, including the dates they hunted, their hunting license and permit numbers, and harvest information (numbers, sex, approximate age), whether the hunter was a paying client or a free hunter. This log must be maintained by the outfitter for 5 years;
KC- That's what I thought it was but I had forgotten about the free hunter requirement. I see a possible question about the "property controlled under the outfitter permit." It could be possible that an outfitter could have property that is not registered as "controlled" property...I think. That argument may have been presented already.
They can't bust Hadley Creek for all the things they have done over the years.If they got them for all they have done they would all rot in jail. Including their investor named Allan Blevins.
I am amazed at the negativity around this issue that is pointed at this fellow that many of you don't know and will never know. While I think that blogs are a great open forum, they can also be unfounded public floggings and unsubstantiated rumor mills. I felt obligated to speak up about this thread because I know more about ALL of the circumstances surrounding this issue and after looking at it in more detail from hundreds of miles away (literally and metaphorically), I think this is all a bad joke that Allen has to live out now because of inconsistent enforcement and because of power trips and the old adage of "making examples" out of folks. Despite all of that he has reacted like a man and admitted it and has moved on.
I have known Allen Blevins for over 15 years. He is a great father, a great husband to his wife and is a great friend to those who are lucky enough to have him as a friend. Allen made a mistake and he admitted it like a man. He is not unethical. In fact he is more ethical now if you knew ALL of the facts and circumstances surrounding this 4 year issue...
I graduated law school with Allen, so I am obviously biased and felt obligated to tell you all that too, but I also felt that I needed to tell this story about him so you can put a face on all of this and understan who you are talking about. When another close friend and I looked around the law school on the day of graduation and we looked at all of the folks that we knew fairly well after 3 years, and we asked each other, "Who in this graduating class, would you trust to work with you...out of all of the people here... to help you with a tough legal, business or family issue? Who do you trust the most to do a good job for you or your family if you really, really needed it?" We both said, Allen and one other fellow.
Although he made a mistake, and the prosecutions on these issues as most of you know are always inconsistent, he admitted it and is moving on.
I hope this is the last blog that we have to read about this issue and I hope my information to this thread debunks the theory that he's just another bad guy or unethical lawyer because it's quite the opposite.
DC
"0" tollerance! No one is above 'the law' regardless!
Lawyers and Politicians break many laws everyday! Ethically and morally and 'by law'.....as do many other people in all occupations...no one is perfect and no one is above The Law!
But these 'law breakers' need weeded out and punished and publicly known for their deeds.
Unethical!....now there is a 'word'!
-}}}}}}}}--------------> (hunting is a RIGHT) ((*;
Until You Loose That RIGHT!
"Stalker".....my thoughts too EXACTLY!
turn 2- No disrespect intended toward you or Allen ....but I think it's interesting when a politician or a lawyer breaks the law, it's always a "mistake". You know, like all the Obama Cabinet and Senate losers have who have stepped down recently? But when us lowlife common folks break the law (somehow)the old standby double standard kicks in and "off to jail we go", do not pass go.
I know Allen and his dad and have always believed they were very nice folks and I personally have no reason to change that opinion at all...but as far as the law is concerned, the law is the law and some feel that Allen got treated pretty well...all things considered.
I heard from some locals that there was a major sting operation last fall at Performance Outdoors Outfitters. They said an DNR undercover agent had been employed for 2 years at the oufitter and uncovered the violations which occurred in several counties. The outfitter was supposedly not charged as the violations were committed by guides. Does the outfitter lose his license in this case? Just wondering if anyone else has heard or read anything. I have seen nothing in the papers or on the news. For some reason it has been held pretty quiet if true.
just because he's a good lawyer, father, husband etc., and YOU would trust him with your legal work doesn't mean he ain't a poacher!
I also agree with Stalker. Also I 've employees and am held responsible for their actions both good and bad That's what RESPONSIBLE EMPLOYERS DO turn2.
A very good attorney isn't someone I would want as a friend. A good attorney is someone who can express themselves forcefully, whether it be the truth or a lie. Don't believe me.... ask OJ.
turn2, this thread had been stagnant for a year, so instead of 2 turn the page instead
I am scratching my head as well as to why you would bring this up again a year later???? Blogs are a funny thing, they can help spread the word to others, regardless if it's a good word or bad.. Fact of the matter is this, he poached a deer and got caught, period! I also think that him having money and the knowledge of a lawyer is what kept him out of jail for his actions. I also feel that is wrong!!!!! Nobody should be above the law, they should pay the piper just like the common Joe would, let me explain that to you in another light...
Lets say that a guy with a bunch of money wants a big buck, he could just go on Ebay and buy one right. We have all seen this happen. The only problem is that it could cost him 20K and the macho hunter wouldn't be able to brag about how hard it was to kill the giant beast... Thus comes the poaching way and the way IMHO "You friend decided to take" Now the fine was less then what it would have cost him to do a canned hunt and gave him the ability to brag to all his buddies on the big buck he killed and IMHO, if he wasn't caught he would most likely still be bragging... He got off cheap if you ask me, $7500 and no jail time.. What do you thin would have happened to a regular Joe who couldn't afford a good layer. I feel that he would have spent time in jail, maybe a year. And even if that regular Joe was a burger flipper at Burger King, it would have cost him a lot more then what it cost your friend...
Since you brought this back up, can I ask if your buddy lost his hunting rights?
As far as your buddy being a good guy, here is my take on that... He is a stranger to all of us on this thread, well at least he is to me.. You are asking me to turn the other cheek because he is a good guy, even though he poached from me and all the other sportsman of IL.. Well Sir, what you ask is totally ridiculous. I never met him and probably never will, so all i know of him is the "Fact" that he is a poacher.. If your were to meet a person and knew he was a poacher, would you try and befriend said person?? You say he has moved on and that's great, you should have left this thread where it was, not a good call to bring it back to life...
I'm curious about the reference to Performance Outdoors. What were they doing or not doing that led to charges.
Bill
I was told that Performance Outdoors guides poached several huge deer and also some turkeys. A undercover officer was employed by them for 2 years which resulted in the charges. I have seen nothing howerover in the papers or the news.I stumbled across a CPO however and he said the charges were true.
This is the way I see it. I save my vacation every year save money every year so I can hunt a property next to hadley creek and 2004 was one of the years I didn't see a decent buck. so to me this blevins guy if it were up to me I'd put him behind bars for 5 or more years. what he done was the same as stealing. my cost to hunt Illinois for the 3 day shotgun is over $3000 when you figure lodging,lease liscense. So nice guy or not he is a thief. What is the difference in him taking a couple guns from somebody HE IS A UNRESPECTFUL THIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!
With regard to "Performance Outdoors", the guides would be the defendants and the outfitter would be an accessory. That is the way ruling 640 was written. Of course in a different example, the roles could be reversed.
Not an attorney, just my interpretation.
How do these guys keep their outfitter licenses. I my business, I am responsible for what my employees do. So are most others. You can't convince me that if there is widespread poaching by the guides, the owner doesn't know about it! Hell, probably encouraged it so the websitewould look better.
bill brown- Like I said the boss (the outfitter "POD" in this case) should be an accessory in this example the way I interpret the law. I could be wrong...not an attorney.
I am an attorney and after reading a lot of these comments I hope I don't have to meet some of you in the woods
Petedrummond----You should be so lucky to meet most of these guys in the woods!!! Great guys that know what they are doing with "common sense".
-pete- why wouldn't you want to meet some of us in the woods? MOST (not all) of those in the woods are good honest people. Most just know 'right from wrong' and Cut No Slack on those that are 'walking the line' or even 'stepping over that line'!
No Ones Perfect and yes we all have made some mistakes....but to 'sugar coat' them isn't right! "You Play----You Pay"....nothing more and nothing less!
Why would "A friend" bring this thread back up top after 1 year of sitting on the shelf?....something fishy there? I firmly believe in 'letting a sleeping dog lay'!....it's been a dead subject till then......
Interesting that an attorney "just happens" to post on the page for the first time and insult the good people here with a nonsensical response having nothing to do with the topic.
I suppose their just a necessary evil:>)
I didn't mean to insult good people, just the ones with the nasty attitudes. Read your own stuff. Some guy gets a ticket for poaching and somehow its a lawyers fault.
The guy who got the ticket for poaching was a lawyer. Guess that is why we blame him.
-pete-....yep this is about a Lawyer and what he got caught doing! It doesn't matter the profession...it just so happened to be his! No One is above the law....and no certain profession is free from doing wrong....in this case it was a 'lawyers fault'!
Now, if he'd been X-Army and a "Nam" vet I'd really be mad! (*;
If he'd been X-Marine..."WRITER" would of been really upset too!
So as "Bow Hunters" who live in Illinois we all are upset!
He could of been a mechanic or a baker or a burger flipper at McD's.....but a 'lawyer'? Even some 'politicians' and 'state employees' have been in trouble before for bending the wildlife rules/codes. No One/Group/Occupation is exempt from making mistakes. Not all get caught either!!
Yeah, but if you talk long enough about any problem nowadays, it usually comes down to being lawyers' fault. :-)
Congress is full of lawyers---enough said!!!
The Court Of Public Opinion can be pretty hard on people, and so can the one at the County Courthouse. But I guess it's anyone's opinion whether or not either one is tough enough.
Most hunters here are pretty good folks and obviously aren't staying away from public opinion because they have nothing to hide. Nothing like a good night's sleep.
