Mt.Man
Left over from the "South Hills" hunt? LOL
boy this is going on forever. just don't tell me it was an inflatable sheep.
Them some bad beer goggles there Inrut22....:~)
Lance manufactures the inflatable muley decoy that he will sell you for less than 30.00, it does work pretty amazing :)
Tad,
You will have to ask him if he manufactures other inflatables, I'm not a plastic kind of a guy!
I glued a stick to the back of it; and when I am stalking; I can hold it up when the deer see me. It calms them down- and sometimes they walk over to take a closer look.
I am on a does only hunt; and can't keep the bucks out of my way of does :) I almost shot a buck yesterday; thought it was a nice doe; but just when I was going to let go and arrow; it looked back and it had an antler that was dropped down to the bottom of its jaw on its right side. NO antler on the left! I have seen several one antlered bucks; both whitetail and mulie...must be some serious fighting going on out there.
Funny how you guys are putting the sneak on bucks; and they are getting in my way of does up here !
I have only seen one tall rack; it was inside the ears; but really tall. Most bucks I am seeing are 3x4s and small ones at that... but plenty of them.
Pick a spot :)
Now for December :)
Is there still a controlled hunt in the foothills?
Mr. Wapiti, thanks for owning up to that dinky buck you shot. Why would you shoot such a stanky old buck? Seriously, you should have left him there and called me. Then he would have lived another year guaranteed!
Is this typical for these areas at this time of year? Its only 6000 feet and snow on the North side of the hills.
ES
No, not at all.
One i found i thought was cool he is a little 8x8 i would guess he is 5" high and nontypical you have to look close to see the horns and he is still in velvet.
here is a question. i am seeing more people than usuall so do you think that with reduced numbers of rifle kills more guys are out hunting with a bow this year?
I'm going to start following you, you must be a deer magnet! ha!
I'm heading back out tomorrow with my old man. Are the deer hanging out in the snow much? or are they just dropping below the snowline?
Where do you consider mid-way up the Middle Fork?
Just curious. My extended family always camps/hunts the area betwee Breadwinner Creek and Roaring River. You anywhere between those two?
The Old Sarge
BTW, half-way should be somewhere around Repeat Creek, shouldn't it?
my parents are in town for Thanksgiving, so i took my dad hunting with me yesterday to get some help pushing the brush. We hike up the huge hill, across the long ridge, glassed ton and tons of awesome area and didnt see a thing, ran into another hunter who like us had not see many deer. As we were starting to tuck or tail and head back down the hill to the truck, we decided to each descend on parallel ridges, just as my dad got 100yrds down the ridge, i notice a deer watching him from the ridge top that i was heading down. buzzed dad on the radio and got him to walk in circle as a decoy while i snuck around behind. once i got 80yrds behind her dad whistled and just like magic it worked, she turned and walked straight up the path i was crouched on offering no shot as she saw me at 18yds and bolted.
I stood and watched her run thinking it was over, but noises heading my way caused me to hit the deck again as i saw 8 more deer heading my way. crouched out in the open like a retard again i hunched over and got as low as i could. a doe spotted me at 15yrds and bolted i stood up and drew as they all started running and gave that "pathetic sounding deer grunt" that you see the hunters on TV do, and magically they all stopped broadside to me, i quickly picked the biggest deer, suddenly noticing the antlers, my heart began to race, but looking through my peep sight and pins, is a really bad time to judge yardage. I picked 60yrds and the buck laughed as they bolted from 70yrds as my arrow quickly vanished into the brush at his knee level. Left to right was perfect, elevation not even close, shot looked even worse because I aimed low to compensate for the down hill shot.
Now as i stood watching 8 deer flying away, i was smiling and screaming inside. So happy to finally get into a hunting situation but disappointed in my shot placement. I stood there incoherently as i replayed the shot over and over in my mind. Only to be brought back to reality as a voice came over the walkie talkie " you've got 2 more coming". i crouched and move just behind a 2ft tall bush. i saw the deer coming toward me from about 60yrds out, the split and the doe headed below me, spotted me and busted back to the other deer who was heading almost straight toward me, thats when i noticed the 4x4 rack he was sporting. i havnt learned how to judge a mule deers rack yet but his spread was just out side his outstretched ears. He had me pinned staring me down at 25yrds for about 3 mins while my undrawn bow was shaking like a rag doll. Finally he decided he didnt like me but he wasnt spooked and turn and quartered away looking for his doe, as he turned his head i drew, sending both of them bolting above and across me, i gave that pathetic buck grunt again and he stopped perfectly broadside up hill from me. I quickly guessed 40yrds, placed the pin right behind his shoulder and released. My frustration exploded as i watched my air zip just over his back. I watched in awe as the big buck (to me) bounded away.
I learned a lot yesterday. A awesomely painful, memory haunting experience, that will not be forgotten. My first year hunting high country mule deer was awesome! Thank you mule deer veterans for the advice and help offered! Appreciated greatly.
Two things learned this year. First, need to learn a deers body size and different yardages, never drawn my bow at a deer before. Second, need to practice that steep open country yardage judging. Hopefully next year I will have stories of glory!
Christmas List: 1. Deer 3D target 2. Rangefinder
Hope you guys enjoyed the long winded, no deer on the ground story.
2 more days :) go try again
I've heard this before, too, but have never seen any code section or regulation on point.
If anyone else has evidence of this "no radios" rule, it would serve us all well to educate us - not that any of us would ever do such a thing, except, apparently, IdahoElkFever :)
so ethically, i am going to drop the walkie-talkie talk when we get into deer and play it by the ethical book.
but if you ask me, where i hunt you need every advantage you can get! Super jumpy deer, never seem to bed down, hunters all over the place. but honestly we could have pulled the hunt off without the walkie talkies, they really made no differnce in the hunt, plus they dont help me guess yardage!!! :)
i personally do not view any of those items as unethical, because none of them actually help you cheat when it comes time to put the sharp pointy stick into the animal, they may help you get closer, but they obviously don't help when your at full draw. At a 14% success rate it doesn't appear we have the upper hand on the animals. Even with all of our electronics.
my radio sure didn't help me as I sailed my arrow just over that bucks back.
so apparently all of the walkie talkies, rangefinders, and atv's didn't make it that much easier :)
The Old Sarge
It certainly makes it easier, which attracts people to the sport. But if there isn't any deer to shoot because lack of weather, it doesn't do much good.
I know of 4 bucks killed.
on the average day out i saw 150 deer, the average guy would be happy with most any deer. a few guys look for the big ones and i saw at least one that was a good buck(over p&y minimum) every day. the deer were there just took a little to find them.
lots of deer to shoot. people looking in wrong places. so with all the gadgets if you don't have the ability to find deer then they do no good.
so the magic number is now to 14 this actually will be interesting to see the harvest data of this next year. unfortunatly i don't think that they break this down to this hunt specifically.
I have not doubt the deer and elk are still around ... somewhere. They just aren't/weren't where we've found them for more than 50 years.
By the way, yes I did mention weather in my previous post.
It is the weather that plays more on the harvest rates than the atv's or the rangfinders or radios. the deeper the snow the more concentrated the deer the easier they are to hunt.
my point is that these really don't make the hunt easier to any extreme. Atv gets you there a little faster than a truck, rnagefinder, you have to be close to make that work for you, and the radios are only effective if you can get someone close, and they still have to close the deal.
OS in 50 years you never had a year that it didn't snow?
Make everyone hunt with a spear and see what happens to the participation rate. My point exactly.
Later.
Lots of those years it didn't snow. This year it DID, and it didn't help at all. But what's that got to do with the discussion? Snow or no snow, whatever year you want to single out from my 50, this was by far the worst of the lot when it came to numbers of deer and elk spotted and killed by our entire hunting party ... which, BTW, totals more than 20 licensed hunters and another 8 along for the fun.
And, no, we do not all hunt together or even all at the same time. We hunt in small groups from as low as Breadwinner Creek to as high as Granite Creek/Granit Mt ans sometimes Swanholm.
Most everybody comes and goes as their time allows. We set up camp a few days before deer season opens and we leave right after elk season closes.
You still haven't offered even a hint as to the general vacinity of where you saw so many deer per day.
The Old Sarge
Congrats on your deer, that is an exceptional buck! I noticed on this thread that some people want to know the "general location" you were in. Please don't tell them. I appreciate all of the homework, time and money you spent finding that area, you deserve to hunt it by yourself until someone else does their homework and finds it on their own like you did.
But when literally hundreds of hunters have combed GMU 39 from early Oct to the end of Nov and have seen very, very few animals ... then along comes someone that claims to have seen 150 per day???
Would a general vacinity location really be giving too much away? Be serious.
I am sure no one will be there.
Where do you consider mid-way up the Middle Fork?
BTW, half-way should be somewhere around Repeat Creek, shouldn't it?
By all means, Mr. Wapiti ... don't offer any hints as to general location where you saw 150 deer per day ... on average.
You still haven't offered even a hint as to the general vacinity of where you saw so many deer per day
... then along comes someone that claims to have seen 150 per day???
I have known Mr. Wapiti for a long time and if he said he seen 150 deer a day, that is what he seen. He is not the only hunter who seen that many deer per day. If he was to mention the vacinity, general location, mid-way point or creek name, you asked for do you think he would have company next time? I do. How how many deer did you see per day in the late season archery hunt? I did not say you were going to give up your camp for your hunt (archery?) But, When I see those comments It looks to me like you are looking for somebody elses spot.
I haven't posted on here in a while but do lurk...
For those that don't know Tadd, he would make a horrible mountain man. He doesn't spin yarn very well...If you don't know what that statement means, do a search...
I hunt a long way away from Tadd and was seeing over 100 deer a day. I did not harvest on the late hunt as my tag was already punched, but did take 2 different guys out which gave them about 6 different shot opportunities. There was more traffic than I have seen along the roads than in past years, but found that hiking back in a ways broke me away from the crowds.
In about every GOOD late season spot that I know of, ATV's would not do you any good. If I am having a hard time standing on my feet without tipping over, aint no way in heck I will try to drive my ATV there.
As far as radios, I don't see where there would be any advantage getting into bow range with a bunch of jibber jabber going on...
I believe that there were more people staying close to home as gas prices were still high when the season started.
It might be wise to rethink comments about advantages also. Especially if there is no proof. Its comments like that which will lead to us losing even more! Thanks for the help....
Just like the snows concentrate the deer, lack of money concentrates the hunters....
Sorry Tad. I couldn't stop myself.
All them Middle Fork deer must have been pretty far off the road because my 3-yr-old and I didn't get very far off (about 100 yards is all) and we only saw a handful. Ok, well, at least a few hundred yards maybe. :)
I saw lots of does, all hanging out in farmers' back yards. No, not fields- actual back yards. Never did see a buck while I had my son out during the late season, but we only went out a couple times.
anyone heard how the late unit 55 season did? Thumper? You out there?
Some of you guys are making some pretty big ASSumptions.
Will the borg take over the planet. The only hope is by staying quiet as the collective actively interogates the federation......Stay tuned......
I'm done with it. The last thing I would want to do is be stuck on planet Nuts.. Would I then be a "techy" and not a "trecky" ?
There you go again. Two more assumptions.
Assumption #1 is that you have the facts when you do not.
Assumption #2 is that I didn't do my homework and instead want to pick somebody else's brain for what their homework provided them.
As I've said before. I'm not looking for any place to hunt. I'm quite satisfied with the one I've been hunting on the Middle Fork since before you or Mr Wapiti were born. (Now THAT'S some homework, wouldn't you say?) All I asked of Mr Wapiti is a general idea of where he was seeing hundreds of deer when hundreds of other hunters ... good hunters, with far more experience/years under their belts than you or Mr Wapiti ... were finding almost none.
A "general idea" is something like "between Breadwinner Creek and Granite Mt." (Do you have any idea at all how much terretory that is?) But, if that's too specific for some of you, then I'd suggest you refrain form discussing hunting areas at all. Maybe telling us that you saw some deer in Unit 39 is too specific. Heaven forbid! Another 1,000 hunters might read it and show up in the unit next year! Oh! The horror!
Offended? Hardly. It seems the offense is taken only by you and a few others. Offense at a harmless, if misunderstood, request. Offense that leads to incorrect assumptions.
OK Old sarge. general area i was in 39. close as you get. Grab a bow and hunt then you know what will go on during a bow season not rifle. :)
The age thing i am just offended at. you know there are some that do, some that can, and some that try but never will? I have a lot of friends that excel in many different areas of hunting that when they tell me something it is to help. I appreciate that and learn. I have hunted with some great folks and hope to hunt with a few more but my age has noting to do with experience.
Honestly when was the last time you hunted with a bow?
you know we get along just fine and ou would be welcome at my fire but i really have to agree with these guys, your digging, on a national forum. if you think i am that dumb then well your wrong. :)
I have had years where finding deer takes a bit. this year it worked and i found a lot. If you don't believe me that is fine. just say it don't beat around the bush.
Mt Man i know you mean well but really not your argument. :) thanks for trying to keep the peace.
Elkcrazy well..... they don't call you crazy for nothing. :)
Not with this statement: " Uh oh someone has mistaken "THE OLD SARGE" for "SARGE"." How can one ever mistake The Old Sarge for Sarge. Sarge is young and handsome. The Old Sarge is . . . .well you all know the truth.
Lets get this straight, I have never, ever asked for anyones Honey Hole location. I will admit, however, that I hinted and hinted for one of you to take me under your wing and invite me to share your elk camp during archery season. Even though there have never been any takers, (finally found out that most do not like women in camp, or that I stink) I still like the ribbing and commradeship that this site provides.
:^)
Opps! ! ! "found out that most do not like women in camp" I was thinking of my Bride, Major Mom, not me. I could just see that one coming. There are too many great guys on this thread that would never, ever let a slip like that go unanswered. LOL
Sarge
Sarge
The reason Mt. Man posted that is because I thought you were Sarge (from california) not Old Sarge. He did not mean anything bad by that comment, it was directed at me, then I edited what I orginally said before most people read it. If that ruffled your feathers that is my fault not Mt. Man. He was just having a good laugh at my mistake.
You say that you didn't ask anyones "honey hole" you asked: By all means, Mr. Wapiti ... don't offer any hints as to general location where you saw 150 deer per day ... on average.
You still haven't offered even a hint as to the general vacinity of where you saw so many deer per day
Anyone else who read this thread can make their own "ASSumption" (as you put it)
There is just one last question you avoid:
When was the last time you hunted with your bow?
Just incase your last questions "ARE" directed at me (for which I would not know why?) I have never hunted unit 39 late season because it is too damn cold up there in Idaho (normally, that is) Also, the last time I hunted with my bow was the last week of Elk Season up in Unit 25. I have not touched my rifles since 1994 when I was introduced to Archery by many on this site. Even worked with a couple of the local clubs (NBC, etc.) as has "The Old Sarge".
:^) (that is a smilely thingy ma gig.)
Sarge (In California) not the "OLD one.
Just for giggles.
My comments were not for you either, they were to bearcrazy,,,,AKA brock-id. I could care less about the "argument".
Another erroneous assumption. It's officially an "any weapon"... not "rifle season". Did anybody tell you I don't hunt with a bow?
"There is just one last question you avoid: When was the last time you hunted with your bow?" When have I ever avoided that question? When was I even asked that question, before now? Point out any question you can find that was put to me that I did not answer.
The last time I hunted with a bow was during the recent "any weapon" B-tag elk season in Unit 39. It ran from Nov 1 thru Nov 9. Did you too assume I only hunt with a rifle because someone mistakenly called it "rifle season"? What other assumptions are you clinging to?
...and still 4 months til turkey/bear season.
What we need here is a cyber-beertender. H4E! Where are you when we need you!?!
Old sarge it really seams that you are not only questioning the numbers but wanting to know where(general area) that i hunt. i usually don''t hunt in one spot, i generally hunt in about 4-5 diferent areas depending on the conditions. If that is not so then this is over if it is we can discuss this further :)
None of us know what you carry into the woods or even why. But most would assume, which could be our bad, that you wouldn't choose to carry a bow for the shortest rifle elk season in the state.
This is getting old, no matter what you point out to the "old Sarge" he will try to spin it another way. He is an expert, if you don't belive me, look over other threads along with this one and make your own determination. I have recieved 3 pm's on this thread and two of them said the same thing, "he likes to see his name in most of the threads and is a self proclaimed expert". Regardless of other opinions, to each their own. My last PM said "it's like trying to teach a mule to dance, it annoys the mule and wastes your time". I have decided not to waste any more time on this thread, there is nothing that can come out of it that is positive, and the negative can only hurt. Old Sarge, If you want to continue this please PM me.
Why would you assume I don't believe you? I was just curious as to what GENERAL AREA you’ve seen hundreds of deer when hundreds of other hunters were seeing so few. If you wish to think I was trying to weasel your hunting spot out of you, feel free to think so. That does not make it true. If you wish to think I disbelieve you, do that too. But just because you believe it does not make it a fact.
Brock, I'm not the one spinning anything. You make erroneous assumptions and proclaim to know my intentions based, in very large part, on those erroneous assumptions. Then you want to hold my feet to the fire and accuse me of spinning when I try to correct your errors. Why would you try to hold me responsible for assumptions and/or judgments that you make? Why can't you just read what I post and take it for what it is ... instead of spinning it yourself?
If you find this whole thing getting tedious (I know I sure do), then stop making erroneous assumptions about me and what I post and stop accusing me of things I’ve not done. Stop pretending to know my motives without even asking me what they are. As tedious as it has become, I'm certainly not going to allow you to make judgments about me without challenging the ones that are dead wrong. You’re the one that’s made this personal.
I ran into 5 BIG 4X4s (almost literally- they jumped right in front of my truck)on my way to kill a Christmas tree this afternoon- had countless does in the same vicinity on the way back after dark. These were all in the triangle.
How much??
and...... (sorry Brock) but it really wasn't up to you at all to even get into it, wasn't your spot to answer.
OK, I'm off to ride my snowmobile in this new white stuff. If you all can't find something else to do then go ahead and flame me :)
"I asked of Mr Wapiti is a general idea of where he was seeing hundreds of deer when hundreds of other hunters ... good hunters, with far more experience/years under their belts than you or Mr Wapiti ... were finding almost none."
Brock i think you accomplished your mission, the mule is dancing. you can relax now.
Who could have predicted that would happen????
I am sure with a new building; the deer and elk numbers will increase; and the wolves will migrate to florida.
Or perhaps I should start telling little kids that Santa can't make it as his reindeer were eaten by the wolves...
Holiday decisions !!
The elk season is still on up here; and the deer season too. Squeeky snow though :)
Didn't even know you were still in the country :)
Then you'd be incorrect. I have been for all hunters and for all hunters sticking together all my life. My comment was aimed at Elfking's comment, "... I am just astonished that the gun hunters would and could take away hunting time from us." It's THAT sort of comment and attitude that divides, not the humor I attempted.
However, anybody that has been around long enough knows that as archery-only seasons kicked in and then became longer and more wide-spread, the "rifle" seasons got shorter. In some units, some seasons even got moved out of the prime time, i.e. the rut, or went away entirely, and that slot was given to archers. It was necessary, according to F&G. You can only kill so many animals in a year, etc., etc. Doesn't matter by what method they're killed. So when you put in a new archery season, some other season often has to change or go away.
Anybody that knocks one type of hunting or routinely places his own method above the others is contributing to the divide. I've never done either of those things. Ever.
is this sticking together.
Its nice to see that things are finally returning to normal.....
So - technically - the rifle hunters threw the first rock.
Then too; we pay extra to hunt with a bow in Idaho; we pay for the bow seasons.
It was not rock throwers giving seasons to spear throwers giving seasons to bow hunters; giving seasons to rifle seasons.
It was market hunting and lack of controls by people that had no mind about game management that created the need for controls on hunting.
The idea of stopping uncontrolled hunting was a battle fought by Teddy Roosevelt. Conservation ( the wise use of our natural resources) was a concept brought forward by Aldo Leopold ( a bowhunter by the way).
When the first seasons were established; they were established around the use of guns; not bows.
Later; when bowhunting became popular; seasons for bowhunting were established...despite the outcry from rifle hunters.
I was at a fish and game meeting near Boise ( Don Clower era) and the complaint was made that: "all bowhunting should cease; as dead deer with arrows sticking out of them could be found everywhere". There was audible support from others at the meeting. I challenged the idea that any dead dear would not be eaten by coyotes; and that the man actually found even one deer with an arrow in it; and he shut up. But that was not that long ago that RIFLE hunters at this meeting made it plain that bowhunters were just not welcome in 'their' hunting grounds.
I believe very much in the importance of rifle hunting; I think it is integral to our youth to become familiar with the responsibilities of hunting; and the use of firearms.
I do hunt with a bow; you know a stick and string type design that goes back over 9000 years ... and I do not hope I can shoot an arrow over 300 feet per second; and I do not sit with 'bow' in hand: and hope that I get to 'squeeze the trigger' and "smoke" a deer or elk- with my bow.
I do believe - and time has proven; that the increased ease of shooting a bow; has been used to support the lack of effort needed to use a bow: ( I will cite that very statement by Lon Kuck to the antihunters in Hailey; when he was trying to outlaw bear baiting).
There are attempts after attempts to require testing to prove your accuracy with a bow before you can hunt with one ( see Alaska ); and yep; I do not see standing by a way of hunting that has existed for over 9000 years as wrong. I do see how the evolution of the "bow and arrow" is not only making bowhunting something- not requiring any devotion to the ideologies of bowhunting. That people are willing to give up seasons; and opprotunity......
Its a fact - a lot are willing to put down their bows- and 'go back' to rifle hunting... if there are not enough game animals to make for a bow hunt (see this thread).
I do not wish to be in the big tent - where as the number of people in the tent increases: to where the people that still hunt the 9000+ old way - are apt to be kicked out.
Nope; I do not believe that traditional bowhunters are welcome in the thought process of most 'bowhunters' of today.
And I do not want to be in a boat full of these people in our shark infested waters ( re: anti-hunters).
There are many people that like the ease of use of a compound or what ever they are called now ( cam bows?); and I have enjoyed hunting with them.
But once again- I would gladly buy a tag that allows me to bowhunt ONLY - in exchange for the retention of existing bow seasons.
That is the dividing line right there.
No matter what kind of bow you shoot; that is it. If your not willing to buy a bow tag for deer; and not be able to go out and hunt with a gun... or a bow tag for elk and not be able to hunt with a gun - if you just cannot see that as reasonable.... then your on the other side of line that makes it clear we are separate.
And don't blame that on traditional bowhunters - or on me. Its the 'one foot in one canoe' and 'one foot in another canoe'- people: that cannot make it across the stream of conflicts that we are facing.
And in so doing; are endangering both canoes.
I do think we need to be of one mind about protecting our game animals; and to stand as one against the wolf introduction; and as well the pompous attitude of the fish and game towards all hunters and fisherman in the state.
Yesterday I went with a bowhunter with un-punched tags; and we drove over 60 miles; through country we have always seen great numbers of game in. We drove to high overlooks; and walked to many overlooks; and after an all day effort we had seen more bighorn sheep than we saw deer ( we saw 9 deer) and no elk. Seems living on a rocky cliff is a defense against wolves.
Behind my cabin; where normally at this time of year there are from 100 to 300 or more elk; there are 65; two if which are fully racked bulls ( normally the big bulls stay up high).
WE need to stand up to the wolves; and the anti-hunters.
But we do not need to hold hands with crossbow season seekers or others that endanger the essence of bowhunting.
There have been some interesting comments throughout this whole thread that will do more to hurt us than help us. I think its time to start lurking again....Happy Holidays to everyone...........
Radios: If I am stalking a buck and my buddy across the canyon is telling me what the buck is doing via radio, that is not an advantage?
Rangefinder: If I have a buck at 54 yards, and I am not sure if it is 50 or 60, but my rangefinder tells me it is 54 yards, that is not an advantage?
ATV: If I can take an ATV up an old washed out road that a pickup cannot access, that is not advantage?
There is an advantage to every single piece of equipment that is available to hunters. Period! Every year, each product improves, to provide a better advantage. Look at rangefinders for example, now they compensate for the downhill angle.
You can list everything from the quality of hunting boots to high power rifles as a huge advantage compared to those who hunted 50 years ago.
In my opinion, the biggest killer to archery is all the marketing BS (hunting shows, manufactures developing new products to make it easier, etc). The marketing is what attracts people to the sport. People think large numbers is good for the sport because we have a larger voice. I completely DISAGREE. Our archery seasons were so much better 25 years ago, when we had small numbers. The larger the number, the more restrictions.
if i am not sure between 50 and 60 i would shoot for 55 and if it was 54 i would kill it ;) oh yea and if you can't tell the difference between the two you shouldn't be shooting that far. JMHO
now on the other side i AGREE that the marketing is not good for the sport. John your last paragraph hits the nail on the head.
One of the other problems we have here in Idaho is the "part timers" that discuss things with F&G that they may or maynot have a clue about. A few years ago i spend 3 months working with a commisioner trying to get him to believe that a comment made by a guy that never hunted antelope was just ignorant, the commisioner believed a guy that never hunted antelope. We almost lost a lot due to a comment from a guy that had "heard things"
Gene are you helping? :) LOL
I suggest you start doing some research and find out what the Pittman-Robertson act is all about....
you really don't get how easy it is with all these added devices. catch up with the times and maybe you will have some success! :)
Larv
Why do rifle hunters hunters use scopes on their guns? Does it make it easier, or do they just like packing around the added weight?
Elkcrazy, "All these advantages and the hunting is worse and harder"
How do figure that? Hunting is pretty good in my opinion.
Hey guys, if all this stuff does not add an advantage, WHY DO PEOPLE BUY IT, USE IT and PACK IT AROUND???????? Please answer that question.
Is it easier to swim with or without flippers??
"Wapiti, Harvest rates stay the same, but harvest numbers have increased how many fold?? How many elk were killed by bowhunters 30, 40, 50 years ago in Idaho? The elk calls that came on the market and the ease of calling in elk, must not of had anything to do with it. :) "
"How do figure that? Hunting is pretty good in my opinion"
Depends on what opinion of yours one bases his decision on!!!!!
I give up...... Happy Holidays
Can you answer my question posted above??
Lemme guess, there is no advantage to high speed internet versus dial up, too. :)
put people in front of a tv and tell them how great a product is they will buy it. Sad but true.
Okay I will agree there is a slight advantage but if there was such an increased advantage shouldnt the success rate jump. I looked at the Idaho Fish & Game stats back to 2001 and there are not any big jumps in the success rates. So all of our rangefinders, atvs, fast shooting bows, sure dont seem to mean much at all! If anyone has data proving otherwise please post it. You can talk about the advantage all your want, but success rate data seems to be the proof. Correct or Incorrect?
* im with you on the marketing issue, im tired of running into morons in the woods with all the latest gadgets and gizmos, who's cameo looks neatly pressed and without stains, who dont have a clue about anything. BUT...im not such an "bowhunter" to not help give them advice to try and help them learn how to "really" bowhunt and help them experience a real bowhunt. Bowhunting its self, will decide who wants to true hunt or who just bought into the hype.
i'd be thrilled i can help some "marketing influenced" nuckle head experience what bowhunting is really about, just like someone did with me 14years ago. Im disappointed in this "against growing bowhunting numbers" attitude im hearing.
Idahoelkfever, "Okay I will agree there is a slight advantage but if there was such an increased advantage shouldnt the success rate jump".
Your next statement pretty much answers that question.
"im tired of running into morons in the woods with all the latest gadgets and gizmos, who's cameo looks neatly pressed and without stains, who dont have a clue about anything."
As the number of hunters increase, so do these types of hunters, who couldn't kill an animal with a rifle during archery season. Thus, the harvest rate will stay the same. The gadgets will never make somoeone a better hunter, but it will help them kill an animal when the opportunity comes along.
You are tired of running into morons in the woods, but you are pro-growth for the sport? Sorry, but you can't have one without the other. My opionion only, but growth is not good. The resources can only allow so many people to play, thus restrictions become greater and greater.
Funny how nobody will answer my question. If the gadgets don't make it easier, then WHY DOES EVERYONE USE THEM???? Marketing gets people to buy the product, but if the product didn't work, people wouldn't continue to buy it, thus, companies would go belly up. Simple concept difficult for some to understand.
I didn't answer because I agree that the "gadgets" DO tip the odds towards hunters and away from animals. That's exactly why most people employ all the "gadgets". Some, however, use them simply because someone told them they should. Marketing.
I also agree that "growth" in hunter numbers results in fewer opportunities down the road. Just look at the opportunities that have flown the coop since Idaho had only 750,000 residents.
Funny how nobody will answer my question. If the gadgets don't make it easier, then WHY DOES EVERYONE USE THEM???? Marketing gets people to buy the product, but if the product didn't work, people wouldn't continue to buy it, thus, companies would go belly up. Simple concept difficult for some to understand.
I can say why I use some of the gadgets, I don't think the make it any easier, I think they improve my accuracy. (rangefinder, ACC Arrows,precision made broadheads) Vs. (no rangefinder, the straightest cedar arrows I could find, a broadhead that is not as sharp or straight as the my new ones or a bow I made myself.)
I believe there are trade offs when shooting a fast bow, I believe form has to be there to put that arrow where you want it. The arrow may go faster to help take out some of the guess work, But if I don't do the same thing as I did in practice, I will still miss or worse yet wound. These make me more acccurate, not have an easier hunt. Bottom line is I still have to do homework, scout, hang tree stands, put up blinds and use every bit of knowledge to try to get close enough for a shot. The marketing leads people to think that if they buy there brand of product you will have great success. Thats what they do, how they make a living, I think I can see through that. I hope I answered your question?
I've yet to see anything that will help me get up the hill to the deer yet. That's what I'm looking for. When that comes out let me know.
I've killed all my deer with my old slow bow and no range finder and my old Pentax 10x42's.
One thing we should be worried about is the rate at which our Deer and Elk are dissapearing instead of arguing about gadgets. What good are Gadgets going to be when we have nothing to chase?
"Okay I will agree there is a slight advantage but if there was such an increased advantage shouldnt the success rate jump. I looked at the Idaho Fish & Game stats back to 2001 and there are not any big jumps in the success rates. So all of our rangefinders, atvs, fast shooting bows, sure dont seem to mean much at all! If anyone has data proving otherwise please post it. You can talk about the advantage all your want, but success rate data seems to be the proof. Correct or Incorrect?"
Respectfully it could be incorrect.
There is story about a statistician turned life insurance salesman. After a week; his boss called him into his office- and said he had surely bankrupted his company; as he had sold 100,000 million dollars of life insurance to men over the age of 95. The statistician turned life insurance salesman said in return: " don't worry boss; I checked the statistics; and less people over 95 die each year than under 95 !".
I think it is obvious that there have been things that increase the ability to get to having a dead deer- from an arrow wound- to tag.
But as advantages go up; there are things that effect the statistics - and make that less clear.
For instance 10% of 100 is 10. If there is a ten percent success rate; with 100 archers- there are 10 deer taken. With 1000 archers ( just to make a point) a ten percent success would be 100 deer taken. The success rate is the same; but the number of hunters that did not kill a deer was 90; and climbed to 900. One could say there certainly are a lot less successful hunters out there!
While modern bow advantages and atv's and range finders and other things go up in number; and the advantages serve some or most- there are other factors that do not... like more hunting pressure; more evasive actions by deer to avoid hunters; and changes in habitat; and weather....and of course an out of control wolf population.
This thread started to evolve; and its been interesting - a once terrific hunting area - where hundreds of deer a day could be seen.... now an area where few deer are seen by most.
Its something we are going to need experience to discuss....as it seems to be our future in Idaho.
DDD
But you know what they say about "want" and "wish" and something about " ... in one hand ...". :0)
Tiz the season!!!
Nice Buck Tad!
In 2008 there were 1395 hunters in the 39 Archery season, 177 shot deer. One of them even saw around 150 deer a day, while other more experienced hunters saw far less :)
In 2011 there were 1607 hunters in the 39 Archery season, 187 shot deer. I know a guy who saw over 100 deer a day in 2011 as well :)
So Tad, since it's been years and this still has not been resolved, what general area were you hunting..? LMAO
Gene, we need to look into those site's for our glocks next time we head out downtown. Bring the gas too!
Oh BTW.. I just ordered a new rangefinder, with ARC. I should be covered for this coming winter in 55.
The original comment about mid-way up the Middle Fork and the response about Repeat Creek went like this ...
ehiztary "I was up in and above the snow line mid way up the Middle Fork."
me "Where do you consider mid-way up the Middle Fork?"
ehiztary "Hey Sarge, I hunted in between Logging Gulch and where the N. Fork dumps in."
For the record ... and for those that chose to ignore it the first time ... the spot he's talking about isn't even on the Middle Fork. It's on the Boise River. The Middle Fork ends where the North Fork "dumps in". I was attmepting to point out that some people don't know the area as well as they think they do and often confuse things, especially with names and such.
Now someone please tell me ... and everyone else ... what all my posts mean. Again.
The Old Sarge
OS apparently nothing :)
Nothing what, Mr. Wapiti?
sorry that was a little abstract
btw glad it wasn't g-o f your....... LOL
