x Gun Changes
Pennsylvania
New Commissioner, Ron Weaner has proposed some more changes in the X Gun law. Now that Pallone and Schleiden (the knucklehead who first pushed for legalizing x guns) are no longer commissioners there is a good chance of limiting the x gun presence in the woods.
Gimme a YEAH!
Weaner's proposal
Here are the specifics of Game Commissioner Ron Weaner's four-point proposal regarding when and if crossbows should be legal for hunting. His proposal would:
• Continue the existing crossbow permit program, which allows hunters with a doctor's excuse to use a crossbow in any archery season
• Continue to allow hunters with a muzzleloader license to hunt with a crossbow in the early and late muzzleloader seasons
• Prohibit the use of crossbows in the archery bear season, except for those with a disabled permit
• And limit crossbow use to the first two weeks of the six-week statewide archery season.
I'd jump up and cheer for those changes, but is it actually possible to get passed before the up coming archery deer season???
Yes forrest, certainly is. The time crunch is the big issue however. Seems the commissioners like this idea.
If they had said an intorductory season of only the first two week it would have made a much easier pill to swallow from the get, I'm still not for um but im also not too greedy. Everyone should get an equal opportunity, lets just not go overboard
Guys, Send your vote of approval to the commissioners. They need to hear from the hunters.
Weaner's proposal would now prohibit crossbows even in the SRA's?
Probably an unintended consequence.
Crossbow use in the special regulations area would remain exactly as it was last year as well.
Hunting gal is correct. Bear archery and SRAs regulations would remain as they were before the vote in January. All the other provisions of the proposal are accurately listed in salty dog's first post above. I KNOW, the commissioner's worked long and hard on the points of this proposal before Mr. Weaner introduced it at the April meeting. It is the same solid 'science first' approach we have been expecting for the last eight or so years. I also know exactly what happened in January, I just don't quite know why. BUT..it is evident we are back on track...and four of the commissioners need a rousing show of support, approval, and gratitude from all of us!!!! Let's get 'er done folks...and then observe them 'GET ER DONE!!!! I would add this...I think the commissioners understand very well our concerns for the entire "Picture"...I think they heard us loud and clear long before Janauary..and I think what they heard best was our never wavering concern for science sanctioned recreation time. I'm thinking right now..all they need from us is the above mentioned support, approval, gratitude. (a little faith in the 'system' wouldn't hurt either:))) ed
The more I read about this and the more I hear when discussing it with other concerned hunters, the more it sounds like this might just work out. It seems that with Pallone and Schleiden out of the picture, the PGC might actually be trying to get things done without the legislative interfearance of the past. That in itself diserves our support, because that in itself was the biggest roadblock to progress.
Ed and Jen, the proposal does not say EXCEPT SRA's.
The proposal would end crossbows in SRA's, and also in the archery bear season.
Brad, would they still be permitted in SRA's during the 2 week "crossbow season"? Also, would they still be legal in the rifle deer and bear seasons and during the turkey seasons?
And a lot of people already ran out and dumped a bunch of $$$$ on the latest xbows.Did any of you guys see the latest guns and ammo mag?PSE has a full page add in there for their latest crossbow,built on an assualt rifle platform.Seriously.
It is the same solid 'science first' approach we have been expecting for the last eight or so years. -Ed
This is all I ever asked for. My graditude Ed for your patience and efforts to push this through.... again!
Joey
The chances of this issue being approved prior to the bow season are possible, but slim. For sure it will require that at least one of the three currently vacated seats on the Board of Commissioners is fill prior to the July meeting.
THAT IS NOT THE CASE!!! Putnam was confirmed by the Seante today. There is a quorum!!! There can BE the same notational vote on the proposal there was on the scope amendment!!!! There is movement everywhere. It is time for bowhunters to speak up!!!!! Postively!!! Some of us KNEW the confirmation was coming. Some of us KNEW...ONE...confirmation was imminent!!! That is really good news for all of us. Spread the news, please???:)))) ed
Like Ed said, this does need to be fixed, and in a hurry. If it isn't, crossbows will be legal this fall, and this proposal will be down the toilet. Only thing after that point will be setting the season length for crossbows, if there is shown to be a major impact on the resource.
If too many guys go out and buy crossbows for this fall, you ain't putting that Genie back in the bottle, no way, no how. Right now, I'd suspect there is going to be an uproar if Weaner's proposal does pass.
What a screwed up mess.......
It isn't a proposal! Weaner asked staff to examine the 4 points.
Don't own a crossbow and only hunted with one once. But, seems that is held against a person on this forum. Oh well.
Ed- thanks for the news! Things seem to be looking brighter every day!!! :) Seems like the "Good guys" are trying to step up to protect the resource and prevent a potential disaster! THANK YOU Mr. Weaner, Mr. Delaney and Mr. Boop!!!!!! :)
Any background info on Putnam?
Rut, You are correct! This needs fixing and there are four gentlemen on the BOC whom are working for the resource, right now. We all need to support them.
Actually...Commisioner Weaner "charged" staff with preparing a 'proposal'. And..so they will. That is waht commisioners do...direct staff. Staff will fully evaluate all parameters of such chsrge..various Bureaus will prepare for allfacets of a regulatory change...which they either recommend or not...and the tne commissioners will make THEIR decision. Commissioner Weaner asked staff to prepare such a proposal. They will. Wildlife and Law Enforcement. It's waht they "do":))) And If I must say so...most times...thyey do it most admirably:)))) I've tipped my hat moren a couple times to all Bureau chiefs. (I've also called 'em on the carpet a couple times. BUT..usually...they're right:) This COULD be a lotta fun..and very interesting. Stay tuned:) Please:) ed
There is no rule or law that says changes must be in the Hunting Digest, and there is precedent for things being changed after the Digest is printed. Every year waterfowl regs are issued after the digest is printed. If the digest warns hunters to look at website, etc. it reduces some of the enforcement issues.
Sorry, I must have hit submit twice. I'll write something else to avoid duplication. Denny F must know something about crossbows, last night he made a bolt for the bathroom door. LOL
Delaney, Weaner, Schreffler and Boop.
These gentlemen have stood up for bowhunters. Time to stand up and support them.
One more time folks, - write, call, email. Spread the word if we defeat this xbow thing it will be BIG News!
And as the song goes "Let's Rock this Town"!!
Get to work, you all know the drill.
[email protected]
Jen, that link isn't working.
UBP MEMBER ALERT
At the April Meeting of the PGC Board of Commissioners Commissioner Weaner introduced a motion that would make changes to the crossbow proposal given final adoption at the January 2009 Meeting. Weaner’s motion includes the following:
• Maintain the existence of the system through which disabled hunters have obtained special permits allowing them to use crossbows in all big-game archery seasons. That system essentially was eliminated by the January vote.
• Allow the use of crossbows by everyone only during the first 12 days of the fall archery deer season. Beyond that, only disabled hunters with the special permits could use crossbows to hunt deer during the archery season.
• Except for hunters with the handicapped permits, outlaw the use of crossbows during the two-day archery bear season in Wildlife Management Units 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F, 2G, 3A, 4A, 4B and 4D.
• Allow crossbows to be used in place of muzzleloaders during the early and late muzzleloading seasons.
Essentially Commissioner Weaner’s proposal is an attempt to return the science to the crossbow proposal, as well as the biological aspects of small initial opportunity with time for data collection before further expansion. The UBP is asking all of our members to support Commissioner Weaner’s motion and we ask that each of you write the Commissioners and the Pennsylvania Game Commission to let them know of your support.
This issue is as important to the future of bow hunting as the original proposal to allow general use of the crossbow. That issue was passed without the proper and normally applied wildlife management science, but the approval of Commissioner Weaner’s motion will at least return that science to the issue.
You may write to any or all of the Commissioners at 2001 Elmerton Avenue, Harrisburg, PA 17110-9797, or email message them at,
Ronald Weaner, Secretary - [email protected]
James J. Delaney,Jr, Vice President – [email protected]
David W. Schreffler – [email protected]
Gregory J. Isabella –[email protected]
Thomas Boop –[email protected]
PA Game Commission – [email protected]
Come on guys and gals, get those cards and letters moving. I know some of you are disappointed that it didn't seem to help in January...but that was then, and this is now.
We are bowhunters, we are used to putting in the effort many times with no result, and finally the patience pays off. Write, please write!
Writing is important but IMO keeping your letters and emails polite is most important. Before anyone jumps on me, I have always been against full inclusion of crossbows and have sent many emails stating that. But the time for stomping our feet and saying no more weapons in OUR Season is over. We need to accept that crossbows are going to be legal in archery season for some length of time. We need to ask them to add them slowly so the impact on the resource can be measured rather than just throwing them into the entire season. A slow inclusion will allow them to gather the needed data so that the crossbow inclusion will not cause a need to reduce the season length. Make these points in a polite, professional manner and we can keep the effect of the crossbow on archery season to a minimum.
There are crossbow folks writing from out of state and even a few from Canada.
That normal wildlife management science was not applied.... before the crosscow was approved and passed?
No, they are from a PRO-*****bow site urging full inclusion! :(
anybody know Commissioner Boop's current e-mail addy?
i used the one above( [email protected]) and it bounced back! :(
I agree Ernie- we can state our opinions in a respectful manner, even when we strongly disagree on certain points.
I just sent the following letter out this morning after several days of careful consideration and thought(and several edits):
Dear Commissioners,
There are several issues which I feel are very important, and on which I would like to share my comments. First, I would like to express my deep appreciation for the PGC’s initiation, and continued support of the Youth Mentored Hunting Program. A few weeks ago, I had the opportunity to take my (then) 10 y/o son on his first ever youth mentored hunt for Spring Gobbler. Although we did not hear, let alone see any turkeys, the experience will be long remembered for the time we were able to share together in the woods that morning. I believe it made a real difference in spurring some interest in our hunting heritage, especially considering all the other activities competing for a young man’s attention these days, such as baseball, basketball, church and school activities. Until then, my son was noncommittal about signing up for a HTE course. But after this experience, he eagerly asked when he could sign up for the class and I am happy to say, he is currently registered for a HTE course in August(he turned 11 last week). I believe if it were not for the Youth Mentored Program, he probably would not have had the interest to take the course. The second issue I would like to discuss is the crossbow proposal. I attended both the Oct. ’08 and the Jan. ’09 PGC meetings and voiced my opposition to this proposal. My concern was with full inclusion statewide and the very real consequences this could have on the deer herd, and the archery season as we know it. After the October meeting, I was very disappointed that the proposal passed, but still had faith that the BOD would “do the right thing” in January and vote NO. So, when the proposal passed in January in the face of overwhelming opposition, as an avid bowhunter in this state, I felt utter disappointment! What troubled me the most, was the BOD’s willingness to rush ahead with full inclusion, despite the danger that such an approach could foster. But with that said, I am grateful to Mr. Weaner for directing PGC Staff to look into this proposal more closely. I am also thankful that other commissioners including Mr. Delaney, Mr. Boop and possibly Mr. Schreffler share many of the same concerns that I have had for months- namely the effect full inclusion would have on the total deer harvest, pre-rut buck harvest, archery bear harvest and the current archery bear data(research.) I am glad to see that some on the board prefer a more measured approach when it comes to introducing the crossbows into the archery season, and realize the importance of gradual implementation with data collection, as opposed to sudden and full inclusion. Therefore, I strongly urge the BOC to vote favorably on all 4 vital aspects of Mr. Weaner’s proposal in June, and to do everything in your power to make this happen before the next hunting season, to prevent any possible damage to the resource. It is encouraging to see the BOC revisit this proposal and attempt to fix what I, and many other folks consider a very bad decision in January. Thank you for your time and consideration in these matters.
Respectfully, Perry Hartmann Milford, Pa. 18337
the only one that should be able to use a crossbow. is someone with a handicap. they should put a stop to it now. if the only way for you to hunt is with a crossbow than thats great get out there and hunt. but if your able to hunt and just want to use a crossbow. go buy one and go hunt high fence. and go brag about your big hunt.
Il. Bowhunter, do you know of any new weapon that was added statewide for 6 weeks of season for deer right off the bat? Archery deer didn't start like that. Nor did muzzleloader. And don't get me started on archery bear. :)
I would advise everyone from PA to sign your letters to the BOC and INCLUDE your mailing address, to show you are a PA HUNTER!
It appears that there has been a "call to arms" on a certain PRO-*****bow website for everyone(including out of staters and out of country folks) to write letters to OUR PGC BOD and blindly support full *****bow inclusion in PA!
I just sent another e-mail to the BOC to make them aware of this and to urge them to give PA HUNTERS VIEWS the "weight" they deserve.
That is one of the problems with e-mail. It's hard to figure out where people are e-mailing from. Amyone could SAY they hunt in PA, meanwhile they could be sitting in Canada, illinois, Iowa, Australia, England etc................
SO, I SAY AGAIN- PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR HOME ADDRESS WHEN E-MAILING THE PGC BOC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does this change the sunset ruling at all?
Eh?
It goes back to how it was with crossbows with the exception of allowing them 2 weeks in archery season.
I'm sure I misunderstood though.
"Il. Bowhunter, do you know of any new weapon that was added statewide for 6 weeks of season for deer right off the bat?"
Mark. Yes..! The crossbow was added right off the bat in IL's bow season, for anyone 62 or older. Our season is 3 1/2 months long.
The crossbows is a new weapon into Pa's season. But is was added in the same fashion as Pa. early M/L season.
I'd let the 7 people 62 or older in PA still hunting use whatever they wanted. Not a good comparison.
Same with the early ML season.
It started out as flint only for a few days. Then went to a week. And eventually included inlines.
And when flintlock started, it was only on Game Lands, or even limited Game lands.
Not meaning to hang onto a non archery comparison here, but , isn't flintlock still flintlock and the inlines only allowed during the early muzzleloader?
Il, how many hunters are there in your state? archery, crossbow, rifle? Just wondering...
Mark, In today's time, 62 is still young.
I know several in Pa. that have passed 62 Y/O, some 15-20 years ago. And they all are still deer hunting.
Greybeard, Your correct. The "Early" anterless flintlock season started in the special regulation Co's. The Red Co's. Then the early anterless M/L season went states wide in 2nd, or maybe the 3rd year.
spider1, Yes, Pa's after Christmas flintlock season is still flintlock only. The inlines are only allowed during the early muzzleloader season.
IL. has about 120,000 hunters in our bow season. That includes all who use crossbows, and N/R's.
Don't know the total number of deer hunters in IL. But IL. sells about 550,000 deer tags. That includes all deer tag sold.
Firearm tags are sold in limited numbers per. Co.
I hope, for us at least, you're right. :)
Like I said, I'd let them use a crossbow in any of the seasons without a care if they are out there hunting still.
I was referring to the late flintlock season, not the early antlerless season. I believe the flintlock began on Game lands first.
It did. Only a few of them at that.
They began slowly, and even after a lot of pushing by those that wanted it to go in-line, or even percussion, they decided to keep it a flintlock season to preserve the challenge to keep it a low impact season. But they don't mind adding the crossbow to both the muzzle-loader seasons and the archery season without a single serious impact study.
Il, you can't compare Illinois with PA, we have twice the # of hunters and a completely different geographical and demographic make up. Our state lands have been over hunted while the private, residential land is still over populated. The answer to the problem we face here isn't adding another weapon to further eliminate the deer herd from the state land.
Spider, I am liking your posts lately, alot:)
Spider, Pa. should have impact study info. from years of returned harvest cards, from those who already use crossbows.
What other study is needed?
Thanks Ed, I wish I had your understanding of these processes, it hurts my head just thinkin about it sometimes. And sometimes it makes me wanna just go fishin ;)
Il, the crossbows have only been in the SRA's for a short time. I don't know how much info they could have gotten in that time but I can tell you it would only be limited to those particular areas. The information needed to make this type of decision must be accumulated state wide and it must be done methodically. Some of the info won't come from report cards. Demographic studies must be done to determine how many new hunters will be moving into this season, how many compound and or rifle hunters will be switching to crossbows for this season and even how many hunt in all seasons using different weapons. These studies are way above a simple machinist like myself to understand, but one thing I do understand is, they haven't done these studies yet so they shouldn't even be thinking of going full inclusion state wide. Once that is done, there would be no turning back.
Il. Bowhunter, I'm surprised at you guys that think the relatively few and select group using crossbows in the past is a good read on what unlimited statewide use would be. SRA's is also a different animal from the rest of the state. But I'm sure over time you will see that the percentage of crossbow harvest in the SRA's would surpass hand held bow harvests, just as it does in Ohio. And I think we've lost something then.
But it's more about fair chase and challenge for me than anything. If you're too busy or tired to learn to shoot a hand held bow effectively, what wrong with golf or just rifle hunting during that season?
IL bowhunter your talken 550,000 total tags, we have over 900,000 general hunting liscences sold last year and 870,000 doe tags, Pa is different from all other states in sheer numbers of hunters. Useing statistics from other states is idiotic, kinda like the whole oranges and appples thing. I feel that this season will see a huge increase in hunters during the archery season, and of course there will be alot of "you wont believe what this crossbow guy did......." end result probably more deer killed during early archery season.
Which will in my opinion put added hunting pressure on the deer herd. Causen more deer to go nocturnal, maken the gun season even that much harder to find a deer during daylight hours. So the guys that should be up in arms teh most are the rifle hunters. But come decemeber you will see a whole bunch of crossbows in the papers for sale when guy realize it isnt a slam dunk deal. Well good luck all, hope the outcome is better than it looks.
Anybody know of a nice piece of private land for sale.
Forrest, 900,000 aint nothing.
I remember when Pa. sold between 1.2m and 1.3m general hunting liscences.
Have you written your BOC today?
Have you written your House Game & Fisheries Committee today?
Staback, Edward G. , Chairman Haluska, Gary, Vice Chairman Murphy, Kevin P. , Secretary
Dally, Craig A. , Chairman Keller, Mark K., Vice Chairman Rock, Todd , Secretary
Costa, Dom Daley, Peter J. DeLuca, Anthony M. Gergely, Marc J. Goodman, Neal P Hanna, Michael K. Hornaman, John Kula, Deberah Levdansky, David K. Mahoney, Tim McGeehan, Michael P. Readshaw, Harry Cutler, Bryan Everett, Garth D. Gillespie, Keith Krieger, Tim Moul, Dan Peifer, Michael Pyle, Jeffrey P. Sonney, Curtis G.
Gentlemen, This topic is going to lose momentum if you don't get it in gear and send in your comments. I know you did it before, but this may be your last chance. Get your comments in today.
[email protected]
News of the xbow vote possibly being recended is gonna slow sales for sure until this mess is sorted out..Taking back those last four weeks is gonna convince many to just not lay out the substantial investment, thus coupled with the lower success rate of the early season will show the low harvest numbers necessary to insure full inclusion next year...Good thinking folks!
Huntinggal is right, You guys gotta get off your duff. I know you were disappointed when a majority of the PGC Commissioners SEEMED your ignore your public testimoney and letter/email writing last time.
But that was then and this is now. The majority on the BOC seemes to have shifted, and I have it from a reliable source they DO want to hear from you.
Obviously, some of us would like to say more, but you bowhunters are smart enough to know this site is monitored by the crossbow crew and crossbow hunters.(Just look at the post above mine, misinformation planted to lull us into inactivity). Anything we post here is in their hands within minutes or hours at the most.
Even if you are not inclined to trust the Commissioners now, trust some of us you have known for sometime when we urge you to write. We know what we are talking about.
Huntinggal listed the address/email address above in this post. Please reference them and use them.
I have sent emails to the BOC on this subject and have received a response of each and every BOC member. That is very encouraging.
Greybeard is right. The BOC is waiting to hear from you. Come on bowhunters you don't often get a second chance. I know for certain there are comissioners who are looking for support from the bowhunting community to justify this. Show them you support Com. Weaners position. This is one time when your comments will count!
I know the above statements to be true. You all need to take just one more shot at this. There is lot more to be gained by all hunters and future generations if this is done right...than there is to be lost if we don't give it that last Herculean effort. Let's get on it. regards, ed.
Sent a few emails.
Something along these lines usually:
I’m very happy we are working to pull back some from the full inclusion of the crossbows that was recently passed.
I thought that was a little reckless in many ways, including wildlife management.
But for me it’s also about fair chase and challenge. The crossbow doesn’t compare with the hand held bow in difficulty of getting that shot off in a hunting situation.
And I have a problem with the win at any cost mentally for hunting and wildlife management. Bringing the Legislators into wildlife management is so wrong I think it shows a lack of understanding of the overall picture. And we shouldn’t allow people trying that to ever succeed. Ant-hunters might be the next to succeed at it.
But I feel we need to try to make most people at least reasonably satisfied with whatever is done or it will never end. And this combat among hunters isn’t a good thing.
Peace, love, and beads baby.
When will they make a decision regarding the rollback?
The next scheduled meeting is July 8 & 9. Doors open at 7:45 AM each day, the meeting commences at 8:30 AM. First day is public testimoney and staff reports. Second day is actions on business. If it is acted on, it could be proposed and given a tentative approval. There is then a period of time which must pass before a final approval is given.
The timing and time frame of such a decision at this time of the year is problematic, but not necessarily impossible. More information may be available after a "work session" that is held sometime in June. To the best of my knowledge that is not open to the public, and no offical business is conducted at these meetings. However, there is apparently a provision or provisions for phone conferences and notational votes that can apparently happen at any time.
From talking with one staff member in particular, he indicated that those proposing/supporting this rollback wanted to, or preferred to, conduct this all in open public meetings. I was told that about six weeks ago in April.
That's the long answer to a short question.
C'mon folks...pitch the stuff...before it becomes a solid mat. Write call email........now!!!!!!
Also, make your plans to attend the July 8-9 meeting to provide comment. Bring the family and make a mini-vacation of it. I'm sure they won't mind you stopping in at the PGC while they take in the sites.
Bowhunters urge lawmakers to back off Buzz up!By Bob Frye, TRIBUNE-REVIEW OUTDOORS EDITOR Monday, June 22, 2009 About the writer Bob Frye covers the outdoors for the Tribune-Review. He can be reached via e-mail.
Home Delivery
The United Bowhunters of Pennsylvania didn't win the war they wanted, but they haven't given up fighting either.
The group — which tried unsuccessfully to convince Pennsylvania Game Commissioners to keep crossbows out of the statewide archery season — is now asking state lawmakers to stay out of the fray.
The reason? At the commission's April meeting, commissioner Ron Weaner of Adams County proposed limiting crossbow use in a couple of ways. He suggested, among other things, that they be allowed in just two weeks of the six-week archery season and that they be prohibited in the archery bear season.
He said then that his idea was to move more slowly and try to determine the impact of crossbows on the deer herd before allowing their widespread use.
That's just the kind of science-based idea UBP wanted to hear, according to a letter sent to lawmakers by the group's president, Wes Waldron.
"Pennsylvania bowhunters have faced and even embraced the wildlife management science of slow and incremental inclusion of a new hunting tool or additional opportunity, as well as the necessity for an accurate means of data collection in regard to participation and harvest; and we expected nothing less in regard to the crossbow decision," Waldron wrote.
The Bowhunters are worried, though, that some lawmakers might try to do an end-run around the commission and approve crossbows for use in all seasons via legislation. Waldron asked that they resist that temptation.
"As it stands today, commissioner Weaner's motion presents the means to institute the science that was missing in the successful implementation of his suggestions could well make the whole issue much more palatable for all concerned," Waldron said.
Anything just to keep crossbows out of the rut under the guise of "resource first"...Do you guys really expect this "war" to end next Thursday if the BOC rolls back the crossbow season?....Far from it!....That I promise.
And I for one would have bet on that response:)
You can tell by the pro-crossbow peoples discussions that this is primarily for them about getting a crack at what they heard was an easy harvest of a large buck during the rut without having to master the hand held bow. I bet they'd be happy and quiet if they just got that first two weeks in November. And it wouldn't take them long to learn that's rarely the easy hunt they thought when that buck seemed stupid while they were squirrel hunting that one time.
It is truely sad to see how this crossbow battle continues to highlight the worst. There are some on the one side that some would say are greedy and do not want any intrusions into their season. Meanwhile some on the other side are just as greedy in wanting the whole 6 weeks of the season for themselves while hiding behind "to get more children and women involved". Thankfully there is a group of us that really do want the decision of crossbow implementation to be based on wildlife management. Basing this decision on what is best for the resource is the only thing in this entire battle that makes sense. Hunters are the first and true conservationists. Conservation is the wise use of a renewable resource. If we allow our emotions and passions (AND Politics) to get in the way of that "wise use" then it will only be a short step until we are no longer conservationist. When we are no longer conservationists we will have lost the big battle and we will no longer be hunting.
For those of you who can't follow my logic, here's a summary. If you do not care about future generations hunting then do whatever it takes to support the type of hunting you want.If the politicians start making decisions about wildlife management it will eventually lead to the demise of hunting as we know it. The majority of politicians are non-hunters. Who knows how long till that majority will be anti-hunters. Does anyone out there really think that if we allow the politicians to make wildlife management decisions that when the antis control the political arena they will allow us to continue to hunt as we do now? The anti-hunters out there love to use politics, that alone should give us an indication to keep politicians out of wildlife management decisions.
Purty good read there Ernie~(8o)
Mpst bowhunters I know don't shoot just any legal buck or any size doe. Alot of hunters are very selective in what they shoot at trying to take a mature buck or doe. So what's the difference if I kill a mature deer with a x-bow or a compound or rifle. It's still just one buck in PA and a couple of doe permits if you choose to use them. Last year I did'nt kill a buck, did'nt see alot of shooters. The one that eluded me and did'nt give me a good shot is hopefully still around. There's been years where I have'nt shot does because I hunted on ground posted NO DOE HUNTING, and you have to respect that. Not everyone tries to kill every deer they see just to say "I tagged out".
I've been reading this thread with interest. Yesterday I received my latest issue of the P&Y Club Newsletter. On Page 93 it states and I quote: "The NRA came out publicly in favor of altering bowhunting regulations to redefine a crossbow as a hunting bow." What has been the outcome?
They also have been lobbying hard in Michigan and Texas to "slam crosbows into bow only seasons."
Page 95 shows a crossbow built on an assault rifle frame as someone referenced earlier in this thread.
Scary.
Larv
It is very nice of the NRA Manager of Hunting Policy to include his phone number for the 'Legislators' to call.
Hint! Hint!
Thanks Brad
Asking the politicians to step in to set hunting regulation and then accusing some members of the Commission of playing politics is way too much iron in my diet. They should have stuck with the lead. It would cause long term problems if the NRA didn't pay a heavy price for this, not just because of this crossbow push, but because of laying the ground work for anti-hunters having politicians do what sort of hunting regulation they prefer.
I called the number and surprize, no one answers, it is a voice mail, but I left a firm and strong message.
Keep calling that number. The NRA has again done bowhunters a great disservice, and probably not helped most hunters, and certainly not wildlife management. They are the ones drinking crossbow Kool-aid.
Darren's voicemail gives you another phone number, for John, at 703-267-1141. He will recite the crossbow mantra, declining hunters, expanded opportunities up one side and down the other. I tried a reasonable conversation but all I got were talking points that sound just like everything coming out of the crossbow literature. I can't believe OUR NRA has bought this BS and are promoting it too.
They are eroding their support base.
