Lets just all hold our breath and hope for an oct. 1 start sometime in the near future. At least this year we have an extra week before gun opens up!
I would welcome an early opener.
Just thoughts !
As October rolls along, the bucks start putting space between each other and the miles on.
'Course that timing depends on the moon. ;0)
But this year, since the rut will be later than it was last year, the bachelor groups for the most part will hold together later than last year.
I watched a small bachelor group this morning with three nice eights (in velvet of course.) Had my binos on them the whole time. A small four-pointer kept trying to hang with them but was chased off by one of the eight pointers as they moved through three fields.
It reminded me of when we were kids and had a gang and if a smaller kid wanted to hang with us, we would pick on him.
I wonder if that bachelor group behavior has been noticed by any of you guys (pecking order?)
Just a thought: maybe that's why yearling bucks are so nomadic, they want to find a "posse" but keep getting driven out by "the enforcer" in the established bachelor group?
Shoot more does, balance out the herd a bit more, have a chance at a real rut where the bucks have to travel to find another doe to breed, ( not every 100 yards ! :) lol ! )
Seems like the doe population is way up here on the island.
I also understand that this will have an early (Sept) doe only muzzleloader season attached, along with Cross Bows.
That is what is buzzing around the Southern Tier. HAs anyone else heard this?
In these difficult economic times, I would think a state agency like the DEC, under tremendous budgetary pressure would be hesitant to initiate anything new and and costly, (new regs and enforcement, and study) especially if it was controversial (i.e. the recent and shot-down statewide AR trial balloon.)
Was it common sense or what that nixed the mandatory, statewide AR proposal? (thankfully!)A safe guess would be that it had a lot to do with finances.
I support a Oct 1 opening for deer in all areas of NY
I do not support cross bows
I do not support BP special season in September
I would also like to see the gun season to just a two week period.
I would also like the amount of deer you can take is One buck per person, you choose what you want to hunt with but you sure should not get a tag for each. ANd only does if the area has to many doe's, make it more than one hunter on a doe permit like it used to me unless you are a land owner etc.
I also do not like that someone can sign over tags to someone else. Had a hunt group from LI, that got all there friends to sign off tags for the upstate area were then never even planned to hunt so this hunting club could come into the area with over 20 tags signed over toi them. Brown was down from 40 lbs fawns and up.
Why does the DEc never go to online survey that are requiored to get new lic each year that would help them understand the amount of deer taken and what the hunters had found in there area from the prior season. the quewsts could be very simple such as:
did you hunt the prio season if yest go on to other question if no your all done.
what area did you hunt, how many days, how many total deer did you see in your hunt days, did you take a deer, if yes what was the deer, buck ( how many points, doe.
The dec system them would allow you to purchase your lic for the new year season. Data would be real and DEC could fine tune the amount of doe permits to a area.
Bill
Not sure why you didn't by the lifetime archery license as well. I have a lifetime Sportsman, muzzleloader and archery, and glad I bought them!
I hope Campdavid is wrong with what he says, but I fear that it may be the case.
Interesting that he uses the word resource. My fear is that this is a classic case of putting $$$ above the proper management of that resource.
If you need any proof as to how bad that outcome can be look at Kansas. What was once a hot bed for large whitetails now has a heard that is looking more like ours every day!
one nice thing about ny is bowhunters normally get the best part of the rut for most of the state, most years.
i'll bet my paycheck that w/ an earlier start date, we will lose the end of our season to muzzles or crossbows within a few years, if not immediately
i'm very skeptical that ny will just extend the bow season for free...
Bowhunters are in the minority, big time - so if there is any pushing to be done, I'm afraid the gun hunters would squash the bowhunters like an ant. Besides, that kind of diatribe is confrontational and creates the exact opposite of its intent.
I'm all for the Oct. 1 opener of archery season - and this is the important part - to better manage the deer herd.
Pressure on the DEC comes in many forms, but one, the 800 lb. gorilla in the room is the vast majority of people in the state who could care less if we hunt or not - that is until cute little Bambi grows up and becomes their hood ornament on their evening commute home from work.
Bottom line: If archers can be shown to be effective managers of the herd, (by harvesting more deer) then the DEC may consider shortening the gun season because from a DEC perspective its all about keeping the deer herd under control, and bowhunters must do better at demonstrating success.
Game managers primarily look at results, certainly not which hunting weapon we happen to prefer or is in fashion at any moment in time.
Managing hunting is a balancing act, and one that is difficult to tune. Look at Pa. They acted like Wally World price cutting, and after saying "yes" to the crossbow - rolled back the crossbow season last week to allow crossbows only in the first two weeks of the bow season!
And what was the real reason for the flipflop? Who knows? Was it politics, or was their some cautionary flags being raised by sane and logical voices in the Pa. Game Commission?
One - just one possible reason for "the Pa. rollback" might be that the crossbow will take away from gun hunting success by:
1. shooting more deer, and therefore fewer deer out there translates to a big drop in success during the regular guns season. 2. hunters picking up the crossbow spend their vacation time then, and not with a gun. Again, fewer deer taken during the gun season and overall.
3. with fewer deer, gun hunter satisfaction drops, hunter recruitment drops, and overall dissatisfaction - call it the "grumble factor" reaches deafening proportions from the deer hunters. And it is pretty bad right now in Pa.
New York will move much more cautiously, watching Pa. and N.J. make their mistakes first.
Actually, I think we as archers NEED an Oct. 1 opener to prove that we are a bonafide management tool.
In the last few years, deer hunters in New York state killed about 1/4 million deer. That's nearly 225,000 whitetails.
How many do bowhunters in NY successfully tag a deer annually? Only about 30,000. And muzzleloaders? About half of the bowhunter take. In 2007 it was a record take of just 17,000.
So if we were to vote by percentage of success in the field - killing deer (i.e. effective deer management tools) - let's see, the bowhunters would be 13% and the muzzleloaders 7% and the gunhunters - 80%.
We need a longer season to prove that we can better manage the deer herd and increase overall hunter and non-hunter satisfaction with NYS deer management program.
there's simply no way ny will extend the bowseason 2 more weeks without taking something in return. no way, no how.
To me, being out there is what it is all about. Yeah, pulling the trigger (releasing the arrow) is the climax, but I enjoy the whole ride.
And I like a nice long, long ride. ;0)
so our bow season will be cut in half by muzzleloaders, but hey, at least we'll be able to hunt in the 60 degree first week of october. hurray for us.
c/p from the E-A-B thread:
Among the items that could be proposed are an earlier opener to the archery season, as well as an early muzzleloader season.
The earlier kickoff to the Southern Zone archery season - New York Bowhunters is pushing for an Oct. 1 start - has been swirling among sportsmen already. And the early muzzleloader proposal may be similar to one that was widely opposed by hunters late in 2004 and ultimately scrapped.
But Hurst says DEC is looking at ways to achieve the desired antlerless deer harvest without doling out so many deer management permits to allow for low success rates in many wildlife management units.
“DMPs are our primary management tool in the Southern Zone, but success rates on DMPs run about 18-20 percent, and in some cases less than 10 percent,” he said. “So we have to issue a lot of permits. We'll talk about different options that will let us get the antlerless harvest that we need. There can be different ways of doing that, including altering opportunities for antlerless seasons.”
Hurst confirmed that an Oct. 1 archery opener in the Southern Zone “may be on the table,” as well as an early muzzleloader season. “That would also enhance the harvest,” he said.
i find it astonishing that the proposal was slammed by most bowhunters on this site, and now everyone seems to be jumping for joy about it.
This is giving us 17 more days right off the bat, but of course we all would want to see what their "final" plan is before we embrace it. I might get more/less excited about it then.
On one hunting show last week Tom Miranda (who's a pretty fair bowhunter) said
"The best chance to take a trophy w/tail buck is either very early in the season or very late during the rut."
Our bow camp of 35+ yrs has found that to be true. 4 out of 6 p&y were taken in the first week, while 2 were taken at the end of bow season. Last season the 2 best mature bucks were taken in the first 9 days of the season. I love to bowhunt the rut like everyone else but you can have success early also.
Lastly I have enjoyed learning/sharing my bowhunting passion for several yrs now on this site. I have found others here who share their knowledge and passion also. I suspect they are very good bowhunters. That's why I am suprised to see some who are posting take the "attitude" that they are the only "true believers" and should "talk down" sarcastically to anyone who disagrees with their position. Perhaps they don't realize they are doing it, but I believe doing that does not help anyone to embrace their position, but rather dismiss it.......Tom
Back a few years ago, the DEC had floated a trial balloon trying to put an early 'loader season in the bow season, right? And it was met with such negativity, that it was shelved.
The statewide AR proposal that was just shot down due to negativity, according to the DEC spokespeople reached a certain threshold or level.
I am not for any "trade" of early bow for a mid-season black powder, or whatever that earlier proposal was...but if the DEC wants more deer taken, without a lot of controversy, then they should just open the bow season early, straight up.
You have to admit that they were sensitive to the sportsman's interest in the AR debate, and the mid-season 'loader proposal. Right?
So why would the early bow process be any different?
Let's not be foolish and throw away an opportunity to expand our season, like it should have been all along, because we were afraid.
If the success rate drops any lower during the regular shotgun-rifle season, recruitment will go down the tubes. And if that happens, the DEC's management metrics are out the window - whether you agree with them or not.
While on the surface, one might think that an early 'loader season would result in more deer being killed, but the notion is actually counter-intuitive.
A large part of the reason up to 80% of the annual take is on the first day is because the deer are not spooked.
Put a 'loader season in front of the regular season and the take will drop 50%. Whitetails will have fled to safety zones on posted property and on the edges of towns and villages, and learned to hunker down.
Just listen to the shooting on opening day. Here, in Allegany County, the shooting peaks about an hour after first light, and then the shooting tails off because the deer reach safety areas and quit running.
I don't think the DEC will risk it, at this stage of the game. And I agree with Alltherage and the shooting of not only illegal bucks, but there will be another negative consequence, a lot of bruised landowners feelings who will have one more excuse to close down their land to hunting deer.
I know a few landowners who are right on the edge to closing their lands to hunting. And I can just hear them say, "Enough is enough! Enough shooting on my property with guns!"
One of the reason bowhunting is tolerated is because it is quiet and benign. Pickups full of hunters with in-lines that look like rifles is another story.
(And I hunt with a 'loader too!)
I don't think the DEC will move rashly in these times.
I agree with Rage and Buckstopshere.
An early Bow season would help get the numbers up, but there has to be a way to get the doe harvest up without an earn a buck regulation or the illegal tacking of bucks.
I for one try to take a few does here on Long Island each year. Maybe we can help the issue with out the DEC and fill as many doe tags when we can. Plus, it will absoultly help with the rut in certain areas.
After all, ultimately, hunting will be the answer.
if i sound elitist and anti-muzzle/gun i apologize. for the record i also hunt with a rifle, but the peacefulness and excitement of hunting unpressured deer during bow season is pretty sacred to me.
i guess the issue keeps coming back to trusting the dec to give 2 more weeks to the bow season w/out adding a muzzle season like before. you guys have much more confidence in the dec than me.
Some years when I am down in a hollow, I don't hear as many. And when up on a high ridge, then it sounds like there is a lot more shooting, from every direction.
The first shot is during pitch dark. Then as the light comes on, the rate starts picking up.
The last shots are in the dark, well after shooting light.
'Course it depends on the year, but usually I hear about 100 shots before 7:15.
If it is rainy and dark, like last year, then things don't get rolling until a little later in the morning.
But there is a definite crescendo to it, then the sounds of shooting tails off. Some years, here in Allegany County - 500 to 1,000 shots before 9 am.
Sacco, I agree with you, my archery season is sacred to me as well, but sound management should be what rules the day and I dont see that as being the case with an early muzzleloader season.
You asked for an early opening day for archery(10/1) and now it looks like the last week of archery season is under attack AGAIN.
To me, the best part of archery season is the last weekend in November. You can keep 10/1 if you ask me.
