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Does bottled scents go bad?


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Messages posted to thread:
Rix102 17-Oct-10
Dartondog 17-Oct-10
CTCrow 17-Oct-10
Rix102 17-Oct-10
Gene 17-Oct-10
Rix102 17-Oct-10
Rix102 17-Oct-10
Dartondog 17-Oct-10
daryl_94 17-Oct-10
nehunter 18-Oct-10
G-Man 18-Oct-10
CTCrow 18-Oct-10
MikeLeone 18-Oct-10
Dartondog 18-Oct-10
stickn' em hod 19-Oct-10
mgt.Hunter 19-Oct-10
CTCrow 19-Oct-10
Gregg Karal 19-Oct-10
Dartondog 19-Oct-10
G-Man 20-Oct-10
MikeLeone 20-Oct-10
Dartondog 20-Oct-10
vdaiuto 21-Oct-10










From: Rix102 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Oct-10


Hello all. While cleaning out some hunting stuff I had found an old bottle of buck scent and I wondered does it go bad or lose its potentcy?

From: Dartondog ........ One Violation Reported on this individual One Violation Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Oct-10
THIS VISITOR IS CURRENTLY UNDER WATCH FOR DISRESPECTFUL BEHAVIOR


Take a sniff and if your like me your nostrils will flair and you will get all crazy and you will start walking around the house like a Bull Moose in heat and the little lady better watch out. Seriously its probably not as good but comes in a dark bottle for a reason and all piss human and otherwise turns to ammonia when it breaks down.If it still smells just like the stuff thats fresh maybe use it with a little fresher stuff and make a mock scrap to use it up when the time is right.

From: CTCrow (mobile)Sent from Mobile Phone ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Oct-10


It does go bad. Well, not bad but it won't be as effective. I just found some year ol bottle too and I'm using it to put on the ground and step on it with my boots bout 100 yards before I get to my stand.

Ed

From: Rix102 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Oct-10


Thanks

From: Gene ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Oct-10


What I have read is that scents in plastic bottles will go bad or lose their potency much faster than those stored in glass bottles. How that actually affects the shelf life one way or the other (time wise) I don't know. It does make you wonder about how potent scents might be that have been sitting on a shelf in a store for who knows how long.

From: Rix102 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Oct-10


After taking sniff to me it still smells the same but then again I'm not a deer.

From: Rix102 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Oct-10


After taking sniff to me it still smells the same but then again I'm not a deer.

From: Dartondog ........ One Violation Reported on this individual One Violation Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Oct-10
THIS VISITOR IS CURRENTLY UNDER WATCH FOR DISRESPECTFUL BEHAVIOR


I would maybe go with the plastic bottle thing myself. I have had it left over in glass and it smelled OK and this year I found a Tinks 69 a year old in a squeeze bottle and it smells like estrous but weaker.For that matter if you smell regular doe urine to me it smells the same as doe estrous. I think the estrous part is just the phermones in it and it all smells the same. Buck piss is a little different. For any matter how do we know what we are getting is really pure and estrous etc. I mean to truly get estrous in a bottle you would need a lot of deer in heat and only collect it during the 48 hours or so they are actually in. So how does it show up on the shelves in August with a 2010 date. They have to either feed them hormones or something to make them go in and they would need a million captive deer all pissing to fuel the industry and sales. It must be sold by the millions each year. I purchased Wildlife reasearch Golden in August and it is the only one I think certified that it was bottled this year. Code Blue claims it is not a bunch of deer in a collection center but a single deer.

From: daryl_94 (mobile)Sent from Mobile Phone ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Oct-10


I had bought the code blue buck pee and another I can't think of the manufacturer but the code blue is clear on the scent stick where the other is brown kinda weird to me anyone have any input on that?

From: nehunter ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 18-Oct-10


Most of the scents sold in dept stores (Wal-Mart/Dicks, ect) are made from synthetics not real deer urine.

Synthetics will last a long time, but real deer urine will go bad in a short time because of the ammonia.

When I hunted in Iowa I stopped by Mrs. Doe Pee in Mt. Pleasant. He had fresh urine in dark bottles and they had to be kept refrigerated at all times.

I brought some home and it lost its potency in about 2 weeks.

Just a thought... Tinks #69 probably sells about 1 million bottles a Year, how many Deer would it take to fill all those?? Oh and its only when they are in "heat"! I don't think so.

From: G-Man ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 18-Oct-10


And how much fun would it be to collect all that urine from such tame, docile creatures as whitetail does?

Let alone the bucks?

From: CTCrow ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 18-Oct-10


CTCrow's Supporting Link

Interesting reading.

The deer urine market By Deerfarmer.com Jul 25, 2003, 17:31 It's enough to make dollar signs dance in the deer farmer's eyes. Let's see, a single deer pees about half a gallon or 64 ounces a day. Sold as deer-hunting scents at $4.00 to $13 per ounce (retail), that amounts to $256 to $832 a day or $93,440 to $303,680 per deer per year! Not a bad return on your investment! Too good to be true? Probably. A great opportunity for deer farmers? Maybe. At Deerfarmer.com, we get frequent inquiries about how to get into the deer urine market. In this article, we will examine this potential market - its opportunities, risks and production considerations. Hopefully, this will help you decide whether deer urine is a market you want to get into.

It all began with Mr. Richard, a Cobleskill, New York trapper who produced the first known deer scent in the 1940s. It was called Original Indian Buck Lure and he sold it through ads in outdoor magazines for $2 a bottle. It did not contain any deer urine.

Urine-based scents really got started in the 1960 when George Robbins, a Connellsville, Pennsylvania mink farmer founded the Robbins Scent Co. He began supplying urine in bulk and bottle to scent sellers who sold "secret" formulas and blends.

The market today for deer-hunting scents, most of them urine-based, is estimated to be about $18 million per year in the United States. Some 17 million Americans hunt white-tailed deer each fall, and are looking for every advantage they can get.

There are several reasons why deer scents are growing in popularity. Hunters typically do not have as much time as in the past to devote to shooting that trophy white-tail buck. Any "gimmick" that promises greater success - especially if it only costs $4 to $10 - is worth a try.

If you have ever hunted white-tailed bucks (I have), you know what an intelligent and cunning animal they are. Older, quality trophy bucks are very hard to bag. If they are hunted a lot, they develop very effective strategies to ensure they live past the hunting season. So deer scents are designed to appeal to their weaknesses for females, especially during the rutting season. My hunters (including myself) have seen doe-in-heat scents attract bucks.

Another reason for the growing use of deer scents is the boom in bow hunting. Bow hunters need to get close to their prey for good shots, and luring big bucks with the scent of a sexy doe is one way to do it.

Is there any empirical evidence that these scents are effective in attracting big bucks? Urine and glandular secretions help wild animals, including deer, find each other to mate, fight or, in the case of natural enemies, stay away. Whether they are effective coming out of a bottle is debatable. However, this is a mute point - enough people believe in the value of the product to keep on buying it. So the market keeps on growing.

Production If you want to produce deer urine to sell, how do you do it? Paul Carson of Kane, Pennsylvania has been in the business for 15 years. He produces and sells urine under the name of West Wind Whitetails & Scents.

According to Carson, the first important factor is to have tame deer. He bottle-raises all his fawns that will later provide the urine. This includes bucks. Tame bucks can be very dangerous during the rut, so remove their hard antlers for your own safety.

Mr. Caron's collection system is simple. He has raised buildings about 8 feet square. These buildings have slatted floors that allow the urine to fall through to the sub-floor which drains the urine into a pipe and then into a bucket. The urine is collected every morning and refrigerated.

He puts 2 does in overnight for a period of about 12 hours. They have all the water and feed they need. Two does can produce about a gallon and a half of pee in this time period. Since the deer regularly eat in the buildings, there is no stress to them. The floors are pressure washed regularly to keep them clean.

Mr. Carson found that by boarding up the buildings to make them darker causes the does to come into heat. This is one way that doe- in-heat urine can be collected earlier and be on the market for hunting season.

The collected urine is strained. Carson says paint filters from the local body shop are excellent. The urine is immediately refrigerated. He adds a preservative - sodium benzoate (same stuff as found in soft drinks). Much of the urine is stored in 5 gallon buckets and shipped to scent companies all over the USA by UPS. (Paul admits he gets some pretty funny looks when he declares to the UPS clerks what the contents are). Doe-in-heat urine currently sells from $70 to $100 per gallon.

Mr. Carson packages the rest of the urine into 2 or 4 oz high density plastic bottles to be sold under his West Wind brand name. These are sold to local sporting goods stores, over his website and via the phone. For a small operation, bottling can be easily done manually.

Marketing We strongly recommend that you secure your markets FIRST before you invest in any production capability.

The easiest route is to provide urine to established scent companies who have the marketing channels in place. Ideally, you can secure contracts to provide the urine in advance. Be sure you understand and can live with the terms of any agreements.

The other way to go is to market the products under your own brand name. There are many more factors to consider here. First, you will need to establish a strong brand name. Your packaging must be appealing, and labeling is important. According to Carson, your labels should be 4-color and also include scan codes.

You will also have evaluate and develop your distribution channels. Your choices are direct marketing or use of retailers. Sporting goods stores are the best choice for retailers. You will have to do a lot of visits to the stores, phone calls and give out many free samples. Your success with the retailers will depend on how well your products sell. You may also want to consider some cooperative marketing programs with your retailers to move your products off their shelves.

Direct marketing can be done through selling off your website, direct mail campaigns, ads in outdoor magazines, brochures, trade shows and so on. There is much more administration involved - taking orders, collecting payments, shipping the products out and related activities. You need to be properly set-up and staffed for direct marketing. Otherwise, poor service will kill your business very quickly.

What about your product line? Doe-in-heat seems to be the best seller. There is also regular doe pee, and dominant buck urine (buck-in-rut). The latter also seems to be growing in popularity. You may come up with some other products that fit well into your product line.

What about unique features? Some claim there scents are 100% natural. Others guarantee freshness. Some claim that their products are not watered-down. Some claim that their pee comes from genetically superior whitetails. Some say their urine comes from individual animals and is never mixed. How will you differentiate your deer scent products from the crowd?

Risks As with any business venture, the deer urine market has its risks. Here are some you should be aware of:

1. Competition - there are some big players with heavy advertising budgets in this market, e.g., Buck Stop Lure Co.'s Mate-Triks Original Doe-in-Heat Buck Scent, Wellington Outdoors' Tink's 69 Doe- in-Rut Buck Lure, and Pete Rickard's Love Potion No. Nine. In addition, there are probably many others smaller players in the market as well. (Paul Carson says business has never been better, so there still may be room for additional suppliers and products).

2. Opponents - PETA has been successful in getting deer urine products removed from some store shelves because of claims of animal cruelty. Don't even think of caging up your deer for long periods of time to collect urine. Practicing humane animal treatment and welfare will reduce this risk.

3. Scams - unfortunately, the industry has had a few scandals in the past where products were not what they were advertised to be - plain ammonia, cow urine, etc. being bottled and sold as deer scents. Deal with reputable companies, or if you are selling the product yourself, always be ethical and maintain your integrity.

4. Diseases - at least one hunter claims he got brucellosis from using deer urine. It is probably a good idea to collect urine only from TB and brucellosis tested and accredited herds. Now with the CWD issue, the animals should come from herds under CWD surveillance. Perhaps the industry needs to look at how to pasteurize the urine without reducing its effectiveness.

How to use the product There are several ways deer scents can be used. One is to pour some on your clothing to mask your own scent and to attract the bucks. This is NOT recommended because deer can be dangerous animals when in rut and can attack (nearly happened to me)!. Also as indicated above, deer urine is hardly a sanitary substance, and there is a risk of contacting brucellosis or some other disease. Besides, when you walk into the house, your wife is sure to throw you out!

Here are three recommended ways:

1. Drag line method - approximately 100 to 150 yards before you get to your hunting area, take a clean piece of cloth, saturate in scent, attach a string and drag the string behind you until you pass your hunting spot. Hang the cloth about 1 foot off the ground and then walk back to your hunting spot.

2. Cotton ball method - place 5 cotton balls in an empty film canister overnight with the scent. Locate these cotton balls around your hunting spot and about 1 foot off the ground so that the scent can circulate.

3. Sprinkle method - open the bottle of scent and sprinkle a few drops in several areas around your hunting spot. Be sure to sprinkle scent on a few low ground branches so that the scent can circulate.

Deer urine is a totally renewable, sustainable resource that may offer some revenue diversification for white-tailed (and mule) deer farmers. It is definitely worth checking out.

From: MikeLeone ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 18-Oct-10


Taste it to be sure, if it tastes like vinegar you should throw it out!

From: Dartondog ........ One Violation Reported on this individual One Violation Reported on this individual ....... Date: 18-Oct-10
THIS VISITOR IS CURRENTLY UNDER WATCH FOR DISRESPECTFUL BEHAVIOR


The guy that made the original Buck Lure made it from deer testicles mashed and mixed with tarsal glands soaked in glycerin etc.and fermented. I watched a show on a guy who still makes his homemade lure the same way.

From: stickn' em hod ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 19-Oct-10


I just got a shipment of urine in from West Wind Whitetails out of PA and the doe urine has a tinge of ammonia smell to it. Is it any good or should I return it.

From: mgt.Hunter ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 19-Oct-10


i seen that show too,made me cringe when he sliced them up and scraped them out.

From: CTCrow ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 19-Oct-10


Stick, just do what mike does. If it tastes like vinegar toss it or use it for salads :-)

From: Gregg Karal ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 19-Oct-10


just like when apple cider gets vinegary, it tastes better. I would use it as a marinade for your favorite venison chops

From: Dartondog ........ One Violation Reported on this individual One Violation Reported on this individual ....... Date: 19-Oct-10
THIS VISITOR IS CURRENTLY UNDER WATCH FOR DISRESPECTFUL BEHAVIOR


I bought some attractant from Team Fitzgerald one year it was suopposed to be synthetic doe urine. It cost about $9.00 and I could have saved $8.50 and just used 50 cents worth of ammonia from my moms cleaning supplies. All piss is ammonia based when it disintagrates or decomposes I guess is a better word. I think it was a total rip off. They sold it based like this so it was not from spoilage .Also they sold Vanilla Killa for the same price and any grocery store would sell you some Vanilla Extract for cheap. I can tell you this a Buddy this year killed a deer that came from down wind and he was using vanilla attractant. I had success with Acorn Rage spray bomb. The ammonia stuff is either old or they are trying to do the same thing the Fitzgeralds did which in my opinion was a rip off. Have you ever smelled ammonia in a bucks ground scrap? I havent.I tried it but in the end thought it would scare deer and threw it away.

From: G-Man ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 20-Oct-10


Like about everyone these days, i've been using pads, drags and wicks for a while. Never noted any particular attraction, even with trail cam aimed at a wick left in place overnight. One thing i do try to do is not just drag the scent up to my stand, but pour the scent on the drag on the very spot i want to shoot them, then drag it out along various paths, criss-crossing the area with scent trails but it is always strongest right in my shooting lane. Can't see much point in leaving the strongest area of scent where the drag hit the ground 150 yards away.

The only time i definitely could PROBABLY associate scents with attracting bucks, i had dabbed code blue estrous on a Montana decoy doe, and had two big monsters come in a minute after legal light, and hang back about 50 yards, but they were absolutely fixated on the deke until they made me and hustled back into the woods a bit. Did they see her or smell her? I played snort tag with them for 5 minutes but eventually they just stopped responding and left. Couldn't get them back. coulnd't have shot them anyway.

Grant Woods, a noted deer biologist, recommends peeing in the scrapes yourself, saving the entire $9.00. Of course, he also recommends against hunting over scrapes, since 85% of all visits occur at night.

The makers of urine scents claim there is a freshness factor, but they are clearly not disinterested parties.

So what the hell. It SEEMS like a logical thing to do, and i PERCEIVE that it gives me some advantage, or at least doesn't compromise my hunt. So, i'll keep using them.

From: MikeLeone ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 20-Oct-10


I have definately had good bucks come into check out #1Doe-P scent twice. Though this morning two bucks walked right past it and could care less. I checked my records, when it worked (and I brought the bucks home) was Nov 13, Nov 6.

I think timing has a lot to do with the sucess of scents

From: Dartondog ........ One Violation Reported on this individual One Violation Reported on this individual ....... Date: 20-Oct-10
THIS VISITOR IS CURRENTLY UNDER WATCH FOR DISRESPECTFUL BEHAVIOR


I agree with the timing. I think estrous if used to early just scares the other ladies away.They dont want to be near a doe in heat if the boys are going to harass and chase her. I also think it works better on young horny bucks then wise old timers.I think this would be a factor in an area where there is way more ladies then bucks.When the Rut comes the boys will be where the ladies are. Pre rut is best in my opinion around the last week of this month into the rest of November and second rut in December.I have bow killed a deer that walked nose to the ground on my scent trail once and once shot one during gun this way.Both younger deer. I also had one turn around and walk back upwind to a doe estrous candle lantern and was sniffing it when I pulled the trigger of my release and this was my biggest bow buck ever a nice 8 PT.

From: vdaiuto ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 21-Oct-10


mrs.doe pee figured out a way to freeze dry the pee then re-use for bottle . always keep it in the fridge when not useing it so it doesnt loose its potency .




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