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got the new wva game&fish mag. in the mail about 1/4 of it has article about x-bows i know alot of you guys dont like them not sure why. i dont have a problem with them. but i would say next year or two they will be legal here.i pray that i can hunt with my bow till the day i leave this world. ive never shot one have no desire to but i dont have a prob. with those who do....
Glad I didn't renew my subscription.
Crossbow article aside, WV G&F has to be the worst magazine with the most repetative cookie cutter articles.
No problem with crossbows per se, but they ARE NOT bows and as such do not belong in archery season--that's the problem!
Well I agree Dave. But they will be in our season before long. Can't see guys using them in rifle season when they can use a rifle. The DNR could get them a season right in the middle of bow season like the rifle hunters got this year.
While at my local pro shop today, the were encouraging everyone to sign a petition to legalize them...with a chance to win a new x-bow.....Its coming i believe..
Just a ploy to get signatures. Amazing the stunts some will try to use. Its all about the money.
I'm glad some still see bowhunting as the challenge it was meant to be.
"I'm glad some still see bowhunting as the challenge it was meant to be."
Well put!
I agree with you Lil Bear.
i still see it that way and have said before hope i can hunt with a bow till i cant hunt anymore but if you dont like a xbow dont use one if you own land or lease dont let anyone use one. but if someone does use one why get mad at them(?). you can use a highpower rifle in spring gobbler season i dont i use a bow or shotgun i like the challange more than braggin but those who do i dont bash....just wondering why all the hateing
I haven't read one hateful word in the posts above. Simply people expressing their opinons that Xbows aren't archery equipment.
Holding a rifle stock, looking through a scope, and pulling a trigger is not bow hunting.
I hope that WV DNR does not allow crossbows during bow season. For those of us who hunt mostly public land, it would ruin bow season.
How many have ever used a crossbow? I never have but would consider trying one. I can promise you for every positive or "easier" thing about them their is a negative or more "difficult" part as well. In my opinion once you start black balling one tool over another that is when the ANTI's have us right where they want us. I know a lot of archers that dont consider anything but long bows or recurves archery equipment. I know people who shoot flintlocks that despise percussion and dont dare say "Inline" muzzleloaders. There are people who are going to dislike anything but what they believe to be the right way. I cant see how crossbows are going to ruin hunting on public land or ruin archery season. Will there be more people in the woods...maybe. Dont we always say we want to introduce new people to the outdoors. Well here we go or do we just want to introduce only the ones that see it our way. I dont know, just a rant. The problem doesnt lie with the method in which we harvest game the problem lies with the amount of game we harvest. Probably off base but again I see nothing wrong with them.
James
Well I see some posts here that don't mind crossbows. I honestly think there are more people that want them than dont and if the DNR thinks they can sell a crossbow tag then it will pass. We already have rifle hunters during our bow season. Crossbows will be the same. They will be allowed during our bow season. I guarantee it. You will never see them during gun season when guys can use a gun. We will just lose more days to another weapon. Again, thw bowhunters that want them are outnumbered.
I still don't understand why we don't have a hand grenade season? It could really attract lots of new people to the outdoors. No practicing needed, just toss it in the general vicinity of the deer. Good thing that starting next year we can kill 2 a day.
I still don't understand why we don't have a hand grenade season? It could really attract lots of new people to the outdoors. No practicing needed, just toss it in the general vicinity of the deer. Good thing that starting next year we can kill 2 a day.
Can you imagine how many gun hunters will take to the woods during "archery" season if they can just buy a crossbow, sight it in at 50 yards or so and hit the woods the next day! Don't think that is not realistic. Over 25 years ago I shot a compound crossbow a guy from my church had. No scope, just three fixed sight pins up front (20, 40, and 60 yards)and an aperture sight on the back. In less than 30 minutes I was busting a styrofoam coffee cup at 60 yards with it. NOT archery gear. Nobody could do that even with the most high tech compound and release in 30 minutes after just picking it up. Once they allowed everybody to have crossbows who wanted them in Ohio everything changed in archery season. We do not want that here, but money talks. In Ohio (crossbows were legalized while I lived there)manufacturers poured tons of money into the pockets and campaign funds of politicians and got it through. They'll do the same here if they can. Folks, believe me, we don't want that!
mudflap that what i am trying to say i dont see how they can ruion archery season.you dont want you to loose days corect me if im wrong but caint you BOWHUNT EVERY DAY the season is in regardless if gun is in or not. like i said befor legal or not im stickin with my bow. litte bear i never said they were archery exp. there was no hateful words but its not hard to see ALLOT OF PEOPLE dont LIKE THEM.just wonder why if its not for you ok....
Same ole every year. Each should have his option as to what he/she would like to hunt with. Each weapon has its advantages and disadvantages. Forty (40) years ago the same argument was used against the compound and they are a much newer weapon than the crossBOW. The crossbow shoots slower and casts worse than my 12 year old compound, which I no longer hunt with as I prefer the more traditional route of a recurve. Also 40 years ago it you went into the woods with a bow you were pretty much laughed at. Why not say you can only hunt small game with a .22 rimfire and not a shotgun, because it is easier to kill with the shotgun. Comparing a crossbow with a gun is like comparing a casket with condum neither can be compared within reason.
Too funny gobbler. I get tired of saying we need to get more people into hunting.
I think the crossbow is easier to use than a compound or else everyone wouldn't want to use one.
Thats what we need, more people hunting...its hard enough to find places to hunt now
Again this topic will divide families and friends. Myself I still say it doesnt matter what you hunt with you are only allowed to harvest what the DNR tells you. Be it hand grenades or sling shots your bag limit is your bag limit. Crossbows have been around since like 5th century bc, a few years before compounds or even rifles. So if they were so easy to use wouldnt they have already been a popular hunting weapon and already have a season? I am probably just to young to understand. Enjoy what ever method you like, season is almost here. I will be perched high above with my 320fps compound bow enjoying my time in the woods.
James
I personally don't have a problem with them. I have no problem with anyone's personal choice of weapon so long as that weapon is being used legally and ethically. I choose to not use one, but I WILL NOT look down upon someone who does choose to use one. To me, they're a lot like a muzzleloader in that you get one shot, then you have to go thru all kinds of gyrations to reload/recock them, and I sure can't see doing that from a treestand if you miss.
Below is some crossbow history. They've been around a LONG time.
6th Century B.C. The earliest known handheld crossbows are unearthed in two tombs found in East China.
5th Century B.C. The earliest reasonably reliable date for the crossbow in the Greek world.
500-300 B.C. Sun Tzu’s influential book, The Art of War, refers to the use of crossbows.
341 B.C. Earliest reliable record of the use of the crossbow in warfare at the Battle of Ma-ling in China, also famous for first use of the illusion of retreat-and-ambush to gain the upper hand in battle.
228 B.C. Earliest factual evidence in the form of a bronze lock mechanism from the tomb of Yu Wang.
400 A.D. Evidence of use as war instrument in the Mediterranean.
4th-7th Centuries A.D. Reliefs on structures in Roman Gaul show crossbows used for hunting.
947 Belgian attack on Senlis near Paris driven off by crossbowmen.
986 Lock bows are used in the Battle of Hjorungsvag, Norway.
1000 The crossbow comes into wide use in pageantry, crossbow clubs and among royalty.
11th Century The rail or tiller is grooved to hold a bolt.
1066 Crossbows are likely used in the Battle of Hastings, and may have been the weapon that killed English King Harold, a pivotal point in the battle with the Normans.
1139 Pope Innocent II condemns and forbids the use of the crossbow by Christians against Christians by saying they are “deathly and hateful to God and unfit to be used among Christians.”
1180 Mardi bin Ali al-Tarsusi of the Middle Eastern Ayyubid Dynasty records the different types of crossbow and the use of the belt and claw for spanning, also called cocking.
1199 English King Richard I The Lion Heart, who had found a loophole in the Pope’s decree against the crossbow, is killed by a crossbow in a battle at Chalus, France.
1st Half of 13th Century Matthew Paris, English chronicler and monk, illustrates crossbows.
13th Century The stirrup is introduced for cocking crossbows.
1277 200,000 bolts are ordered by the English for use in campaigns in Wales.
1346 English longbowmen defeat a force of 6,000 Genoese crossbowmen at the Battle of Crecy in Northern France during the Hundred Years’ War.
Mid-14th Century Crossbows now can cast bolts approximately 200 yards.
1387 Book of the Hunt, a treatise on hunting by Gaston Phoebus, includes crossbow technique.
1435 Record of the cranequin, a rack-and-pinion device for cocking, is used by the English army in Rouen, France.
1480 In England, crossbow prices are set at no more than 3 shillings, 4 pence.
1486 Leonardo DaVinci designs a giant crossbow that would have been more than 80 feet across.
16th Century Stonebows, two-stringed crossbows to shot stones or baked clay, become popular, especially for bird hunting.
16th Century Record of first crossbows made specifically for target shooting.
1503 First of many laws in English restricting use and possession of crossbows.
Mid-16th Century Highly decorated, heavy-draw-weight crossbows are used widely for deer and boar hunting in Europe.
18th Century The Chinese develop a self-loading, repeating crossbow.
1901 Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey, military author and engineer, shoots a 16th century crossbow 450 yards.
1956 The International Armbrust Union, now called the International Crossbow Shooting Union, is formed as the governing body for crossbow target competition.
1958 Alpine Crossbows, founded by Bernard Barnett, begins production in England’s West Midlands. The company, now known as Barnett Crossbows, later moved to the United States.
1969 A very young Bernard Horton appears on Welsh national television showing off his latest creation.
1969 Holless Wilbur Allen is granted a patent for the compound bow.
1973 Arkansas makes crossbows legal during bow seasons. Wyoming had always allowed crossbows during archery season.
1976 Ohio legalizes crossbow hunting in bow seasons.
1970-’80s Crossbow hunting pioneers, like Ottie Snyder of Ohio, Bill Hilts Sr. of New York, Bill Troubridge of Ontario, Canada, and David Barnett of Florida, champion crossbow hunting in archery seasons.
1981 Barnett International opens a factory in Odessa, Florida.
1982 PSE introduces the popular Crossfire compound crossbow.
1984 Barnett International introduces the Thunderbolt compound crossbow.
1984 Proline introduces the ZX-7 compound bow.
1986 Tom Jennings, pioneering developer of the compound bow, releases the Jennings Devestator crossbow.
September 1998 Bobby L. Beeman takes the Safari Club world record non-typical Northwestern whitetail deer with a crossbow. It scores 281 4/8 inches.
2000 Barnett sells more than a million crossbows.
January 2010 PSE unveils the TAC-15 crossbow, which uses an AR-15 lower as its trigger group and stock.
November 2011 Jerry Bryant takes the world record crossbow deer, a 304 3/8-inch, 37-point Illinois buck called the Bryant Giant. Bryant was allowed to use a crossbow in Illinois thanks to a medically disabled-hunter permit.
November 2004 Brad Jerman takes the Safari Club International world record typical whitetail deer with a crossbow. It scores 206 1/8 inches and is also the Ohio state record for any weapon.
November 2004 The Bryant Buck is accepted as the second largest whitetail deer ever taken by a hunter, according to the Boone & Crockett Club.
2005 Seven U.S. states allow crossbow hunting archery seasons.
September 2005 William Brown takes the world record pronghorn antelope with a crossbow. It scores 77 2/8 inches Safari Club International.
April 2005 Amid support and criticism, archery’s Pope and Young Club rejects crossbows as a legitimate hunting bow.
May 2006 Gordon Scott takes the world record North American bison with a crossbow. It scores 65 7/8 inches SCI.
September 2006 Jake Carter takes the world record typical Rocky Mountain elk with a crossbow. It scores 362 7/8 inches SCI.
March 2007 State Rep. Cy Thao, with crossbow proponent Daniel James Hendricks as spokesman, introduces a bill in the Minnesota Legislature to allow crossbows in firearm, bear and turkey season. It passes, and also allows physically disabled hunters to use them.
October 2007 Ken Loya Jr. takes the world record black bear with a crossbow. The bear scores 20 13/16 inches SCI.
April 2008 Stan E. Christianson takes the world record Eastern wild turkey with a crossbow. The turkey scores 49 2/16 inches SCI.
June 2008 The Archery Trade Association adopts a policy that states, “Crossbows are viable shooting and hunting equipment.”
2009 Inventor James Kempf receives a patent on a Reverse Draw Technology crossbow.
August 2010 Then-chancellor Vladmir Putin uses a crossbow to shoot an endangered gray whale for research purposes.
March 2011 The Illinois General Assembly fails to pass a bill to allow crossbow hunting for people younger than 62 and those without a handicap.
August 2011 Nebraska, Indiana and parts of New York allow crossbows in archery seasons, bringing the number of pro-crossbow states to 18.
2011 Crossbows sales rise 70 to 80 percent in five years, according to the ATA.
Read more: http://www.gameandfishmag.com/2012/07/20/a-look-at-crossbow-history/#ixzz23dCG6Aek
If crossbows were legal equipment during archery season there IS NO DOUBT that archery season would end up being shortened because of the increased harvest.
There is a finite number of deer in the state. It is NOT an unlimited resource. With the new management plan calling for a reduced deer population, If you throw in tens or hundreds of thousands additional crossbow hunters into archery season the DNR would have no other choice than to shorten the season to limit the harvest because at least for now they appear unwilling to lower the bag limit.
I agree gobbler but where else would they put them? They won't be used during rifle season. I think they will let them use them during bow season or give them an extra season during our bow season like they did the rifle season.
I agree gobbler but where else would they put them? They won't be used during rifle season. I think they will let them use them during bow season or give them an extra season during our bow season like they did the rifle season.
Why do they have to put them anywhere? Just because there is a weapon dosen't automatically mean they have to create a season for it. Otherwise we would have a special spear season, a knife season, etc.
If they absoultely have to have one, lump it with the LATE muzzleloading season and call it a primitive season. But that's not what they want. They want to be able to use it during archery season. They want to be able to pick up a scoped, triggered weapon that you hold like a rifle and requires minimal, if any, practice and hunt during archery season.
They have all their talking points about history, having limbs like a now, having a string like a bow, and shoots a projectile like an arrow, they don't mention that you hold it and shoot it like a gun. They are not a bow, they are a crossbow, and they are different.
No doubt,It sure has ruined the deer hunting in ohio. I noticed in longbeards history of crossbow ohio has had them since 1976.HOPPIES56
That is comparing apples to oranges. Ohio has a 1 buck limit. We have a 3 buck limit.
We're not going to win the crossbow fight no matter how bad some want to. Sooner or later(and most likely sooner) it's going to happen. When that time comes, we need to push for tighter harvest limits and other controls. We need to figure out how to make it work so that it best benefits ALL hunters, no matter what their weapon of choice may be.
And for that matter, whether you hunt with a rifle, crossbow, recurve, longbow or compound, you can still only kill the same number of bucks.
Folks were screaming the same thing when compounds took the place of recurves and longbows.
I don't remember the big uproar over compounds. I started off with a longbow, then a recurve because that was all that there was. Of course we didn't have Internet and there were very few bowhunters compared to the number today. The only groups were usually a few guys in the back of somebodies garage where they had a little bow shop. Maybe it's just me, but I don't remember everybody complaining about compounds. In fact, it was just the opposite, most everyone I remembered welcomed them with open arms.
yes and i remember when in line muzzleloaders with scopes where going to ruin the deer hunting , too Well that sure didnt happen either.i sure dont remember compounds being welcome with open arms.hoppies56
so gobbler,you are saying if wv had one buck limit, crossbows would not effect deer herd. hoppies56
"why do they have to put them anywhere"? $$$$$$$$$
"why do they have to put them anywhere"? $$$$$$$$$
If not for compounds, we would not have 1/2 the bowhunters we have today, maybe not a 1/3. Compounds made bowhunters out of people that would have never bowhunted in there life. I also started with a stick bow and use one to this day along with a compound. I use both. If x bows are leagle for anyone who wants to hunt with one the number of hunters during the archery season will explod like they did when compounds hit in the 70's and early 80's. I know compounds have been around longer than that, but that is when they exploded on the market. With the number of tags we get today IF the dnr would leave it the way it is now the deer heard would be almost gone in 2 to 3 years. I have nonthing against handicap hunters using them but a healthy person, I do not think should be allowed to hunt with one, used as archery equipment. I do think we will see them leagle in the very near seasons, for anyone that wants them. I hope I am wrong but I don't think I am. I think we are fighting a loosing battle to keep them out of the hands of healthy people, but I will fight against healthy people using them to the end.
Giving them a crossbow season and then reducing the number of buck tags would defeat the purpose of the DNR. They want to sell tags. They can't sell tags by letting them use it during the gun or mz. season. Guys won't use them then. They will use them in the bow season however. If the DNR makes money on the crossbow tags only to give it back by taking away a buck kill it will defeat the purpose. As much as I hate to say this and preach this on here we are managed for money. Not many guys would hunt with a knife or spear because it would be too much work so we won't see those seasons. Plus the antihunters won't allow that but we will see a crossbow season. And gobbler is right. Ohio only has a one buck limit. Idaho has one deer limit. I love that but It wouldn't fly here. And if the hunter numbers are the same I bet that the mz kill is more each year since they allowed the scopes and inlines than it was for primitive rifles. JMO.
Maybe with all those additional hunters you could your one and done. It is a bow so it should be used during archery season. Crossbows have not wiped out the deer herd or really reduced the number of deer in the states where they are legal so I don't think it will here. Many who want to ban the crossbow have never shot one and have little idea about the casting of the bolts. Like I said before my old compound will shoot flatter and have less pin gap than the crossbow. Just because it is not your way is no reason to try to stop others. Like I said before I still use the traditional equipment and have no desire to hunt with a crossbow unless I am unable to use my recurve, but I can see no logical reason for me to stop someone else from using a crossbow when they become legal for all.
Hoppie, I think there is more to it. For example, we have a much higher percentage of the population that hunts than Ohio does. Plus, our deer need 4-5 years to reach the size an Ohio buck can do in 2-3 years. A lot of our deer herd is mast dependent and dosen't have the corn and bean crops Ohio deer do.
Gobbler, if you don't recall the oppistition to the the compound when they first became popular evidently you didn't attend any NFAA field shoots, indoor spot shoots or 900 rounds. Local archery clubs in Ohio and western West Virginia was pretty much in a uproar about the new compound bow that shot like a rifle with sights and release (even though the release were rope and held with the thumb)and had that 25% let off and could be held forever.
You're right, I didn't attend any of those. I grew up in a little coal town in Mercer county. I was busy hitch- hiking to work after school and on weekends so I could go to college. The only bow shop I knew of was in a guys garage in Princeton. There were no archery clubs that I knew of, and if there were I couldn't have afforded it anyway. I barely had the spare money to buy a bear kodiak and a few arrows to rabbit hunt with. There were no deer there back then and I had no way to get to greenbrier or Pocahontas county where there were any deer. So, no I didn't hang out in western WV or Ohio where apparently there was quite the uproar over compound bows. Had I known, I would have done my best to try to get there to voice my opinion.
As I sit hear reading everyones on crossbows and if it is or isn't archery equipment I believe everyone is entitled to his opinion I mean after all this is America but I hope to never have to use one but if it comes to use one or sit on the couch I guess I will be asking for advice on witch brand to buy on a positive note I did see a six year old shoot a nice 8 point on the outdoor channel with one witch I thought was cool I guess we could introduce the youth a little sooner and the other positive if they were legal maybe all the 22 bow kills that don't get counted for would be checked in and the numbers would be more accurate
If you give a kid a crossbow as his first bow I don't think they will want to shoot a real bow. If I can't bowhunt I am going to rifle hunt. I only bowhunt now but used to rifle hunt. I would use a mz. JMO. And to say we should let people use what they want is fine with me as long as it is not in the bow season.
I am not sure I understand everyone's concern with this? I love to bowhunt but feel that arguing over something like this hurts the sport more than it could ever help it. Everyone on this site hunts within the regulations (at least I hope) by either killing 3 spikes, hunting for 1 mature buck, or anything in between... The point is it is all legal. So, if crossbows become legal.... if they reduce the buck limit.... if they increase the cost of nonresident licenses... WE are still goin to hunt within the rules that are set. The same outlaws that poach deer out of season, kill more deer than they are supposed to, don't check deer in, etc etc are still going to be the biggest problem we have. I know everyone has an opinion on how to create revenue, but we need a way to employ more dnr officers to enforce whatever rules are in place more than anything.
Sometimes I feel like everyone on here is preaching to the choir because we will follow the rules whether we personally agree with them or not.
I don't have a problem with them. My thought is if you are going to have someone in the woods shooting at stuff, at least allow them the best opportunity to kill what they are shooting at. Same reason I'm OK with scopes & inlines on muzzleloaders. Not saying any other kind of bow is not a lethal humane killing machine but it also depends on who's hands it's in. Some guys pull their bow out of the closet the weekend before the season opens, barely shoot it & hit the woods. These are the same guys who cripple a lot of deer. These are the guys who will shoot the x-bow. Only now they will kill it, take it home & be done instead of crippling 2 or 3 before recovering 1 & taking it home. Shoot either and cut us back to 1 or 2 bucks a year across ALL seasons.
Maryland approved hunting with crossbows during the entire bow season a couple of years ago. We are allowed an unlimited number of antlerless deer and 3 bucks. Previously we were allowed to kill 9 bucks (all weapon groups combined) and upwards of unlimited antlerless deer with a bow. We can archery hunt from Sep 9 on thru Jan 31st and we still have tons of deer. I see way more bow hunters in the woods than crossbow hunters. I wouldnt lose sleep worrying about crossbow hunters a whole lot.
Its against the law to use an Atlatl in archery season too.Its way more primative and shoots a arrow like dart.Its also hard to use.But we want an easy to use with hardly any skill to kill weapon. I knew that once crossbows were made legal for those who can;t shoot a bow that more and more able hunters would bellyache to use one also.
Anything for a deer I guess
Anyone care to venture a guess how long it would take to decimate the big buck population in the 4 ARCHERY counties if crossbows were legal on ARCHERY season.?
Oh they won't allow it in those counties
How are they going to tell the residents of 4 counties they can't do something the other 51 can IF is is DEEMED ARCHERY equipment?
i think i do want.one i want the one chewbacka used in starwars you can kill a deer an cook it at the same time...
Our job is to understand the crossbow and its limitations. We should not expect the crossbow to do more than it was intended — and that is simply to be a reliable hunting companion.
Crossbows, by design, are not that complicated. In the simplest terms, a crossbow is nothing more than a smaller vertical bow attached to a stock. On a technical level, crossbows are different from vertical bows in several ways. The arrows used are shorter, and crossbows have a much shorter power stroke. Even though crossbow arrows and arrows shot from modern compounds travel at comparable speeds, the ballistic characteristics and attributes of the two are as different as night and day and bring their own their unique limitations and challenges to the hunting field. Although gaining in popularity and acceptance, the modern crossbow remains somewhat of a novelty to the general hunting public. With that said, there are certain things about crossbows that should be understood to achieve optimum performance in the field. 1. They are Short-Range Tools More so than vertical bows, crossbows are short-range hunting instruments. The maximum recommended range by just about every crossbow manufacturer is 40 yards, with 25 to 30 yards considered optimum. When hunting, that is a critical rule to live by. There are reasons for that, including the crossbows short power stroke and the short, light arrows used. We could talk about specifics and comparisons all day long, but the bottom line is: Compared to heavier and longer arrows from vertical bows, crossbow arrows drop like a rock and lose energy quickly after leaving the rail. What’s more, they do not stabilize well at long range. It takes energy to kill game at long distances, and crossbow arrows simply do not have it.
Cantering is when one limb of a crossbow is held lower than the other, and it is a common problem for novice shooters and even experienced shooters at times in hunting situations. If you canter the bow to the left, the arrow will hit left and most likely high or low depending upon the range. If you canter to the right, the arrow will hit right, and again high or low depending upon range. For optimum and consistent accuracy, crossbow limbs must be level when the trigger is pulled. Cantering is rarely a problem while sighting in or practicing off a rest or bench, but off-hand shooting in hunting situations compounds this problem. This is especially true when sitting, because the inside limb has a natural tendency to drop as we swivel to get into shooting position. To cure this problem, practice shooting as often as possible from different positions. Concentrating on keeping those limbs parallel with the ground is the best way to eliminate the problem. 9. Real-Life Practice is Important This advice rings true for any type of deer hunting: Practice the way you hunt, and hunt the way you practice. Crossbow arrows equipped with fixed-blade or expandable broadheads do not fly as fast or on the same trajectory as arrows equipped with field points. Expandable heads are close, but there is still a difference. To be absolutely sure how a crossbow will perform with a hunting head, it is important to practice with that same head at various yardages. This means with the same exact arrows and broadheads of the same style and weight. After sighting in with a field tip, changing to a hunting head will tell us whether adjustments have to be made. Some will be minor tweaks; others will be more complicated. It is best to make those corrections before hitting the deer woods. Also, keep in mind that crossbow arrows lose speed and drop quickly. If you will be hunting from elevated stands, practice shots from the same height.
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/deer-hunting-gear/crossbow?et_mid=574917&rid=232347646
The same way they tell guys they can't rifle hunt in those counties. They will just pass a law.
I still say crossbows are easier to hunt with. For one thing, you don't have to draw while the game is present. Most guys can't even nock an arrow unless the use a string or a crank. Heck I even saw one the other day that automaticallyu drew the arrow with CO2. But since according to this article above, compounds are superior we won't need the crossbow season.
It's not that easy to get a law like that passed. The rifle/bow issue is a management decision based on deer population. Keeping crossbows out of those counties AFTER it was declared as a legal weapon during archery season is a whole different ballgame. It would be denying a group of citizens a privlege the other citizens of the state has. It would be next to impossible to pass a law like that in my opinion. There would be lengthy court battles over it.
General crossbow hunting during archery season would destroy the trophy buck hunting in those counties in 2-3 years.
I see your point. I just don't see them doing away with the bow only counties
I think it is just a matter of time til we have crossbows legal for anyone. I just hope they do it like ohio does it. They have a separate crossbow season. Sure it runs the same as bow season but when you check in your deer you check it in as a crossbow kill and not a bow kill. That way they are not counting the total kill as bow kills but as bow kills and crossbow kills.
The WVBA asked for that and received that from the DNR here for the disabled crossbow permits here. There is a seperate check-off on the check-in tags for crossbow kills.
There will be fewer hit deer that are lost once crossbows are approved.
There will be more deer killed . Period
Don't think the crossbow will wipe out the deer herd in West Virginia. It hasn't wiped the herd out in Ohio that you brag about and their deer limit is six (6) in areas. Sure one buck, but 5 does also.
Passthrough, does that mean that they are more efficient weapons than a hand held vertical bow, or that crossbow users are more ethical hunters unwilling to take questionable shots?
I would also like to see the references to back up your claim.
i say within 5 years it will be upon us...if not sooner.
To each his own..The trad guys were probably screaming about this back when compounds came out too, and we've learned to get along, for the most part with each other...
As for the bow only counties...with this state and its hunger for $$, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold a $100 crossbow stamp or something off the wall like that for those 4 counties,LOL......
Only time will tell..
we will have a crossbow season and it will require an extra tag. It will be in our bow season. That way the DNR can require an extra tag. It won't be used during rifle season because will use the rifle without having to buy a tag. That is just common sense. JMO. We will see
I just saw a crossbow commercial and it showed a 5 year old shooting one . One shot in the bullseye. At least the kids will be able to use them.
That's amazing! I thought they a lot harder to use than a handheld vertical bow.
Yea me too. But we can take our 5 year old kids with us now to kill a buck. Or 3. Lol
If you get it fully understood let Us know. LOL
Gobbler, sorry for delay in response. Been away from the pooter for a while. My reference point is solely my experience. I've killed maybe 40 deer with compound bows, but realize that I will never be Robin Hood. I limit myself to close (25 yards) shots at broadside deer. A friend asked me to shoot his crossbow when they became legal in Md. in 2010. First shot was dead center bull at 30 yards. So were the next several. I bought one of my own and easily killed the 4 pointer I shot at. In 2011 I used only the compound and killed a buck. We can only take one buck in this part of state so I was done for the year. Planning to use crossbow when our season opens Sept. 7. Late in 2010 I checked with several sporting goods stores and they said the legalization of crossbows did not result in a big upswing in sales of those bows. I wasn't surprised. I had contended all along that anybody wanting to use a crossbow had already found a way to do so via a doctor's signature on the proper application. They are very accurate pieces of equipment. I have shot mine as far as 45 yards with great groups. It is like shooting a little rifle with a short range. Here is an interesting number from the fall of 2011. Of the 1,154 bucks killed by bowhunters in Garrett/Allegany through Nov. 25, 477 fell to arrows flung from crossbows.
This hunting season, don't let some one arm push up, loud mouth know it all, self proclaimed superman, dillusional Grizzly Adams tell you what to kill, what to shoot or what to shoot it with!! Hunting is a RIGHT!, so that gives you right to do it however you choose with what you choose by the laws in the areas you hunt!!! Happy BLOODTRAILS everyone!!!
Thanks pass through.
Could someone show me where in the state or federal laws where hunting is a right? The bill of rights? Constitutional amendments? Somewhere other than in someones mind that it is a right and not a privlege??
This hunting season, don't let some one arm push up, loud mouth know it all, self proclaimed superman, dillusional Grizzly Adams tell you what to kill, what to shoot or what to shoot it with!! Hunting is a RIGHT!, so that gives you right to do it however you choose with what you choose by the laws in the areas you hunt!!! Happy BLOODTRAILS everyone!!!
Definition of the dnr. You just explained it and you are doing it aren't you.
So almost 1/2 of the deer in Garrett/Allegheny count were killed with xbow? I think that is significant. Crossbows are here we just don't know it yet. The commercial I saw touted the xbow as a weapon that lil kids and grandpa could use to extend their season. That means they want it in bow season. I am past worrying about it. Not worth it.
These are Md. DNR numbers from the annual deer reports.
In 2009, when only vertical bows were legal, 1,188 deer were killed during the archery season in Garrett County.
In 2010, when crossbows were legal for everybody, 1,171 deer were killed during the archery season in Garrett County.
I'm sure there are nuances involved, but these numbers show a stable harvest in spite of which bows were legal.
One thing that is forgotten when comparing WV to other states. We have a higher age group per capita than even Florida.
Also, a very high percentage of our disabled population are still able to hunt, fish, hang tree stands. Etc. compared to other states.
I may be wrong, but I think the archery kill would skyrocket and the DNR would be forced to cut back archery season in some way
But didn't I just read in a post above that almost half the deer killed in 2 Md counties were killed with crossbows. The kill would have had to be lower if crossbows were not used.
Well if WV has a high number of older people and disabled people then we will surely have to legalize crossbows. You can't discriminate against these groups
The legal use of crossbows hasn't seemed to hurt the deer population in the surrounding states that allow them, so I don't see where West Virginia's herd will be wiped out, probably not even reduced in number.
AGAIN, for the umtenth time. Most of them have a 1 buck limit.
I would love to see rock soild info crossbows wipe out deer (bucks) weather a state has a i buck limit or a 5 buck limit people who dont want them have the same argument .... And as far as loseing days the only dates YOU loose are the ones you dont hunt bow season comes in you can hunt during gun -muzzerloader - doe seasons with a BOW i just tierd of hearing we will lose days when we dont !!!
Well, everyone can have their opinion. If it happens, we'll see what happens.
Hunting with a bow during gun season is a whole different ball game than hunting in bow season without any bows.
Heard that the deer herd would be depleted when the compound first came out and became popular and we have more deer now than we did then. The deer herds were limited in the early 70's. The other states have a liberal doe limit and during doe hunting how many button bucks are killed and how many hunters do you personally know that kill three bucks each year?
AGAIN, for the umpteenth time. While they might not be that many people that kill 3 bucks. It causes minimal or no restraint in killing the first buck they see in a lot of cases because they know they have backup buck tags to keep hunting. They don't have that option in KY,OH. and PA. And a nonresident essentially dosen't have that option in MD because after a first buck, 2 does need to be killed before a 2nd buck can be killed. That's hard to do on a short 2-4 day hunt.
An article in one of the major hunting magazines once said in order to maintain a deer herd of 100 deer you had to kill 51 deer each year. I just don't see that happening.
I will bet that the first few years that the compound came out there were more deer killed with a bow in our state than the years with just recurves and longbows.
I don't kill 3 bucks every year but I guarantee you that between my home here in Jefferson county and my mountain land in Pendleton county I could kill 3 bucks and kill them all with my recurve. NO problem at all. But they would be dink bucks and I can kill does that are bigger and much more challenging and leave the small bucks for the gun hunters to shoot on opening day.
As hunter and sportsman we need to stick together and not bicker and fight among ourselves, theres enough anti hunters and tree huggers to do that for argument that we shouldn't use crossbows or compound bows or shotguns or rifles or whatever should be the individuals the great thing about being an american we do have a choice.Lets stick together and we will all be better off.
I know it sounds good, and everybody thinks if we all hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" that the antihunters will leave us alone and everything will be fine.
I drew the line when someone told me that the "hunters" of canned whitetail hunts were hunters too and we should embrace them as fellow hunters. I, Myself, personally am going to draw the line on unlimited general use of crossbows in archery season other than for the legitimate disabled hunter. Because in this state, with our population of hunters, and the way deer are managed here at this time, I believe the true bowhunters, (longbow,recurve,and compound and those that have to use a crossbow because of a disability) will suffer in the long run. And yes, I can be quoted on that.
I agree with you gobbler. I forget the words to kumbaya anyway. Lol
I agree with you gobbler. I forget the words to kumbaya anyway. Lol
Yes I can remember when I was a young man there was only a very few people in my county that could kill a deer with a bow or even cared to try..Soon came these new fancy bows with pulleys and cables and sights and all the "real" bow hunters hated them too.Now days my grandson can shoot a 65lb compound bow like an old pro.I still use my ole home made stick but I think with my old age I gained wisdom.
I think that the crossbow people are the ones who are dividing the hunters. They know that there will be fighting among the outdoorsmen when they push to make crossbows legal in archery seasons. They could just as well tried to make it ok for use in rifle season,but they are only in it for the money. People would not use crossbows during a season that guns are king. They fuel the fire to cause the rift between outdoorsmen.
We bowhunters should stick together. We are the hunters that want to be challenged by our quarry. To see just how close we can get and use skill to be able to put food on the table. Crossbow people want your money and could care less about the damage to our tradition and who sees us argue. In fact,they want you to argue for them
If you want to place blame,put the blame on those who want an easy to use,gun looking devise armed with a scope, trigger (with safety),and gun stock in our archery season.
If crossbows do make it in our season it won't be long before they move on to something new they can push.
Look at the primative muzzleloader season.Not so primative now is it? That may be the future of our bow season.
Well said MP.
Simply put, it's not bowhunting.
crossbow season! yea thats what we need ... how bout just extend rifle season from january to december
I think I would like to see a primitive weapons season ( muzzle loaders and crossbows). Make it two weeks long - do away with the week long doe season that comes in right after the two week gun season and then just add a week on to muzzleloader season. If not I am afraid that the powers that be - will include crossbows into bow season. For me I think a crossbow and muzzleloader are more comparable weapons then say a recurve and crossbow or heck even throw in most compounds - I would still consider the crossbow compares more to the muzzleloader than compound. JMO
I think I would like to see a primitive weapons season ( muzzle loaders and crossbows). Make it two weeks long - do away with the week long doe season that comes in right after the two week gun season and then just add a week on to muzzleloader season. If not I am afraid that the powers that be - will include crossbows into bow season. For me I think a crossbow and muzzleloader are more comparable weapons then say a recurve and crossbow or heck even throw in most compounds - I would still consider the crossbow compares more to the muzzleloader than compound. JMO
From a 2008 article in huntingandfishing.com:
“Overall, archers take about 25 percent of the deer harvested in Ohio,” said Ottie Snyder of Horton. “Where they really excel is in the urban zones such as Cuyahoga County, where shotguns are not allowed.” The total harvest last year was 232,854 bucks and does, and archers killed 78,639 deer. Crossbow hunters led the way with 42,292, a huge jump from the 29,397 deer they tagged in 2004.”
If you can’t see a pattern emerging in these few lines, and draw a reasonable conclusion that cossbows are a negative with regards to archery seasons, then…. well… I guess... umm ....
.
I just visited Cabela's the other day and saw tons of crossbows and accessories. They can sell them, even though they are illegal to hunt with, except for handicapped. We can thank them and other stores for getting them legalized. I will stick with buying my equipment from local small stores and individuals trying to cater to me. The high prices also scare me away.
PassThrough's Link
Column in Cumberland Times-News by retired W.Va. natural resources police officer.
I gotta get me one of those Blaze Orange Loin Cloths.
A couple of years ago, I stood firmly opposed to crossbows in WV. I must say, my position has soften since then. I personally won't hunt with one unless age or health force me to do so, they're just not my thing. I have a new PSE and love it but my father has a crossbow. He has back & shoulder problems and the crossbow affords him more time in the woods. This past weekend, I had my girls shooting his crossbow. They were deadly effective out to 30 yds. My girls are young, 6 & 8, and we practice out in the backyard twice a week with their Bear Lil Brave III bow, but the reality is it will be quite some time before they're strong enough to draw a bow that will adequately & ethically kill a deer. If they could use a crossbow, they could hunt with me this fall. I'm not saying crossbow hunting is bowhunting at it's finest, I'm certainly not trying to make any comparisions to hunting with a compound, recurve, or long bow. BUT, given the fact that hunter numbers are dropping consistently every year, I don't think legalizing them so kids can take advantage of them is a bad thing. I would be happy if there were a seperate season or if crossbow season was concurrent with traditional archery season the first two weeks.
My point is simply this: I'm not trying to compare crossbows with other bows or other types of hunting. I can see perfectly well how shouldering a crossbow makes the kill easier, that is simple to see. But honestly, when I think about getting my girls out there with me, easier is what I'm looking for. I want nothing more than to take advantage of the early season weather, sitting in a ground blind, and seeing one of my girls send an arrow through a nice mature doe. I don't see why I have to wait until they're 11 or 12 to do this when there are other means available. Just a thought (and a non-confrontational thought at that). Anxious to hear opinions because I'm sure I'll get them.
Valid point and concern. I understand how parents want their children to succeed.
My concern is that once kids see how easy they are to use with minimal practice time needed, why would they want to switch back to real bows? With kids life filled up with everything else, why spend countless hours practicing with a bow, when they can just pick up a crossbow and go hunting?
I understand your point and it would be up to the parent to continue to teach the child with a real bow. Like I said, they have a bow they shoot out in the back yard with me. My youngest even said while shooting the crossbow, "This isn't like yours, I want to hunt with a bow like yours." I had to tell her that while her bow is like mine, it'll be years before she can hunt with a bow like mine.
There is a risk that archery will be a lost art. True archery took a major hit when compounds became so advanced. Time & technology always have a way of doing that. Given the fact that fewer & fewer kids are hunting, our focus needs to be on getting kids out in the woods. If hunting is lost, recurves or crossbows won't matter anyway.
I'm certainly not blind to the risks & challenges it brings our state. I read all the earlier posts and they are valid. Large pop. that hunts, older age of hunters, the problem with the bow only counties. I see the difficulties with it. I'm unsure how it will affect the harvest numbers, that's a huge concern. I would think that rather than shorten the season, the DNR would reduce the bag limits, but that makes too much sense. I don't know, I don't know what the right equation is. As a dad wanting desperately to keep my girls in the woods with me, crossbows are appealing. They do alot with me now. They help with mineral licks, trail cameras, food plots, scouting, you name it. But it's hard to tell someone, especially a kid, that they can set the table and fix the food, but they can't eat. As mature hunters, gamekeepers if you will, we get as much satisfaction in checking trail cameras or seeing deer eat in a field we've planted as we do releasing an arrow or squeezing the trigger. Kids aren't wired that way....YET. Harvesting that deer is everything to a kid. With some many other activities demanding their time, I think we need to increase those harvest opportunities to keep their interest peaked. For kids, especially girls, if they've lost interest by 11 or 12, it might be gone for good.
Without stepping on anyone's toes what ever happened to the learning curve?. Why do kids have to do everything right now? I remember watching my dad leave for deer camp to hunt with his brother and I was too young to go. I wanted to go and he wanted to take me. But boy it was sweet when I could go. Kids don't always have to do and have what adults have. Heck , kids now have cell phones when they are 8-9 years old. What for,? Who do they need to talk to? We are ruining our kids and our nation by giving them everything. Kids all have to make the team and get a participation trophy. I got cut from my freshman basketball team and was devastated. It made me work harder and I got a free college education playing basketball. Now we don't cut kids and exclude them. We make more teams so everyone can play. That teaches our kids nothing. I know I am ranting but this is the very reason the crossbow companies will introduce crossbows into our bow season. So everyone can participate. I dont have a son but if the Lord ever blesses me with a grandson I will teach him to hunt with areal bow. Let the kids wait until they can draw a real bow. They will appreciate the kill more. Jmo
Babysaph, I don't disagree with your points. Some of the best lessons are the hardest lessons and nothing good comes easy. I'm their soccer coach now and I don't like the idea that no one loses, everyone wins. Kids need to learn about failure & losing. They'll lose way more than they'll win in life. Kids are spoon fed their whole lives and taught they're so great & special, then they hit the real world. A world where no one cares and a world that is quite competitive. Kids struggle. I just don't think taking kids hunting with a crossbow is a part of that big problem. With the numbers of hunters decreasing every year and today's youth showing less & less interest in the outdoors, sometimes a little change is necessary. All change isn't bad. Now, HOPE & CHANGE is/was, lol, but that's a different conversation.
My girls are learning to shoot a real bow. When they get decent with it, I'll take them to 3D ranges and we'll continue practice in the backyard. The reality is they won't be able to hunt for quite some time, 4-5 years for my oldest. In a kids life, that's a long time and there are so many other activities out there they can do now, the interest may be gone by then. I'd just like to not take that chance.
And I'll be honest, as much as I say it's for them, it's about me too. I cherish every minute with those two and none of us know when our time is up. There have been many people that told their kids, we'll go when you're old enough, yet they didn't make it until they got old enough. Yeah, I know, that's the breaks. I just think crossbows afford parents the chance to spend time hunting with their young children. Those days are priceless and you can never get those days back.
I do agree kids must be entertained or the get bored. I am perfectly willing to take my chances on losing hunting seasons to keep the crossbows out. After all , like was said earlier bowhunting changed when the compound was introduced. We can't keep introducing things to ake hunting easier just so people will participate. That changes the whole game. Jmo
Well, hopefully you will be blessed with a grandchild someday that you can teach to bowhunt. That would seem to be a wonderful treat for a grandparent. For your sake, I hope you're young enough or in good enough health when they finally come of age.
I just don't buy into that argument that kids need to be using these devices. Bowhunting is supposed to be about personal challenge, skill development and getting close.
I took my son with me since he was 5 or 6 and he enjoyed the experience. He didn't take his own bow until I felt he was ready.
Kids can be introduced with guns/rifles first and then graduate to bows. In fact, here is a story if the pictures come thru well enough of a member's daughter who took her first deer in youth season with a .222 and then practiced all year with the bow and got her first with a bow the following year at age 9.
If you read that link on article in the paper, the author referred to his 80 year old dad using one. Well, we had a story of a member who was 86 who took a deer with his bear recurve.
If there is a physical impairment - ok, but otherwise I don't think that weapon should be in the archery season.
Also if you notice, Randy Benear's story was featured in that same issue. Randy modified a conventional compound attached to his wheelchair and used a bow and not a crossbow to take his first WITH A BOW!
You see, even with physical limitations, if there is a desire/will people can overcome and use bows in archery season.
What happens to the quality of life and quality of experience for bowhunters when they are overran by xbow hunters walking the woods with cocked and loaded weapons?
Thanks slimer. Enjoy you kids. They are only young for a short time
I agree with all you said Little Bear
That's a cool story. That's awesome she got one that young. I don't know if I've heard of a girl younger than 9 getting one with a bow. Good for her.
I am not a crossbow user in fact I have never used one.But I get really amused to read this site ,to see people get all fired up about these things. What is a real bow? It certainly isn't one of these things that you see everyone using now days.With 70 percent let off and pulleys sights levels release aids and the list goes on and on.Lets get some real facts.The first bow were made around 800 bc they were made of wood. Later came the crossbow somewhere around the 6th century BC . Then came these things we now see everyone using in the mid 1960. so what is really more primitive? I really dont see the reason so many people dislike crossbows.Get real the effective range of a crossbow is not much different then a good bow in the hands of a good shooter.Why all the fuss.Lets just try to get along with each other as hunters,as I said before we have enough problems in the government and antis trying to kill our sport as it is. .
Ok ,where do you draw the line on what is archery? To some I guess as long as it flings a arrow or bolt its archery equipment. They make a gun now that will fire an arrow. Archery equipment?
Its all about the kill and less about the skill now. I figure I drew my line on what is archery and it dosn't have a gun stock, scope and safty on the trigger.You also have to draw on it when the game comes in range. But everyone has different opinions.
Regardless of when the crossbow was invented (before of after a bow that needs to be drawn to shoot) it is still easier to shoot or young kids and older adults would not be able to pick it up and be proficient with it. Call it more traditional if you want but I know it is easier to shoot. I put a bolt in the bullseye at my neighbors at 40 yards with the first shot. He could not do that when I let him shoot my recurve. Case closed.
And don't get me wrong. If you guys want to shoot them than do. I still will think its cheating. To me it is not what bowhunting was meant to be.
And the effective range may be the same but being proficient with it is much easier which is the reason why so many want it. No learning curve. I know guys that can shoot the heck out of a real bow but they usually work at it.
I agree but again what are you calling a "REAL" bow? It is MUCH easier being proficient with a 60 pound compound with 80% let off and sights,levels,stabilizers,peep sights,etc than it is with a 50 lb.longbow with wooden arrows.So what is the point?What is a "REAL" bow? Some choose to hunt with a longbow,some with a recurve,some with the highly effective much easier to shoot compound with all the gadgets in the world attached.
Peep sights and fiber sights on a compound vs a scope on a crossbow?(You know,like a rifle scope!) Advantage crossbow
Stabilizer on a compound vs a rest using a crossbow?(Same rest like you would use shooting a rifle.) Once again advantage crossbow.
80% let off (you still have to draw on the animal which requires movement and you may get busted) vz using a rest, wait for the animal to walk in and move your finger to the safety and pull the trigger(like a rifle).Big advantage crossbow.
If you are unable to shoot a light pound compound and a crossbow is the only way you can hunt then by all means hunt. If you are able to shoot a compound and still want to use a crossbow then you may want to think about what bow hunting really means to you.
Once again,thats just my opinion.
Babysaph, you're absolutely right about them being easier to shoot. My 7 year old was shooting a 4" group at 30 yds. after a half dozen shots, and that was just because she needed to get used to it.
Still dont get it huh!! 80 lb let off Nothing like a longbow or recurve. peep and fiber optics just like a open sighted rifle . Hand held release aid just like a rifle.But the choice is yours!! Thats the point If you want to hunt with a recurve you can.If you want to hunt with a longbow you can.If you you want to hunt with a compound with sights,levels,peep sights,fiber optics sights,release aid etc you can Thats the point.
You can hunt with a compound with all the bells and whistles. Even with the bells and whistles you still have to draw on the deer when its near. You still have to hold the bow and not rest it on a limb or gun rest. You still can not ride around on a 4-wheeler with it loaded and ready to pull the trigger.
Compound are far more advanced than trad equipment. Compounds may some day evolve into something that would not be in my mind bow hunting equipment. Crossbows HAS crossed that limit. Its up to the bowhunters to say enough. Remember,bowhunting is suppose to be a challenge.
I hunt with a longbow because I do enjoy the challenge. I also enjoy the satisfaction of the hunt when I'm successful and when I'm not.
I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.
Well if a compound is just as easy to shoot as a crossbow then why all the hype about a crossbow. Lets just leave it the way it is. All the handicapped and kids and older adults should be able to handle the compounds if they are just as easy.
Well lets go one step further lets just outlaw anything that uses a mechanical advantage..Then we will all be using longbows and shooting instinctive. Thats what I do so does that mean that everyone has to..Sounds dumb doesnt it. Thats my point!!
I think we all know the difference. Both sides can make points to justify their position. The point is the WVDNR knows the difference for now. Colorado just voted them down again for general use during archery season.
anybody posting here that also goes afield with a rifle during rifle season has no valid point in why there should not be a xbow season. if u are a trad shooter, argue on, but if u go out with the mathews helium, then go with the browningxbolt for rifle season, why in heck would you be arguing against the use of a crossbow?
crossbows wont hurt the pop anymore than what the poachers and mother nature is doing already. in fact it will generate sales for the shops and for the dnr which isnt a bad thing. plus it will allow people who otherwise couldnt go afield the chance to harvest a deer. its more about the hunter that designates success rather than the weapon. lets just do away with it all and just throw rocks at them all the while the pop will continue exploding-cwd and ehd will run rampant and countless people will die in collisions. lets fight for more hunting land and buck restrictions. someone with the ability to shoot whatever they want and can do it in the privacy of their own hunting land should not be arguing over something that could benefit a less fortunate person, or anybody wanting to hunt with one
Now that is over.I will say why this has bothered me. I have a large piece of property in east central West virginia That I have a great group of guys hunting.Both bow hunting and gun hunting. We have several feed plots planted with with a diffrent mixture of things we have whitetail clover in one we have chicory in one we have chufa in one and it takes quite a bit of work to keep the property up. Well one of our guys got sick and couldnt bow hunt any longer.He wanted to hunt with us but just couldnt pull his bow any longer.He tried to get his doctor to give him the proper paper work to get a crossbow permit but the doctor kept putting him off. He passed the year befor last and didnt get to hunt the last two years of his life.He loved to hunt but like all my group he would do NOTHING that wasnt legal. Even while he was sick he would come down and help us as much as he could get our feed plots ready and do whatever he could but couldnt hunt his last two years. He was just an old guy that lived and died a true sportsman. HE didnt have a choice.
gobbler's Link
I'm sorry to hear about your friend. It is tough to lose a good friend. No disrespect to your friend, and I respect him for obeying the law. However, if he had a legitimate disability that prevented him from using a regular bow, he could have pressed his doctor for approval, or went to another doctor for a second opinion. Again, no disrespect intended.
Yes your are right about that but his time seemed to fly by. Really I tried to tell him to go ahead and get a crossbow I told him that I would lock our gates and besides the only time in thirty years that a dnr stopped by they came because we invited them to bow hunt with us.I was wrong I know but he wouldnt do it anyway.
Snapshot. I agree. Let's all use longbows ad recurves. Lol
Well I don't go afield with a rife. I think crossbows are fine. In the rifle season. I don't think we need to allow everyone to bowhunt if the don't want to use a bow.
And I don't care if a guy uses a crossbow . As long as it is not in bow season. We can't stop the poachers from killing all the deer but we can eliminate the crossbow.
Snapshot. Couldn't your friend shoot a rifle?
So you tred to talk your friend into breaking the law?
Yes I did try to Get him to break the law really I knew he wouldnt do it anyway.As I said I know it was wrong but I am sure far far from perfect. He may have been able to shoot a gun but he was really fradgle at last and really didnt like the cold.He liked the bow saeason much more.Anyway I think I am smart enough to know that it is what it is but that doesnt always make it right.
I cant wait till we move on to more important issues that we all can agree on. Maybe we could bring up: mechanical vs. fixed, baiting vs. food plots, primitive vs. compound, realtree vs. mossy oak, Ford vs. Chevy, Cabelas vs. Bass Pro. It doesnt matter what it is folks, none of us have the same "Oppinions" on any of these. I have voiced my "Oppinion" on this and so have many others. Some bring up "Fact" supporting articles explaining how their "Oppinion" is right. We will never agree on this topic or many just like it. Respect peoples "Oppinions" and abide by the laws laid out by those that we have selected to represent our "Oppinions". 13 more days and I will express my "Oppinion" on the best way to fix "Fresh" Back Straps. I am sure everyone will agree my way is the "Best". Now everyone hold hands and lets move on.
James
Your right mudflap, let's move on.It's gonna happen weather you ,me, or anyone else like,s it or not.I remember all the crying going on about the first bows with wheels.(compounds) Life will go on with or without xbows.Good hunting to all, no matter what you use.
I guess you guys are fight. It is going to hapen
I'm from Ohio and crossbows are every where. It seems to me that the xbows bring out more inexperienced hunters and more slob hunters. The true bowhunters move to more challenging compounds or traditional bows after they get some experience under their belts. The most successful hunters in my area shoot compounds just because they are more experienced and better hunters.
PassThrough's Link
At the local pro shop again..he sold 3 while i was there and 2 more guys picked up ones that they had fixed for them....
Makes one wonder...
What Tevyou wondering about?
Little Bear's Link
Well, I basically knew this topic was started to stir the pot and invoke responses. I kind of hated to see it blow up with so many responses but sometimes it is necessary to post a reply and stand up for your own opinion, otherwise it would appear there were no oposition which is clearly not the case.
Michael Sawyers clearly doesn't embrace the tradition and challenge bowhunting provides. Notice "It's easier to kill a deer with a crossbow" was listed in each perspective of bowhunter, xbow proponent and his own view?
With our state surrounded by states that allow crossbows for everyone, I don't think the DNR can declare the use of this weapon would not have a biological impact on the resource. They have only begun to count xbow kills last year and have no idea how many non-residents would come over here and kill deer not to mention how many gun hunters will pick up this gun-like weapon further increasing the harvest, after all "it's easier to kill a deer with a crossbow".
He is right about one thing - legislation is required and the WV Bowhunters Association will be ready in January to continue the fight to protect the archery season and the resource. If anyone is a serious bowhunter and not a member you should consider joining and help us keep this weapon from expanding beyond the disabled in the archery season.
Well said Little Bear. I fear it is coming though. Just too much money involved.
I normally do not post in such things as this but I feel compelled to put my 2 cents in. As a former bow hunter I understand everyone's desires to maintain the thrill of the hunt and hunting for the sport.
I know that there are a lot of sport hunters out there but the sport has never been my primary reason for hunting, I hunt to feed my family and bow season was another way to put more meat in the freezer.
After being hit by a car while I was directing traffic (I am a police officer) and having back surgery several years later (not related to the car incident), my injuries are not severe enough to rate me a class Y license so I can no longer bow hunt so I lost that extra meat. Introducing a crossbow "season" would give me the opportunity put a little extra meat in the freezer to feed my family.
little bear sorry i dont know you or you me. I started this thread. NOT TO STIR UP ANYTHING so not sure about your comment. i dont know if anyone on here knows me. so like i said just from what ive read on here befor not to hard to see most dont like them or want them in wva. i could care less because i BOWHUNT LORD willing till the day i die....jmo
Brian I left you a private message.
I honestly think most that post here don't like em but most in we will like em
I usually run out of deer meat sometime in May. I would like the DNR to open a special season just for me in June so I can get one to do me over until season comes in.
I meant most in wv like them
For the guys promoting crossbows. I think you're going about it wrong. You need to somehow relate not being able to use crossbows as being racist. That will give you a few points. Also, if you can somehow equate not being able to use crossbows to taking away Social Security and Medicare, that will really help. Maybe, instead of a free cell phone for low income people, give them a choice between a cell phone or a crossbow? Disability is only one of many approaches to take, we still have race, elderly, and youth to work on. Don't forget the gays. A lot of them seem to lack wrist strength necessary to pull and hold a bow back. They may need a crossbow.
Don't forget wealth redistribution! If now people will be able to hunt with a crossbow, then it would only sound fair to confiscate some land for them to hunt on.
Hope this helps
petemoss - with your injury I would be very surprised if your doctor would not sign the application to get you at Y permit. With around 18,000 permits already I know for a fact there are some out there for far less injuries.
MYTH: The crossbow controversy creates division amongst sportsmen, and the public image of crossbows makes proposed hunting with them counter to the sportsmen's interests.
FACT: Where permitted, crossbow hunting creates NO controversy except that created by a few individuals who deem themselves and their chosen method of hunting as superior to all others. The public image of crossbows stems from the lack of knowledge of a crossbow's limited capabilities, as well as the myths touted by those who oppose their use. The TRUE controversy and tragedy of the crossbow issue stems from the time, effort and money spent by so called conservation-minded bowhunting organizations to deny others the opportunity to hunt rather than promoting the virtues of bowhunting to the public.
Thought this was interesting.
James
I wish to be told why we need crossbows in archery season. Why would any able-bodied bowhunter think that they need to use a crossbow. Is it because they think they need a crossbow to kill a deer? Is it because its something new? Is it because they are not allowed to use a crossbow in archery season?
Other than not being able to pull back a bow I really don't understand why hunters want to use a arrow shooting gun in archery season.
Please explain why you feel that you no longer want to use a bow IN BOW SEASON.
Fact: The crossbow people are causing the division among the bowhunting community. They are pushing to change our season for their financial gain.
but if you get a June season then Im going to have to have a July season gobbler. It's only right.
I know, we all should be able to do what we want. Why worry about regulations, or what's good for the deer herd. It's all about me and what I want!!
Also, I can't get into the middle of the Cranberry backcountry like I used to be able to. I think the DNR needs to build me a road into the middle fork of the Williams.
mudflap - I can see that came directly from a site promoting crossbows.
Too bad they get their myths and facts distorted.
These are all just oppinions of different people. We all have them and have "Facts" that support them. That is what I am trying to show everyone. For every reason you can find not to allow crossbows someone is going to have a reason to allow them. It will never be agreed upon by these two groups. It will take someone listening to both sides to make an "Unbiased" decision whether to legalize them or not. I dont believe it will decimate the deer herd, I dont believe it will have people running through the woods like Rambo shooting every living thing in sight. What sportsman wants to eliminate the game in which they love to hunt? Not me and I will guess to say none of us on here. If you all can seriously look at each other and tell your selves that this is what will happen if crossbows were ever legalized you are definitely seeing something I am not. I would think there would have to be bigger issues to conquer besides this. Love all of you and probably have spent time and shot with most of ya. Think what you will of me but trust me when I say "I Am A Serious Bowhunter".
Lets Go Mountaineers!
James
I am not oppossed to crossbows. They just don't need to be in the bow season. No one will deny they are easier to master as evidenced by little kids and handicapped using them. Bowhunting is supposed to be harder.
did the same fight occur when the introduction of compouund bows came about? one fact i will invoke thought. the deer population has exploded over the years even amongst the more diversity in weaponery, more liberal seasons, vanishing habitat. people come to wv to hunt just like they do for trout fishing. lots of deer lots of trout minimal regs. dont fight the hunters, fight the antis and fight for better regs. we arent cavemen and we dont throw rocks anymore. dont shoot trad and own an iphone. lets get people hunting and again fight for the above.
I was around when compounds 1st became popular and I really don't remember the fight against their introduction. I'm not saying there wasn't a fight to keep them out but I do know that nobody that I knew were against them. That was way before the internet and hunting on tv so it was a small community. Now one voice or sentence reaches many We had few deer and very few bowhunters in the 70s. Here in my neck of the woods bowhunting didn't grow until after the deer population exploded. There were tons of squirrel, rabbit and grouse hunters. Now we have tons of bowhunters and the deer population is not what it was in the 90s. I really don't think that the crossbow argument would exist if everyone got their deer. You actually have to hunt in most of WV now to tag a deer.
Once again I say you have to draw the line on just what is archery and what should be allowed in bow season. My opinion is that people wanting to use crossbows are selling out our sport and slapping the face of those who need crossbows to hunt. That being said I'm done with this argument for a while.
I was living in Huntington when the compound bow made it appearance. The NFAA wasn't impressed with it or how much better the shooter performed seeing it had all the advantages over the recurve. Sights, release, scope, and 25% letoff. They frowned on those who started using the compound, but were soon outnumbered. At that time if you bowhunted you were pretty much laughed at, because few deer were killed with the bow and the number of deer was low. I don't care what you use to hunt deer with it does not guarantee a kill. Many gun hunters don't kill any deer. The crossbow has not wiped out the herd is the states that allow them. Many after carrying them for a while will give up on them due to the weight, noise, inaccurate at unknown distances, etc.
They are easier plain and simple. If you need to use one go ahead. I won't. I'm getting old and don't have a lot of years left to hunt. But I will do my bowhunting with a bow.
Yes they are easier. Of course the compound is easier than the recurve or longbow. I'm not pushing for or against, but just agreeing with what others have pointed out.
MP, we didn't have the social media like we do today.. Could you imagine back in the day when compounds came out if there was a Bowsite? It would probably look like this thread right now...
Maybe so,but we didn't have many bowhunters then also.Its just a guess,but I figure in the late 70s WV had less bowhunters than we have traditional bow hunters today.
yes it is a numbers game. The problem will be the DNR will sell some extra tags but will more than likely have to reduce the deer kill. But then again maybe they want dead deer. We are sure allowed to kill a lot of deer.I can see rifle hunters using them that may not bowhunt now. And of course some bowhunters will use them. I am past worrying about it. They won't be allowed on the land I hunt on anyway so I will continue hunting the way I do. Like I say. I am on the downside now. I predict in 20 years there will not be many people hunting anyway. Kids are not interested in it now.