Carbon Express Arrows
Hunters we have a problem
Manitoba
Contributors to this thread:
7273 02-Nov-12
30yd-max 02-Nov-12
bigbuck 02-Nov-12
Canadian Caveman. 02-Nov-12
Canadian Caveman. 02-Nov-12
bigbuck 02-Nov-12
bigbuck 02-Nov-12
7273 02-Nov-12
Canadian Caveman. 02-Nov-12
7273 03-Nov-12
carcus 03-Nov-12
Buckstopper 03-Nov-12
Manitoba Bohuntr 03-Nov-12
7273 03-Nov-12
Manitoba Bohuntr 03-Nov-12
7273 03-Nov-12
7273 03-Nov-12
Bentshaft 03-Nov-12
Wild North 04-Nov-12
7273 04-Nov-12
Wild North 04-Nov-12
Canadian Caveman. 04-Nov-12
Shaft 04-Nov-12
7273 04-Nov-12
Manitoba Bohuntr 04-Nov-12
Canadian Caveman. 04-Nov-12
Bear Track 04-Nov-12
7273 04-Nov-12
Shaft 04-Nov-12
Bear Track 04-Nov-12
Shaft 04-Nov-12
Canadian Caveman. 04-Nov-12
7273 04-Nov-12
Canadian Caveman. 04-Nov-12
rattling_junkie 04-Nov-12
7273 04-Nov-12
rattling_junkie 04-Nov-12
Wild North 04-Nov-12
7273 04-Nov-12
Manitoba Bohuntr 05-Nov-12
TOP PIN 05-Nov-12
rattling_junkie 05-Nov-12
7273 05-Nov-12
TOP PIN 05-Nov-12
7273 05-Nov-12
Bear Track 05-Nov-12
7273 05-Nov-12
Gumby 05-Nov-12
7273 05-Nov-12
Canadian Caveman. 05-Nov-12
Canadian Caveman. 05-Nov-12
Gumby 05-Nov-12
jamiewbowhunter 05-Nov-12
jamiewbowhunter 05-Nov-12
7273 05-Nov-12
Gumby 05-Nov-12
7273 05-Nov-12
carcus 05-Nov-12
carcus 05-Nov-12
carcus 05-Nov-12
APauls 05-Nov-12
7273 05-Nov-12
rattling_junkie 05-Nov-12
7273 05-Nov-12
APauls 05-Nov-12
7273 05-Nov-12
Canadian Caveman. 06-Nov-12
TOP PIN 06-Nov-12
Wild North 06-Nov-12
Wild North 06-Nov-12
Shaft 06-Nov-12
Wild North 06-Nov-12
carcus 07-Nov-12
7273 07-Nov-12
Manitoba Bohuntr 07-Nov-12
7273 07-Nov-12
rattling_junkie 07-Nov-12
bigbuck 07-Nov-12
APauls 07-Nov-12
Wild North 07-Nov-12
rattling_junkie 07-Nov-12
APauls 08-Nov-12
Manitoba Bohuntr 08-Nov-12
Tyler 08-Nov-12
Wild North 08-Nov-12
carcus 09-Nov-12
Bear Track 09-Nov-12
Wild North 09-Nov-12
North@Hunter 10-Nov-12
Canadian Caveman. 11-Nov-12
Manitoba Bohuntr 11-Nov-12
Wild North 11-Nov-12
7273 11-Nov-12
Shaft 11-Nov-12
Shaft 11-Nov-12
Wild North 11-Nov-12
30yd-max 13-Nov-12
Gumby 13-Nov-12
APauls 13-Nov-12
mb hunter 08-Dec-12
Shaft 12-Jan-13
rattling_junkie 14-Jan-13
7273 14-Jan-13
Wild North 17-Jan-13
Tyler 19-Jan-13
britfan 29-Jan-13
Tyler 01-Feb-13
rattling_junkie 01-Feb-13
MANITOBABEAR 11-Jan-15
From: 7273
02-Nov-12
Ok I am and always have been against baiting for deer All stores r now selling bait,yes legal for taking cam tracker pics fine. Hunters r hunting over this stuff well that's illegal. The problem is most of us have 10 to 20 acres of land to hunt and nothing against people who have harvest cards but they can legally bait which is fine go ahead but if you are hunting your piece of land that you have always had a person with a harvest card can get permission somewhere around your spot and set up there bait and you can no longer hunt because you are within a half mile of a legal bait Again I have no issues with them it is with the the people who make these rules. Now I hunt in the archery zones around Winnipeg I have a total of three pieces that equal 50 acres and are all within a half mile of each other and the law says if a person with a harvester card hunts within in that half mile and has a bait I can no longer legally hunt This is bullshit I can understand not hunting the same piece of property but let's get real. It is time to legalize baiting for all or take that 800 meter rule out. We need to have a level playing ground and we definatly don't. Conservation told me if they bait we can't hunt property within a half mile screw that As much against baiting as I am it is time to legalize for all and in two years deer will be afraid of bait sites especially mature Bucks Change the 800 meter law or legalize for all I see no other option or we wont be able to hunt anywhere. We must fix this problem one way or another Speak Up or we r all in trouble as hunters.

From: 30yd-max
02-Nov-12
I didn't know this,they can bait for deer? hows that allowable? Are natives allowed also? U can basically get pushed right out of a area????

From: bigbuck
02-Nov-12
Yep they are allowed! And I know a few metis harvestor dudes that have killed a pile of animals this year.. WAY more then they could eat in a lifetime! Pretty cool eh! I think I'm gonna stick to shooting coyotes this year. then again I'm sure they'll take that from us to!!

02-Nov-12
I've known this fact for quite some time and have been waiting for it to go "public". I'm looking at it as a good thing and I'll tell you guys why.

MB conservation and water stewardship has been so focused on pushing their narrow minded views on ethics (baiting, foodplots)that they've forgotten what they're here for. There's a bunch of old cronies that sit in meetings and decide what their view of hunting in this province should be and use "science" to justify the policies that come from them......rather than dealing with the very real and present threats to our wildlife populations.

So we need to push for a "leveling" of the playing field now that its out that meties and natives can bait legally. All that "science based disease management" (what ever that means) has gone to hell with this going on. MB conservation need to focus those resources to other much more urgent issues. We need to contact the minister of conservation, all our wildlife clubs and local MLA's. We need to start to literally raise hell.

MB conservation needs to quite micro managing those of us that follow the rules and deal with the REAL problems. Its time to bring MB conservation and water stewardship back to reality!!!!!

02-Nov-12
*quit micro managing (stupid auto type)

From: bigbuck
02-Nov-12
I'm irritated now.. the 2 pcs of land I hunt on north of Oakbank I can't legally hunt anymore! LOL.. because some gready douche bag feels he needs to kill everything that walks over a bait pile? LOL. Thats totally awesome! Oops I stand corrected they dont shoot doe's.. You know who you are, you are on this site.. Think I might post exactly where that land is to. Bunch of loosers..

Boy I cant wait for the backlash on this one.. Bring it on.

From: bigbuck
02-Nov-12
By the way. great point Ryan.

From: 7273
02-Nov-12
K I don't want to bash their rights they can have them but I want mine as I did call nr today they told me it would be illegal for me to hunt my own property that I live on and paid for if a bait was set within a half mile. They did say it is illegal but I probably won't be charged, so basically they said its against the law but they will take each case into consideration, so now I'm a poacher who is breaking the law on my own propery but they will probably not press charges wtf.

02-Nov-12
Guys, this raises a TON of questions and problems. What about public lands??? Will I be charged for hunting with bait if I'm unknowingly hunting within 800 meters? What about private land with multiple users?

There's two solutions, either legalize it or completely ban it for all users groups. We need to unite and push this subject. I'm going to the next local game and fish meeting and putting a resolution on the table to open this up for a discussion at the provincial convention. I recommend everyone else that can do the same.

I've done a ton of research into baiting/food plots and how its linked to disease. I will post a thread in the next few days about this. To put it simply, we've been lied to for many years guys and its time to call MB conservation on it.

From: 7273
03-Nov-12
Count me in

From: carcus
03-Nov-12
I wouldn't worry about bait on neighboring properties, if you don't have permission how would you even know it there? You would have to tresspass to find it? I would think that one would get thrown out in court. Man, there seems to be a ton of BS going on in that birdhill area, this is why I don't bother, I have permission on 2 properties bordering the park that I have never hunted!

From: Buckstopper
03-Nov-12
Another hunter harassment law that is virtually unenforcable!

03-Nov-12
Tim has made some great points, and he is right in that a guy can't even hunt his own property if someone within 800 meters is feeding deer. I've fallen prey to the same issues in people feeding deer without the intent of hunting. Nearby cottagers feed the deer forcing me to move my set ups further away to remain legal. These cottagers back onto crown land making 800 meters of the crown land unhuntable.....NOT FAIR in my opinion.

Property borders should void the 800 meter rule. If every 4th river lot had an owner feeding deer then no-one could hunt the entire Red River. Tell me what's fair about that. Better yet...someone across the river feeds deer...your guilty!!!

Sure, in court you will likely get off a charge if you were 2 properties over, but the stress involved and the $20,000 spent to defend yourself sucks!

From: 7273
03-Nov-12
Carcus I do worry about bait on other property because it holds the deer and I see nothing. Last year I hunted 26 days and shot one doe when I got permission to track it I found a bait and seen more deer sign at that bait then I seen in 10 years. Well I thought the population was so low that we should have a tag reduction till I took my video camera and counted on video 336 deer within a mile of a anti bait. I wonder where are the deer well to me the population is down and all the other deer are at legal and illegal baits. So yes I do get your point that if I don't know I won't be charged but I might not even get a chance to draw my bow cause the deer are on baits so ya I worry about other property.

03-Nov-12
Tim...I think carcus was looking at it from strictly a legal standpoint. I'm sure no-one will argue what you are debating. I've never been an advocate for baiting, but when you look at it with anti hunters involved, why should they be able to feed deer in order to keep them away from hunters?

Feeding deer for the purpose of hunting will never be taken away from 1st nations people or those with harvester cards. Feeding deer for viewing by residents or anti's will never be taken away either. Neither will it for the purpose of drawing deer away from hunters by antis. As much as I dislike it, the only fair option is to allow everyone to feed deer regardless of intentions.

I too had no idea how much feeding programs drew the deer away from where I hunted until last year when it seemed hopeless to even see a mature deer. I heard of a cottage for sale in a small sub-division and thought I'd check it out as the price was right. I was very surprised to find that the sub-division had 6 fifteen hundred pound bags of birdseed for cottagers to watch the deer. Just like Tim encountered, I couldn't buy a deer as hard as I tried. Really though...how am I gonna compete with 9000 lbs of feed? I abandoned that area after 3 weeks of hard hunting to shoot a little 2 1/2 year old 20miles away. The effort I put in made the young deer a trophy but was sub par for Manitoba.

From: 7273
03-Nov-12
Yes I agree the quickest easiest way to fix this is to allow everyone to bait as much as I don't like it. If we can't change any of the other options then we should try and make it fair. All of us or most of us just want to enjoy and pass down our knowledge to the next generation and the BS going on is all stupid we should all be on the same side to preserve hunting for the future and all I was saying to Jason was if someone is baiting on close properties we r going to have a hard time getting a deer and at this point just legalize it for all and make it fair again

From: 7273
03-Nov-12
Oh and to clarify I did not say to take away first nation or Metis rights I just want to make it fair for everyone. I want first nation and Metis and all of us to be on the same team so we all can hunt and fill our freezers with meat and some of these laws and decisions being made are crazy also to clarify I am not talking about first nations or Metis good for them, I am talking about hunting my land legally and having a fair chance. If we can legalize the bait issue I think a lot of the BS going on between hunters will mellow out a bit and we can go back to enjoying hunting instead of making us legal hunters illegal.

From: Bentshaft
03-Nov-12
It will never be fair for everyone, keep dreaming. To make it fair then we should all have the same rights as the natives or like the metis. Now that's fair. But I'm tired of banging my head against the wall !!! The way things are going, probably in a few years not much will be left big game wise to hunt here sadly anyways.

From: Wild North
04-Nov-12
Im with Alex. Wildlife Management is absolutely horrible in this Province, Thanks to the NDP Government (sorry Tim). Natives will, and always will come first in this province. Im seriously looking on taking my business, and Family to Alberta. Im lucky my wife is guaranteed a federal job anywhere in Canada.

From: 7273
04-Nov-12
All government has to much control and it's all corrupt but we especially hunters sit back and take it. If we do not fix this with conservation hunting will become a thing of the past. Every anti stands up and fights against us and we sit and do nothing. This is not a one area debate it is all of MB. Area 33 has a horrible solution to the dwindling deer herd ya let's open up a shotgun buck season. Conservation needs a reality check and if we don't give it to them they will continue to rule us. I almost want to give up hunting over this BS. To all of u who read this and don't say or take action be prepared for what is about to happen,if u think ah whatever I'll just twist the rules keep my mouth shut and hunt my own little piece of land. Good luck with that behind the scenes plans are in place to come and find u. It is going to get ugly.

From: Wild North
04-Nov-12

Wild North's embedded Photo
Wild North's embedded Photo
lets start our own federation

04-Nov-12
Tim, there's some things I'd like to chat about in private. I can't figure out how to start a pm using mobile, shoot me a pm please lol.

From: Shaft
04-Nov-12
Caveman, your post was a really good one. No doubt the tall foreheads need to be shaken up. Dr. Moose is gone now so maybe things will get better. IMO, it has to be all or nothing. The problem with all is that the tree huggers will still be able to do it and they do it year round. That pizz...me right off. So to me its nothing. Nobody should be allowed to baits on private land anyways and crown lands.

If a total baiting and feeding ban can be placed around Riding Mountain why can't it be done in all of southern manitoba. Especially around winnipeg.

Canadian tire flyer was selling deer bait. What kind of bs is that?

What a game warden told me at my game and fish meeting was that any hunter who knows that he's hunting within 1/2 mile of a bait or feeder is breaking the law. So I asked him what if the hunter doesn't know, what then? All he said was that the hunter would need to know and that the warden would have to prove that he knows.

Iasked him if the guy feeding deer would get a ticket for feeding. He said that right now around Winnipeg, a guy wouldn't get a ticket. He would get ordered to stop feeding. If the doesn't stop feeding then he can get charged for not stopping the feeding.

Don't know if that makes sense but thats what he told me anyways. I know that we need to stand up to the goverment on this.

From: 7273
04-Nov-12
Shaft good point but as Ryan said we can not stop people with harvester cards they can and will bait. The government will never ban the province from feeding or legal baiting. The only option and chance is everyone. I believe this works well in sask. i was told I can't even hunt my own land if a bait was placed within a half mile I am and always have been against baiting but I now feel it must come back that will kill the 800 meter rule and level the playing ground again. Guys this is the most serious shit we have had to face If u can't even hunt propery u own hunting is going to be gone. The government takes our money for tags and then they give the antis and natives who don't pay the right to feed and bait. Caveman I will be in touch

04-Nov-12
An all out ban of feeding will not work as non-hunters will be oblivious to the rules and still feed the pretty deer. Even if authorities post the area, all it will take is one person feeding them for yours, mine, and everyone else's hunting spot to be jeopardized.

For instance, the cabin owners I talked about in a previous post have no intention to shoot deer or even draw the deer away from where I hunt. Their innocent actions of feeding made my 25 trips out hunting, the fuel and costs involved as well as the time away from my family....a total waste of time! You'd think hunting 800 meters away would still work....NOPE! It was rare to see a deer outside of the surrounding 500 meters of the 9000 lbs of feed.

I'd be interested in Ryan's research around how feeding doesn't really spread disease? Is that how we've been lied to?

04-Nov-12
Ryan, yep pretty much. I'm collecting notes and putting something together as we speak.

From: Bear Track
04-Nov-12
Well, here I am checking on my favourite November treestand and over on the other side of the fence is a ground blind with not 1 but 5 piles of water softener salt within 15 yards around it. Now what do I do, call the nro, and he fines me for hunting near it and then have him lurking around and ruin my month of hunting, or use the young guy's inexperience to my advantage? I left the guy a note, telling asking him to move back 100 yards to let the deer use their late season trail, and we woudln't be ruining each others' hunting, and I would keep my mouth shut about hsi salt piles. Today, I check in the blind and he's moved in and left stuff inside and my note is gone.

From: 7273
04-Nov-12
See now the government has made u a illegal poacher and to be legal u must move 800 meters isn't that nice

From: Shaft
04-Nov-12
I must be missing something. Beartrack why wouldn't you call the warden about that guy that's baiting? He's ruining your legal hunting by using illegal means for his hunt. I would walk the game warden right up to that site and dare him or her I guess to nail the poacher. That's what their paid to do.

Are treaties and metis allowed to bait around Riding MOuntain? Page 21 of the hunting guide says that its illegal to feed deer, moose and elk along the west side of Manitoba. Why can't that be done all over?

I havent had any problems yet with baiting or metis and I hunt crown land in the south east. But I know that I wouldnt hesitate to get the bush cops involved if some greedy bass*** was messing up my hunting.

Didn't somebody start a thread on cleaning up the area northest of winnipeg? Anybody familiar with whats going on there? Are the wardens doing anything over there? Haven't heard from the guys who posted that.

From: Bear Track
04-Nov-12
I'm pretty sure I saw the guy's truck. I saw it pull out of the lanowner's driveway when I was going by. Says Ridgeline or Ridgetop Builders or something like that on it. Anyone know this guy?

From: Shaft
04-Nov-12
There's a ridgeline roofing in winnipeg. Off topic I guess but a deer baiter's a baiter.

04-Nov-12
Guys, from what I've been told metis and natives aren't affected by the baiting and feeding ban in the west. I personally know three metis who bait around riding mountain.

I just got back from 7 days hunting in saskatchewan where I hunted over bait. I can honestly say it was a great experience. I never saw a shooter buck but had many encounters. There was a ton of other guys in the same area baiting. Seemed like the bucks were skipping from bait to bait, much the same as in a farm/food source situation.

From: 7273
04-Nov-12
Caveman email me baitforall@gmail.com

04-Nov-12
Tim, I fired you a pm lol. I'm busy with work and won't be able to call till tomorrow afternoon.

04-Nov-12
Like Manitoba Bohuntr stated, the property line should void the 800 meter rule.

From: 7273
04-Nov-12
What about rifle hunters that hunt the big forests no property line for miles.

04-Nov-12
I am not disagreeing that baiting should or shouldn't be legal just agreeing with the above poster. I have hunted large expanses of forest and have never come across a bait pile because there are very few hunters in those areas.

I don't go looking for bait or feed piles. Please read what the guide (which is a summary of the law) states on p. 21, "It is illegal to: Hunt within 800 metres of bait placed for the PURPOSES of hunting in all areas of Manitoba." If the feed (non-hunters) or bait( hunters) is placed for non-hunting purposes hunt away. So if I found that someone was feeding deer as a leisure activity on adjacent property I am will continue to hunt my property, because the feed was placed for non-hunting PURPOSES.

From: Wild North
04-Nov-12
I wonder if they will have a baiting seminar at the Festival De Voyager this winter.

From: 7273
04-Nov-12
That is what changed it is illegal but they will not enforce it yet. But if they want they can charge u The antis r pushing conservation to post there land as a bait station to enforce the 800 meter rule think hard what that will do. This new rule which was passed was made for the Metis after the book was printed. The antis r aloud to bait the natives can bait keeping deer away from us. If the antis win this we r finished.

05-Nov-12
The whole guide needs to be re-written with proper clarification. "For the purpose of".....what's next, telling me what I can or can't feel emotionally???

Bottom line is this..... if you're within 800m of a pile of deer food, the NRO can (if he so desires) charge you! We need this type of stuff gone and clearer definitions of laws and regulations. It would make things easier on everyone...us, and law enforcers.

How about the whole food plot issue of it being lumped in as baiting? There's a perfect reason why the ancient regulations need changing!

In reality most NRO's are pretty good guys without intentions of convicting guys like those here. That said, the current regs make a hunter constantly wonder if he's breaking a law. What gets me is that just when you feel you're doing everything by the book....BANG...you're charged!

From: TOP PIN
05-Nov-12
Well as mentioned above ... Sask and Ont allow baiting but yet I would say the mature bucks harvested must be close to average between our Provinces. I see Sask having a very healthy deer herd so they seem o be doing something right.

I see two different topics here ... Baiting and Metis hunting rights,

Will baiting wipe out a deer herd ... Not likely !! But the guy shooting multiple deer over that pile will. If you look at the big picture I think this whole métis harvester cards is a disaster waiting to happen, the baiting is the small piece of the puzzle here in our Province.

What I don't get is in 2012 conservation restricts deer harvests to 1 per hunter due to low deer numbers.... But in the same year they issue more harvestor cards to Metis hunters. Metis harvestor cards allow multiple big game animals to be harvested per person ... Does that make sense ???

05-Nov-12
You are right Ryan, they can charge you. Basically it is up to their discretion. My above post merely argues any legitimate claim for charging someone knowingly hunting by a feed site, which is put there for a non-hunting purpose. They would have to prove intent, which would be difficult to do. Again they can charge you and this can lead to a not guilty verdict and thousands of dollars wasted in the legal system. So in the end the honest hunter will hunt else where, which is sad.

From: 7273
05-Nov-12
Hey we all see we have a big problem now let's figure out a way to fix this problem.

From: TOP PIN
05-Nov-12
Exactly Tim ...

Rather than post on here our frustrations lets come up with a plan to get our rights back in line !!!

Anyone have a plan or agenda to unite ...

From: 7273
05-Nov-12
I am working on it right now I will keep u posted

From: Bear Track
05-Nov-12
The seminar will be under the lazy 8...

From: 7273
05-Nov-12
I don't care if u hunt with bow gun muzzle or a rock we must come together on this one

From: Gumby
05-Nov-12
Let me know how this goes. We have no baiting problems out west here but that stems from not having the large population base you guys deal with in the east. I can hunt for days and never see anyone but that doesn't mean the scenarios presented above couldn't happen over here too. I'll be watching this thread.

From: 7273
05-Nov-12
K I'm getting pm telling me that 75% of u will not support or post if this is the case you r crazy if u think things will stay the same. If this is the case that's why these laws happen. As I said we sit back and do nothing. So fine let's end this thread and carry on good luck.

05-Nov-12
I'm of the opinion that a strong push through local game and fish clubs and a individual letter/email campaign will get our points across. Here's my plan.

Open this topic up for discussion with my parent game+fish (wawanessa) at the next meeting.

Talk with two contacts that are involved with other clubs and make them aware (Brandon+Tiger hills).

Emails sent to the minister of conservation, Manitoba wildlife federation and Manitoba conservation.

I think we would gain more momentum if we talk to and make everyone we know and make them aware.

The squeaky wheel get the grease guys. Let's raise hell!!!!

05-Nov-12
I'm of the opinion that a strong push through local game and fish clubs and a individual letter/email campaign will get our points across. Here's my plan.

Open this topic up for discussion with my parent game+fish (wawanessa) at the next meeting.

Talk with two contacts that are involved with other clubs and make them aware (Brandon+Tiger hills).

Emails sent to the minister of conservation, Manitoba wildlife federation and Manitoba conservation.

I think we would gain more momentum if we talk to and make everyone we know and make them aware.

The squeaky wheel get the grease guys. Let's raise hell!!!!

From: Gumby
05-Nov-12
I guess I should rephrase what I said. I don't have the same problems as you guys out east. There are guys around here that do put out bait for sure, illegally. The problem being that there are only 2 NR officers in the southwest corner of the province and they can't cover it all.

I sit on the fence with the baiting issue. Baiting does happen in Sask and they seem to be making out ok with it. Here in MB baiting isn't allowed but everyone knows that it does take place. I can agree with the idea that everyone should be on a level playing field, Native, Metis, and the rest of us. There is no way CO's are going to be able to enforce every rule break pertaining to baiting.

On the other hand is baiting really fair chase?? I don't really think so. It is using feed to draw them in. Not much different than a pea field though. It's a tough ball of wax to sort through for sure....

I guess by allowing baiting you'd allow hunters the choice to decide for themselves whether or not they wanted to bait or not.

05-Nov-12
You're not much of a hunter if you need a pile of bait to succeed, and yes a pile of bait is far different than a pea field because it draws the to one precise spot and not just to 80 acres of peas or corn or whatever. I could care less if guys bait but that rule sucks when it affects where I can hunt even though I didn't put the bait out and have no use for it.

05-Nov-12
You're not much of a hunter if you need a pile of bait to succeed, and yes a pile of bait is far different than a pea field because it draws the to one precise spot and not just to 80 acres of peas or corn or whatever. I could care less if guys bait but that rule sucks when it affects where I can hunt even though I didn't put the bait out and have no use for it.

From: 7273
05-Nov-12
It's not the fact of needing bait I have been against it all my life. With that being said when conservation makes it legal for antis and natives and tells me I cant hunt my own land that I paid for if they bait whitin a half mile I say no way. Also we have no other fight to fight this is unfortunately the only way to save hunting When they kick u off the land u hunt u might get it then. Jamie if u don't think this is real it is. Half a mile from a natives or antis bait u r a poacher sad but true

From: Gumby
05-Nov-12
7273 I think Jamie is agreeing with you if you reread his post. I too agree with you. When someone drops a pile of grain on their land and it turns you into a lawbreaker then there is something wrong. That law sucks big time. I don't agree with baiting but if is being done by other groups (and it is) then it's time to change it so everyone is getting a fair shake.

From: 7273
05-Nov-12
Thanks Gumby I guess I read it wrong sorry for the mishap Jamie

From: carcus
05-Nov-12
We should push to ban antlerless harvest as well, this is a huge reason why deer population is down and guys are not seeing as many deer, you can't take 10 breeding age does out of an area and expect to see deer! Just take a look at area 33, back 10 years ago I would pass 120 bucks on every outing, now I'm lucky to see one during the whole season!

From: carcus
05-Nov-12

From: carcus
05-Nov-12
I have no idea where that video came from? Lol

From: APauls
05-Nov-12
LOL Jason I was thinking this video doesn't illustrate seeing tons of deer 10 years ago??

Please don't even get me started on this subject. I have vented until I can't talk anymore. What nobody is saying is that i honestly believe the proportion of bowhunters that DON'T bait is smaller than those that do. I know a guy who bought the bordering piece I have hunted for the past 10 years and enjoyed great success on. Well his dad let it slip that yes there is a monster bait pile, and no I have not seen a single deer over the 4 solid days of hunting in that spot. I honestly could NOT believe it. This is a piece I have literally done AMAZING on and it sucks crap for me now. I moved on to an entirely different area I just have to get further away I can't stand these moron hunters and yes that is what you get around Birds Hill Park.

I started the thread about poaching earlier and Andre the CO has been asking me questions but what can I tell him? Hey I heard this family friend is baiting over there on his own land go give the 80 acres a walkthough? Right... I don't think he has the rights to go walking through there on a whim does he? And is it worth it to badmouth a family friend? I don't want any enemies out there.. I have enough equipment stolen without having people that i know of hating me.

I don't know I just wish it was legal for everyone and I will back that train, then everyone can decide for themselves whether they think it is ethical or not. Honestly it wouldn't make a big difference to the bowzones, cause if you talk to your local taxidermist he'll laugh at how many deer come in with oats and molasses in their fricking mouths...

So you an count me in to back it I guess is what I'm getting at.

From: 7273
05-Nov-12
Great post apauls I also was fighting against baiting and was in contact with Andre. They seem to be working hard on it but it will never stop. The problem u just described is going on all over there is only one fix. Bait for all. Then u can decide if u want to or don't.

05-Nov-12
My suggestion is to get a petition drafted and then get it signed.

Additionally, it does not help to denigrate a people group for certain rights that the government granted them. I think that most on here and other Manitoba hunters are starving for quality hunting opportunities. So we should be promoting sound game management practice and quality hunting opportunities (i.e. reinstitute baiting).

From: 7273
05-Nov-12
That is a great start then we should follow some of or all of cavemans ideas. If anyone has a place or idea where we can make plans or have a meeting to get this going please let us know. Any suggestions?

From: APauls
05-Nov-12
Depending on how many people show up I could supply a meeting place. We have a boardroom at work that could fit about 15 people comfortably. Past that we'd just have to meet in our open cabinet shop. But that is all I can provide. My house is way too small. But it is a start.

If we want to undertake something like this the first thing we need is someone who knows a little about the ins and outs of government and whoever the heck it is we'd be contacting for this sort of thing. Someone needs to take the lead. Nothing worse than a herd without a leader. (unless you're talking elk, than I don't really mind if they're a little stupid)

This meeting place would be on Gateway Rd in East Kildonan if that suits. I don't think we'd need that many people so much as the right people willing to follow it through. Most likely looking at a project that could last years if I was to venture a guess.

From: 7273
05-Nov-12
Thanks apauls K guys this is our start whoever has something to bring to the table or has ideas or knows any leader types let us know Also whoever does not want to post here but has something to help or whoever is going to support this pm me.

06-Nov-12
Hey guys, I've got most of the "disease" report done. I had notes at my two places and had to collect them all lol.

Listen, most NRO's are good guys. But they have bosses to answer to and its really tough to go against policy. They cut us all breaks, but a guy is in trouble if someone in that department decides you're a "bad" guy lol. I'm speaking from experience here, trust me. So we need to nip this problematic double standard in the bud right now!

From: TOP PIN
06-Nov-12
FYI

This might make things easy ... On December 12 the Seven Oaks Game & Fish is having their monthly meeting and the topic of discussion is the new metis harvestor license issues.

It might be a perfect opportunity to voice concerns and support all hunters ... Sink or swim fellas !!

Location: legion hall at corner of Main / Harford (downstairs) Time: 7:00 pm Date: December 12, 2012 (Wednesday)

If your not a member then I think it's a $2 drop in fee ... It's a great club ;) stop by !!!!!

Cheers

From: Wild North
06-Nov-12
I don't think it will be a problem on getting a conference room at sport Manitoba trough The Archers and bowhunters association of Manitoba for a meeting. And I can also have one of the heads of conservation there as well. Let me know, And I will set it up.

From: Wild North
06-Nov-12
I pretty much set everything up. We will meet after the season. I will post the meeting date soon.

Darren

From: Shaft
06-Nov-12
Is somebody doing up an agenda because free for all meetings never get anywhere. Just a bit** session and nothing good happens.

From: Wild North
06-Nov-12
It will be done right. A free for all will make us look like idiots. I have been to a few of those free for all meetings. The Bubba comes out of most guys. I know I joke around on here, but this is a serious situation we are dealing with. This meeting is not going to solve the problems we are having. It's just going to get our foot in the door to come to a solution "Baby Steps" as they say. We can have a meeting at my place to put together an agenda before hand. One evening in the next 2 weeks should work. let me know who wants to attend. Call or e-mail me 204-226-8718 or darrenshipp8@gmail.com

Darren

From: carcus
07-Nov-12
You guys should work on night hunting with lights as well, its not fair that some groups can do this while others can't? White guy gets charged, truck taken away, while a treaty can go ahead and giver, no that really sucks.

From: 7273
07-Nov-12
K guys we are not fighting natives rights. As we do not have rights we have a privilege to hunt they have a right. This is about one thing only,fighting to not loose our privilege. Antis and legal and non legal hunters can feed deer and push us off our own property which is crazy. This will effect our hunting stores our outfitters and tag sales if you loose your hunting property. If you have no where to hunt what do you need to buy.

07-Nov-12
Tim...no offense but your statement about hunting being a privilege is wherein one of our problems lies. Hunting isn't a privilege but rather a right. We've been brainwashed over the years to believe otherwise but it is indeed our right to take to the woods to bring home meat for our families. Did the first white settlers need to purchase a license to shoot a deer for food? Or...perhaps they just went to Safeway to buy their meat? It's not only the natives that needed to eat before fast food was introduced. Fast food were the ones that got away!

Wild animals have been placed here for us to use...being at the top of the food chain! Having regulations in place to control how much game is taken, and what time of year is best to harvest game, are very essential. That said, we need to get away from how "privileged" we are, and more into how our rights have been taken away. Chances of getting our rights back....NONE.... but let's stop the privilege stuff.

Unfortunately, the govt. and resources are motivated by $$$. Think how much more $$$ would be brought into the province if feeding deer for hunting purposes was legalized like Sask. Hunters would flock here to hunt with outfitters who could actually give the hunters a chance (for once) at harvesting a deer. I've guided plenty of deer hunters...and it's tough! Not only could outfitters charge more $$$ but all the tags would get sold every year due to success rates soaring. It wouldn't affect locals as there are already limited non-resident tags, but would increase industry rurally as well as put more $$ is resources pocket. Again...I'm really not a fan of feeding programs but am sharing the things govt. and resources need to hear.

Sorry for the rant...just some ideas...Ry

From: 7273
07-Nov-12
I could not agree more I was giggling when I posted that because NR told me on the phone we do not have rights but have a privilege.

07-Nov-12
Darren I suggest that you post on www.manitobahuntingforums.com to get the word out.

From: bigbuck
07-Nov-12
I will be there at the meeting and I sure as hell hope the rest of you are as well!

From: APauls
07-Nov-12
Well said Ryan. I agree 100%. The only problem I have is meeting in the next couple weeks.

I'm super busy at work trying to at least free up my weekends cause its kind of the rut.... And I need to kill a nonbaited, nonlighted, nonroadhunted buck. Best of luck to the rest of you that also need to fill your tags!

I'm thinking Saturday is going to be a perfect weather candidate for the heater body suit!!!

From: Wild North
07-Nov-12
I received your e-mail David. It looks great. Lets all get back to our hunting routine, and finish the 2012 season. Whats done is done for this year. We won't be able to change anything right now. Lets make the meeting for after the new year, when things slow down a little. What do you think?

07-Nov-12
Sounds good Darren. Now for 2 all day sits in a row come Saturday and Sunday, ya! And yes, the heater body suit will be making an appearance.

From: APauls
08-Nov-12
Yup, looking at the forecast thinking I am very happy I have an hbs to slip into... -10 with 25km winds can get very cold after an entire day. Good thing I can nuke my lunch inside the hbs lol...

08-Nov-12
Who said anything about road hunting! I can shoot my recurve out either side of my van's rolling side doors. Put on a lightning mcqueen movie for the kids, and get the wife to drive.....now that's hunting!

From: Tyler
08-Nov-12
Good luck with everything guys. Wish I could be there to support. Oh and good luck with the hunting!

From: Wild North
08-Nov-12
I missed a monster today. I should have stayed home. Now that mental image of the miss is going to be in my head for 6 months. Why do they duck the arrow sometimes :( Lightning Mcqueen, huh, I don't have that one !

From: carcus
09-Nov-12
Darren, I think a faster bow would help! Seriously, I feel your pain, been there done that, usually only happens on the big one though!

From: Bear Track
09-Nov-12
The only ones that duck your arrows are the ones you've shot at before!

It's a learned escape and avoidance technique, the deer you hunt have.

From: Wild North
09-Nov-12
Yeh, I was thinking of pulling the 60lb longbow off the rack for that extra speed.......lol

From: North@Hunter
10-Nov-12
I am disgusted with the ignorance of you Non Aboriginal so called hunters. Trying to plan and organize your little club house meetings? What is it you plan to accomplish? Take away OUR RIGHTS as Aboriginal People? Our rights are our rights, which doesn't even justify the generations of genocide the Europeans and the Canadian government has inflicted on our people. Canada's dirty little secret to kill the Indian did not work, but it has affected our people in so many ways. alcoholism, poverty, child welfare, etc, do you think this was a part of our way of life before the settlers arrived? Our people were and still are a kind and welcoming people, which is the only reason why the first European settlers on the East Coast survived. Scurvy nearly wiped out most of the Europeans on their journey over, the ones that made it were welcomed by our people who then nourished them back to health and then showed them how to hunt and live off the land. Our medicines and way of life was shared, so in fact it is a privilege not a right for the Non Aboriginals to hunt let alone own pieces of the land that was taken in the first place.

Now what happened with the signing of the Treaties and the Residential School systems (which saw our people abused verbally, mentally, physically, emotionally, and sexually by White Priests and Nuns), is a whole other topic, but when it comes to harvesting rights and all of this nonsense that is being pursued here, I feel it is my duty to advocate and speak up on the behalf of our people. I hear a lot of people on this thread mention what they feel is their rights and some of it is understandable. Especially if you are uneducated in your own Countries truth and history. I usually don't reply to these types of threads, in the past I have learned to hold my tongue and accept peoples ignorance. It usually results in more bashing of our people by Non Aboriginals anyway. But this is a hunting site full of outdoorsmen who I assume have some sort of intelligence and humility to just listen and maybe learn. But then again there is some certain people on this thread who run their own Taxidermy business that make statements such as "natives will and always will come first in this province" and "I wonder if they will have a baiting seminar at the Festival De Voyager this winter" which is just plain disrespectful and ignorant especially coming from a so called outdoorsmen/business owner. Give your head a shake. As for taking your business and family to another province, please do. Our province can do without another ignorant, racist white man who will probably raise his children on the same grounds. It would also open more opportunities for the two up and coming Aboriginal Taxidermists that I know of.

Now back to business here. This thread started out on concerns of baiting laws and it has led to attacks on Metis hunters and Treaty hunters. With my previous statements and facts, I am sure there is going to be a lot of comments and more attacks on Aboriginal People feel free to bring them on we've heard them all anyway. But before you all get defensive and start firing back, do your research then decide what kind of people you want to be. If after knowing that you belong to a country that tried to wipe out a race of beautiful people by colonization. Taking away their sacred land, infesting blankets with small pox to wipe out the indian race, imprisoning them for practicing their spirituality, taking away their children putting them into residential schools where they beaten if they spoke their language and sexually assaulted by the priests and nuns. After all of this has been done the Government of Canada offers an apology after over 100 years and a few thousand dollars. People wonder why our people are suffering look at what has been done to us. Now we are left with our reserves on the crappiest places of the province, half of them flood every year, some of them don't have running water, and some are not even accessible by vehicle. Just for one moment all of you non Aboriginals think. What if a government went into your Country, Ukraine, Germany, France, wherever it is you may originate from. Now Imagine being told you can't speak Ukrainian, or you cant live that way, you gotta live this way or you get stoned or go to jail. Then imagine they take your precious little children make them speak a foreign language, beat them, rape them, then send back home an expect them to live a normal life. This may be harsh and something a lot of people don't care to hear but this is our harsh reality that we live with. Yes We do have our rights here in manitoba and a lot people may not like it, but like I mentioned earlier it does nothing to justify what was been done.

You all can go ahead and have your little garage room meetings to bitch and complain how unfair you think life is. But remember there is more important things in life to ponder on. Focus on being good conservationists and continue to walk on the land in a gentle way. Humans are human and will make mistakes. But understand Hunting, Fishing, Trapping are OUR RIGHTS and YOUR PRIVILEGE. It doesn't mean both sides our going to respect and not abuse these rights either. But hopefully there can be some understanding and leading by example. In all my years hunting and living off the land Ive met many individuals - Non Aboriginals who've always had something negative to say toward our people and our rights, and I've respected their opinions and held my tongue. Today I speak up for once. I promise that I will take this further to my government and leaders and make them aware of all of your ignorant and selfish intentions. Also in all my years and journeys despite everything that has happened to our people, i have never once in my life heard any of my people once say anything negative about non aboriginal hunters.

11-Nov-12
North@Hunter

I hear you, but you need to hear me. For me this isn't a race issue. I could care less what the color of the skin is. I could get my metis status but refuse to use a flawed system (harvester cards) that promotes a sense of entitlement in SOME, not all.

There's bad guys in every group, the native who shot a cow moose right out from under my camp in the Duck mountains this past fall even with a hunting ban in place, the metis who showed up at the local meat plant with FOUR ELK AND SIX DEER last january....and openly admitted it way more than he needed, and the white guy who fills his wifes, kids, and neighbors tag every fall. All these people have a misplaced sense of entitlement and I dislike them all equally.

But as a licensed hunter I've been told I can't bait, or even plant food for the animals I want to hunt and have been given rationales to as why by the department that my license money funds. Now that department has said its ok for status hunters to do so? This policy promotes a double standard that only SOLIDIFIES the hatred some feel. This is one policy where the licensed hunter can feel like we're playing on a "level" playing ground. I know that's all I want.

You bring up all the social injustices your people have endured.....and I feel your pain more than you know. I can't tell you what or why I do because its work related and therefore confidential. But "my" people (I'm half ukrainian) also endured the same thing in their home country, then again here in canada. Look it up if you feel so inclined to do so. Genocide, intentional starvation at the hands of the russians, then internment by the Canadian government. Add in that ukrainian settlers often got some of the worst land "given" to them. So what I'm saying is we all get crapped on, its up to us to work through it and move past it, not the governments. Using past events as a rational for bad behavior only incites more hatred from others. I understand this takes time though and some people need to be patient and feel some compassion.

We live in 2012, not 1912. Many treaties where drafted when wildlife could sustain a high level of sustinace harvest. But modern reality is there's more people of all colors using a dwindling resource. I personally need wild meat to live on for health reasons. So I feel hunting the animals that I look after on my land is my RIGHT, not privilege. Now its time we ALL work towards positive, modern wildlife management. I think that's the intention of this "group" North@Hunter.

Finally, I apologize if any of my previous comments made you feel threatened, it was never my intent.

Ryan

11-Nov-12
North@Hunter,

Wow! Gotta say..."very nicely written post"! Some very sound arguments and very true information you brought to the table. That said, also some very disturbing and insulting words.

"Non Aboriginal so called hunters"....really...did you actually say that? We should really get together and discuss animal behaviour, travel patterns, growth cycles, and pursuit techniques. Then we could compare equipment used for hunting and abilities. I not only think, but know, that you'd be very surprised about the majority of vocal guys here, and have a new appreciation for us "so called hunters". You may surprise me/us and leave us understanding your words, but also may find yourself feeling like a "so called hunter".

I have nothing but respect for the traditional hunting ways of Canada's Native peoples. I fully understand that the brokenness of the same people has much to do with white settlers. That was a very long time ago, and plenty of our countries money is poured into that horrible mistake and wrongdoing. The issue being argued here has nothing to do with taking away Native rights....no-one here wants that!

"What kind of people do we want to be?" I think that's why we're all here discussing this issue. We all want something better for us and our children and the generations to come. That's why all of us "so called hunters" are role modelling how to handle issues that are dear to our hearts. Role modelling and "showing" our children rather than "telling" our children is the way to a healthier Canada.

I've already gone on too long here. Gotta go sharpen broad heads and shoot stickbows with the kids. I hope you have the same plans!

Ryan

From: Wild North
11-Nov-12
Well said Ryan,

Like I said before, whats done is done for this year. Lets enjoy the rest of the season, doing what we love to do, and what ever equipment we love to do it with. We will put all our heads together after the new year, and see what we can come up with. I set everything up with Manitoba Conservation, and the ABAM for a meeting when we are ready. Shoot strait !!!!

From: 7273
11-Nov-12
Wow that is one welcoming post u r right u sure no how to welcome people. Now if u would have read it all u would realize we r not trying to take your rights.

From: Shaft
11-Nov-12
Don't feed the trolls! Just get his inflammatory post nuked!

From: Shaft
11-Nov-12
7273. When I read your post about someone telling you that hunting was a privilege I got to thinking about an announcement made a couple years ago. Seemed to me a warden at our game and fish meeting said that we now had a right to hunt and fish. So I worked my old fingers and came up with this link http://www.canlii.org/en/mb/laws/stat/ccsm-c-h185/latest/ccsm-c-h185.html

Hunters and fishermen and even trappers have legal right to hunt, fish and trap. Its not a privilege. You should talk to that NR guy again and tell him to look up his own laws.

From: Wild North
11-Nov-12
Mr/Mrs North@hunter,

When did I ever make a racial remark towards aboriginals. I have many friends and family members that are aboriginal, I have helped aboriginal organization on different subjects towards hunting. And I have mentored a young aboriginal, "Louis" for the past 10 years, and he took his first deer with a longbow at 15 years old with me. And I have to say,I am proud of him, because he will be a doctor in 2 years. I have a good customer from Fort Alex. His young boy is really interested in longbows. So when they were here in the winter to pick up their antlers, I took him and his boy downstairs and showed them my longbow collection. Then I said to his son, pick one, and its yours. So don't tread on me. I'm sorry your still stuck in the past.

The topic here is poor wildlife management. I never said we should take the aboriginal Rights away. It would just be great if we could work together.

From: 30yd-max
13-Nov-12
"But understand Hunting, Fishing, Trapping are OUR RIGHTS and YOUR PRIVILEGE. " Don"t understand why it"s not are right also?? Hunting is one of the most basic necessities of living,U need to eat,if going for food at safeway or in the bush its just a different way of doing it. Again North@Hunter nobody here said anything about attacking your rights,we understand them,but our concern is a more level playing field and trying to have populations withstand the pressure that seems to have increased.Its working together and communicating that we can maybe achieve this.

From: Gumby
13-Nov-12
You know something North@Hunter you have some deep seated issues you need to deal with. The points you and others like you (the people that keep dredging up the past) keep on beating and beating over and over again have been heard before and addressed. Everyone knows that yes the First Nations were treated absolutely horrendously back 200,100,50,25 years ago. Numerous people in postions of leadership within the First Nations community have all said it's time to live in the now and get over the past. Not forget it by any means but get over it. There is no chance of advancement if the past is not let go of. Maybe it's time you sought the advice of one of these leaders instead of letting past injustices eat you up..... which actually was never the purpose of this thread to begin with.

From: APauls
13-Nov-12
Well, glad that got sorted out. Not even going to go there because the right things have already been said. Thanks guys.

Anyways, I was talking this over with my dad, and he mentioned one very good point. Food for thought if we are not able to get as far as we hope.

As for a plan : If someone who has their own hunting land is charged with hunting over a bait that has been placed by a metis or status indian near the area they are hunting we take it to court. When it is fought in the PUBLIC eye and it is obvious that there is a basic difference between rights and the way it takes away a our way of life (Because YES we have rights too) things get done a lot quicker. You can't tell me a judge could convict the guy. If he is not convicted a law MUST be changed. Also, we would NEVER want to take away rights from our metis and status brothers. What is the only reasonable option left?

Enable baiting for all - because the reasons against are obviously wrong and a double standard anyway. I could be a little over simplistic on this one. I also say we can save this option because I know that there isn't a single guy on here that wants to volunteer to be charged with a hunting infraction. That is why I say it is food for thought. Every once in a while I get so upset that catch me on the right day it gets easier to volunteer...

Also, a person is innocent until proven guilty. So like everything else that winds up in the courts if it takes a while you are still allowed to hunt and all that until someone decides you are not allowed to. I don't even know what the penalty is - it might be a fine I have no clue. Anyways we can look into that too if conservation is at the meeting we can ask them. If the punishment does not take away our right to hunt I'm sure we'd have volunteers myself among them.

Anyways... Food for Thought. Man I really wish I didn't have to work this week...

From: mb hunter
08-Dec-12
I'm new to the sight but i would be willing to go to any meeting that has to do with wildlife management. I agree with many of your points. Im not that concerned with baiting(either way), but food plots? Conservation needs to hear the facts and they need to know we have had enough of these laws meant strictly to scare us away from doing something. Outlawing feeding deer in or out of season is not the answer in my opinion, many seasons go into january, i love feeding the deer all winter, helping out the herd if I wasn't allowed to feed deer it would take away a large portion of why i enjoy owning my own recreational land.

From: Shaft
12-Jan-13
Is anything happening with this? I thot there was going to be a meeting? We can't let this fall to the curb ppl.

14-Jan-13
I thought so to but I guess it isn't happening?

From: 7273
14-Jan-13
K let's get a meeting going Mr Ship is going to try and get us a place today. Then we can get a date for the meeting.

From: Wild North
17-Jan-13
I will be talking to them this weekend.My life is super busy right now, so someone is going to have to step up to the plate and get this going.

From: Tyler
19-Jan-13
Adam said he had a meeting place for 15 people not sure how big of a meeting place you guys need but this seems to be going nowhere real fast just as usual. Adam is away hunting dogs this weekend someone should make the effort to contact him. According to google maps im 21,451 km away the route they suggest takes 470 hours, it includes ferrys, has toll roads and crosses through multiple countries. realistically i think im about 20 hours away and about 12000 km. make it happen guys, im pretty useless to you guys is my point but want to see something happen.

From: britfan
29-Jan-13
Gumby u hit the nail right on the proverbial head. "Idle No More" my as long as things continue to be run as they have been for many years things will not change for the better for either Natives or taxpaying Canadians. North hunter get over it and move forward donèt get stuck in the past.

From: Tyler
01-Feb-13
3 months after the issue is brought up and still nothing......

01-Feb-13

From: MANITOBABEAR
11-Jan-15
any new update about this? as it's been 2-3 years?

  • Sitka Gear