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Why shoot small bucks??


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Messages posted to thread:
2Shea 07-Nov-12
Zipnthru 07-Nov-12
wvbownut 07-Nov-12
2Shea 07-Nov-12
deerslayer 07-Nov-12
soundman 07-Nov-12
bicster 07-Nov-12
Babysaph 07-Nov-12
Babysaph 07-Nov-12
Babysaph 07-Nov-12
Babysaph 07-Nov-12
bicster 08-Nov-12
TexasAggie 08-Nov-12
slimer2425 08-Nov-12
KAdams 08-Nov-12
soundman 08-Nov-12
slimer2425 08-Nov-12
Babysaph 08-Nov-12
slimer2425 08-Nov-12
KAdams 09-Nov-12
wvbownut 09-Nov-12
2Shea 09-Nov-12
Spec 10-Nov-12
pocahunter 10-Nov-12
wvbownut 10-Nov-12
JacksMt 10-Nov-12
Jack Whitmrie jr 11-Nov-12
JayD 11-Nov-12
Babysaph 11-Nov-12
Babysaph 11-Nov-12
Babysaph 11-Nov-12
Babysaph 11-Nov-12
Babysaph 11-Nov-12
Babysaph 11-Nov-12
Spec 11-Nov-12
Spec 11-Nov-12
gobbler 13-Nov-12
slimer2425 14-Nov-12
gobbler 14-Nov-12
soundman 15-Nov-12
mudflap 16-Nov-12
slimer2425 16-Nov-12
Babysaph 16-Nov-12
Babysaph 16-Nov-12
pocahunter 16-Nov-12
mountain william 16-Nov-12
gobbler 16-Nov-12
Babysaph 16-Nov-12
Bob Dunn 16-Nov-12
hookman 17-Nov-12
strutter18 17-Nov-12
gobbler 17-Nov-12
strutter18 17-Nov-12
gobbler 17-Nov-12
gobbler 17-Nov-12
Babysaph 17-Nov-12
HillBilly 19-Nov-12
2Shea 19-Nov-12
soundman 21-Nov-12
Babysaph 21-Nov-12
snrockey 13-Dec-12
Babysaph 13-Dec-12
hoppies56 13-Dec-12
tailchaser23 13-Dec-12
soundman 13-Dec-12
Babysaph 14-Dec-12
WV Mountaineer 14-Dec-12
hookman 16-Dec-12
Babysaph 16-Dec-12










From: 2Shea ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 07-Nov-12


I may be wrong, but I'm just wondering why people continue to shoot small bucks after killing 1 decent buck already during the year? I know a guy who shot a nice buck this year then turned right around and shot a spike? Asked him why he shot the small one and he says "I wanted to shoot something"...

Why not shoot a doe for the meat rather than shooting a young buck that doesn't get the chance to mature? I just don't understand it..For any of you guys who shoot the first buck you see, I'm not trying to downgrade you or anything but I just wonder why you would shoot a nice buck then shoot 1 or 2 more small bucks? Why not take a big doe if you are meat hunting?

You all want to whine and complain that WV doesn't have big bucks (well yes we do you just have to move off the 4 wheeler trail) but then you go and shoot 3 bucks with 2 of them being about 1.5 years old....think about it, you can't grow anything with decent size if you shoot everything you see...

You can't say "Well if I don't shoot it, then someone else will", you just can't think like that. Because if you kill a 4 point and the next guy over kills a spike then that's 2 bucks dead..However if you let the 4 point go and the next guy kills it, then you just saved a spike to grow until next year. Passing on small bucks will help I guarantee it.

Sorry for venting, just wondering if anyone else thinks the same way I do about this..If more people would learn to harvest does rather than small bucks you would be amazed at how much better your hunting location will get.

From: Zipnthru ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 07-Nov-12


What if your doe population is already reduced? Why shoot a doe and take out next years offspring, possibly killing 3 deer at once (the doe and possible twins).

Not everyone complains about not seeing big bucks, allot do and think they know the answer for everyone else but it's just opinions, (that'll stir it up) but for me I'm happy with shooting bucks and not killing the females unless the herd is majorly out of balance.

It might come from a background of raising our own livestock, 1 bull many cows, kill and eat or sell the young males (steers) by that point and repopulate the herd with the cows.

I'm not arguing for one way or another here but just trying to answer your question "why shoot a young buck" and offer an opinion from my point of view.

From: wvbownut ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 07-Nov-12


shoot whatever you want as long as it is legal. Who cares if it is a spike or a big buck as long as the person shooting it is happy. Ask the little girl who killed her first buck with a bow (spike) if she would want someone telling her she can't shoot it because it is too small. we are supposed to be free to choose provided we have the proper tags and by someone telling me you have to shoot a certain size buck on my property is not right.

From: 2Shea ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 07-Nov-12


This thread was not directed at anyone just to clear that up in case anyone was thinking it was. But I understand and totally respect the opinion from you guys. I never said anything about being happy and shooting an animal. I love seeing kids kill animals and enjoy hunting so I would never tell a woman or child that they shouldn't be killing small deer. Heck I even enjoy seeing my friends kill deer as long as they are happy about what they killed.

I was referring back to what the guy told me about "I wanted to shoot something"...I agree, if it makes you happy then shoot it, I would never tell someone not to shoot a deer because it is small. It is a personal choice, but I personally just have more enjoyment chasing mature deer (like we said each person has their own opinion). The MAIN THING I guess I'm saying is why would someone shoot a buck just to say they killed a buck? If you have already killed a nice deer that you were happy about during the year why would you want to shoot something smaller than what you have already killed? I just don’t see how someone can be excited and happy for shooting a little deer after killing something big during the year. Doesn't make sense to me, I think they are just shooting it to say they got another buck. I mean do we really have to harvest a 1.5 year old deer just to have bragging rights saying we killed a buck. I think for some people it’s just an ego issue and if they kill a buck rather than a doe their friends will think they are a better hunter? I dunno but killing any animal with a bow I believe is a great accomplishment, so I love seeing people take down animals with a bow.

As far as the reduced deer population part, I hunt in a part of the state where you don't see many deer at all. Hunting is hard and we don't have many deer so I don't kill does on my home property. However, I don't shoot small bucks on it either. We used to shoot about any buck that we saw and yeah while it was always nice killing something during the year, I finally got a nice deer and from then on shooting the small ones just wasn't the same anymore. I decided that since I had killed one decent deer that I wanted to finally kill something worth showing off and the only way to do that would be to manage a better property and allow deer to mature. I have become very selective and try to hunt for mature deer on my property now and yeah it may not be easy and I may not always kill something but I love seeing big bucks on my cameras and knowing there could be a big boy walk by at any time (its a choice I made and understand not everyone agrees with it). Many times I come up empty handed but just being out there I believe is rewarding enough for me. When I need meat or want to kill something on video (I video most of my hunts) I will go somewhere to public land that has a greater deer population and look to take a doe. I just don't get the point of shooting one smaller than I have already harvested during that season just because I wanted to shoot something else.

I love seeing people kill deer and seeing them happy, so hopefully everyone has a great season and tags the buck that makes them excited. I am by no means telling you not to shoot small deer. I’m just saying if you have taken a nice deer this year, maybe consider not shooting the next little one that walks by that way next year you may have another nice one to shoot at.

From: deerslayer ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 07-Nov-12


I personally have worked hard my entire life, and with my hard earned money I decided to purchase 10 acres in Jefferson county. I plan to someday build a house on that property, but in the mean time I primarily use it to hunt. I can only say that in the 7 or 8 years that I've owned/hunted the property there have been many small bucks that I passed on during bow season, only to hear them shot with a rifle minutes later.

I used to always see a deer or two on my property when hunting, but the past couple of years I rarely even see deer there. That being said I am forced to shoot ANY LEGAL deer I see, when I see it.

From: soundman ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 07-Nov-12


I see both sides to the question, and here's my $0.02 worth. It depends on the circumstance of the individual. I say it your choice to shoot what you want within the limits of the law. If the DNR says a 4" spike is legal, then so be it. I think our choices change as hunters over the course of our hunting lifetimes. There was a time I bought all the tags I could and did my level best to fill them all. Then I went through a phase where I wanted to fill my walls with trophies. Now, I'm just glad to still be able to hunt. Last Saturday I saw a dandy buck, but he never came closer than 50 yards. So having already filled my first archery tag on a nice doe, I passed on a 4 point and small racked 8 point yesterday. That was my choice. There was a time I would have taken that 4 point, and I'd have never got to see that small 8 point making a scrape behind me, or come to my grunt call with the hair on his back and neck raised up looking for a fight. The point is, sometimes it is better to let the small ones walk. After all, that dandy buck I saw Saturday used to be a 4 point too.

From: bicster ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 07-Nov-12


I myself find great reward in shooting any deer with a bow. I just don't understand the macho mentality of having to only shoot something with a large rack. I choose not to use all the latest gadgets and try to use woodsmanship to get within bow range. I use a longbow with my own homemade wood arrows, no sights, elevated rest, or rangefinders. I also don't use bait or trail cameras. With all that being said, I don't force you to hunt by my choices. Use and shoot what is legal if you find satisfaction by it.

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 07-Nov-12


Because they are not considered a hunter unless they shoot bucks. Will never change in this state.

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 07-Nov-12


Not everyone whines about not having big bucks. That is the problem. Guys just want to kill a buck. Rifle or doe. Most hunters in this state will kill anything.

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 07-Nov-12


2shea. You are Wasting your breath. We have hashed this out before.,it will never change unless we have laws passed to reduce the buck kill

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 07-Nov-12


I think you can see from this thread that the majority of hunters in this state simply do not want to reduce their buck kill. I know because of this I go out of state to kill big bucks

From: bicster ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 08-Nov-12


I didn't start hunting until I moved to WV when I was in my late twenties. I didn't know anyone who could teach me so it took me three years before I had my first bowkill. That hunt took place on public land and I am very proud of that accomplishment. In my opinion, any bowkill is a trophy. If I hunted somewhere where there was antler restrictions then I would gladly abide by them.

From: TexasAggie ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 08-Nov-12


Shoot what you want within the law. Period. I like to see big bucks as much as the next guy, but I whacked a 2.5 year old 7 point that would have grown into a monster in the urban hunt. Why? The point of the urban hunt is to kill deer.

From: slimer2425 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 08-Nov-12


Unfortunately, there isn't a one size fits all answer for this problem other than reducing the buck kill to one per hunter.

It doesn't take a wildlife biologist to see that if you shoot every 1.5 year old that you'll never have 3.5 or 4.5 year old bucks around. It's also very disheartening to pass on a young buck only to hear shots ring out after that buck jumps the fence. I've been there plenty of times. If you're on a small track of land, the deck is stacked against you unless you can form a co-op with your neighbors. Without that, it will always be an uphill battle. Deer travel so much, especially during Nov. so it's nearly impossible to hold deer on small tracks of land, especially the 10 acre tract mentioned above.

For myself, shooting young bucks isn't my thing. It's a personal choice. On our land, the guys aren't allowed to shoot small bucks. It's our land, that's the rules, they know it, and they know if they have to fill a desire to kill, there are other places in the state they can do that. New hunters, women, & kids, we treat differently. They have the green light on any deer.

We focus on management 365 days a year. The seasoned hunters know & accept this. The only time we drop the management guard is for the kids & newbies. Hunting takes on a new meaning & purpose then.

From: KAdams ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 08-Nov-12


I believe that like always there is two sides, both ethical to this issue. I have several friends that honestly do not care about rack size. They hunt for the thrill of just seeing animals and the chance to fill up their freezer. As far as the shoot does for meat theory. Where I hunt in Mcdowell there is little to no deer population. To shoot a doe there I believe would be to hard on the population. In my opinion the ability to harvest a doe should be cut out all together in those counties simply to help the deer herd. As far as rack size. The media with all their glory and QDM has installed this idea that you are not a hunter unless you can kill a record book deer. Every time you turn on a hunting show the object of these guys is to kill the biggest deer in the woods. Now I can remember a time when the only object on my mind was to see a deer and maybe have a chance to harvest it. I believe the quantity of deer allowed to be killed in this state should decrease. If not three bucks then maybe two. To make a long story short there is nothing wrong with someone shooting what ever makes them happy. Who am I to judge. To put it simple if you asked my great grandad to pass on a small buck for the chance at a bigger one he would simply say "boy tell me a recipe where you can eat those horns and I gladly will." I practice shooting mature animals because it is more of a challenge to me. For some just shooting a deer is the challenge. As for the guy who shoots the large buck just to shoot a spike tomorrow I ask what is his opinion. If he does not care about rack size then there is nothing wrong with him doing just that. If he is always preaching QDM then he is a Hypocrit but that still does not make it wrong for him to harvest either animal.

From: soundman ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 08-Nov-12


I'm blessed to have a small couple hundred acres of overgrown unfarmed land to hunt basically exclusively. I know some bucks make it through rifle season simply because there are places on the property I won't go unless I have to recover a downed deer from there. There's everything the deer need to hold them there. I know some will travel to adjoining property and get shot, but some will stay put and survive. I've seen the quality of bucks on the property improve over the last 4 years I've hunted there simply because of the lack of hunting pressure. So far, there have been 2 does harvested this year. Last saturday, I saw the big 8, a four, 2 button bucks, (so close under my stand I could see the nubs) but only 2 mature does. My brother saw a spike that I haven't seen yet. My point is, now the buck to doe ratio looks like it's starting to favor the bucks, so do you now kill a small buck if given the chance? Thats part of what I meant about circumstances, If I get to the end of the season, and have passed on a lot of deer, and only have one in the freezer, I may shoot whatever I have the chance to in the last few days of the season.

From: slimer2425 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 08-Nov-12


KAdams, I agree with about all of your post except the part about QDM instilling the idea that you're not a hunter unless you kill a record book deer. I do agree that the media plays a large role in it. We all sit & watch the Sportsman's Channel or the Outdoor Channel and see people laying down 180" bucks every year. It's easy to get wrapped up in that.

I have spent alot of time with QDMA folks and I have never heard someone (an employee of the organization) make that claim about record book deer. Their focus is on hunter education, the overall health of the herd and being a good steward to the land & game. They don't advocate the mass slaughter of does nor do they think an 8 year old should hold out for a 4.5 year old buck for his first kill ever, both major misconceptions. I'm not saying there aren't folks out there that say that. There are radicals on every track of land all over the country, but they don't represent the organization.

My point is simply this. Yes, I agree there seems to be this urgency with killing record book deer. There is a glory attached to that and people want their 15 minutes of fame. I do feel the media plays a large role in it. BUT, lumping QDMA into that group as part of the problem is painting with a broad brush. If a person would take the time to get the magazine and browse the website, I think they would have a better understanding of what QDM & QDMA is all about.

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 08-Nov-12


The simple fact ot the matter for our state is the people that just want a brown its down deer far outnumber the people that want a nicer buck. Its just that simple. Not to mention that the DNR depends on revenue from tags. We will just not police ourselves. It won't happen. For it to happen the DNR has to reducec the buck kills if that is what they truly want. That won't happen either. Just the way it is here. For that reason I will kill what everyone else does here for the freezer and go elsewhere for bigger bucks. Also I have friend that use the "can't eat the horns" excuse. What that translates to IMO, is " I just want to shoot a deer".

From: slimer2425 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 08-Nov-12


Babysaph, I agree. Two things need to happen. #1 There needs to be a change in the hunting culture in WV #2 The DNR needs to make changes to the regs & bag limits that reflect a more management oriented approach. Probably in reverse order. Chances are, neither will happen.

Can't eat the horns, it's a management deer, needed to get this one out of the herd, there are just too many spikes & forkies around here, yep, they all translate to "I just wanted to shoot something." Just wanting to shoot something is perfectly acceptable, just be honest about it.

From: KAdams ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 09-Nov-12


slimer2425 I must further my statement from earlier to state I was not refering to the QDMA. I know what the organization is about and totally agree with their views. In my earlier post I was talking about the hunters that we all see on TV that say they are practicing QDM by only killing record book deer. We all know that trully practicing QDM means balancing the deer herd in each area based on the needs of that area. Wether that means killing nothing but does or culling the buck herd to a fewer number. I know it is hard to believe but certain areas actually have to many bucks. On my trail camera this year on my property I had numerous bucks but very little does. To make a long story short I wish the days of someone just being happy to be in the woods was back and all of this mentallity that one must kill a record book deer or else was gone.

From: wvbownut ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 09-Nov-12


I'm not one for antler restrictions of any type. I'd like to see what other states have kill one or two (preferably one) buck does not matter the width or how many points just kill one (or two) antlered deer. Let the hunter decide if the buck is big enough.

From: 2Shea ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 09-Nov-12


Babysaph I realize its a losing battle, and I agree that going to places such as Ohio, Kentucky, etc will give you a better chance at a big buck. But why shoot the 1st thing you see if its a small buck if you are just filling the freezer here in WV? Does taste just as good as bucks (remember cant eat the horns)...Thats my point, why shoot a small buck rather than a doe if you are meat hunting and then going out of state to Big buck hunt?

slimer2425 exactly what I'm talking about, dont make up the excuses about shooting something small, just man up and say you wanted to kill something I have no problem at all with ppl killing deer dont get me wrong. Its their choice not mine, my property is doing good, I would just like to see other people try to create a better deer herd. I guess I just don't understand the part about shooting small bucks just to kill something but thats just me.

I realize that all you guys probably think the same way I do about the WV regs, but nothing in this state will change until we put in new regulations that allow hunters to take a reduced number of bucks. Or just like Slimer2425 said, the culture of hunters in WV has got to change. We must get out of the mind set that if I let it walk then someone else is going to shoot it...Yea that might be the case but rather than you killing a small buck and him killing a small buck, if you let it walk, now only 1 buck is dead and you saved 1.....I hunted in a club that 1 year shot 19 bucks (15 of which were 4 pt of smaller!!!)..thats alot of small deer and then year after year ppl killed small deer, we never saw big bucks it was all 6 pt of smaller WELL we finally decided to allow deer to walk and grow and within 3 or 4 years the average buck being killed was at least a basket rack 8 with some of them being really nice deer that we would've never had the chance at in the previous years..the deer will grow if you are patient and give them time.

I guess that's just how my view of it is. I love hunting for mature deer and managing my land. We have been doing some QDM for the past few years and it is making a huge difference. We recently put in food plots on our small tract of land and hope to keep the deer healthy all winter and summer long so that next year these bucks will continue to grow and mature. We don't have a certain size limit on what can be shot, but we don't go Rambo style and shoot everything that walks thru either.

I checked my cameras yesterday and have 3 more shooters on my property that I have never seen before until now and 1 video has 3 bucks (2 mature, 1 small 8 pt) standing off trying to show dominance. I 100% believe these big deer came to my property because we already had a big mature buck on it. If I would've shot that buck when he was small then I would almost guarantee that none of the 3 shooters would be on my property right now.

I would love to see WV go to 1 buck limit or heck even 2 would be better; but right now small bucks just don't have a chance with most of the hunters around this state.

From: Spec ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 10-Nov-12


2shea you are fighting a losing battle. But please keep up the fight. I have let plenty walk and will continue to do so. I have went many seasons without harvesting anything just so the little ones can grow. That is the difference in being a hunter not a killer. Which I am sad to say that most people are happy just to go out and kill something. So let them do whatever but it won't stop what we are trying to accomplish. Hopefully one day are way will prevail then people will see what we as hunters are trying to accomplish here in good ol West Virginia.. We have been harvesting mature deer on are farm now for the past 10 years and yes I know some that we let walk get murdered on neighboring farms but we have begun to notice alot more mature deer (not babies). I love it when a neighbors harvest a nice deer and I show them trail cam pics of said deer and show them what letting the little ones can produce. I will continue to hunt mature deer and hopefully the yearlings can survive the onslaught of WV hunting season.. Keep the faith.

From: pocahunter ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 10-Nov-12


Spec, you state "That is the difference in being a hunter not a killer". Just because you put an emphisis on the rack size doesn't make you any more of a hunter than anyone else. You need to remember that hunting is more than a sport to some. It is a way of putting food on the table for our families and a way of life. The dream of harvesting one for the record books is the only motivation for some. But why? So we can hang a head on the wall or get our picture in the local paper? Every deer I have harvested, from the smallest doe, to the largest buck, has been a trophy to me. The respect of the animal is what makes you a hunter.

From: wvbownut ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 10-Nov-12


I take offense to the "hunter not a killer" because by saying that if you kill only big bucks that makes you a better hunter is BS. I know a bunch of bowhunters who have never killed a big mature whitetail and they are tremendous hunters. A good friend of mine who posts pictures of his bucks on here gets blasted every year for shooting little bucks and I guarantee you he is a better hunter than most of us on here. The hunt is the satisfaction of going out and taking in what God has given us. If that involves killing an animal then that is part of it. You "hunters" put too much into what you take instead of the experience of the actual hunt.If a hunter gets excited over killing a buck who are we to say that it is wrong. As long as it is legal then we need to accept it and not criticize others who kill animals that "you" don't think are big enough. As a hunter we are killers we kill deer because we like to eat them period. Not all of us need to take only big deer so we can mount them and pat ourselves on the back thinking we are good hunters. just my two cents.

From: JacksMt ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 10-Nov-12


Wow..great thread guys.. I truely believe the media has killed this sport and why we argue like we do over QDM.. The only QDM we see is guys hunting some of those most primed spots in the country to kill slammer whitetails...lets not forget about when our dad took us out to hunt squirrels for the first time with a .22 or hunt rabbits in late season with an inch of snow...real hunting! When i first started bowhunting back in the early 90's we watched Will Primos and Cuz shoot deer on film that if lucky scored in the high 80's..but that was awesome! We were watching in camp good guys shoot deer on film.. We went to bed hoping to see a deer the next day near that size???.. Now today if it dosen't break the 130's it dosen't seem to matter.

The media is big business and hunting now is big money.. and we all contribute to it. it's only going to get worse!!

From: Jack Whitmrie jr ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 11-Nov-12


It's called HORN PORN

From: JayD ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 11-Nov-12


I am going to throw several things into the air: 1-we do not need a one and done season - two would be ok but lets limit what the non-resident hunter can harvest in this state maybe just one for them. 2- we have too long of a gun season in this state with tons of hunters hunting then. Pressure does just as much damage as anything to a deer herd. If you look at most of these states with big bucks - most of those states have one week gun seasons. I would like to see our two week season be the end of the gun season and allow two does a day the last week. I think just as many does would be taken as there are now. 3- if anything put a restriction on the second buck - but a lot of hunters are not as fortunate as some of us are because they may only get to hunt a day or two and that spike or 4 pt may be the only deer they see - remember its deer season not big buck season. Again I think the biggest problem with our deer herd now is pressure - I know there will be a few who will say you are limiting hunting time for the gun hunter - well yes I am but a deer herd can only take so much pressure not the constant pressure for two months we have now... JMO

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 11-Nov-12


2shea. I do what you say. I have no problem shooting a doe for meat. But bucks are meat too. I have killed enough nice bucks that I don't need to just shoot a drinker. But I'm not passing up meat either. It's all meat to me in WV. Until we get some kind of management for bigger bucks I'm not letting meat walk only to have someone poach it or shoot it after it walks past me. I'm all for quality management but I will never practice it until the state does. And that will happen nevuary 1st

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 11-Nov-12


2shea what you are sayin sounds good but the fact of the matter is that we hunters simply do not want management for bigger bucks. Neither does our DNR. Until the DNR embraces quality management all deer in WV are just meat to me. You can't eat the horns that's true but my dog chews on em

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 11-Nov-12


And a basket racked buck is in different than a 4 point. Until you reduce by law the number of bucks and size of the bucks being killed it won't change. And even then the poachers will kill em

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 11-Nov-12


And a basket racked buck is in different than a 4 point. Until you reduce by law the number of bucks and size of the bucks being killed it won't change. And even then the poachers will kill em

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 11-Nov-12


I love bowhunting period. I enjoy killing game with my recurve. I agree that killing bucks doesn't make you a better hunter. Being able to consistently kill deer may mean you hunt where there are a lot of deer. I used to think that the hunters that killed big bucks in other states were great hunters. Then I started going to Ohio Montana Iowa and Idaho and realized its not as hard there because they have big bucks. It's not rocket science.

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 11-Nov-12


Jay. The dnr won't go for reducing what nonresidents kill. It simply will cost too much money for the state.

From: Spec ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 11-Nov-12


Wow..great thread..Killing a yearling buck is not sport or hunting.. ( My opinion)I am all for shooting to put food on the table but shoot a mature doe or buck either one will test your skills as a HUNTER. And your right WV will never be a quality deer state. I am by no means a trophy hunter and the definition of a trophy varies from hunter to hunter. When u go fishing do u keep the minnows also or do you release them to let them grow? I also know alot of great hunters who take mature deer and let the little ones go. I just don't see the purpose or skill involved in killing a yearling buck my opinion though. If u enjoy killing the young ones so be it go get them.. Just because some chose to hunt mature adult animals that is are choice its not the racks that drive this choice it is matching wits with a wise and mature animal.

From: Spec ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 11-Nov-12


Wow..great thread..Killing a yearling buck is not sport or hunting.. ( My opinion)I am all for shooting to put food on the table but shoot a mature doe or buck either one will test your skills as a HUNTER. And your right WV will never be a quality deer state. I am by no means a trophy hunter and the definition of a trophy varies from hunter to hunter. When u go fishing do u keep the minnows also or do you release them to let them grow? I also know alot of great hunters who take mature deer and let the little ones go. I just don't see the purpose or skill involved in killing a yearling buck my opinion though. If u enjoy killing the young ones so be it go get them.. Just because some chose to hunt mature adult animals that is are choice its not the racks that drive this choice it is matching wits with a wise and mature animal.

From: gobbler ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 13-Nov-12


I never thought about all this before. I'll have to think about all this to form an opinion.

From: slimer2425 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 14-Nov-12


It's like Groundhog Day, isn't it Gobbler?

From: gobbler ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 14-Nov-12


yeah it is.LOL

From: soundman ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 15-Nov-12


Each situation is different. There have been some good points made all around. I've passed on several small bucks this year, even posted a video on you tube today of a crab claw 4 point I didn't want to shoot because I've seen a dandy 8 point that's a shooter. But my girlfriend wants to go hunting, and I told her shoot whatever she wants. For her to kill even a small buck would mean the world to her. I chose to pass on him, and several others so far. As for the buck to doe ratio, when do you start killing cull bucks and how do you know how many is enough? It depends on the amount of land in consideration I suppose.

From: mudflap ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 16-Nov-12


Crossbows...Check, Politics...Check, Antler Size...Check. Wonder what other Hot Topics we will be covering before years end? Like sand through an hour glass...everybody likes a good drama it seems.

James

From: slimer2425 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 16-Nov-12


Soundman, that is why I agree with wvbownut on not liking antler restrictions. I don't like a hunter not able to take any deer he/she wants. Facts are facts and antler restrictions do work. PA is a perfect example. I just don't think it's a great fit for WV. It's certainly better than what we currently have, but if I were making the decision, I would just reduce the buck kill limits to one or two, one with a bow, one with a gun.

Soundman, let your gf fire away and don't second guess yourself one bit. And if that dandy 8 comes thru, let her bust it too. I would gladly let my wife or girls shoot the biggest or the smallest buck in the woods.

As for WV cull bucks, what is that? LOL

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 16-Nov-12


Heck yea James. I'm tired of the threads about which feathers are best. Left wing or right wing

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 16-Nov-12


Yea what is a wv cull buck. I thought a cull buck was a buck that you wanted to take from the herd. Where I hunt they are all cull bucks.

From: pocahunter ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 16-Nov-12


Why respond so many times to threads your tired of?

From: mountain william ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 16-Nov-12


SSDD

From: gobbler ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 16-Nov-12


Some of us just like to run off at the mouth even if we don't have anything worthwhile to say. Other times we do it just to irritate people. Sometimes we feel like we have an ethical and moral obligation to let everyone know your opinion even if nobody cares. Still, other times there's nothing good on TV and you're bored. Sometimes my dog talks me into it, even when I know it's a bad idea.

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 16-Nov-12


Never said I was tired of this thread. Lol

From: Bob Dunn ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 16-Nov-12


I passed on small bucks on this farm I hunt on last year with my longbow. I saw and found out they were shootin the small bucks I passed on... go figure...I killed three does with my flintlock muzzle loader....

From: hookman ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Nov-12


I passed on 5 different small bucks numerous times last year and after gun season found them all piled up in a little ditch by the road with their backstraps cut out. Why would anyone drag them out to cut out a little bit of meat, which they could do in the woods? Maybe to just p.... someone of, such as me.

From: strutter18 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Nov-12


Here's my opinion on a real hunter and it's not directed to anyone on here. 1) A real hunter doesn't hunt over bait, you go out an scout and get your spot. 2) You kill a deer, you take care of it yourself, do the skinnin and cutting it up. 3) You eat your deer. If you don't eat your deer, then don't hunt. As for shootin small bucks, theres nothing wrong with it. You can't expect young kids to go out and just wait for a big buck or a mature doe. I've shot a small 8 and 2 year an a half old does this year and I'm happy! That's all that matters. If you own your own property and want to kill big bucks then manage it and do it.

From: gobbler ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Nov-12


I think a real hunter is someone that does it legally. If they hunt over bait or not, as long as they go by the law, it's their choice. I've cut up dozens and dozens of deer, now I have a friend that makes a little extra Christmas money by doing it. And I pay him for doing it for me. Why am I not a real hunter by doing that? I've killed 3 deer so far this year, I've kept one and have given 2 to friends that like deer but dosen't deer hunt. Why am I not a real hunter by sharing my harvest with friends?

I think real hunters can use a compound, graphite arrows, a release, use bait to stop a deer for a good shot, or a real hunter can use a self made bow, selfmade arrows and hunt from the ground, or any combination of the above. Just so they follow the laws and make every attempt to find a wounded deer and don't waste meat. I don't see the need to steriotype legal hunters into any other groups.

From: strutter18 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Nov-12


Baiting should be illegal during any hunting season! It's okay to feed the animals but not shoot them over it! It's okay to share your deer or take them somewhere to get cut up if you don't have time!

From: gobbler ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Nov-12


I bait because my neighbors bait. And it is a viscous cycle. I would be glad not to if they putlawed it and everyone would quit and they would enforce it. It's turned into a multi- million dollar business and it will be next to impossible to stop it on private land in WV, unless God forbid CWD or bovine TB turns up in other parts of the state. Even then, it will be hard to stop.

From: gobbler ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Nov-12


The guy I use to process my deer is retired on a fixed income and he cuts deer up to get extra money set aside to spend on his grand kids for Christmas. He charges me 55 dollars so it helps me and it helps him with his grand kids plus he does a good job. One of the guys that I give deer to pays me back. A couple of the other ones have kids and I just give them a deer already cut and wrapped.

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 17-Nov-12


I don't think you need to eat every deer to be a hunter. I eat a lot of the deer I kill but give some away as well

From: HillBilly ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 19-Nov-12


i was just thinking, whats the difference between hunting over bait and planting a food plot for deer to feed in and then hunting over that......just a thought.

From: 2Shea ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 19-Nov-12


This thread has gone from the PERSONAL choice of letting young bucks walk...to people saying what a real hunter is and hunting over bait lol I love this site

From: soundman ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 21-Nov-12


Well, yesterday was one of the saddest days I've ever spent hunting. After having let 4 small bucks walk during bow season, yesterday sounded like a war between 9 and 10 o clock. I fear for the worst, and that it's likely than none of them made it past 10 o clock yesterday morning.

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 21-Nov-12


Well yea soundman. You can't let em walk in WV. Just the way it is

From: snrockey ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 13-Dec-12


I have had many discussions with hunters accross this state that are already managing properties for bigger and better deer. WV has all of the ingredients to produce big, heavy horned bucks consistently (check out all the pictures of the monsters killed this year). However, this state can produce even more and better of these monsters. Too many people are harvesting bucks before they have time to reach 80-100% of their antler potential. Check out this article: http://www.fwrc.msstate.edu/pubs/antler.pdf We NEED to change the structure of buck limits and/or enact an antler restriction. Please click the link below to sign the petition to show the DNR that WV hunters want better bucks!

http://www.change.org/petitions/wv-dnr-institute-an-antler-restriction-or-limit-number-of-buck-tags

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 13-Dec-12


This has been hashed out time and again. We are outnumbered. Most hunters just want a buck and the DNR will lose money.

From: hoppies56 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 13-Dec-12


I see it happening,I know a lot of hunters who are more selective on what they kill. it sure has helped in area where we hunt. i think the time is right for reduction in buck tags. antler restriction not sure if that is for everyone. hoppies56

From: tailchaser23 ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 13-Dec-12


I would love to see the one buck limit. One and you are done. There are all kinds of people that go to Ohio to hunt the big bucks. So I don't see how that would hurt the DNR's money. There are all kinds of people that come to the bow only counties to hunt the big bucks and if they change it to a one buck limit for the whole state why wouldn't it be the same everywhere.

From: soundman ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 13-Dec-12


How about 2 bucks, but no antler size restriction.

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 14-Dec-12


The reduction would hurt the DNR revenues. Besides more hunters want multiple bucks than a one buck lilit.

From: WV Mountaineer ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 14-Dec-12


WV has one of the greatest deer hunting legacies in the country. We also have lots of really big deer. Just because they don't come running through the back forty by your treestands does not mean they are not there. Would the deer grow bigger if let live? Absolutely. But don't we have enough regulations already? Why should you decide how big a buck someone else could kill?

How bout this. Why don't you let your fellow hunters decide what they want to shoot if legal instead of trying to push your agenda down their throats. Besides that, why don't you go to an area tat has big deer more available? Lots of free land hunting in the bow only areas, but a lot of it is getting leased up real quick too. Which brings up another more important point other than what you want others to shoot so you can shoot a bigger deer.

Big horn management brings big problems. Some regulations more than others, but one thing is constant. If you change statewide regulations to raise bigger horns solely, you create another big money situation. Only people capable or able to pay big bucks for big horns are going to have the good hunting ground. Leases will be the norm. $20 an acre kinda thing. It will be like every other place in the country that has lots of private ground with limited open ground. Only a lucky few will be able to afford to hunt, shutting the rest of the hunters out to overrun public ground. Eventually limiting hunting numbers which will eventually will be the end of hunting.

A far better thing would be to limit buck harvests to a max of two combined. We have the habitat to grow big deer. We just need to get rid of the blatant abuse of welfare to get people out of the woods shooting way more than their buck limits. And then enjoy the freedom that so many hunters country wide would love to have. God Bless

From: hookman ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 16-Dec-12


Leases are becoming a big problem for hunters. Here again it is for the ones that can afford it. It is all tied together, big bucks and money.

From: Babysaph ........ No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual No Violations Reported on this individual ....... Date: 16-Dec-12


Nothing is free. Not even big bucks. Just the way it is. The people that want to shoot just any buck outnumber the others so it won't change. I agree with wv mtneer. Let's just let hunters decide what they want to kill here in we and then we can go out of state for big bucks




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Subject: RE: Why shoot small bucks??

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