Contributors to this thread:
99 percent let-off bows?
Someone sent me a YouTube link on compounds with let-offs adjustable from 80 to 99 percent from a company called Concept Archery. Guess it's been around for five years or so already. Anybody ever shoot these bows and if so, what's the verdict?
heard the owner use to show the let off by walking around the shows with the bow full drawn and with him holding the string and letting the bow hang down . they also said at one of the shows someone bumped the bow and it fired causing the bow to shoot up driving the cable guard into his hand . don't know how true that is but haven't much about that bow in years . I just had my bow set a around 89 pct let off 70lbs was holding just under 8 lbs . didn't like it went back to 80 pct felt to sloppy at 89 but that's me you might like it .
Question , if someone uses a " bow " that has an 89 % letoff , shouldn't they have a different name than bowhunter .
Don't you get a certain increase percentage allowance as you get older?
RC YOu are so wrong man...... I read your posts, and for the most part you have alot of knowledge and good info, but if you think this is not what the vertical x bows are going, you are living in a different world.....
Me I do not care I will live in my trad world for a long time, I will wear my flannel shirts and old cigar stain pants for a long time....
I will drink in all the flavors of fall, as I like them.......
Mine is not a better world, but it is a more honest world.........
Hunt Fair Chase
So let me get this straight. 80 to 85% letoff is perfectly fine. But 99% letoff would be unethical and you wouldnt be a bowhunter. LOL! You guys are better than the comedy channel anyday. Carry on.
Of course they want more let-off, look at the popularity of crossbows.
I am not sure why 85% would be considered ethical, but not 99%. I could care less what others choose, I like my Osage Selbow at 0%.
They are selling a lot of 100% let-off "bows" lately. They are called crossbows or crossguns depending on who you talk to.
so let me get this straight . if you shoot a 30 lb bow with 80 pct letoff 6 lbs your a bowhunter but if you shoot a 70 lb bow with 90 pct let off 7 lbs your not . you all think a hand held bow with 100pct let off is a crossbow . ive seen regular bows go to 100pct . you pull back a bow and see what its like when it locks up like a trap with a hair trigger believe me its not fun . you try to get them to the press and in it with out firing once in the press all you have to do is tap the cam and it goes off . but you all would know all about this from what i read you must work with this stuff daily to have all this knowledge .
Does P&Y still have restrictions on let-off?
It's been around for a lot longer than 5yrs. There is a company out there called Monster Bows. That was doing it based on the Oneida platform. It's been a long time since they worked on the onieda's. Then started doing their own thing. They were able to dial up the onieda's to 99%. I forget the reasons they stopped doing it. Believe one them was performance. Been at least 4yrs since I talked to their suggested Onieda repair guy about mine. So all a bit hazy. The monster site is down, and dont know where to find the old forum.
I see let off as a convenience, or luxury. You still have to pull that start wait back. I would have only minor pain holding 8lbs back. No way in hell would I even try to pull 70!!
Funny how some folks get nervous or defensive when "let off" is the subject! LOL!
After reading this last post, I must reconsider my thinking......
This RC who just posted the info on the difference of the x bow and the compound, I have to admit, is the best explanation, I have ever read or heard about that debate.....
That was a well written post......
Woodsmanship, the lost Art of hunting......
"Because the crossbow proponent wants to distract from peak weight they throw out a straw man argument about how compound bows holding weight is so low as to make them "almost" a crossbow or so similar as to not warrant a separation. That’s why the crossbow proponent here started this thread."
Not at all ... and, in fact, funny, since the comment above came from you, a crossbow owner for 30 years and current owner and shooter of three crossbows (you admitted that earlier in another thread). On the other hand, I've never owned a crossbow and have zero desire to.
No, it's funny, because you call me a crossbow proponent yet I've never owned one, don't want one and believed for years that crossbows for all would hurt smaller archery shops and lead to more poaching. Now Dr. Deer says crossbows would be good for youths; maybe he's right, maybe not.
Either way, you and others helped increase crossbow use in Wisconsin by assisting politicians as they pushed through legislation to give crossbow users expanded opportunity. Ironically, by trying to keep them out of the archery season, you've likely done more to rally crossbow fans (whether they own one or three crossbows) to push for expanded opportunities within the archery season or to get their own season.
Whether they do or don't won't at all affect the way I hunt. The bow buck kill has risen steadily through the years as a percentage of overall buck kill. While I might not like it, why should I care if a neighbor hunts with a crossbow, a compound or a recurve? During the gun hunt, I've got some friends who hunt with muzzleloaders and pistols. It's their preference. A deer shot through the boiler room is a dead deer. If only we could legislate that all hunters should only take ethical shots and hunt legally, we'd all win.
tell doctor kroll that we should tell this 8 year old that we started shooting at 6 that she should of started with a crossbow because shes a kid
there no lb min on a bow where she hunts . she shoots 25 lb at a 21 inch draw the bow doing 162 fps with a 335 arrow just under 20ke .she shot 15 yards and the deer only went 35 . she went through one lung and half into the other .she started crying after she shot the deer. her dad waited a while too she calmed down and ask her if she was upset with shooting it. her comet was no , all my hard work paid off . her birthday was before she hunted and asked her dad for a 3d target to practice on . she's 1 shot one deer 100pct hows all your guys average try to be honest . I have two others under 10 that have the ability to do the same as her but they have to wait until there 10 here .
Yep,Steve White is right about Oneida and Monster bows getting high letoff years ago.You get up towards 99% and the limbs will hang when ya let the string go,not a comfortable feeling.100% and your real close to a lock up.Locked my Monster bows Dragon a few times settin the draw stops.Have'nt locked my Oneida Stealth up yet but am very close.Get more info at gulfcoastarchery.com 5150bows.com
Kinda funny how some folks description of a "real bow" differs to suite themselves! ;-)
Hunt with what makes ya happy as long as its legal! A big CONGRATS to the girl in the photo, AWESOME!!!!
Archer - A hunter that use's a longbow or recurve .
Bowhunter - A hunter that use's a compound bow .
What do you call a crossbow bow hunter ??
let me ask a question who has the bigger advantage . its late season been in the teens all day no wind dead quite. theres two guys in the woods for hours , its right at last light . guy one has his compound not a lot of clothes on so he can pull his bow guy two has a crossbow illuminated sight a body suit.who has a better chance of drawing on a deer . to me late season crossbow big advantage . i like mich. rules if they haven't change it upper no crossbows reg archery season second season .
I think Iowa might be allowing crossguns in the late season now to. That sounds better than having them in the regular bow season seperate tag or not.
Crossbows are the next step in the evolution of the "bow". It will provide a new level of efficiency, much like compounds did from recurves and longbows. The public wants easy, effortless hunting. Look what happened to muzzleloaders? If your wondering how we got here, look in the mirror. Makes people mad to say it, but the truth is painful at times.
Preacher- you claim that your an expert and that shooting a compound bow is simple. I put alot of time into shooting and hunting, I feel very lucky every time I kill a deer. A lot of yrs I never killed a deer. Why? Because they saw me pull back, I couldn't hold long enough, or they were over my max distance of 40 yards. When I get old or disabled, will I use a crossgun,absolutely. Until then I will continue to BOWHUNT.
Traditional bows, both recurve and longbows increase in weight gradually as they are drawn until they reach a point that the increase in weight is increased per inch, which is known as "Stacking".
Compounds have what is known as a draw force curve. They increase in weight over a 1/4-1/3 of the draw them peak or plateau and maintain that weight for a distance of the draw, then they decrease in draw, which is known as letoff.
If you have ever attended one of Ralph Cianciarulo's seminars you will have heard about how he promotes drawing at a sound of a deer or as one is approaching, before it is able to see you and then dropping your elbow down to your side to hold the bow at full draw for long periods of time so there is no chance of them seeing you draw. Its very easy to draw early and hold long enough so that animals don't see you draw with a compound. I don't know of anyone that waits till an animal is in place to draw like you would with a trad bow, they always draw early with a compound.
If getting caught drawing with a compound actually had any value to bowhunting people wouldn't be concerned with the what if's that cause them to get in a treestand or ground blind. Speaking of ground blinds, they pretty much conceal any drawing and that's why people buy them. So if the added motion or noise of drawing is of any factor what so ever to keep crossbows out of the woods during archery season you would also have to outlaw things that hide drawing like getting above an animals sight in a treestand or hiding in a groundblind. But that's not happening is it?
Preacher why is it you always seem to be on all crossgun threads... Wisconsin, Ohio, Mich... etc etc etc. Seems as though there may be something to it. Could be wrong though... could be wrong.
Bearskull I am not sure what this means - Why is it OK for someone disabled to use a crossbow but not a healthy person?
I hope your kidding and if not... right on! Take their parking privledges away too! Make em walk like the rest of us!! Stupid blue labels hanging from mirrors... Really???
The "bow" has advanced so far That I don't conceder a lot of what's out there something that is Helping the Bow Hunt of Seasons. You can advance yourself to the point of destroying yourself and we are close.
"the MI data"
With no mandatory registration and only random sampling/surveys of a very small percentage of hunters in Michigan, the "plus or minus" factor on accuracy can be very huge. Who knows, really, just how many deer were killed with what in Michigan? Nobody.
Hey I am an "archer", I like that.........
Am not a crossbow proponent (nor owner; you own three) and not a DNR hater/basher, either; just stating irrefutable facts.
"I watched RIB members shoot at an elephant target novelty shot at 100 yards with a hoyt compound and do very well."
Fingers and instinctive ... imagine what can be done by practiced archers using releases and sights with a compound bow. Wrote a story about a local who shot a book mulie out west this year and couldn't even put the true yardage out there for fear of getting a bunch of nasty letters saying that no bow hunter should ever take a shot that far.
I'm with preacher and others who have said that drawing and holding with one of today's bows is really no big deal if you picked the right tree or are in a good blind. If not, don't wait until the last second. I laugh at those who say there's no movement with lifting a crossbow into shooting position. Everyone talks as if all crossbow shooters use rests and hear the deer coming for miles. Just as compound bow users can be surprised by a "silent" whitetail, so can crossbow users.
To reiterate, I've always been against full inclusion (and even "lesser weapon rule") because I believed once more crossbows were purchased it would hurt the small archery shops which have done much for youth recruitment and hunter education and also believe that more crossbows will eventually mean more poaching (such as at lighted bait sites as we've read about in the past behind cabins up north).
I've never started "pro crossbow threads that got deleted" despite the b.s. accusation; I have had threads deleted when it used to be against the rules to even mention the word crossbow, or when someone else turned a discussion into name calling and arrogant belittling, which happens all too often here.
Yes, those revelations are something to behold.
Let's put a trad shooter, compound shooter and crossbow shooter at the range for the 100-yard Elephant Extravaganza, and all draw back and hold (or "simply" hold in the case of the cb shooter) their bow/crossbow for a full minute in shooting position before launching their shot. Try to imagine the trad guy with fingers holding steady for even 30 seconds ... good luck! Now, imagine a crossbow user trying to hold his heavy setup steady for a minute — no rests allowed. Finally, there's the compound shooter. Bet he wins the accuracy test, hands down!
Preacher and Naz - ever hear of a couple names named Gene and Barry Wensel? They are "Brothers of the Bow".
I will refer to you guys as "Brothers of the Crossbow" from now on.
For a couple of guys who have no interest in using them you sure tilt the scale in favor of the crossbow side. Just my opinion.
Wrong again Naz , during the last crossgun wars I took a 10 X crossbow , put a 4 x scope on it and reworked the trigger to a crisp 2 lbs .
From a rest I shot 4 inch groups at 100 yards and 7 inch groups freehand . I have 2 witnesses .
My friend , a Mathews team shooter had a 12 inch group and was shocked at what I did with the crossbow .
Call whatever name you want if it makes you feel good, Pasq. Neither Preacher or I own a crossbow, and RC has three. Neither Preacher or I are in favor of crossbows for all but both see the light that the truth is, what our neighbors choose to use for deer hunting probably doesn't matter. Some here even believe Ohio is the place for monster bucks and have said so.
Ruger, "from a rest" .... I said no rest, just like many real bow hunting situations for guys hunting from tree stands or having a deer come from an unsuspecting angle when in a permanent tower or ground blind.
Jeez... now I feel bad... I'll tell you what, I will agree they are the same if ya reach down on the crossbow and pull the string back with your fingers and shoot it that way ! Better now??