FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: August 22, 2013 http://www.dnr.illinois.gov/news/Pag...ober12-14.aspx
Illinois Youth Firearm Deer Hunt is October 12-14
All Hunters Reminded of Blaze Orange Requirement During Youth Hunt
SPRINGFIELD, IL – The 2013 Illinois Youth Firearm Deer Hunt is Oct. 12-14 for those hunters with a valid Youth Deer Permit who have not reached their 16th birthday by the first day of the hunt. Youth Deer Permits are available over-the-counter at license vendors throughout the state. Hunters may purchase only one permit (either-sex) for one of the open counties.
Governor Pat Quinn recently signed into law legislation extending the Illinois Youth Firearm Deer Hunt from a two-day to a three-day season, providing an additional hunting day on the Columbus Day holiday on Mon., Oct. 14 this year.
All participating youths must have completed an IDNR-approved Hunter Education course (unless using an Apprentice Hunting License).
All youth hunters must have a current, valid Youth Deer Permit and have a hunting license or Apprentice Hunting License, unless exempt. Each hunter participating in the Youth Deer Hunt while using an Apprentice Hunter License must be accompanied by a non-hunting, validly-licensed (Illinois hunting license) parent, guardian or grandparent. All other hunters participating in the Youth Deer Hunt must each be accompanied by a non-hunting supervisor (parent, guardian or responsible adult) who has a valid Illinois hunting license or who has in his or her possession a valid Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) card.
The non-hunting supervisor must wear the orange garments required of gun deer hunters (blaze orange cap and upper garment with a minimum of 400 square inches of solid blaze orange material), and must remain with the hunting youth. Each supervisor may only accompany a single youth at any given time during the hunt.
Shooting hours for firearm deer hunting in Illinois are one half-hour before sunrise to one half-hour after sunset.
All Illinois counties except Cook, DuPage and Lake Counties, and that portion of Kane County east of State Route 47 are open for the youth deer season. Hunting hours are one-half hour before sunrise on to one-half hour after sunset on Oct. 12-14. The bag limit is one deer per legally authorized permit. All either-sex permits are subject to the following restrictions: no hunter, regardless of the quantity or type of permits in his/her possession, may harvest more than two (2) antlered deer during a year, including the youth, archery, muzzleloader and firearm seasons.
Successful hunters must register their harvest by 10 p.m. on the same calendar day the deer is taken by calling the toll-free telephone check-in system at 1-866-ILCHECK or by accessing the online check-in system at this link: http://www.dnr.illinois.gov/hunting/...Reporting.aspx They will be provided with a confirmation number to verify that they checked in their harvest. This number must be written by the hunter on the temporary harvest tag (leg tag).
Youth hunters are reminded that archery deer season will be underway and archery hunters will be afield during the Oct. 12-14 youth hunt. Archery deer hunters and all other hunters are reminded that they must comply with requirements to wear blaze orange the weekend of the youth deer hunt (except in counties closed to the youth deer season).
The IDNR-managed sites in the counties listed below are open to youth hunting during the Youth Deer Hunt. Note that some of the IDNR sites allow participation in the Youth Deer Hunt only by site-specific permit. Contact the sites listed below for special site regulations:
Adams - Mississippi River Pools 21 and 22 Adams/Brown - Siloam Springs SP Alexander – Cape Bend SFWA, Horseshoe Lake SFWA Calhoun/Jersey - Mississippi River SFWA Cass – Jim Edgar Panther Creek SFWA Clinton – Carlyle Lake – East Fork Unit, Eldon Hazlet SP – North Allen Branch Unit Crawford – Crawford County SFWA Effingham – Wildcat Hollow SHA Fayette – Carlyle Lake SFWA Franklin - Campbell Pond SHA Hancock – Cedar Glen SNA Henderson – Mississippi River – Pool 18 Jackson –Kinkaid Lake SFWA; Burning Star 5 Jackson/Union – Giant City SP Jackson/Williamson/Union – Crab Orchard NWR Jasper – Meeker SHA, Newton Lake SFWA Jefferson/Franklin - Rend Lake SFWA and COE managed areas of Rend Lake Jefferson/Hamilton - Ten Mile Creek SFWA Jersey – Copperhead Hollow SFWA, Pere Marquette SP Jo Daviess - Apple River Canyon (Salem/Thompson Units), Hanover Bluff, Rall Woods (Falling Down Prairie), Tapley Woods, Upper Mississippi River NWFR – Lost Mound Unit to include IDNR properties Eagles Landing and Stewardship Park (special permit required from USFWS), Wards Grove, Winston Tunnel Johnson –Cypress Pond SNA, Deer Pond SNA, Ferne Clyffe – Cedar Draper Units only, Glass Hill SNA, Skinner Farm SHA, Wise Ridge SNA Johnson/Pulaski/Massac – Cache River SNA Knox – Spoon River SF Lawrence - Chauncey Marsh Lee – Green River SWA Marshall - Marshall SFWA Mason – Sand Ridge SF Massac – Fort Massac SP, Mermet Lake SFWA, Seilbeck Forest SNA Menard County – Oakford CA Mercer – Mississippi River – Pool 17 Moultrie – Lake Shelbyville Project Lands in Moultrie County including Shelbyville SFWA Montgomery – Coffeen Lake SFWA (Upland Management Area only) Peoria – Portions of Marshall SFWA Perry – Pyramid SRA (East Conant, Galum and Old Park Management units only) Pike - Mississippi River (Pool 24), Ray Norbut SFWA Pope – Dixon Springs SP, Dog Island Randolph - Turkey Bluffs SFWA Randolph/St. Clair/Monroe - Kaskaskia River SFWA Saline – Saline County SFWA Sangamon – Sangamon River SFWA Shelby – Hidden Springs SF, Lake Shelbyville Project Lands (NOT including Eagle Creek and Wolf Creek State Recreation Areas) Schuyler/Brown - Weinberg King SFWA including Scripps and Spunky Bottoms units Tazewell – Mackinaw SFWA Union –Trail of Tears SF, and Union County SFWA Union/Alexander – Devil’s Island SFWA
Note: Crab Orchard, Dixon Springs, and Lake Le-Aqua-Na offer youth firearm hunts during the statewide firearm deer season and require a site specific firearm deer permit.
For more information on the Youth Deer Hunt in Illinois, check the IDNR website at www.dnr.illinois.gov/hunting/deer.
Lynn W's Link
It will now be the Sat, Sun & Monday of the Columbus day weekend, every year.
http://ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocTypeID=HB&DocNum=743&GAID=12&SessionID=85&LegID=71029
I am pretty sure that a child who has a dad kill his/her deer won't be too interested in future hunts. A loss for the future of hunting, for certain.
Youth hunts require 100% adult supervision from a non-hunting adult, and are scheduled at a time when this can occur without severely impacting other deer hunting opportunities. Yes, as a bowhunter, I enjoy hunting around persimmons on Columbus Day. I will just have to wear orange ... no problem!
Last year, there were about 9700 youth hunters. Much easier to teach hunting, gun safety, and other skills in a much more laid back atmosphere than the "rat-race" of opening day of firearm deer season -- and its 200,000+ participants.
So now I have to change my hunting practices on my own property because someone 3 miles or 3 counties away MIGHT want to take their kids hunting ?
I also agree that kids can be "taught" to hunt during regular hunting seasons ( take them squirrel hunting ............ they can learn EVERYTHING they need to know by learning to hunt squirrels)
In my opinion this youth season is more for the dads than for the kids,Now dad can take the kids gun hunting in October and then he doesnt have to use HIS gun hunting days in November.
Suggest that you separate the argument seemingly opposed to "1 more youth day" from your complaint that there are too many firearm permits. They are entirely two different issues.
I won't argue that things can't be taught in both seasons; but contrary to your position, there are plenty of deer to accommodate both Youth and regular firearm seasons.
Adults need not give up their gun season in order to teach a youth. I always saw it as added opportunity to hunt with my son, once we felt he was ready.
Also, according to articles in press, it seems that many of the reported successful youth hunters are being mentored by an adult who is unrelated (friend, neighbor). There are hunting clubs that offer youth hunt opportunities to, hopefully, recruit new hunters. I think we agree that if we aren't training our replacements, we're not doing our job.
"Dads just have to be willing to give up their gun season to be able to teach them. If the dads don't want to do this, sounds to me you are letting your own kid down, for yourself. " ??????
WRONG.....what about the mentors who are NOT 'Dads' & kids who don't have 'Dads' ????
What about the women that take kids out ??
What about the grandfathers that take kids out ??
The uncles, the older brothers, older sisters that take kids out ???
The friends who take kids out ????
What about families that have 2-3-4-5 kids ????
Nope, some are simply more worried about if THEY will have to wear a simple orange vest & hat for 3 more days ????
Some people think that because THEY hunt on THEIR own ground THEY are special and about the laws that govern others ??????
Simple fact = not all Dads hunt & not all kids have Dads = the youth season is not about 'Dads'
Youth seasons are about the kids, PERIOD !!!
See thousands & thousands of 'Dads' and non Dads, do take our kids deerhunting during the regular season, along with the youth seasons & we will continue to do so despite any bable from those who don't seem to get it....8^)
But one thing that troubles me with a LOT of these youth hunts is the fact that some well meaning mentors start kids out WAY,WAY to young to be shooting a deer.
Bottom line is this .......... if a child cant hold a gun and aim it on his own, he or she is too young or small to be shooting a weapon at a live animal . Too often you see videos showing dad helping the child lift the gun to a rest and help him get the gun pointed at the deer . The child then looks thru a scope puts the crosshairs on the deer and pulls the trigger . Sorry but that aint hunting . You didnt teach anything except to put the crosshairs on its shoulder and touch it off !
Buy that kid a .22 single shot and take them out and let them carry their own rifle and get in position and take their own shot on squirrels . When they can consistantly kill squirrels with head shots (without your help) they are ready to move on to the next step , which could be ............ deer hunting .
JMHO
BTW ........ there are 3 1/2 months of squirrel season in Illinois before the first gun season . Plenty of time to take junior out and have him or her REALLY prepared for deer hunting with a gun.
I thought this was a hunting forum ????
Just because a kid uses a rest, a mentor helps him or her & the gun has a scope, some people deem this NOT HUNTING ????????
Holy cow this sounds like the words you would hear on a PETA web site !!
Sure we can agree to disagree on lots of stuff here, but this BS of saying stuff like kid who uses a scope & rest is NOT a form of hunting, is the silly non sence babble & rhetoric that only hurts our hunting community.
Maybe we should just buy young kids bikes, through it down on the ground & tell them to be a man & figure is out on your own ! No sissy training wheels are EVER need too. YA YA that is how a real man would teach his kid to ride a bike !!!
After decades of youth hunt numbers going down hill, things are now changing !!! Special youth hunts, youth licenses, youth seasons, apprentice programs, guns & bows that are actually designed for kids, more youth outdoors skills camps, youth shooting programs, ect, ect......youth hunting numbers have been on the increase in that last few years !!!!!
BUT wait.......is it still hunting ??????
HELL YES IT IS !!!
"Buy that kid a .22 single shot and take them out and let them carry their own rifle and get in position and take their own shot on squirrels . When they can consistantly kill squirrels with head shots (without your help) they are ready to move on to the next step , which could be ............ deer hunting ."
when you hold a gun for a child and let them pull the trigger..... it is for YOU ..... not the child .
His father is probably only got him out there for HIMSELF !!!
That poor kid is learning NOTHING !!!
Wyatt ( aka Joey ) has been there on several hunts for squirrels, rabbits, pheasants, deer, turkeys, dove, coyotes, mushrooms, blackberries, arrowheads, shed hunting, ect, ect.....
===========================
People...... the point I am driving home here with all this is, that there is a lot lot more to these 2-3 day youth hunts then some unknowing people have a clue about !!!!
The youth hunts themselves, are just a small part of the whole learning to hunt process !!!!!
Its just like Boys Scouts, Youth Sports, School, swimming leasons, Church, ect.....it all gets them better prepared for the real world !
AND hopefully one that will include our great Outdoors !!!
If you want to better prepare todays youth for the real world they need to play buy the same rules adults do.
The answer to that ? is = YES......8^)
My soon to be 9 year old son, has already played t-ball & baseball for 5 yrs now. T-ball for 3 years, coach pitch for 2 yrs, then next year it is player pitch. See different rules to allow us coaches to help them less & less as they get old enough to handle even the pitching, all on their own. The whole time they get to play real games & learn a great sport. The same thing happens in youth basketball, youth football, youth soccer, ect, ect,...... In none of these sports do the kids play by pro sports rules & in most, if not all, play on smaller fields, use youth equipment, have shorter games, ect....
Do our kids also have fulltime jobs & work 40 hour weeks ????
NOT !
So our kids do NOT "play buy the same rules adults do"
Maybe some of your 'DADS' started some of you, so late in life, because YOUR 'DADS' didn't want to give up THEIR hunting time to have to take YOU during the regular seasons ?????
Food for thought ?
I have always dreamed about seeing & killing a 200"+, I won't lie about that. Now that dream has changed to me seeing a 200"+ deer & watching my son pull the trigger on such a monster !
Maybe some can't understand that kind of thinking BUT, I think most all Dad's who have actually hunted the actual youth seasons, understand what it is really all about.....8^)
IF.... this youth season topic shouldn't be here, why in the world have you made so many post on the subject already then ????? Never once before did you complain about the topic being here, till now ????
I put the IDNR's press release post here to inform bowhunter that the youth gun season was expanded & they now need to wear orange, nothing more. So it is very relevant to IL bowhunters. YOU & others, tried to make it about 'Dads' & start another old bowsite bash.
They are now getting a passing grade, even tho they come up with the wrong answer.
Like it or not ,not everyone is a fan of this youth hunt . That doesnt mean they are against teaching your kids to hunt. But as I have stated many times , having a special season is not the only way for a kid to learn how to kill an animal , or how to skin it ,or anything else hunting related . There are many different hunting seasons that the kids can be included in without having a special season .
My biggest complaint is NOT specifically youth seasons but special seasons in general. Where does it end ? How many more "special" seasons are in the works ? Does every special interest group deserve a special season to practice killing a deer ? Maybe a special womens season ? Arent women the fastest growing new hunter group ?
If you want to post things and have everyone agree with you ,you should really post debate free .But when you put things on a public forum the "public" has a right to have a different point of view.
As for those of you who are picking Lynn apart for daring to post this info on bowsite, get over it! Sure, some dads are going to be helping to aim or helping hold the gun. The way I see it, the point of the youth season is to give youngsters the opportunity to get out in the woods and get experience when it might not be too cold and when the woods aren't overrun with hunters. I love it because it is safer for my kids and easier to keep them in the stand bc they aren't freezing. Also, I have yet to meet a youngster who started out bow hunting before gun hunting. This just makes it easier to get their "feet wet". What's wrong with that?
Like many of you who have chimed in, I started out gun hunting in the mid 80's when deer were few and temps at least seemed to be colder. I don't think my feet have ever been as cold as they were in those first couple of years. There wasn't a special season for kids back then, but I for wish there had been.
As far as the deer herd and too many permits go, 3,124 deer were taken during the youth season last year. That is not a significant number. Mother nature will regulate the deer herd much better than the DNR. I've seen it happen.
Some have suggested that the reason for the youth hunt is because dads can't be bothered with their kids when they are trophy hunting in November. If this is true, it has nothing to do with hunting or the DNR and everything to do with a POS dad whose priorities are screwed up. I can attest to the fact that when my son killed his first DOE last youth season, I was shaking harder than he was and it was one of my all time highs in the woods. If that doe had been a monster buck, it would have been that much better! I'd much rather have one of my kids tag a big buck than me, I don't know many good fathers who would disagree.
Some don't like to wear the orange during youth seasson. I think they could make an exception if you are on you own property with no youth hunters, but the law is the law.
He taught me many outdoor skills beginning at a very young age . But guess what ......... no one patted him on the back and told him what a great dad he was or what a great little hunter I was when I was making head shots on squirrels at 9 years old .....there was still much,much more to learn.... It was his job to teach his son to hunt,it was expected of him and every hunting family did the same . No specials seasons were necessary for dads to spend time with their sons , or daughters , or nephews to teach them outdoor skills .
Really? I guess I am a one of a kind. Probably in more ways than one. Of course I've probably never met you, but I'm not sure that's really the point.
Hoping to take my nephew out if I believe there's some way he can hold still/not talk for at least an half hour (wishful thinking). He won't be going out during the youth gun season, unless he just so happens to tag along on a bowhunt that weekend when orange is required.
For all of you knocking the dad's that can't give up their time to take their kid hunting during gun season because they are selfish - how about the ones that are ticked about kids having 3 days during YOUR bow season? hmmmmm... kind of sounds the same to me.
How about this scenario - I hunt public land - my daughter has FAILED to draw a gun tag on public lands for 3 years running now and my boy (who will hunt for the first time this year) failed this year as well! If it wasn't for the youth season we wouldn't be gun hunting - PERIOD. I am excited for the 3 day season -it gives me a bit of extra time in the woods with two of them now.
Good luck to all who are taking a kid hunting this youth season!
Lee
Lee- I agree with everything you said. But you better careful before the bashing starts because according to voodoochile we don't need special seasons "for dads to spend time with their sons or daughters to teach them outdoor skills". The negativity on this site is the reason it's nearly dead. Good luck to you and your kids!
In all honesty I can't say how many people I know myself that started on the bow. I guess it has never really been a concern of mine to find out what preferred weapon someone started with. All I know is that is how I started and I can't imagine I'm the only one.
Also, any of you folks are welcome from my perspective to take your kids, your brothers kids, kids from an orphanage, kids from band camp, your dog's kids, etc. out to tag along or bow-hunt during MY bow season.
I will say that it is almost hysterical how some of you can lash out at certain special interest groups and not others, but I guess we all do it at some time or another. Hopefully at some point we can see the light at the end of the tunnel and not make ALL OF OUR hunting seasons an even more complicated cluster...
To further confess what a POS dad I am, my kids haven't gone through Hunter Safety and don't even get to hunt. They observe my buddy's kid who's older.
Seeing the fire in their eyes while following a bloodtrail and the mixed wonder and excitement while field dressing the deer almost offsets my selfish desires.
But I think that I should definitely work to overcome my selfishness and teach my kids to hunt during the regular gun season by regular rules and be less of a POS dad.
Dang! I've got a problem. I'm a bowhunter. I have access to bow hunt this private land and take the kids for the youth hunt weekend, but don't have access for the gun deer season.
Maybe some of you guys can help me out with some land access where my kids could learn to hunt during the regular gun deer season the right way...by the adult, not special rules...where it's not a hazardous pumpkin patch...and they've got a decent chance of seeing deer...
I will appreciate you showing me the error of my ways and opening up your land or hunting areas to us. Maybe we can share more than just the gun deer season with you. We could stay with you too. The kids are spirited and tend to not sleep easily when they're excited. Non parents tend to find their chattering heartwarming. Especially on a deer stand.
I'll watch for the PM's to come rolling in.
That much said, my kids have only gone in the field or hunted with me during the regular seasons in the past for the simple reason that the public grounds nearby do not participate in the youth season. Like other guys I don't always draw a gun tag and the pumpkin army experience can be harrowing enough at places that do morning draws without worrying about my kids.
I made the argument before that instead of trying to shoehorn in extra gun days just make crossbow legal for kids so I could take them out whenever there was time and good weather. I got flamed extra crispy for that idea with comments like kids gotta learn the hard way and wait until could pull and shoot a legal bow.
Well my son made it and after some close misses killed his first deer with bow at age 12 a few years ago. My daughter wasn't strong enough and gave up as she got older. Now in her teen years and has absolutely no interest in hunting. Is that a good thing we kept her out?
Frankly the number of youth permits is tiny compared to regular season tags. The kids aren't wiping out the herd. If you are worried about populations, consider lobbying to curb DNR doe tag policies first.
Might someone abuse the system and shoot an extra buck "for his kid?" Yep. Already against the rules, too. So on the off chance that a couple dudes might break the wildlife code we should tell thousands of kids they are being punished for someone else's potential misdeeds? That's a great lesson in life to teach.
Or is it more of the old "someone might shoot my deer?" Funny but most of those guys hunt private land with fairly limited access. Unless of course they are really saying that "their deer" wander on the neighbor's place too where some dang kid who didn't "earn it" might shoot it.
As my kids would put it: ##stepping off soapbox
Last year was his first year hunting and he shot his first deer (actually a nice 9 point buck) with his 20 gauge.
He had a blast and now is hooked - became interested in bow hunting as a result, and this will be his first year for that as well.
BowMad23's Link
Could we start another special season for this ?
8^) ............ 8^) ...........8^)
Of course, that goes against the grain by adding another special interest season and it might mean you'd be shooting my kids' future deer, so I should be against it...I'm conflicted.
Highlife - Last year, the kids were too excited to sleep easily on the second night. Waking up was going to require a prompt.
I stepped outside to a perfectly still and eerily quiet pre-dawn dark. I told my buddy that with it being so still, there was no way that we'd get away with the crowd in the blind. That would be a recipe for getting busted and disappointed. He should take his hunting and I'd explain to mine when they awoke.
In spite of the restless night, mine woke up before daylight. The realization that we were left behind crushed them. There was no drama, they understood the reasoning, but the agonizing disappointment was both tough to look at and uplifting at the same time.
If some of these guys got a chance to spend half an hour with a kid that wasn't full of self-centered entitlement and attitude, but instead embracing each new step of their hunting journey, they might feel differently about the now three days that they have to don orange.
I look forward to the day when my kids will be able to hunt the regular bow season with me. And I will inwardly cheer and celebrate whe one of them sticks one of everybody else's deer...I wouldn't want to be a POS dad behaving like a POS hunting celebrity.
October .......... youth gun and hiTech archery gear for the entire month.
November ...... real stick and string archery gear only for the entire month
December .... shotgun ,muzzleloader ,handguns and crossbows for the entire month .
January ......... free for all killfest ....... kill em all !!! ........ use whatever you want .... from selfbows to hi power rifles
My personal experience, admittedly merely anecdotal, three youth seasons, three of four kids participating, one actually hunting, a total of one doe taken and a lot of fun, learning and anticipation of future hunts by all.
Not exactly a slaughterfest of epic proportions. From my viewpoint, you may be overstating the deleterious impact of the youth hunt.
Sure ........ golly gosh ..... since you are so certain deer are colorblind maybe you should lobby the dnr to make orange mandatory for the entire season . With modern arra slingers taken 50-60 yard shots at deer we would all be safer .... no ?
Am I being selfish ? ...... maybe ...... arent we all ?...... tell me one more time why you cant teach youth hunting during small game seasons ....... Or is deer season the only season for you .
Once more I will suggest that if a kid can make head shots on squirrels with a .22 single shot unassisted he most certainly can make a kill shot on a big ole deer .
But just because he shot a big ole deer after you had to help him get the gun on a rest and get it pointed at the deer that doesnt mean he could shoot a squirrel, rabbit, or anything else with a kill zone the size of a 50 cent piece . What exactly are we trying to teach ? Arent we putting the cart before the horse ?
just some thoughts ...... 8^)
I'm not shooting a deer for them. They're getting exposure watching an older friend of the family. Exposure to the deer hunt. I hope that they will eventually join me as deer and elk hunters.
I have nothing against squirrels, but the wife has proclaimed that she has eaten enough squirrel in her childhood and none are welcome in her fridge or freezer. So any squirrel killin' on our part needs to be immediately followed by some squirrel eatin'. I just don't feel right abandoning squirrels in the unlocked cars of fellow hunters like they were zucchini.
As to why you have to wear orange on your own property...I don't know, it is kind of stupid...I tend to travel at night a lot. Every time I am stopped at a red light at some rural intersection at three in the morning, where I can see no vehicles coming from any direction, I ask myself "WTF? Why am I sitting here like an automaton or a trained monkey? This is ridiculous."
My answer is; Because the one time that I would blow off the light in the wee hours of the morning or skip the blaze orange requirement on private property would be the moment when I'd cross paths with some Buford T Pusser "Walking Tall" wannabe with a big stick.
I started both my kids on squirrels with a .22 and my girl is lights out on them. She has also killed a turkey and 4 deer as well as a few dove with her .410. And yes, she killed the deer and turkey herself with no aiming help from me! Did she need a shooting stick? Yep - has a hard time holding up the gun. She LOVES to hunt with me and as I said earlier she has failed to draw a regular shotgun tag for the last 3 years. With all her sports, etc. I feel if I hadn't started her early she would likely have no interest at this point. Very few of her classmates do - thats for sure.
Things are different now than when I was a kid. I didn't have all the technology, smart phones, XBox, etc. and didn't have a sport to go to every day after school. All I had was the woods. Now they are incredibly "techie" and enrolled in every extracurricular activity known to man. I honestly feel if you don't hook them early you will lose them to some other interest. I didn't start bowhunting deer until the age of 12 - wait that long now and you very well may lose them.
At 11 my daughter has a long way to go to be able to draw a heavy enough bow to deer hunt - even though she wants to. A muzzleloader (very little kick) during youth season (a guaranteed tag) is the way to go to get/keep her hooked!
Just my .02.
Lee
Last I checked, there were about 271,000 total individual deer hunters in Illinois. Again, a long way from a million.
When I was a kid my dad taught me to squirrel hunt and then when I got old enough he taught me how to deer hunt. Two separate seasons, two separate sports in my book. Not that knowing how to do one doesn't benefit the other, but hunting in general is not a one size fits all. I've deer hunted all my life, that does me zero benefit in a duck blind or on a coon hunt.
Lee- you said your daughter had to use a shooting stick. I'm glad to hear it because so do I! Once I went to a scoped gun I find that I have to have it to shoot a deer that is any good distance away. Keep that daughter of yours in the woods, we need her!
You are absolutely right , thanks for pointing that out . What I should have said was I am all for the youth season as long as I am not being forced to participate while hunting on my own property.
and why dont we push to move it to the last weekend in september ........ then we'll all be happy
yes....absolutely
Do they have twice as much fun by not being limited to only half of the deer ??????
YES !!!!
That is why we got the law changed that put it in every gun county in IL AND made it either-sex, back in 2007.
But thanks for asking IL.Bowhunter......8^)
BTW...For you who were not on this forum back before the change in 2007, IL.bowhunter & VooDoo were here back then & they were crying their little hearts out, because they did NOT want the kids killing THEIR big buck......8^(
As you can see, they are STILL very very upset about it........oh well...........8^)
The great thing about muzzleloaders are you can use light loads, that will not punish a young kids shoulder.
We are also putting a Bushnell Banner scope on it. It has 6" eye relief, so he should not have any problem with tagging his eye, if he creeps up the stock some.
Wyatt, his buddy & my niece were all over here playing yesterday, so we got 22s & bb guns out and worked on their marksman skills & gun safety. We went through A LOT of bullets, so I HOPE that sheels is not out of 22s, so we can stock back up. Good times.....8^)
Its all my fault isnt it lynn ........ the big bad bogeyman just doesnt agree with you .
" Do they have twice as much fun by not being limited to only half of the deer ??????"
so is it your belief that 1/2 of the deer in Illinois are antlered bucks ? ............ hmmmmm .......... you must have a different management plan than most of us ........... could you tell us your secrets so I can have the same antlered buck to antlerless deer ratio on my farm ?
Have a nice youth season
Nobody !
I think some are trolling here and simply making stuff up and twisting things into whatever they are trying accomplish ?????
sad
Some of you are probably having a hard time "UNDERSTANDING", because you probably never took the hunter safety class yourself, correct ?????
BTW...I took the test when I was 11, just went to the class with my boy & have researchered it very throughly before taking my son there. Be Prepared....
Quick education on hunter safety class, so some might better comprehend = the hunter safety class booklet was written at a 6th grade reading level. The instructors are taught to always ask if anyone, ( NOT JUST THE KIDS ) would like help reading test. Then they will provide that person with a non-family member to read the test to him or her. The person taking the test then fills in what he or she thinks the correct answer is. Plain & simple !
Wyatt was 8 years old this spring when he took his test. And for you people who are keeping score at home, Wyatt got a 50 out of 50......8^)
See my son may not be a very good or fast reader, or speller yet BUT....he comprehends VERY VERY well !!! I am lucky he already "can remember what they are being taught"...8^)
He had also been legally hunting for one year, before he took the hunter safety class. He had an apprentice License last year. Wyatt also took the whole written part of the IL hunter safety class on line, for only practice. His mother & I sat on each side of him for the 2 day class & made sure he fully understood every aspect of hunter safety.
Anymore questions ?????
Oh ya, there were about 6-7 kids who asked for helpers to read the test to them in the class we attended. Since I was not taking the test, they asked me to read the test to one of the other kids. I gladly helped one young man. He did great too !!! He only missing 2 questions....8^)
Lynn W's Link
It went through both both ribs cages, both lungs & was just under the skin on opposite side.
The young hunter I took on the IL Dream hunt last year, also used this same load in my muzzleloader last year & double lunged a young deer and it went clean through. Very little kick.
This year Wyatt will probably step up to 60 gr of powder, using 2 30gr pellets of triple 7, in his new gun.
After that there is the 80 gr option of one 50gr pellet & one 30 gr pellet.
Then 90, with 3 30gr pellets.
I don't do loose powder for hunting anymore. Pellets are much easier, safer & more reliable for hunting AND deadly accurate !
Anyone is more then welcome to send me a PM, then I can also give you my ph#, if you want to talk more about anything at length.
======================================
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I grew up in Pa. and dad started us kids out by talking along with him on snake hunts back in the 1950. I was maybe 4 if that, and could not wait until 1965 for my 12th birthday.
12 was the "GOLDEN" age in Pa. at that time.
Back then I was given a basic written test when filling out my H/L app, and if one answer was wrong........ no H/L.
of course that was when we didnt have 3 add on special seasons tacked onto our bowseason.
Now if we could just convince most do gooders to stop "saving bowhunting" for all us peons we would be just fine . Hell , I just want someone to save us from the do gooders.
BUT if they also create a season to help educate kids about hunting, THAT is NOT needed ?, because you did not have it ?????
Sounds to me like some, are talking out of both sides of there mouth.
Notice how we have heard NO complaints about the youth turkey season nor the youth duck season, nor a youth deer season, as long as it is ANTLERLESS ONLY !!!!
?????
Yes, that is because it does not effect any of the ME ME ME crowd here, who only care about their big bucks !
ALSO what about us 'Dads' that give up their bowhunting for 2-3 days, to take Joey on the youth season ????
You won't see that out of the ME ME ME crowd. Because they don't even want to dawn a simple orange hat & vest, for a couple days during THEIR archery season, to help out 10,000 kids out.
I have absolutley no problem what so ever being in the 'do gooder' crowd. Been there my whole life. It is simply the way I was raised. It is also how we have & always will, raise both of our kids.
It is also how we will teach the 26 boys who just signed up tonight, to be in our cub scout pack. This was my first meeting as pack master. We had a great kick off meeting & are looking forward to another great year of scouting !!!!
I have to wrestle with the disturbing knowledge that my kids are putting undue pressure on the deer herd even though they've only observed and never killed or even badly frightened a deer.
In spite of not owning one single pair of camo tights or a cape, I may have been wrongly lumped in with the do-gooder category. I've tended to feel somewhat guilty that I don't have more time to actually do some good with kids other than my own and my friend's.
And now, apparently, in spite of my not knowing that bowhunting needed saving, I need to stop. I should aspire to be a do-badder!
Do I have to shoot those unpopular broadheads? Can't I just be a smart-alec?
IL.Bowhunter-You are absolutely right, October does not teach kids how to follow basic safety rules. Teaching comes from a combination of many things: hunter safety classes, observation, parental/mentor guidance and example, experience, etc. Kids CAN get experience in October. None of us are ever to old practice, and learn, quality hunter safety and sportsmanship.
Thats one reason why the regular deer season is at the time of year it is, so hunters can see and know what is beyond the target.
As an adult you should have known that.
As far as October being a bad time to gun hunt due to not being able to see what is beyond the target - that holds zero water. How many southern states hold RIFLE seasons in August, Sept. Oct. when the leaves are far from falling? Last time I checked a "bean field" rifle shoots a heck of a lot farther than a shotgun, or even most muzzleloaders and they don't have people getting shot all over the place! Hell, South Carolina's been shooting deer with a rifle since August 15 and there aren't dead hunters littering the woods!
What about how dishonest all those selfish dads are for just taking their kids hunting so they can kill a buck? Personally, I wouldn't do it - would some? Probably (and bet those same dads are just as dishonest in bow season and regular gun season). Does that mean we should kill youth season? Thats like telling me I can't drive because I might speed!Same analogy.
How about the "We are having too many deer killed already" arguement? Kind of flies in the face of "let them kill does" as last time I checked the does were the reproductive part of the herd. Come to think of it, in all my years spent in the woods I have never seen a buck drop a fawn! If you are concerned about the numbers pass the does and let them kill a buck. Personally, I told my daughter to shoot whatever she wanted as it was her hunt. Three does and one buck later she is still happy to shoot the first deer that gives her a good, clean, shot.
Last observation - "Every reason, for youth season, that has been written on here, can be done during regular gun season". If that were completely true our state would have to go to straight over the counter gun tags as the current draw system IL uses denies hunter opportunity - just ask my 2 kids. No tag drawn for my daughter for the last 3 years running and none for my boy who will hunt for the first time this year (at least deer hunt for the first time)! I don't want to see OTC tags any more than most but the youth season at least guarantees them a few days in the woods to hang out with their POS dad and "gasp" possibly have a crack at a buck!
Lee
P.S. They actually have to go scout with me too as they know if they don't help they don't go - I am not raising executioners!
ILBowhunter, you are correct,I've never given a thought to the background of anything that I've ever shot at during practice or in the field. Guess that makes me an idiot. Really? So by your logic, I don't need to worry about background when the leaves are on because I can't SEE it? I suppose I've been stupid for teaching my kids to ALWAYS check the background when they point a gun. BTW, identifying your background was one of the main things stressed at the hunter safety course I took with my kids took last year. Also, there is a specific reason that the gun season is held when it is, do you know what the reason is?
Bentstick-my point was to prove you wrong by saying that the youth season "is so that dads can hunt the regular gun season and not have to take their kids out at that time". Maybe there are some dads who don't want to mess with their kids in November, but my POINT was that I am not one of them, and I would bet that most bowhunters who have kids are just like me and you. If you didn't like this topic being started on Bowsite, you should have ignored it and went about your business.
My main POINT is that I don't see one thing wrong with the youth season. Yes, I could ignore the youth season and take my kids only during regular season, but by golly I don't see a thing wrong with doing both.
And encourage my kids to do the same some time in the future.
I'm just like that. I can't help myself. ;>)
Have a question for you.
Do you know the season why congress has it's adjournments?
This is the best one yet, by far !!!!
Guess what Bentstick81.....we ALREADY DO HAVE YOUTH DRIVING PERMITS !!!!.....LOL
We HAVE had them for DECADES, in this very state !!!
Some of you people are so out of touch with the real world today, it is mind boggling ???????
Youth driving permits require kids to be with a instructor/parent/Guardian/adult/ ect..., they have to have 50 hours behind the wheel with an qualified adult ( at least 10 of these hours at night ) before, they can even take their actual drivers test.
See this is how kids learn the best, with one on one adult supervision, PERIOD. Just like all IL youth seasons !!!
Guys this is the year 2013. Let me say that AGAIN....2013
This isn't the 50's or 60's or 70's, or any other decade.
Lets get our head out of the sand, wake up to reality & accept that properly teaching our kids about this complicated world, is of the UTMOST IMPORTANCE !!!!!
We now live in the time when 50% of the people expect some type of hand out.
Todays youth is being schooled on how they can stay dependant on their parents, so they can avoid the complicated world.
You are 100% correct, youth need mentors !!!!
They need to have someone there, sitting beside them instructing them on when & how best to do things. Kids can tag along with Dad & watch all they want, BUT..... NOTHING teaches anyone better, then doing something for yourself !!!
Hands on experience..... that is when the real learning begins !!!
You can sit at home & watch hunting videos all day long....but that ain't hunting.
You can tag along with someone on umpteen hunts......but you ain't really hunting.
Only when that weapon is in YOUR hands & YOU make that kill, is it finally hunting !
Having someone there to help & observe what you are doing right, AND what you are doing wrong, then let you know right then & there, so you do NOT start any bad habits, is crucial !!!
THANKS for weighing in on this important subject Herm !!!........8^)
And thats all they need to know ....... they will all grow up to be experienced outdoorsmen and outdoorsgals that will all know all the cool new catch phrases .
They will all " get it done " on "the last evening(or morning) of the hunt" and they will just "love it when a plan comes together "
Now lets all look at the camera and punch the air 4 times and hold our gun or bow over are heads in a victory dance while giving a big thumbs up .......... whew ! ......... we should all feel better , we have successfully defended our youth season for another year .
It seems there have been enough either-sex firearm and muzzleloader permits to get through both lotteries and into the random daily draw period for several years.
There have also been hundreds of antlerless only permits sold over-the-counter, well into the hunting season, in recent years. Why did you not get one of those and go hunting?
The question was part of a American history lesson we had in Jr High school, back in the 60's.
Spring for planting, Fall for harvesting.
Kids are being pushed into sports by their parents at younger and younger ages....... don't want to get into the reasons why parents are pushing so hard because it's not good.
Maybe the youth hunting season is going down that same path.
what if we lived in Alaska and were talking about a youth season ........ would you feel OK about pointing your 7 year old child who cannot hold the weight of a hi power weapon at a kodiak bear and let the child pull the trigger ? ............. if not why ? ........ you claim these kids are ready and have been trained to deliver consistent kill shots with a hi power weapon on a live animal.
I am also still working on the math that was quoted to say that adding antlered deer to this essential learning weekend will effectively double the opportunities for our eager students of the art of killing deer .
Gee .......... I got A's in college in calculus and physics and I cant seem to work that problem out and get the same answer .
one last comment ...... Herm ...... your post ........ "Hunting, and especially Bow Hunting has turned into a FIASCO!....something that I am very ashamed of! It seems many are 'hunting' for the wrong reason! (jmho)............ was spot on ........ truer words have never been posted .
Our "future hunters" can turn this around....for themselves and those that follow. BUT, we as 'mentors' and 'parents' have to care....and to teach.....the last 15 years "WE" have all but destroyed our quality deer herd in Illinois. DNR and politics let MONEY run the DNR and TAG sales, all at the cost of a depleted healthy MATURE deer herd here in Illinois.
Take "kids"....teach them RIGHT from wrong....instill in them MORALITY.....Respect......and compassion! Only 'they' can turn Illinois back into something to be proud of!!!!! (jmho)
Thanks , I agree 100% with your opinion on this .
so if few children could hold ,aim and shoot a hi powered rifle even with assistance ............ why are we expecting them to be able to do the same with a slug gun or a muzzleloader ( both of which in todays world are comparable to many hi power rifle cartridges )........ you are right , a kodiak bear could easily kill them , and a deer probably wont ........ so does that make it OK to send a child that by your own words are not ready to a deer stand with a powerful weapon ? .
Your response is the exact reason why we need to have a minimum age before we let a child pick up a hi power weapon to kill something with it . A .22 or a .410 shotgun are light years away from a modern sabot slug gun or muzzleloader. After all we dont let kids drive until they are 16, but we think its ok for them to kill things with a powerful sabot slug gun when they are 7 or 8 ??????
Ya know what ...... during the first 2 years of this youth season thing I let a couple of friends bring their kids to my farm . There were several shots taken . There were no deer taken . Something tells me that not all those shots were complete misses . .............. so I guess the final word is its OK to miss or wound a deer but not a good idea if the quarry has teeth and claws.. ....... what are we really teaching ?????
As far as an age limit? I wouldn't be opposed to setting it at 10, but not all kids are the same. I feel like I have used good judgement regarding my own kids, but I have been deer hunting since I was 11 myself. Some kids that participate in the youth season might not have a parent that has any hands on experience who could provide the proper judgement.
Know one hates to wound a deer more than me. A clean miss is ALWAYS better than a wounded animal. This is what I teach my kids. It's ridiculous to compare deer hunting and bear hunting, whether it's an adult doing or a kid. There is an inherent risk to bear hunting that does not exist with deer hunting. Tell you what, I'll stick to deer hunting with my kids. If you feel like teaching some different kind of lessons regarding herivores and omnivores you go right ahead.
or does your example only apply to the act of killing a deer ???
72 ...... "A clean miss is ALWAYS better than a wounded animal. This is what I teach my kids"......... so how do you teach them how to decide when to make a clean miss ?
No matter if its bambi or Griz ....... a wounded animal is a wounded animal and if the child cant handle the weapon on his own power he shouldnt be shooting at a live animal.The decision and the responsibility for the wounded animal is on the teacher not the child. And you just taught the kid his first wrong lesson ........ its OK to shoot at an animal that is outside of your skill level........ its no different than telling yourself its OK to take a 60 yard hail mary shot with your bow because "that buck was too big to not try a shot "
I would say that more hikers get attached by grizzly bear each year, then what hunters do under hunting condition.
See some are now suggesting we take hunting from our kids ?????????
I bet PETA would be all about that too !
PATHETIC.......jmho !
Shill ALERT !
Honestly, I think some of you people need to put the crack pipe down and use a little common sense. If you have kids teach them to be good sportsman and to respect their sport and the animals they hunt. That's the best any of us can do.
IL.Bowhunter, I am 38. How old are you? The more relevant question is do you have kids? How about voodoo, I wonder if he has kids?
Your comment about the ants is funny . Using that logic in reverse maybe children should start out with the big animals like moose or kodiak bears .....LOL ... bigger kill zones mean fewer misses ..... no ?????
perhaps 3 or 4 more years and several hundred rounds of .22 and tin cans are in order ? A sad fact is that many adult hunters dont have the shooting skills appropriate for shooting at live animals either . Perhaps a few hundred more tin cans would have helped them as well.
ALL this goes back to one of my original comments that sometimes its not all about the kids .
Not that its any of your business but my son was killed before he was old enough to go deer hunting . But I can assure you he would have been started on small game until he had proved to ME that he was ready to move up.Not just because he wanted to be a deer hunter just like dad.
The middle east is going the s*%t, radical Muslims want to kill America, and bow season is less than a month away.
Lets focus here.....
I have been speaking of my opinions about youth seasons and child hunters IN GENERAL .
As I said on another post I have opened my farm to two different guys that I know personally for the youth hunt . Several shots were taken ...... all supposed complete misses .............. Those kids WERE NOT READY TO HUNT DEER ............ bottom line . And their dads should have known it , in fact I believe they did know it .
I would bet my farm that the vast majority of 8-14 year old kids are not ready to hunt deer . And yes to answer an earlier question about wounding I do believe it is much better to wound a few squirrels than to wound and lose one deer .
I am not trying to say that YOUR kids are not ready . They very well may be. You guys are likely more active in deer hunting and teaching your kids than the average gun hunter . But MOST youth hunt mentors are not as dedicated to hunting as people on this forum. Many gun hunters spend only 3-4 days a year in the field . They are not qualified to be a mentor.
Yes, my comment about ants was quite stupid, but I was just using your very own logic.
My son has proved to ME that not only is he ready to hunt deer, but that he is very capable. His aim is better than mine and I am proud of that.
You are absolutely correct that the death of your son is NONE of my business. Differences aside, I do offer you my condolences.
Your generation grew up and was schooled under the "No person left-behind programs.
Now it's more clear why the big push for kids starting hunting at such younger ages.... it's because no one wants his/her kid left standing at the back of the line.
IL.Bowhunter-my wife is a teacher so I'm familiar with the No Child Left Behind Act. It was instituted 1/3/2001. That's roughly 20 years AFTER I graduated from high school, and 5 years after I joined the workforce in my current profession. So no, I was not brought up and schooled under that stupid government program.
My dad is 6 years older than you. He is a lifetime bow hunter and will fill his tags this year I'm sure. He has also had a big hand in the development of my kids hunting progress. He will be thrilled if it works out for him to sit a stand with one of my kids this youth season. He has a very different take on the youth season than you and some of the other people on here. He started taking me and my brothers to the woods with him when I was 9. I hunted for the first time on my own during the gun season of 1986 at age 11. Not much has changed for my family.
For your information, my last name starts with a "W". I got used to standing in the back of the line in kindergarten. My kids did too.
When growing up girl up the road from us was in "Special Educations" until she became Jr. high age, then she was main streamed.
Would you like to talk more about ignorance..!
Like I sad.....pathetic
The girl i was talking about is setting very well these days, and has for many years now. She learn thing the hard way.
I'm going to just continue to do my best by my kids as I see fit. I'm going to hunt ethically and legally my way.
If the herd in the area where my buddy owns his land is down, I won't take an extra doe for the freezer. I'll toss the tag. If the numbers of deer are higher, I'll fill the tag.
I just muddle my way through life doing the best I can with the values that I have and I'm trying to instill them in my kids.
Though my kids are not yet at the point where they are hunting, I very much enjoy having them participate in the youth hunt weekend "hunting camp". I think our approach bodes well for them, their attitude and their respect for the animals and the hunt. When I feel confident in their abilities, regardless of age, they will earn their privilege to hunt. I will make that decision because I am responsible for them, not some bureaucrat.
I don't think the impact on the deer herd of several thousand kids hunting two or three days compares to the numbers of regular bow and gun hunters.
I suspect that any parent that would use their kid as a shill to poach a deer would be inclined to poach the same deer outside of the youth season. I don't think that something that I see as beneficial should be ended because of what some jerk might do.
In my mind, I think that my approach is reasonable and proper. I find the histrionics and purse-swinging humorous.
My one request is that if you feel inclined to disparage me, please be colorful, thorough and original. It makes for better reading.
LOL .......... gotta love it ....... BTW ..... is it possible to make unfounded accusations about the motives of the folks that are against having a special youth season during bow season ? .....or are they automatically evil and wrong .......hmmmmm ........ just checking
Lee
Are you looking to make some sort of confession about the broadhead you shoot?
Perhaps you are evil...
"Please allow me to introduce myself . I'm a man of wealth and taste "
Rolling Stones
8^)
give me antlerless only during the last weekend in september and I'll join .
If the youth hunt was two weeks earlier, I'd just use it as a carrot to entice good behavior and I'd take them out of school an extra day. And maybe sweat a little more in our "blind" or "stand".
And this POS selfish dad could focus on my uninterrupted bow season!
"Mama, put my guns in the ground, I can't shoot them any more..." You can call him Zimmy, but you gotta serve someone.
So this guy said "no" with his own kid.
As far as killing a buck - We have yet to see one in youth season! It has been hot, except for last season, and the bucks didn't seem to be moving - she was just as excited with her does.
I guess it all comes down to it that we all have different views. I like it, some don't. Some kids are ready, some aren't. I will keep taking them as long as they want to go - I will not make them.
Good luck to all those youth hunters,
Lee
P.s. I am sorry to read that your son died, voodoo - take care.
